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Prediction on Gen 5 Metagame

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by JSND, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. JSND

    JSND

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    This is a speculation i made on gen 5 metagame shape and core
    Well to make it simpler to read i will make this post with some important subject that i think will shape the metagame or the "core of the metagame
    Without further word lets start:

    -Weather
    1. Summoner
    Alright weather is the hot topic in this metagame with the rise of drizzlelitoed and Droughttales. And many weather abuser to boot such as Solarzard and Chlorosaur. So, you think they will take sandstorm place as the most dominant weather ? nope. Sandstorm dominates the metagame. Also hail still loses to sandstorm. The prime reason is same as gen 4. The summoner factor. Drizzlelitoed and Droughttales might be nice being an attacker but not on par with Tyranitar and Hippowdon, which is a complete beast.Ttar is known by many as "ghostbane" and with Sazandra with shadow tag and Sky high 145 base special around, dont expect Ttar to lose its immense power Threat it held back in 4th gen. And Hippowdon still has everything to wall and with multitude of new physical threads, his walling capability will not go into waste. This concludes the weather summoner factor

    2.Abuser
    Lets talk about weather abuser we all know and love first. Kingdra the mighty Dragon. Its new ability damp is nice but pales in comparison to swift swim so im taking a gen 4 kingdra scenario. This is the biggest reason why Rain will stands to Sandstorm. The rain has best abuser around so its the best having abuser like ludicollo Kabutops and the now crazilly buffed water types in general especially the great buff of Zapdos and a slight bad retyping thet they did to rotom apliances.
    Or so i say... This gen makes sandstorm looks like a total beast. Doryuzuu
    for example while not bulky has the new ability sand throw which is swift swin of sandstorm, the thing were all waiting for. Its also has a monstrous 135 base attack and 88 base speed faster than kingdra. The new legendary pokemon Randorosu also have sand strength which increase power of sandstrom affiliated move and acceptable 125/115/101
    Stats. Yeah yet another trolly 101 base speed. But his another ability is encourage making it might be used as sandstorm non abuser abuser.
    Then theres gigaiasu the other sand Strength abuser but having 1 new niche. Stealth Rock. It has rock typing. It is quite bulky. It has monstrous attack and explosion. And with many nice rock type and not to mention that all rock type is sandstrom abuser.There rain and sand dominate the weather section but sandstorm beats rain once again in the end.
    Sunny day will lose IMO since the new abuser like Venusaur(well venusaur did have growth and sword dance Petal dance "outrage") Charizard loses in term of power to the rain or sand abuser while it have high power abuser like heatran,Tangrowth etc Their conflicting element(heatran excluded) is not favored(they did weaken water though) and their rotom-A lost to Tyranitar (harder though they now neutral to pursuit)
    If not for the water saviour sand might shape gen 5 metagame but it be a weather war since all three has a big buff waiting to use.

    -Weather Conclusion
    Same as gen 4 since sandstorm buff is so immense but the new summoner will make the weather war more intense. I predict a team of Lead(probably gigaiasu),Ttar,Doryuzuu,Randorosu,2 Filler to be nice in this metagame of gen 5.

    -Playstyle
    This will be covered in one huge topic. While gen 4 has monstrous offense, its safe to say that theres a balance among offense stall and balance.But will gen 5 still be that way ? we all know that gen 5 offense is downright brutal. Ononokusu with 97 base outspeed many and 147!!!!!! base attack. Its not overhyped as rampardos. its very powerful in true senses. Oh it has taunt. Then theres Sazando the Darkness Dragon. ohhh so bulky so mixed so troll speed (97+1) and more importantly Stab pursuit for a dragon. Then there many set up move that is so overkill hmm shell break(sharply increase attack speed Defense in cost of special defense) Cheer up increase attack and special attack) Claw Sharpen(increase attack and accuracy) and the special dragon dance. heck there even a pokemon with low special attack stats that set up with leaf storm.And Sazandra has reasonable bulk and taunt and shadow tag making it a semi set up machine.But offense will not dominate completely. The absence of tm 76 stealth rock didnt hinders stall and offense since many pokemon learn stealth rock anyway. Ttar ? yeah Gigaiasu ? argh. Gen 4 transfer.....so yeah
    Hazard might still running around but the interesting point is the new bulky dragon shuffler. Yeah you heard me right. Bulky Dragon Epic Shuffler. Dragon Tail is an attack(no taunt) that deals nice damage (90 after STAB) and shuffles like roar making a stall is a greater force. Beware of the brutality of gen 5 though. Defog kills hazard now making the Anti Stall Gliscor more stall breaking. Then theres sturdy. This means gen 5 metagame is a "mixed bag" since it really has monstrous buff on all side

