Prelude of Light (OU Sun + UU Subs) [Peaked at 7th]

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Katakiri, May 11, 2011.

  1. RandomName12321

    RandomName12321

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    If you don't mind, l am borrowing Liligant and l will attempt to make an anti-metagame/weather team with it. (: This is an amazing team and Gz on the Archive nomination.
  2. Byrn Dragonstone

    Byrn Dragonstone

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    First things first, amazing work dude. I myself run a Sun team, and with prevalence of Sand I can attest to how hard it is to make a decent team that can actually win.Now on to the actual suggestions on my part.

    Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Drought
    EVs: 124 HP / 132 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Overheat
    - Rest
    - Power Swap
    - Will-O-Wisp

    This is my current Ninetails set. Biggest differences over your are EV's and Rest. The EV's that I am using provide the greatest special bulk while being able to speed tie with other Base 100's and Overheat them to death/Power Swap. I highly suggest these as they have helped me out a lot, though I don't know your playstyle so they might not work for you as well. As for rest, I use it to heal to full and allow for a couple more Sun switches/Status pivot.

    Also if you are having issues with Gliscor I have some things that might help.

    First up.

    Metagross @ Leftovers
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 108 Atk / 24 Def / 128 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Meteor Mash
    - Ice Punch
    - Earthquake/Pursuit/Bullet Punch
    - Hone Claws

    Yes a boosting Meta that isn't an Agiligross. This thing has the Bulk to survive a +2 Gliscor's Earthquake and OHKO with Ice Punch. It can also kill every dragon known to man. After a single Hone Claws it basically OHKO's the entire Metagame. Last moveslot is for coverage. Pursuit allows it to kill the Lati's, Earthquake makes it less walled by Ferrothorn, Bullet Punch is priority. Also since most Gliscor tend to switch in when they see Meta it makes killing them that much easier.

    The other Pokemon is a rather underrated Pokemon in my opinion. It can kill of many of the top tier threats and live to tell the tale.

    Crobat (M) @ Leftover/Life Orb
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Brave Bird
    - Tailwind/Mean Look/Torment/Taunt/Super Fang
    - Roost

    Yep, Crobat. Able to outspeed much of the tier it can provide support or just attack and run. U-Turn is obvious scouting/getting out to a better match up. Brave Bird is you STAB of choice. It allows you to go toe to toe with Gliscor and win. It also kills every fighting type (I think, haven't calc'd Lucario) and is a OHKO on Conkledurr. Adamant nature is needed for the extra power and since he sits so high up in the Speed Tiers it isn't going to affect what you outspeed. Roost is to heal off damage from SR and stray moves. The moveslot with all the slashes is where it gets interesting. Tailwind means you team is basically all Cloro users for a few turns (Imagine a Sand Rush Garchomp O.O, or a Mach 5 Lilligant). Mean Look allows you to trap some of the more annoying stuff, such as Gliscor, to weaken or kill. Torment/Taunt are able to break a lot of pokemon, especially choiced mons. Super Fang can be used to quickly shave off half of your opponents health before U-Turning to another Pokemon. Leftovers VS Life Orb is Health VS Damage. Roost can help negate the Life Orb, but with a SR weakness the leftovers are useful.

    Some other notable moves are Haze and Sunny Day. Your team doesn't seem to be in need of what those obviously provide so I left them off.

    Anyways those are the suggestions that I have. If you find any of them to be useful let me know.
  3. Ada

    Ada With my "weakest", I will defeat your "strongest"!
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    This is a really great team! It helped me get started with sun so I want to be able to thank you. I'm doing my best laddering with it right now to help get it archived. In the meantime, how about some suggestions:

    I think you should replace Durant with Scizor. Scizor checks Terrakion whilst acting as a fail-safe against Latios. It also provides some much needed priority for the team. Unlike Durant, Scizor doesn’t just roll over and die to any special attacks and can muscle its way past Gliscor after a couple of boosts. The set I recommend is:

    Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Roost

    Scizor fits in well with the strategy of the team. It can take advantage of the sun to get past bulky waters and checks many more threats with powerful priority. Scizor also has more targets to set-up on and increases your overall consistency by utilising moves that are perfectly accurate.

