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Predictions under Pressure (OU Hail, 1980+)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Nysyr, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. Nysyr

    Nysyr

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    374
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Intro

    Hail was my first and last love of gen 5. It's been a roller coaster ride, and it's finally time to put BW2 to bed. Perhaps when Gen 6 comes out I will try Hail again, however weather may change. I revamped the team one last time, and probably won't be making another team.

    Team Building Process

    In Depth
    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 SDef / 20 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Giga Drain
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Blizzard

    Specially defensive tree for ALL the Hydros. In all honesty snow is just there to set hail / cancel rain, and to troll bulky waters. Physical attacker set was scald burn bait, so I went with a special attacker set to avert that.

    EVs are for ALL the Hydros. 20 speed for giggles and to outspeed things + scout for Spdef ttar set if I send out first turn. Can also get a seed off on slow Jellies.

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Stealth Rock
    - Endeavor

    Part one of the core I based the team around. This thing is all about revenging dragons and getting SR up if I absolutely need to. Endeavor lets me be a troll in hail, and can royally screw with stall if you play it right. I find Endeavor more useful than spear, given how piss weak it is without LO, and will often fail to kill dnite thru scale if you can't get like 4 hits. Gives mamo something to do as well if he gets burnt by something like Ninetales

    [​IMG]
    Magnezone @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 120 Spd / 252 SAtk / 136 HP
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Volt Switch
    - Flash Cannon
    - Sleep Talk

    Ferrothorn Forretress Scizor, my name is death. These 3 troll Kyu-B to no end, and need to be removed. It is also a bullet punch deterrent for when Mamo and Kyu-B are in, since zone can come out and kill them off. Sleep Talk just for Utility and sponging sash looms. Luckily most Sashloom users haven't figured out that Sleep Talk zone is pretty darn standard.

    Just went with the bulky spread since Jolly Scizor is the new thing. EVs hit 185 just for defensive Skarms really, and some Jellicent/Toed spreads. Rest is into HP for bulk.

    [​IMG]
    Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 Spd / 200 Atk / 56 HP
    Lonely Nature
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Blizzard
    - Dragon Claw
    - Substitute

    Last part of the offensive core. Abusing substitute like no other to other, this thing grabs so many kills when it gets a free sub that it isn't funny. I despise the banded set since it really doesn't remove what you need it to, and the opponent can chose which pokemon they sac to put it at 5-5. The moveset is standard, but I have Blizzard over beam, since I'm running Hail. Blizzard is harder to switch into, plus standard Ferro has a very good chance of being 3hkoed in Hail.

    EVs are standard, just with more speed incase I ever face a Kyu-B with HP fire. 405 HP for 4 subs and setting up on Seismic Toss.

    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 112 Spd / 248 HP / 148 Def
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Rapid Spin
    - Sludge Wave

    Hail utility king Tentacruel. Keeps rocks/spikes/tspikes off the field for Kyu-B, while checking a fair number of fighting types not named banded terrakion. Sludge Wave is just for stab against grass types, and can OHKO breloom fairly easy. I preffer it for that little bit of power, which changes OHKOing loom from like 56.25% to around 87.5%, also is guarenteed to kill after Hail while Sludge Bomb doesn't. Hitting regular poison can also suck when you want to toxic things. I went with Rain Dish over my usual Liquid Ooze because I hate rain stall, and I'm using Toxic and not Toxic Spikes so Passo Volcarona isn't as dangerous. Toxic has been more useful for checking things with the plethora of pokes immune to Toxic Spikes, and those that can absorb them.

    EVs are just to outspeed things that would be really dangerous to my team, like Mamoswine, Sub Kyu-B, and Sub Roost Kyurem. The bulk loss isn't really much, and only amounts to around 13% lost (ie 5% more on something that would have done 40%). Rest is for bulk, you know the score.

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Secret Sword
    - Surf
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    My reliable revenge killer for the team. Basically Keldeo carries the team on it's back when facing offensive teams. I decided overall it was better to just check Terrakion with this thing rather than trying to futilely counter it. The offensive pressure plus added hail damage helps with punishing Terrakion getting a kill. Not much to talk about on the set, as it can't get any more standard.



    Yes I know I'm Terrakion weak, and so is everything that doesn't have 100% HP Def Hippowdown. Lando-T doesn't do much for it in hail since I get zero recovery in my own weather. Its about not letting Terrakion get any momentum.

    Rate and Hate folks.



