1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Prediction on Gen 5 Metagame

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by JSND, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. JSND

    JSND

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    951
    Ok thanks for the info. The metagame counter is a really wrong silly me.
    I forgot to mention that its being both useful,powerful,and great counter to many threats all in one after all!!! thanks for the info argh i really need a lot of knowledge of the metagame.
    Yeah pokemon that only counter one thing is bad. I forget that one too
  2. megamonk4

    megamonk4

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    648
    I notice one terrible mistake for the first post. Closyter(Shellder, actually, XD) does get Shell Crack(or Break, your preference). Quite a few others get Shell Crack too. Besides the new turtle Fossil, Omastar, Magcargo, Torkoal, Clamperl(ownage for Huntail and Gorebyss), and the hermit crab(New Bug/Rock type).
  3. JSND

    JSND

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    951
    i didnt know that!!!!! Woohooo!!!!!! thanks a lot man !!!!! ive been searching for that all day long !!
  4. Arikado

    Arikado What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,208
    My speculation:
    Lots of offensive teams and weather teams, Ononokuruso will be in every damn offensive team or it's not gonna be an offensive team.
  5. JSND

    JSND

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    951
    yeah ononokusu is quite bulky and 97 base speed is not all that bad
  6. megamonk4

    megamonk4

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    648
    No Problem. I'm glad I could help, :D.

    Haha, and if it's TR, then it'll be the other pure dragon type, XD.
  7. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,658
    Guys, Garchomp and Salamence are bulkier, faster and better-typed than Ononokusu and the power difference is pretty insignificant.
  8. revdjweb

    revdjweb

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    48
    if ononokusu can reasonably weather the hereto underpowered but mandatory ice beam/shard attacks that so many other pokemon pack specifically to deal with dragons then the mold breaker variant is going to be everywhere.
    if not it will fall back and become a nice niche dragon like flygon/kingdra.
  9. Arch

    Arch

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,174
    Guys, Ononokusu isn't scared of priority Ice Shards or generally always getting OHKO'ed by Ice Attacks constantly, stronger, and the bulk difference between him and Mence + Chomp is pretty insignificant.
  10. CRASHiC

    CRASHiC

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    287
    I think teams that focus entirely on weather abuse will be outclassed by otherwise well rounded teams. There are simply too many top level threats now a days for me to think that weather would be the end all of end all.

    Though everyone hypes the power of offensive rainstorm teams, defensive rain dance seems just as potent.

    Psychic will do considerably better this generation than the previous 3. Magic Guard Alakazam will become a standard.

    Starmie will become the best lead (though its an anti-lead haha) but might fall out of favor for leads designed to come in and kick ass right away and take momentum, I see this as the future of leads.

    Entry hazards are in a tricky place. They will either increase to deal with some of the top level threats that it could check, or it will become less prominent. I can say for almost certain though that most anti-leads will disappear.

    Assuming Dream World Abilities are passable, Dragonite will def. have a niche to itself with increased bulk thanks to reduced stealth rock damage (dream world ability lowers damage it takes at 100percent), roost, and the change in Extreme Speed Priority, meaning that it won't be so frequently destroyed by priority revenge killers unlike its brethren. I imagine that Dragonite will become a frequent user on stall teams.

    Blissey's going down in usage. The new Psychic Shock will allow special sweepers a way to deal with her with ease. Special attacks in general will increase in usage.

    Stall will change dramatically, now more resembling bulky offense at times, constantly keeping the pressure on their opponent.

    Quick pursuiters will go up in usage to combat the shadow tag pokemon.
  11. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,412
    Guys, there are a lot of Dragons in the Gen 5 metagame, so maybe we should start looking at our Bulky Steel-types and other Pokemon that can viably take Dragon hits while doing something useful in the metagame. :toast:
  12. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,658
    RE: Dragons.

    The bulk difference is huge! How is 108 / 95 / 85 insignificant compared to 76 / 90 / 70?

    Timid Scarf Latias Draco Meteor:
    vs. 4 / 0 Haban Garchomp: 65.4% - 77.1%
    vs. 4 / 0 Haban Ononokusu: 92.9% - 109.5%

    Wasn't the point of Haban to not be revenged by Scarf Dragons?

    Timid Scarf Shanderaa Fire Blast:
    vs. 4 / 0 Garchomp: 30.2% - 35.8%
    vs. 4 / 0 Ononokusu: 42.9% - 51%

    With SR down, Ono can't set up even after Shanderaa traps something. Garchomp can, and is better-able to force it out because sacking it is useless if I EQ and you've done pitiful Fire Blast damage.

    Naive 252 Attack Life Orb Salamence Outrage:
    vs. 4 / 0 Haban Garchomp: 0% as you outspeed and OHKO [76.3% - 89.9% if it does hit you]
    vs. 4 / 0 Ononokusu: 92.9% - 109.5%

    This is pretty huge, isn't it?

    Adamant Lucario Close Combat:
    -1 vs. 0 / 4 Salamence: 29.9% - 35.3%
    vs. 4 / 0 Ononokusu: 92.2% - 108.5%

    Salamence can set up on (and check!) a lot of stuff Ononokusu can't.

    +2 252 Attack Life Orb Ononokusu Earthquake vs. 252 / 252 Relaxed Nuttre: 49.4% - 58%
    +2 252 Attack Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 / 252 Relaxed Nuttre: 71.6% - 84.1%
    +2 252 Attack Life Orb Garchomp Fire Fang vs. 252 / 252 Relaxed Nuttre: 125% - 147.7%
    4 SpA Life Orb Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 / 0 Relaxed Nuttre: 210.2% - 247.7%

    Garchomp and Salamence can both get through Nuttre easier, even if Garchomp doesn't run Fire Fang. Skarmory doesn't really stop any of them, so that point is moot.