    The next change I would consider is with Snorlax: I think Fire Punch should replace Crunch. Pursuit already does a decent job handling Ghosts but Fire Punch can be used to take out Ferrothorn and Scizor since most of them don’t carry Superpower any more. Also, since we’re not using Durant, Body Slam should replace Return. The extra chance of paralysis helps against many things hoping to switch in on a weak dark-type move.


    That’s all I can think of at the moment, I hope it helps. :)
  4. stephenjm

    stephenjm

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    I love this team! Especially the nicknames! (Except for Totakeke :P)
    Will probably change Infernape on my own team, though, as I've never been a fan of him. Maybe Victini.
  5. JLei2k

    JLei2k

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    Am I the only one who is wondering how the heck you deal with Specs Toad? 83.3% to 2HKO Snorlax with SR down while Liligant takes 65% with no recovery move meaning you can't switch into it while it can basically switch into Ninetails with impunity and press Surf and kill something.

    So basically against a Specs Toad you never have Sun up unless you double switch like a genius or it basically systematically kills each of your pokes 1 by 1 because Ninetails can't do shit to it and you can't switch into it.

    Specs/LO Starmie in the rain is even scarier as its harder to revenge kill with Chomp/ Ape.

    Maybe I'm not seeing it but seems like this sun team is horrendously rain weak.
  6. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk

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    care to explain how, as lilligant outspeeds specs toed even when its not in sun, and a leaf storm or even a sleep powder should shut toed down
  7. JLei2k

    JLei2k

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    Toad switches into Ninetails. Presses Surf. Liligant switches in takes 65%. Toad switches out (rain is still up) while you do whatever Sleep something YAY...when you bring Ninetails back in to get Sun up...Toed switches in. You now have nothing to switch into it. It presses Surf, something dies. You basically have to sacrifice Ninetails since it's dead weight or let Politoed keep killing stuff. Then Thundurus, Tornadus, Azumarill, Starmie whatever fuck shit up with the rain up.

    Basically what ends up happening is you never have Sun up and rain sweepers take advantage of this team because they are faster than the teams attacking core of Chomp, Durant, Infernape (Genies and Starmie).

    You do realize in Pokemon that you can switch out right? Unless the person is retarded they will never leave Specs Toad in on Lilligant.
  8. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    Thanks for all the feedback again, everyone! After not using Sun for a few days & playing in a Smash Bros Brawl tourney, (My wallet always loves the cash I get from those) I'm finally back to testing Sun.

    Ninetales doesn't need Rest. Leftovers lets her switch-in more than enough to keep Sun up and if I need her alive for a few more switches than that, Lilligant always has Healing Wish as an option.

    I tried that Metagross earlier except I used Hammer Arm instead of Earthquake. I loved it for a while until I realized it wasn't helping much. All it really did was help against Pokemon I already have checks for and call in Skarmory & Bulky Water-types. It's also too slow to keep up with all the Sun-boosted Fire Attacks coming from faster Pokemon. It just does Durant's job, but far slower while helping out with Pokemon like Garchomp & Gliscor that I sort of have covered already...kinda just like Durant does.

    Hell, Durant even stops Deoxys-S by T-Waving it on turn 1 then Paraflinch it for the 2HKO (assuming Sash) mmeaning it can only get 1 entry hazard up or 1 Screen. (Unless they played me before & know about T-Wave)

    That Crobat set has peaked my curiosity. I'm gonna try it out, but I'm going to use Infiltrator instead of Inner Focus just to pass through Reflect.

    Thanks!

    I'll definitely give that Scizor a whirl. I really like Durant's fast T-Wave & even Entertainment but I can see how Scizor can help. Doesn't do me any favors against Lucario though... *shrugs*

    Fire Punch on Snorlax might not be a bad idea. Yeah, I'd like to hit those Steel switch-ins, but I do lose the ability to beat Reuniclus & Jellicent 1v1. (Jellicent assuming Safeguard is up)

    Specs Politoed is a problem on paper, but it's completely solve-able and has never really given me any trouble unless they know about my team beforehand.