    Importable:

    Code:
    Abomasnow @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 SDef / 20 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Giga Drain
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Blizzard
    
    Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Stealth Rock
    - Endeavor
    
    Magnezone @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 120 Spd / 252 SAtk / 136 HP
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Volt Switch
    - Flash Cannon
    - Sleep Talk
    
    Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 Spd / 200 Atk / 56 HP
    Lonely Nature
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Blizzard
    - Dragon Claw
    - Substitute
    
    Tentacruel @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 112 Spd / 248 HP / 148 Def
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Rapid Spin
    - Sludge Wave
    
    Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Secret Sword
    - Surf
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
    Uzumaki Naruto and scotti like this.
  2. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,497
    Hey Nysyr, cool hail team.

    You seem to have most of hail's normal threats covered (Terrakion, Keldeo, Sun). But I do notice that you have a bit of trouble against Alakazam. You also lack a Choice Scarfer, so you can be threatened by things that can set up on you like Gyarados. I feel like, of all the members of your team, Scizor is the most replaceable. It already acts as your "revenge killer" with Bullet Punch, and can trap certain Latios and Latias (but not ones with HP Fire), but I feel like it doesn't fit that role as well as other things could. To fix this problem, I recommend Scarf Jirachi over Scizor. Jirachi can act as a much better revenge killer, taking out +1 Gyarados with ThunderPunch (Ice Punch isn't needed since you already have Ice Shard on Abomasnow). Iron Head can help deal with Kyurem-B more easily, and U-turn takes a decent chunk out of Alakazam, Lati@s, Starmie, and other psychic types that could be troublesome. Another good reason to use Jirachi is Healish Wish, which can help you win the weather war by healing Abomasnow, or restoring a weakened Kyruem so it can continue to stall. Overall, I think Jirachi fits your team's needs better than Scizor.

    Hope I was able to help! Good luck with the team!

    Set (open)

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Iron Head / Meteor Mash
    - ThunderPunch
    - U-turn
    - Healing Wish


    Nysyr likes this.
  3. Nysyr

    Nysyr

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Show Hide



    I like this suggestion a lot, but Thunder Punch doesn't do much to anything but Gyarados, so I'll have to play around with the set.
    Halcyon. likes this.
  4. Parkerseeker

    Parkerseeker

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    Perhaps swap out Protect for Earthquake on Abomasnow? It can nail Ninetails and Heatran on the switch. Im a fan of protect, but without lefties, its a bit less useful, plus it blows your choice bluff (which you can use later in the game).
  5. Nysyr

    Nysyr

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
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    I suppose this could work, main issue being you can't protect + HP fire for guarenteed kill on banded scizor after the hail damage. Also it's nice to have protect on something to stall out stuff like toxic and TR turns. If I do add EQ to the set, I would be tempted to chuck HP fire, or would need to EV it to outspeed defensive heatran (not outspeeding offensive anyways).

    I have my own heatran that deals with those 2 anyways, so I'm tempted to just stick with the current set. Even if its SD scizor that doesn't bother me since he doesnt really gain momentum since I have 2 SD scizor checks.

    Edit: lol first match after I took off Scizor I get a CM reun. Go figure. Would definitely need to be adamant to deal with that bulky little prick.

    Edit 2: Adding Jirachi over Scizor + Changed snows set. With Healing wish I can be more ballzy with predictions and don't need protect to scout.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
  6. Nysyr

    Nysyr

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Considering Alakazam/Lati@s over Jirachi just for OU current purposes.

    Edit: Thinking HP flying might be > Hp psy since croak can't do as much to me as breloom does.

    Edit2: Replaced hp psy for hp fly.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  7. Kawaii Kyouko

    Kawaii Kyouko

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    365
  8. Lampent

    Lampent

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    28
    Just a suggestion. Maybe Blizzard over Ice Beam on Kyurem? Since you ARE running a Hail Team...
  9. HeartOfCheese

    HeartOfCheese

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
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    Insane team man!
  10. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,061
    Hey There.
    It is a very interesting team you have there, I can't really rate your team because it seems correct to me, but I'll help you.
    First I notice a big weakness against Landorus-T, you hasnt pokemon with Levitate or immunity against grounds attacks, and the opponent can easily explode Air balon, then I noticed weakness against Terrakion bander, because it can do a lot of damage, it can set up easily on your team (Jirachi locked/Abomasnow/Tentacruel/Kyurem/Heatran), and if you put Conckeldurr the opponent will inevitably switch because Mach punch is obvious, you will be very disadvantaged, i'd suggest Landorus-T support over Conckeldurr, Landorus-T is a very good pokemon for your team, it can easily come on Terrakion and Landorus-T, and then with Hidden power Ice you can kill the others Landorus-T, with Uturn you can keep the momentum against offensives teams and keep offensive pressure with Jirachi@Uturn, and now you are fewer weak to Breloom SD.