    -Dominating element
    Okay this time i will tell you straight off. Dragon this gen is immense. Grass is buffed. Ghost is buffed even without rotom A. And Steel is dead(seriously Sazandra is the one to blame if not for the new epic sturdy). Its just dragon will meta the gen 5 ? never. Water i say. The advent of simon googles will make water pierce the heavens and creates the universe!!! i mean metagame and i mean swimming googles(lol). This gen buff acuraccy and what type need acuraccy the most until now ? Water. Gen 5 buff water till it broke a lot. A banded feraligatr without equpping choice band ? It dont get dragon dance. no worry it get googles. The googles champion is probably not feral. Imagine suicune with this equipped. Answer: complete beast. Then theres starmie using this making an even more beast of checking(gosh when will starmie leave OU ?) Gen 5 is definitely a heaven for water types if this item effect is nice. If the boost is only 1,1, its equivalent of a + nature making Adamant +1 Gyarados outspeeding many threats and having more accurate moves for example. In ability term all eyes goes to swampert the champion of bulky water. The mixpert is now outdated instead its now named Dampert. No exploding on swampert can spell doom in many situation. Then theres Boiling water which further compliment water's bulkiness. Also seeing now Rotom Water is arguably the Best apliance due to googles and typing Grass will be used alongside water to deal with it or take an advantage of it. The meta might be water based unlike gen 4 coughdragonsteelmencetiascough but its also possible that dragon will rise to wall combat water type creating my core theory water dragon metagame.

    -Unsuspected Pokemon
    Mixed grass types due to Growth buff. Also due to icicle spear buff, bulky cloyster with band or life orb(and it as a bonus get shell break) and icicle spear(37 x 5 =185 more crazy than outrage) might be used for a sweep. And it can wear googles too. It also been able to abuse both rain and hail. Then there sableye with his might be priority will-o-Wisp and toxic. The volt absorb Zapdos might create GyaraDos(pun intended)combo
    but it miss 1 crucial point(earthquake bait)
    This meta is still new so many sets wil arise.

    -Entry Hazard
    (this thing needs more info i need the defog buff info so it will be posted later)

    -Conclusion
    The metagame of gen 5 is a new one. But the brutality is like the uber of gen 4 where every pokemon can sweep a whole team alone but because of the many buff in this gen we cant predict the exaxct metagame that this gen has to offer but the addition that this gen has will surely make the gen 5 metagame a blast and a big experience to the metagamers of this gen.

  2. HART4FLOON

    HART4FLOON

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    My prediction:
    Ditto Domination
  3. dtjoe

    dtjoe

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    I can hope ditto revenge sounds suitable for its current habit of sucking and dying
  4. JSND

    JSND

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    Ditto can speed tie against garchomp yeah nice !!!!
    But ditto cant revenge many yeah many important priority using pokemon.
    Prediction on core team :
    Lead/Water 1/Starmie/Put a Dragon Here/Grass/Rotom Apliances Water
    or put some Shazando to kill steels
    If it is water metagame
    if it is Dragon Metagame
    Lead/Dragon/Shazando or Magnezone/Dragon/Dragon/Filler
  5. A2ZOMG

    A2ZOMG

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    This game looks like it will cycle through three dominating strategies, stall, stallbreaking, and revenge killing imo. Only to a much greater degree than in DPPtHGSS, due to how momentum oriented Black and White looks like it's going to be, and due to how decisively some Pokemon can really fuck each other up.

    Revenge killing is the obvious one with Pokemon like Ditto and Shanderra. The threat of Choice Scarf Ditto alone is going to encourage stall as a safer way to scout for it and then check it, and Ditto WILL be on every team due to how reliably he can threaten someone who is trying to set up a sweep (which is definitely feasible due to how insane offense potential is in this game). And then you have all the Pokemon with ridiculous as fuck offense that will be there to break stall, but will usually be saved for later in case Choice Scarf Ditto does something gay.