    Simple Scenario:
    Turn 1 Politoed switches to Ferrothorn to counter Lilligant.
    Turn 2 Lilligant Sleep Powders Ferro.
    Turn 3 Lilli switches to Ninetales.
    Turn 4 Ninetales switches to Infernape and Ferro switches to Politoed.
    Turn 5 Infernape Close Combats Politoed. (81% minimum HP Damage) Politoed Surfs Infernape. (100% HP Damage) Infernape Faints.
    Turn 6 Snorlax comes in. Politoed switches to Ferroth- Snorlax Pursuits. (47.4% minimum HP Damage) Politoed Faints
    Turn 7 Ninetales switches in. GG Politoed.

    If Infernape, Garchomp, or Durant can get a single nonresistant STAB Attack on Politoed, that scenario will almost always play out just like that. I'll lose 1 Pokemon, 2 max, but Politoed goes down.

    And don't even try to say that any Spec Politoed worth his curly hair would stay in against a Snorlax without previous knowledge that Snorlax has Pursuit. (Not like it matter anyway since Snorlax's Pursuit will do enough to KO even if it stays in)

    Starmie is even easier since it runs Timid. Get Ninetales in and take around 70% from Life Orb Hydro Pump, switch to Snorlax, then Pursuit. Not hard at all considering I have quite a knack for dragging Politoed out of his hole and KOing him early before Ferro even has a good chance to get Stealth Rocks up.
  9. chrisrandom9

    chrisrandom9

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    I have two things to say. Firstly, this is a great team, original too. Secondly, it's everywhere with Scizor instead of Durant. I must have played it about 8-10 times with my test account.
  10. Raiu638

    Raiu638

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    This is a pretty good team. To be honest, I think you could do better with a Steel-type in a Sun team. For Durant, you're only boosting moves that Durant has a 4x weakness too. An infinitely better choice would be Heatran, even though you don't like it. Still a Steel-type, avoids Earthquake via Air Balloon, and if you try hitting it with a Fire-type move, you raise his already boosted Fire-type moves. Perfect for switch-ins on Fire-types looking to decimate Lilligant. And speaking of Lilligant, did you say a Leaf Storm OHKOs Gyarados? That things design has been fooling me. It looks far inferior to its counterpart, Whimsicott. As for OHKOing Tyranitar, that thing most likely didn't have any Sp. Defense EVs invested in it. In the sand it gets a 1.5x Sp. Defense boost, so if it had a decent amount of Sp. Defense EVs invested, I'd expect it to survive it.

    As for Durant, if you'd much rather keep it, you could always go for the Truant/Entrainment combo. Then switch into, say Chandelure, while using Protect when they attack, and boosting+attacking while they're slacking off. Makes for a perfect setting up of a sweeper. Plus, Chandelure's a Fire-type.
  11. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    I've yet to see one! I hear about them, but never ran into one. >:

    In retrospect, I don't think it actually KOs Gyara all the way assuming the bulky set is still standard. But she does OHKO Tyranitar. They need a lot of Sp.Def investment to withstand a SE Leaf Storm even with Sandstorm up.

    If they do survive it, they're running the copy & paste Anti-metagame set so Snorlax can come in & Pursuit it's remaining HP away when he KOs Lilligant with Fire Blast. Lose Lilligant, but the Sand is gone for good.

    So regardless of which version of Tyranitar they're using, staying in against Lilligant is just walking into a death trap.


    This isn't a Dream World team btw. Durant counters my two biggest OU threats; Terrakion & Sawsbuck. Heatran doesn't help at all against them.
  12. Omglolitsj

    Omglolitsj

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    lol lilligant does NOT 1hko tar, it does around 70-80% AFTER life orb, but still comes close. but thats vs 252/252 tar, most t tars arent 252/252 tho, so w/e
  13. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    "Most" aren't? "Most" would assume that someone is actually using that Tyranitar. Why would anyone ever be running those kind of EVs on Tyranitar? That's just a waste of a Tyranitar. That's not even a threat to Lilligant in the first place without any decent offensive presence.

    She does OHKO most normal Tyranitar with the exception of the copy & paste Latios/Ferro/Gliscor counter T-tar who, again, gets shafted by Snorlax's Pursuit after Lilli Leaf Storms.

    Unless it's perfectly EV'd to take a Leaf Storm AND has enough Sp.Atk to KO Lilligant while OHKOing Snorlax with Superpower, Tyranitar's a dead 'mon if he stays in on Lilligant. (If he fire punches, I'm not sending Snorlax in anyway just because he probably does have SP, as rare as a Tyranitar that survives against Lilli that's physical is these days...haven't ran into one yet.)
  14. stephenjm

    stephenjm

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    I played with this team on PO, and have had some success with the following changes:

    -Changed Durant to Scizor. Durant really wasn't pulling his weight and he kept getting OHKO after thunder waving

    -Changed infernape to victini. Victini's V-create OHKO so many threats, it even OHKO'd a latios I faced!

