Ubers Primal Groudon (Mixed Rock Polish)

[Drew]

[SET]
name: Mixed Rock Polish
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Dragon Pulse
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Mild
evs: 48 Atk / 252 SpA / 144 SpD / 64 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Rock Polish helps boost Primal Groudon's otherwise average Speed to a point where it can outspeed almost the entire unboosted metagame.
* Fire Blast is Primal Groudon's best Fire-type move, and its ability to always 2HKO or potentially OHKO Arceus-Ground after some chip damage makes this the only Groudon set that can reliably power through Arceus-Ground, although Arceus-Ground can KO Primal Groudon with Judgment after some chip damage.
* Precipice Blades is Groudon's Ground-type STAB move and what it uses to break through special walls, such as Blissey and Kyogre.
* Hidden Power Ice 2HKOes a full-HP Zygarde-C, as well as OHKOing Mega Salamence and Rayquaza.
* Dragon Pulse is an alternative to Hidden Power Ice to hit more Dragon-types, mainly Giratina-O, and not specifically those with a secondary Ground or Flying typing, although it can't OHKO Mega Salamence or Rayquaza without Stealth Rock.
* Solar Beam may be used over Hidden Power Ice as well for Arceus-Water, Arceus-Ground, and Primal Kyogre while harsh sunlight is still active, although this forces you to sacrifice coverage on Dragon-types and allows Mega Salamence to set up on Groudon. Furthermore, it is very risky if your opponent has a Primal Kyogre or Rayquaza, as they can easily trap it into Solar Beam simply by switching in.

Set Details
========

* Running 64 Speed EVs lets Groudon outspeed base 90 Speed Choice Scarf users and unboosted Pheromosa after a Rock Polish boost.
* 144 Special Defense EVs let Primal Groudon survive a +2 Focus Blast from Xerneas and a Judgment from Arceus-Ground.
* The rest of the EVs are put into Attack and Special Attack along with a Mild nature to help give Primal Groudon more firepower.
* It is also good to note that with no HP investment and a Mild nature, this Groudon set is particularly weak to priority and very powerful and bulky physical attackers.

Usage Tips
========

* Mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon is particularly good at handling soft checks to Groudon, such as Yveltal, Mega Salamence, and Rayquaza, and it is able to beat or at least perform better than other sets against Pokemon such as Zygarde-C and Arceus-Ground, respectively.
* Rock Polish is best used when forcing a switch, although it can set up on a foe's attack if completely necessary due to its natural bulk.
* Be sure to KO or weaken this Groudon's biggest checks: Arceus-Water, Ho-oh, and defensive Primal Kyogre.
* To deal with each of its threats, Primal Groudon can use Precipice Blades to hit Arceus-Water and Primal Kyogre, but it can't weaken Ho-Oh in a any real meaningful way, so setting up Stealth Rock with another Pokemon to counteract this is a great idea.
* This set really should not be used to absorb damage, as it usually needs most of its HP left to sweep.
* Using Precipice Blades early on to try to bluff a physical set is recommended, as it can potentially lure in physical walls that can be eliminated with Fire Blast or Hidden Power Ice.

Team Options
========

* More offensive Stealth Rock users, such as Dialga, Deoxys-S, and Excadrill, are near mandatory when using this set, as Stealth Rock can weaken Ho-Oh, break Multiscale and Shadow Shield, and weaken any Pokemon switching in.
* Strong, offensive special attackers, such as Lunala, Yveltal, and Mega Salamence, can handle physical tanks for Groudon.
* Ground-immune Pokemon, such as Yveltal, Mega Salamence, and Rayquaza, can cover Groudon's weakness, and those three also provide good offensive pressure.
* Xerneas can take care of Dragon-types, such as Arceus-Dragon and Giratina-O, and they can weaken each other's threats quite well.
* Pokemon that deal with Arceus-Water, such as Dialga, Ferrothorn, Mega Gengar, and physical sweepers like Arceus and Mega Lucario, can help cover Groudon's weakness.
* A check to Primal Kyogre, such as Dialga, Palkia, Ferrothorn, or a Primal Kyogre of your own, is essential, as it stops Primal Groudon in its tracks with ease.