    I personally don't think weather is nearly as big of a deal as it looks. It's merely an extra thing on the side there to enhance offensive strategies, but I think weather will at least be more balanced in this game.
  6. Pyritie

    Pyritie

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    If it's holding a scarf and uses the transformed pokemon's priority move, sure it can.
  7. A2ZOMG

    A2ZOMG

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    Keep in mind most Pokemon resist their own priority moves. Specifically Ice, Dark, Steel, and Water, and in Lucario's case Extremespeed. Are there any Ghosts that really like Shadow Sneak besides Giratina O? Either way Priority moves aren't really a huge concern for Ditto when revenge killing.
  8. JSND

    JSND

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    Take Kabutops Aqua Jet for example
    Ditto base HP is nothing to write home about IMO.
  9. A2ZOMG

    A2ZOMG

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    It's worth knowing that Ditto is probably going to have more HP than the standard Kabutops.
  10. JSND

    JSND

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    yeah its hard to decide. but this strategy can be used
    Alakazam is copyed and KO by ditto. Switch in Ttar(maybe) then pursuit
    Then handle the switch in. Finally Sweep !!!!
    Hard but quite effective
  11. Tomaius

    Tomaius

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    My prediction is we won't be seeing that many dream world pokemon until Nintendo decides to release them which could be a while. The metagame focus should be on the confirmed pkmn not ones which we can't obtain yet.
  12. TacoBot

    TacoBot

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    mestillthinks that running SD Scizor or alternatively if you're nuts, an SD Scizor that has no Fighting move, then pair with Magnezone. SD once, shoot down something, then when he brings in Ditto, go to Magnezone and rape it. Extra points if Scizor sweeps after that (without a Fighting move).
  13. JSND

    JSND

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    agree a lot. And by that the water type and sand storm speculation i made is really support that since the core of these thing such as gigaiasu randorosu using sand power doryuzuu and swimming googles and obviously the water types is confirmed already and the obvious rotom-Water types aka the bane of water types metagame which i predicted is obviously confirmed and existed
  14. Aurabreloom

    Aurabreloom

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    this
    I'd say ditto's the most radical change this gen
    plus the fact that you're no longer countering ditto per se. the only advantage you have is that you know it (since it's one of your pokes).

    although i agree that dream world pokes will likely be withheld
  15. JSND

    JSND

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    im waiting that GF gave Jarudo (speculating the Preversity effect to be nice) more special move. Leaf Storm+HP+1 decent coverage is nice and 1 support move will kill a lot
    especially considering that it has many nice option to use(Glare,Subsitute on Rotom)
    and it has reasonable bulk and speed(neutral max EV outspeed even non Scarf Garchomp)
  16. Hex

    Hex

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    OP, I really think you're underestimating sunny day teams, you seem to only list venusaur and charizard as sunny day attackers which is just strange. Tangrowth is a beast in the sun, and as a solar beamer specs Heatran definitely outdoes charizard. Sunflora is my favorite sunny day poke because you can trick room it into having unstoppable power with choice specs with solar power. There is also the new bug/grass poke with acceptable stats that gets chlorophyll as an ability.
    Furthermore, OP, your knowledge of rain teams is also lacking. You only really talked about kingdra, but dry skin pokes and the huge amount of rain dish pokes added through dream world. I do agree that rain teams will pale against sand streams because thunder is often used in rain teams which opens a lot of switch in opportunities, but sunny day's ability to make grass types actually good will make if viable because solar beam heatran and other powerful grass attackers will hit waters sans kingdra and ground types for super effective damage.
  17. un?lucky

    un?lucky

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    While I agree the power of the 5 gen pokemon seems quite abit larger in theory than 4th gen's pokemon, if the initial start happens with no ban's its not out of the question to see once uber defensive pokemon such as deoxy's D and Ho oh actually being quite viable with all these powerhouse pokemon running around. Remeber that a vauge definition of an uber defensive pokemon is one that can wall a significant portion of the metagame. With a large enough power creep I can see some of the past ubers being quite good and not broken addition to stall teams.

    Other thing with the 5th gen I see is that abilities play a huge part of the preformance of a pokemon. Most *good* pokemon seem to have at least one usuable and effective ability compared to that of the 4th gen pokemon which could often go by with a useless ability and not be affected that badly. Id go as far to say that abilities could make more of an impact to the 5th gen's meta than hard stats.
  18. JSND

    JSND

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    Oh im sorry since the description i make is total lacking. In fact i dont consider them to be weak and underestimate them i say theyre extremely nice being a fan of weather teams myself will edit them later.
    Ok first i only put kingdra since i want to explain the sand first so yeah ill edit them later. Why i only put zard and venus ? well i must edit them to say that they are the new notable abuser while venusaur is definitely the only one with better niche and superior one. Will edit later to put all notable abuser which i might lack(the butterfly dancer). thx. About solarbeam . Solarbeam is so risky and while not useless 1 switch and your nearly done for especially considering Droughtales lack of bulk and typing compared to say Tta making weathering harder.
    Another reason for Kingdra mention is the fact that it really blend well in gen 5 speculated water metagame(in fact i predict water dragon ghost) also its buff is a nigh sky high level due to simon googles.
    Heatran really lack speed so i dont put it(sound rather gimmicky in the brutal meta). Other set, i might check later. Thanks for the advice
  19. JSND