    -Changed Crunch to Ice Punch on Snorlax to take care of Gliscor
  15. Ewil

    Ewil

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    I've found the adamant Crobat with Brave Bird/Torment/Roost/u-turn very useful for this team, he handles all the fight type and is immune to ground
  16. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    Okay, I got questions. You guys keep saying that Scizor can bust through Gliscor and do better at life itself than Durant can. So I'm trying Scizor now:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Veran (Scizor) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 32 SDef / 224 Sp (Out-speeds 252 Neutral Tyranitar & Magnezone)
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Swords Dance

    So...exactly how does Scizor beat Gliscor at all? Running calcs, after a SD, with no EV investment Gliscor does 70.5% - 83.3% to Scizor with EQ. At +2, Scizor's Iron Head does 52.5% - 62.1% to Gliscor. And that's Iron Head. Not Bullet Punch. Not to forget, with just 72 Speed EVs (the standard spread) Gliscor out-speeds max speed Scizor. The only thing Scizor has that can beat Gliscor is Hidden Power Ice which is a 3HKO with 2 Hidden Powers + 1 Bullet Punch which does beat Gliscor assuming he doesn't Protect to get extra healing. Gliscor's doing too much damage to even Roost off or even Morning Sun. (Yes Scizor gets it via 3rd Gen)

    However, Scizor does do Durant's biggest job; taking care of Sawsbuck & Terrakion, (Terrakion to a lesser extent than Durant did) so I may be keeping her on. May have to see if I really need Superpower, unlike Durant, Scizor's not really fast enough to even dream of hitting Heatran & Excadrill with it. Ferro's the only thing it would hit that's worth mentioning & he's scarcely worth it with half my team packing Fire moves and Lilligant with Sleep Powder. May just use Aerial Ace to deal with good ol' Rasputin. (Roopushin...Conkeldurr...>>)


    Next question, (that last one was hardly a question <<;) looking at the team, what do you think the biggest flaw of the team is? First with Durant on the team and then with Scizor. I feel like most of you are throwing Pokemon like Victini & Crobat at me without telling me what's wrong actually wrong with the team.

    "You mean aside from using Sun in OU? Trollolololol~"


    I love this game.

    I've found a few problems on my own that I need to iron-out, but I want to know what you, yes you, person reading this RTM, thinks is wrong or flawed with the team.
  17. Zcythe

    Zcythe

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    On Durant, Stone Edge/Thunder fang/X-Scissors gives better coverage than Iron Head/Crunch/X-Scissors. You lose effectiveness against Ghosts and Rock types but gain it versus Bug, Fire, Flying, Steel and Water. It wont help so much with Gliscor but it can relieve some strain from the rest of your team.
  18. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    For me, looking at the team without playing it I can't discern weaknesses to particular pokes or similar, but I will offer you my thoughts on the one weakness I see.

    Because you run a very much non-standard team, part of the reason you beat someone for the first time may be because they (understandably) presume their TTar to be able to take a Leaf Storm with ease, as an example. Once they've played you a tad and understand your unorthodox sets, they may be on more level ground since they know what your team is capable of.

    This is in no way a real flaw to be quite honest, but in a setting like ladder where you may well face someone a few times it could prove problematic, so you'll be relying on double-bluffing the opponent a fair bit when the last time you faced them you had a distinct advantage due to not expecting things like Healing Wish, Safeguard, etc. I know there's no easy way to alter this with the team's nature (and tbh I'm not even sure if you should since to an extent any rematch will face this issue) but it's just something to bear in mind I suppose, and that's why I wanted to point it out.
  19. Byrn Dragonstone

    Byrn Dragonstone

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    Nothing seems really wrong with the team, except for maybe some troubles with bulkier fighting types, but as I have found out a team can always be improved. Crobat was suggested for a couple reasons. Reason one was that you said you were having issues against Lucario, and Crobat provides a good check to it (Resisting STAB 4X, outspeeding and being able to kill it before it can really do anything). The second reason is that I felt it would provide good synergy with the other members of the team, particularly Snorlax, as I have used a core of them before and it works really well. Last thing it does is provide a nice ground immunity, which on a Sun team is one of the nicest things to have.