 

[Six Trails]

* Precipice Blades is Groudon's Ground-type STAB and what it uses to break through special walls, such as Blissey and Lugia.

Lugia is immune to Precipice Blades.

 

[Britania]

Dragon Pulse instead Thunderbolt, have more usage hitting Giratina and Mega Mence.
HP Ice OHKO Mega Mence and Rayquaza after Stealth Rocks, and hit harder Zygarde than dragon pulse.
Solar beam deserves a mention too hitting Arceus-Water and Arceus-Ground

 

[Drew]

Dragon Pulse instead Thunderbolt, have more usage hitting Giratina and Mega Mence. Can also run HP Ice.
Solar beam deserves a mention.

Already changed this and talking with zf, just havent applied edits yet.

 

[Drew]

Ready for QC!

 

[Nayrz]

I feel like we should try and fit in the fact that Latios/Latias no longer being viable have helped this set a lot, but the lack of overview on set additions makes this tricky...

I think HP Ice should be first slash here instead of not mentioned at all, Zygarde-C, Salamence and Rayquaza are more relevant targets than Giratina-O who only needs 15% to be 2HKOd by HP Ice. HP Ice will 2HKO a full HP Zygarde-C for instance, Dragon Pulse does not. HP Ice will OHKO Salamence and Rayquaza, Dragon Pulse needs SR to do it.

Note why Fire Blast's power actually makes this a viable set. With just 15-35% damage on Arceus-Ground (depending on spread) this Groudon set can blow right past it, something the other sets cannot realistically do (double dance needs both boosts and a favorable roll to pull it off). Its the only Groudon set capable of beating Zygarde on its own. Teams that use soft checks to regular RP Groudon like Yveltal, Salamence and Rayquaza or will get blown away by Fire Blast or HP Ice. It is also misleading to say Fire Blast is its most powerful move, as it learns both Overheat and Eruption. Reword that bit.

Precipice Blades isn't necessary for Clefable. No matter what spread its running, Fire Blast will do far too much damage, and what is Clefable able to do back anyway? Tickle it to death with Moonblast? Primal Kyogre is a big target for Precipice Blades here, because its immune to Fire Blast under heavy rain and would take no damage regardless of weather thanks to 160 SpD. Add that instead.

Solar Beam can probably see a moves mention but not a slash, it does have some targets in Arceus-Water, defensive Primal Kyogre (requires favorable weather) and an accurate option against Arceus-Ground at least.

Note in Usage Tips that running Mild and zero HP investment does make this set a bit more vulnerable to priority and taking physical attacks from stuff like Salamence, here's an example:

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Groudon-Primal: 309-364 (90.6 - 106.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (assuming it takes SR dmg as regular Groudon)

Note what checks this set needs weakened to get anywhere, I see you noted them in Team Options but not in this part... hint hint. Defensive Kyogre walls this set too, so note counterplays and team options to accomodate this weakness.

I'll take another look after the changes.

 

[Drew]

added and ready! thanks!

 

[Nayrz]

* Fire Blast is Groudon's main Fire-type STAB and its best Fire-type move, and always 3HKOing Arceus-Ground (or even 2HKOing depending on Arceus-Ground's set) makes this Groudon set particularly good at handling it, something that other Groudon sets can't manage to do easily.

252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground in Harsh Sunshine: 282-333 (74 - 87.4%) (SD Arceus-Ground)
252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground in Harsh Sunshine: 282-333 (63.5 - 75%) (Defensive Arceus-Ground)
These aren't 3HKOs, with chip damage it straight up dies if it doesn't have any investment.

* Using Precipice Blades early on to try and bluff a physical set is recommended, as it can potentially lure in physical walls that can be eliminated with Fire Blast or Dragon Pulse.
* Groudon usually.
*Remember to weaken Groudon's checks before attempting to sweep, as many can stop it in its tracks.