    Salamence is easier to set up because of Intimidate, its Ground immunity and better resistances. Garchomp gets ridiculous amounts of extra bulk, Sand Veil and most importantly STAB Earthquake (plus Rock resistance and a Thunder Wave immunity).

    I'll do Bullet Punch calcs in a minute.
  13. Arch

    Arch

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,174
    Guys I agree. :heart:
  14. revdjweb

    revdjweb

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    48
    I think the disconnect with Ononokusu is looking at him through the paradigm of Shoddy tiers or in the BW videogame in general. In a faster dragon-loaded Uber tier Ononokusu isn't going to fare that well but in the VCGs or Wi Fi or even OU usage it is going to have to be accounted for.
  15. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,658
    We're not talking Ubers. It is likely that both Garchomp and Salamence will return to OU in Gen V.
  16. Arch

    Arch

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,174
    The dragon type has gotten a slew of new toys this time around, the metagame is going to be crawling with overpowered dragons.

    There are surely going to be some non-legendary dragons that get kicked to ubers. As for who, I won't make any bets.
  17. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,658
    I'm not so sure about that, Arch, not with the general increase in power level thanks to a lot of the new mons + weather.
  18. Panthera

    Panthera

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    25
    A LOT of types have gotten new toys. Dragon really isn't all that impressive in terms of new toys; compared to water getting Swimming Goggles for all kinds of trickery (including Trick!) and Boiling Water, fire getting a ton of powerful attackers (140 attack Hihidaruma? 145 SpA Shanderaa with Shadow Tag? Butterfly Dance Urugamosu?), fighting getting a bunch of new representatives, psychic special attackers getting a move to bypass Blissey...it's pretty safe to say that the overall level of power in 5th gen OU will be higher than in 4th gen; given how controversial Mence and Latias were already, it's entirely possible that power level increase will drag them back down, and who knows about Chomp?

    EDIT: Funny how I can list some nice boosts various types got without even mentioning possible OU Drought and Drizzle and the new Sandstorm abusers, huh?
  19. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    5,412
    All Pokemon are "OU" at the start of Gen 5. Nothing is banned as of now and nothing will be when we first play.
  20. Wilson

    Wilson

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    100
    This metagame is going to be a lot faster than 4th gen but I think it's going to be awesome. It reminds me of the NFL - fast, with a ton of amazing options.

    What really could make this better is if the metagame shifted towards more than 6 pokemon per team. Though it sounds crazy, I think this could keep teams from having multiple pokemon they just simply cant counter (because if we ban all the incredible pokemon this gen, ubers will be one of the biggest tiers).
  21. Garganator

    Garganator

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
    540
    Anyway, I'm not sure where should I ask this, and I guess that this thread is the best one for this question.

    Let's assume that some Arceus forms will be banned (maybe none will be, who knows?) and for example players think that 2 forms are balanced enough to stay in OU after voting, council, etc. Here's the question - would all Arceus be banned anyway or we just allow those 2 forms stay in ? Well, technically all Arceus forms are the same Pokemon, however with all different typings, practically making them 'each Arceus is like a different Pokemon'. Thanks for answer on this one, as I'm curious.
  22. thatgirl

    thatgirl

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    60
    I'm surprised Latios isn't absolutely terrifying everyone. As bad as Axeface is, he's not nearly as fast while Latios has comparable power, though in terms of special attack. he outpaces and easily mauls tons of threats both old and new including Dragonite, Salamence, Garchomp, Flygon, Sazando, Chandalier, Axeface, Gyara, Shaymin, the ugly fighting trio, Flame Mothra, The Snowflake, Heatran. When he's done ripping your team apart he can Memento and set up the next switch in for a free turn of set up (DD Mence or BD Moth). He can even go mixed with something like DD/EQ/Pulse or Meteor/Surf OR Recover in addition to his well known and devastating CM sets. Choice items might not be in this Gen, but I don't think anyone needs to be reminded of specs Meteor.
  23. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,658
    Problem with Lati@s is lack of coverage on Nattorei.
  24. ThePokePwner

    ThePokePwner

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    53
    I think that lots of 4th gen pokemon are going to be back on top. New abilities will really mix things up and triple battles will change on how we look at singles and doubles.

    I also predict that this game is going to be awesome when i play it.
  25. JSND

    JSND

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    951
    Quite underatting Ononokusu eh ? 95 Base is nice(wait its 97 trollfreak) and it can survive ice punch from weavile and ice shard from weavile. It has EQ mold breaker that can deal with the star of this gen Rotom Water that will rise in usage to combat all those
    water types running rampant in gen 5 and with gen 4 Top Water Pokemon getting crazy buff such as the caution we need to combat the EQ Spiral Gyarados,Dragon in general will rise in usage(and him too) i predict it will be OU mid or maybe OU high. Uber OU dragon like Garchomp and Salamence is just too crazy(especialy Chomp).
    And IF onono scarf is quite popular, all flygon will use scarf making him oh so predictable making another metagame shift. I think onono is quite(not too big though)
    uber worthy even more than Shazando. I mean hes a reverse gyarados in word term.
    Yeah Gyarados selling point is its bulk and anti metaness but with 147 base make up for it, 97 Base speed(enough to outspeed rotom-A) and as many have calculated it can survive a huge deal of "strong" ice attack
    it might make a blast in OU

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)