    Like I said I can't see any problems per say, but a team can always be improved, and that is why I made my suggestions.
  20. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
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    Erm... Without a Poison-type Pokemon or a Rapin Spinner, your team is lying pretty prone to all entry hazards. Infernape and Ninetales hate Stealth Rock while Spikes hurts all six members of your team. Toxic Spikes specifically will put on some hurt with only Durant escaping its thorny death.

    Roserade is a pretty cool option. It hits harder than Lilligant and can absorb Toxic Spikes. Venusaur can abuse the sunlight as well while performing a similar duty. Other options include Nidoking, Nidoqueen, and Drapion. Forretress is an obvious option for being available to spin away those entry hazards, despite its glaring weakness under sunlight.

    I really like the core of your team a lot and love that you're using some highly successful underused sets. My only piece of advice at the moment is to be either be wary of opponents who attempt to set up or bring in one of the above options.
  21. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    Thanks, guys!

    @Benlisted - That's kind of something ALL teams have to worry about. xD I have multiple ways of dealing with Tyranitar since if you look at the team, only Ninetales herself can't hurt him Super Effectively and even she has Will-O-Wisp.

    @Byrn - I'm assuming, you'd want me to replace Durant with Crobat, but that's literally one step forward & two steps back. The step forward is I can beat Lucario. Yay, but the two steps back are that Terrakion & Sawsbuck become giant issues again. That's why Durant's there in the first place; to check those two.

    But I found something that does all that and more...but...Ground weakness just abounds with her on this team...

    [​IMG]
    Twinrova (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Trick

    Twinrova with Fire & Ice attacks. You love it.
    The set's pretty straightforward. It's just how she comes with ANOTHER Ground weakness. That's the only off-putting thing thing about her.

    I really have no idea why I didn't think of Scarf Jirachi sooner. Last move slot is up for grabs really. ThunderPunch is looking pretty good, but so is another Healing Wish. (I'm so greedy when it comes to healing options :P)


    @Yourself(lol) - Toxic Spikes is scarcely an issue with Ninetales using Safeguard & Lilligant having Healing Wish for one last status-free switch-in. Spikes are annoying, but they're not too easy to setup with Fire Moves & Sleep Power looming around every corner. But yeah. Nothing's worse than Ninetales being forced to stay in and die due to SR.
  22. Ada

    Ada With my "weakest", I will defeat your "strongest"!
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    Yeah, I have a few things that I want to discuss. The main issue I have with this team is the massive fighting-type weakness that can easily be exploited. There's no real simple solution though, as Snorlax is an essential part of the team. Adding a flying-type doesn't really help either as it compounds the SR weakness. Other problems include full sun-based teams carrying a mixture of Heatran, Hitmontop, Venusaur etc. and some rain teams carrying Thundurus, Tornadus and Azumarill even.

    I have battle data on all the matches I've had though so I'm planning on reviewing it this weekend before making any significant changes. For now, I'm thinking of using Starmie in Garchomp's slot and swapping out Infernape for Victini. They can both lure in and eliminate Tyrannitar and have secondary typings which resist fighting. Starmie can also provide Rapid Spin support. The set I'm thinking of is:

    Starmie @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover

    It does increase the weakness to Lucario however, but it might be worth it in the long run. Also, the reason why I recommended LO Scizor was because it helps you reach the ending quicker. The Scizor set you posted seemed pretty awkward. I mean, Superpower and U-Turn have negative synergy with Swords Dance and without Life Orb; Scizor loses a LOT of power. This is also probably the only team that can use LO Scizor to its full potential. I did find it funny though, that every move on Scizor hits Tyranitar for super effective, LOL.

    Anyways, Jirachi looks interesting so I’ll be looking forward to any changes you make. Keep up the good work :)
  23. kittens

    kittens

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    Thank you much. I had not mistaken the participants through this forum to hear you talk I had more information needed.