Dragon Pulse can be replaced with HP Ice to reflect the slashing in the first bullet. The second bullet point is a whoopsie. The last point has been noted a few lines above it, just reworded with more information, so remove this line and add what sort of damage is required on these checks (if they can be beaten by this set at all, if not, note what can be done about it) before a sweep is possible.

The first point of Team Options has been noted in Usage Tips already so it can likely be removed from here. Team Options should have ways of handling Arceus-Water - Mega Gengar, physical mons to overwhelm it, Dialga, that sorta thing. If Spikes users aren't necessary, there's no need to mention them. Its hard to fit Spikes with this as there arent that many users these days, and this Groudon set can't punish Defog well at all as some of its checks double as Defog users, which is a recipe for disaster.

Implement the changes and I should be able to stamp afterwards.

 

[Drew]

252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground in Harsh Sunshine: 282-333 (74 - 87.4%) (SD Arceus-Ground)
252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground in Harsh Sunshine: 282-333 (63.5 - 75%) (Defensive Arceus-Ground)
These aren't 3HKOs, with chip damage it straight up dies if it doesn't have any investment.

Dragon Pulse can be replaced with HP Ice to reflect the slashing in the first bullet. The second bullet point is a whoopsie. The last point has been noted a few lines above it, just reworded with more information, so remove this line and add what sort of damage is required on these checks (if they can be beaten by this set at all, if not, note what can be done about it) before a sweep is possible.

The first point of Team Options has been noted in Usage Tips already so it can likely be removed from here. Team Options should have ways of handling Arceus-Water - Mega Gengar, physical mons to overwhelm it, Dialga, that sorta thing. If Spikes users aren't necessary, there's no need to mention them. Its hard to fit Spikes with this as there arent that many users these days, and this Groudon set can't punish Defog well at all as some of its checks double as Defog users, which is a recipe for disaster.

Implement the changes and I should be able to stamp afterwards.

o i i think i may have done my calcs on the wrong forme. lol

 

[Drew]

Ok done and should be good this time.

 

[Nayrz]

QC 1/3

 

[oversway]

* Fire Blast is Groudon's main Fire-type STAB and its best Fire-type move, and its ability to always 2HKO, or potentially OHKO Arceus-Ground makes it the only Groudon set that can reliably beat Arceus-Ground.
Fire Blast can never KO Arceus-Ground from full, so clarify that a bit of chip damage is needed for it to do so. I also wouldn't label Primal Groudon as a "reliable" way to beat it since it can never switch in and Judgment will KO Groudon after a bit of prior damage.

Include that Dragon Pulse is able to hit Gira-O harder than HP Ice. Make sure to mention that a downside of running Solarbeam is you miss out on coverage for Dragon-types, which allows stuff like Mega Salamence to set up on you.

* 56 Speed EVs lets Groudon outspeed 90 Base Speed Choice Scarf users and an unboosted Pheromosa.
Clarify that this is after a RP boost. Also worth mentioning in Set Details that 144 SpD EVs avoids the OHKO from Arceus-Ground's Judgment.

The language in the first bullet in Usage Tips needs to be reworded to avoid giving off the impression that Primal Groudon is an Arceus-Ground check. It might be able to muscle past Arceus in certain situations but will always lose 1v1.

* Xerneas can take care of Dragon-types and boost alongside Primal Groudon.
Be more clear here. Which Dragon-types? Arceus-Dragon and Giratina-O are the most important ones. Mention how Xerneas can aid Primal Groudon's sweeping potential by weakening or removing its checks, just "boosting alongside Primal Groudon" isn't specific enough.

Arceus-Water isn't a Primal Kyogre check so remove it from the last bullet in Team Options.

Will stamp after changes

 

[Drew]

* Fire Blast is Groudon's main Fire-type STAB and its best Fire-type move, and its ability to always 2HKO, or potentially OHKO Arceus-Ground makes it the only Groudon set that can reliably beat Arceus-Ground.
Fire Blast can never KO Arceus-Ground from full, so clarify that a bit of chip damage is needed for it to do so. I also wouldn't label Primal Groudon as a "reliable" way to beat it since it can never switch in and Judgment will KO Groudon after a bit of prior damage.