    JSND

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    i say it too in the analysis though not straight. i mean thats why i mention rotom and weather summoner. Especialy considering the sableye HUGE buff
    its a total blast. Agree on this
  20. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    You completely ignore Kyogre and Groudon, which both still exist and will be far, far more dominant. Even assuming they don't, CAP did extensive testing in Gen 4 with "auto rain" and found the effects of even allowing a Pokemon that was competitively worthless except for Drizzle had drastic metagame changes.

    I think you really misunderstand why Sand was common in DP. It had little to do with its strength as a weather effect. That was only really used on stall teams, and Hippowdon was quickly falling out of favor after Platinum. It really was just because Tyranitar is such a great Pokemon overall. The Sand was a nice bonus for offense but by no means the primary reason to run a Tyranitar.

    Rain and Sun are different though because their effects are so much more dramatic and pronounced. Stats double and moves get more powerful, which doesn't happen with Sand. Without a knowledge of Gen 5 mechanics, there's a lot to think about with these auto weather Pokemon, considering stuff like Kingdra could become viable in Gen 4 Ubers with it.

    ----------

    Overall I would say your "prediction" isn't particularly well thought out or coherent, and I don't really have time to go point by point here.
  21. JSND

    JSND

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    Sorry i might make uber review later so please wait a bit. Thats why i dont cover Ubers. About SS i know that SS is used on stall for residual damage but i also know Ttar reason to use is Metagame counter and as ghostbane
    since i use it a lot. The fact that Ttar is overall nice is why i say Sand is the best here since there are really no reason to use Drizzlelitoed and Droughttales other than for weather but Ttar is nice so it is used. yes the auto rain will be immense and my prediction is so stupid and far from perfect(especially considering im not a great player). Its just a speculation after all. But i must admit that sandstorm buff is greater. Sand Power and Sand Throw is a top notch ability and unlike rain their power is not greatly taken with other weather condition taking places.
    (something we all have experienced when using water move in the sun)
    Yes the rain and sun is more dramatic but losing it is even more dramatic.
    Sand is more risky but we dont know the meta shape after all about how will we use the weather summoner and such. The metagame is unpredictable after all.
  22. Acid Xygnus

    Acid Xygnus

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    Ugh, the grammar in the OP makes it nearly unreadable... And the fact that it looks like it was written by a 12 year old doesn't help much either. Other thing is that you don't seem to show much knowledge about the moves Pokemon get. Example, Sazando doesn't get a lot of stat up moves, only Cheer Up if I'm not mistaken. And sadly, it doesn't seem like it gets Pursuit.

    Overall, this gen will be a lot more offensive. I don't see many tanks or walls coming out of Black and White. Only Pokemon with insane amounts of Attack and Sp. Attack. Chances are we won't get many chances to setup entry hazards as well.
  23. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    There are no Ubers in Gen 5 at this time. Every Pokemon is in the Standard metagame until they are banned, which none of them have been.

    Tyranitar is not used as "metagame counter [sic]". Firstly, Pokemon that exist purely to counter are not useful Pokemon. Secondly, Tyranitar is useful in its own right regardless of what Pokemon it beats. People don't use Tyranitar because they need an xyz counter, but rather because Tyranitar is a solid attacker and it handles Pokemon XYZ. If you battle with the scope of a team exisitng to counter everything and work only on the merits of that rather than balancing metagame responses with a general team structure, you will not do well in a metagame with over 600 Pokemon.
  24. JSND

    JSND

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    Shazando have taunt and will o Wisp and reasonable bulk to make it "semi less superior" wobuffet(its gimicky and i cant test it as of now)
    that combo can force physical attacker escape and things like blissey switch out giving a set up opportunity. But true my knowledge on new moves is quite lacking i must say so. And offense will dominate if not for gen 5 quite significant buff on stall(bulky boiling water for example)
  25. animenagai

    animenagai
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    A lot of pokes hit really hard, and no, these aren't just base 600's. I think I saw 5 base 580's on serebii all with a speed stat over 100 and either an attack or sp.atk stat of over 115. It's gonna be fast.

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