  24. Byrn Dragonstone

    Byrn Dragonstone

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    @Katakiri
    I am unsure as to how Sawsbuck is able to beat Crobat anymore then it can Durant. Especially since Crobat 4X resists or is immune to most of its moves, bar Wild Bolt (Seen less due to recoil/less power, and overlapping with Grass STAB against more seen types) and Double Edge (While Durant has a weakness/neutrality to Nature Power and Jump kick). Terrakion could be more of an issue if it gets a Rock Polish up, otherwise you do outspeed and OHKO I believe (Unsure whether it is a OHKO on standard Terrakion, my 5th Gen calc is having issues at the moment).

    Poison really is one of those types that is often overlooked due to bad STAB, but as a defensive typing goes it is pretty dang good, especially in today's Metagame with fighting attacks flying everywhere. Add in Flying to give 1 immunity, 3 4X resistances and a regular resistance, all to common attacking types. And the bad side it does add an Ice (Fire and Snorlax absorbs) and a Rock weakness. Psychic and Electric are no brainers, as they basically as Snorlax or Garchomp to come in a kill something.

    I am not saying Durant is bad. What I am saying is that Crobat covers much the same roles that Durant is playing right now, and may offer more synergy with your team.

    @Ada
    If you run a Starmie on a Sun team either run Scald over Hydro Pump, or Hidden Power fighting, as with its power cut in half Hydro Pump does little in the Sun. Scald has its chance to burn, and if you want to hit Tyranitar HP fighting will allow you to do that. Otherwise you will be playing much of your matches a move short, which can make a lot of a difference.
  25. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    @Ada - The whole reason I don't like Victini is the same reason I don't use Flame Charge Chandelure, (Tried both of them before and they equally hit like trucks) they're Stealth Rock weak. Sure that would be remedied by Starmie to an extend, but I'd much rather not have SR being an issue to begin with. With Infernape, Lilligant, & Snorlax neutral and Garchomp & now Jirachi resisting Rocks, Ninetales is the only one that has any issues with them.

    With Victini being a Pokemon that's forced to switch-out very often, it's really not worth the loss of Speed & good dual-type coverage when SR & V-Create turns Victini into a frailer, pursuit weak Rampardos.


    @Byrn - Sawsbuck Double-Edge runs train on Crobat and the rest of the team. Steel-type that's neutral to Fighting is essential to beating the Deer.

    And while I'm against replacing Garchomp with Starmie just since Chomp's such an amazing Stall/Baton Pass breaker, if you're going to use a move just to hit Tyranitar, you're better off just using Hydro Pump since Sand will be in play anyway. The only Pokemon on a Sun team that has any business using HP Fighting is Chandelure since it can actually OHKO Tyranitar with it.


    EDIT:
    Okay, so after trying some Garchomp replacements like Starmie & Landorus, I've came to is conclusion: Garchomp is sort of a glue holding this team together. Starmie wasn't too bad, but Landorus was just disastrous. Stall pretty much has free run over the team if Garchomp is gone. Landorus isn't doing anything to Skarmory or Jellicent. Infernape is just laughed at by Jellicent if it's at full health, otherwise Flare Blitz can take around 50% HP from it. Even Starmie can't deal with Chansey & Ferrothorn, while Rapid Spin helps, without a full power Hydro Pump, it's not beating Gengar or other Ghosts & can't KO Jellicent with Thunderbolt either.

    Chansey, Steel-type, Jellicent cores run train on my team. Which is, if you look back through the Team Building process, was the entire reason I added Garchomp in the first place. So Garchomp is kind of...REALLY hard to replace. (Not that I particularly want to.)


    On a more positive note, Jirachi is definitely the newest "official" member of the team. Ground weakness is annoy but she's more that good for it. Kind of realized that she's being stretched a little thin though over the course of the battle. She has to be a Back-up Lead, Dragon check, Terrakion, Sawsbuck, Lucario, & Mienshao check, Baton Pass check, General Dragon-Dance check, Check check, Pay check, she just does too much and I have to be super careful to make sure she's only doing what she absolutely needs to. Otherwise she'll get whittled down & predictable and won't be around every long.

    I'll save all that for the OP write-up though. I supposed I need to make a brief UU write-up for Durant now as well...

    On an even better note, I don't think any one Pokemon it a giant threat to the team anymore with Lucario taken care of!
    But now the move Earthquake is my only true enemy. (Part of the reason I was looking into Landorus...just give him Fire Punch, GF...)

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