Include that Dragon Pulse is able to hit Gira-O harder than HP Ice. Make sure to mention that a downside of running Solarbeam is you miss out on coverage for Dragon-types, which allows stuff like Mega Salamence to set up on you.

* 56 Speed EVs lets Groudon outspeed 90 Base Speed Choice Scarf users and an unboosted Pheromosa.
Clarify that this is after a RP boost. Also worth mentioning in Usage Tips that 144 SpD EVs avoids the OHKO from Arceus-Ground's Judgment.

The language in the first bullet in Usage Tips needs to be reworded to avoid giving off the impression that Primal Groudon is an Arceus-Ground check. It might be able to muscle past Arceus in certain situations but will always lose 1v1.

* Xerneas can take care of Dragon-types and boost alongside Primal Groudon.
Be more clear here. Which Dragon-types? Arceus-Dragon and Giratina-O are the most important ones. Mention how Xerneas can aid Primal Groudon's sweeping potential by weakening or removing its checks, just "boosting alongside Primal Groudon" isn't specific enough.

Arceus-Water isn't a Primal Kyogre check so remove it from the last bullet in Team Options.

Will stamp after changes

Implemented

 

[oversway]

Also worth mentioning in Set Details that 144 SpD EVs avoids the OHKO from Arceus-Ground's Judgment.

Make sure to include this

QC 2/3

 

[Fireburn]

Mention that Solarbeam is risky to use if the foe has a Primal Kyogre or Rayquaza in the back, since they can trap Groudon into the move and easily kill it.

QC 3/3

 

[Freeroamer]

I'd go up to 64 Speed as that allows you to outspeed Scarf Land-T(not amazingly common but you'd be pissed that one time you played it and wouldn't be able to outspeed) at not much cost and is also what the other RP set on the Dex already uses. Take the 8 EVs out of Attack as I don't believe there's any major difference with regard to rolls.

 

[Drew]

Mention that Solarbeam is risky to use if the foe has a Primal Kyogre or Rayquaza in the back, since they can trap Groudon into the move and easily kill it.

QC 3/3

Implemented

I'd go up to 64 Speed as that allows you to outspeed Scarf Land-T(not amazingly common but you'd be pissed that one time you played it and wouldn't be able to outspeed) at not much cost and is also what the other RP set on the Dex already uses. Take the 8 EVs out of Attack as I don't believe there's any major difference with regard to rolls.

Implemented as it doesn't change any Precipice Blades calcs too much. Giving this to GP unless someone tells me to revert the change above.

 

[P Squared]

GP 1/1
how to implement a GP check

Hide

[SET]
name: Mixed Rock Polish
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Dragon Pulse
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Mild
evs: 48 Atk / 252 SpA / 144 SpD / 64 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Rock Polish helps boost Primal Groudon's otherwise average Speed to a point where it can outspeed almost the entire unboosted metagame.
* Fire Blast is Primal Groudon's main Fire-type STAB and its best Fire-type move, and its ability to always 2HKO, (RC) or potentially OHKO Arceus-Ground after some chip damage, (RC) makes it this the only Groudon set that can reliably power through Arceus-Ground, although Arceus-Ground can KO Primal Groudon with Judgment after some chip damage.
* Precipice Blades is Groudon's Ground-type STAB move and what it uses to break through special walls, such as Blissey and Kyogre.
* Hidden Power Ice 2HKOes a full-HP Zygarde-C, as well as OHKOing Mega Salamence and Rayquaza.
* Dragon Pulse is an alternative to Hidden Power Ice to hit more Dragon-types, mainly Giratina-O, and not specifically those with a secondary Ground or Flying typing, although it can't OHKO Mega Salamence or Rayquaza without Stealth Rock.
* Solar Beam may be used over Hidden Power Ice as well for Arceus-Water, Arceus-Ground, and Primal Kyogre while harsh sunlight is still active, although this forces you to remove sacrifice coverage on Dragon-types, (RC) and allows Mega Salamence to set up on Groudon. Furthermore, it is very risky if your opponent has a Primal Kyogre or Rayquaza, as they can easily trap it into Solar Beam, (RC) simply by switching in. (AP)