    Finally i suggest you to put Hp psy over Hp flying because you can kill more easily Toxicroak and you can touch same things. ;)

    I Hope I Helped and Good Luck with your Team.
    ~Leftiez
  11. Nysyr

    Nysyr

    Joined:
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    Show Hide



    -1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 200 HP / 224 Def Landorus-T: 142-168 (38.48 - 45.52%) -- 11.72% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and weather

    Doesn't work with hail since you get no lefties recovery. You can only switch in once, and the next time is an OHKO. Even a chance to be 2HKOed from full health.

    To play around Terrakion with hail you need to sac and gain momentum to never let it back in.

    Pivot lando-t could work over Heatran though, it would make me more weak to sun.

    Edit: Lando-T over Heatran is working well.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  12. PDC

    PDC D I R T
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hi

    This is overall a very solid team and it shows off a pretty solid Hail build. I do like how the teams built, and it definitely showcases an underrated weather in hail. Abomasnow is definitely cool in this metagame and I have always liked hail teams. Not too much to edit, but there are a few things that I would change. My first suggestion would be to change up Jirachi's spread a little. I would make it a little slower and a bit bulkier because you're using an Adamant Nature, and switch the EVs too 76 HP / 252 Atk / 60 SDef / 120 Spe. This grants you more bulk and enough Speed to still outrun Dragon Dance Dragonite, which is the most common setup sweeper. Jirachi isn't revenging Volcorona or anything else any time soon, and you get enough speed to outrun basically anything you need too. This Jirachi is a bit bulkier and can take stray Draco Meteors and Surfs from Lati@s, which is very helpful. My final suggestion is switching too Toxic Spikes on Tentacruel to help Kyurem acheive his goal easier, as it is almost always a better conjunction than Toxic when paired with that Kyurem set.

    Good luck!
  13. Nysyr

    Nysyr

    Joined:
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    Current Changes I'm testing:

    Lando-T over Heatran.
    Tentacruel can now run HP psy, toxic is still better since it makes the team less Sun/Volc weak.

    Looking into common sets to figure out speed for Jirachi. Just gonna stick with 299 to outspeed ScarfWash, and other random stuff ladder randoms like to use (jolly dnite, gyara max speed, haxorus, heid, etc).
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2013
  14. Nysyr

    Nysyr

    Joined:
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    Welp, I decided to revamp the team as a parting shot for BW2.

    Needless to say the meta has gotten stale, and hail was all that kept me going.

    Current team is based around the Sash Mamo + Zone + Sub Kyu-B core.
  15. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Hey, nice team. While I like the team, it's pretty weak to Fighting-types. Your only Fighting-resist is Tentacruel, and in Hail it will get worn down easily. Hence threats like Banded Terrakion, Conkeldurr and Breloom can mess up your team. Standard threats to hail are pretty bad to face, such as Volcarona. Hazards hurt your team as Tenta gets worn down VERY easily. Sun is a bit of a bitch to face in general, as Sashed Mamoswine is pretty weak and isn't as immediately threatening to sun as LO Mamo.

    So what I would suggest is Icicle Spear on your Mamoswine. Granted, you don't like it, and though it might not OHKO Dragonite always, it usually does with 3 hits. However, the main reason to make this change is sashed Breloom, who would otherwise beat you with bullet seed. Also, this is an optional change, but if you lead with abomasnow, change the Focus Sash to Life Orb. Life Orb mamoswine is a great asset against sun teams and can pressure most teams well.

    I second PDC's change of Toxic to Toxic Spikes. While you don't beat spinblockers 1v1, many teams don't carry a grounded poison type and it's really useful against those teams. You can also set them up early. Even with Toxic, the matchup vs. Gengar will be the same. Plus Sub Kyu-B abuses tspikes greatly. While Passho Volc is a pain, it really isn't paired with Tentacruel, so nothing absorbs the tspikes. Starmie can spin them away, but offensive starmie is worn down easily. Also, Scarfed Keldeo can still do huge damage to it and ehh, it's more useful on your kind of team.

    Third change I suggest is Earth Power over Dragon claw on Kyurem-B. Dragon Claw really doesn't hit anything and Earth Power is useful for non specially defensive Jirachi and Heatran, who are a pain to your current set. also it gains perfect coverage due to Teravolt.

    Hope I helped!
    tl;dr:
    changes (open)

    Endeavor----->Icicle Spear
    Toxic-------->Toxic Spikes
    Dragon claw------->Earth Power
  16. swwaaggeerr

    swwaaggeerr

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    zone without tbolt? i no its a hail team and all but i think the synergy can be slightly better because any team with a acro scizor and a poke to dump on keldeo has a huge advantage. somethng like gyarados wud b a nice addition as its nice to hav a setup sweeper which can setup on some of the threats to ur team. it also helps a bit wit sun teams as i think we can agree they arent the easiest for this team to face.

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