Set Details
========

* Running 56 Speed EVs lets Groudon outspeed base 90 Base Speed Choice Scarf users and an unboosted Pheromosa after a Rock Polish boost.
* 144 Special Defense EVs let Primal Groudon survive a +2 Focus Blast from Xerneas and a Judgment from Arceus-Ground.
* The rest of the EVs, as well as a Mild nature, are put into Attack and Special Attack along with a Mild nature to help give Primal Groudon more firepower.
* It is also good to note that with no HP investment and a Mild nature, this Groudon set is particularly weak to priority and very powerful and bulky physical attackers.

Usage Tips
========

* Mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon is particularly good at handling soft checks to Groudon, such as Yveltal, Mega Salamence, and Rayquaza, and it is being able to beat or at least preform perform better than other sets against Pokemon such as Zygarde (-C?) and Arceus-Ground, respectively.
* Rock Polish is best used when forcing a switch, although it can set up on a foe's an opponent's attack if completely necessary due to its natural bulk.
* Be sure to KO or weaken this Groudon's biggest checks: Arceus-Water, Ho-oh, and defensive Primal Kyogre.
* To deal with each of its threats, Primal Groudon can use Precipice Blades to hit Arceus-Water and Primal Kyogre, but it can't weaken Ho-Oh in a any real meaningful way, so to counteract this setting up Stealth Rock with another Pokemon to counteract this is a great idea.
* This set really should not be used to absorb damage, as it is usually needs most of its HP left to sweep.
* Using Precipice Blades early on to try and to bluff a physical set is recommended, as it can potentially lure in physical walls that can be eliminated with Fire Blast or Hidden Power Ice.

Team Options
========

* More offensive Stealth Rock users, such as Dialga, Deoxys-S, and Excadrill, are near mandatory when using this set, as Stealth Rock can weaken Ho-Oh, break Multiscale and Shadow Shield, and weaken any Pokemon switching in.
* Strong, offensive special attackers, such as Lunala, Yveltal, and Mega Salamence, can handle physical tanks for Groudon.
* Ground-immune Pokemon, such as Yveltal, Mega Salamence, and Rayquaza, can cover Groudon's weakness, (AC) and those three all listed above also provide good offensive pressure.
* Xerneas can take care of Dragon-types, such as Arceus-Dragon and Giratina-O, and they can weaken each other's threats quite well.
* Pokemon that deal with Arceus-Water, such as Dialga, Ferrothorn, Mega Gengar, and physical sweepers like Arceus and Mega Lucario, can help cover Groudon's weakness.
* A check to Primal Kyogre, such as Dialga, Palkia, Ferrothorn, or a Primal Kyogre of your own, (AC) is essential, as it stops Primal Groudon in its tracks with ease.

 

[Freeroamer]

You need to edit set details to reflect new spread

 

[Drew]

You need to edit set details to reflect new spread

Implemented

GP 1/1
how to implement a GP check

Hide

[SET]
name: Mixed Rock Polish
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Dragon Pulse
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Mild
evs: 48 Atk / 252 SpA / 144 SpD / 64 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

* Rock Polish helps boost Primal Groudon's otherwise average Speed to a point where it can outspeed almost the entire unboosted metagame.
* Fire Blast is Primal Groudon's main Fire-type STAB and its best Fire-type move, and its ability to always 2HKO, (RC) or potentially OHKO Arceus-Ground after some chip damage, (RC) makes it this the only Groudon set that can reliably power through Arceus-Ground, although Arceus-Ground can KO Primal Groudon with Judgment after some chip damage.
* Precipice Blades is Groudon's Ground-type STAB move and what it uses to break through special walls, such as Blissey and Kyogre.
* Hidden Power Ice 2HKOes a full-HP Zygarde-C, as well as OHKOing Mega Salamence and Rayquaza.
* Dragon Pulse is an alternative to Hidden Power Ice to hit more Dragon-types, mainly Giratina-O, and not specifically those with a secondary Ground or Flying typing, although it can't OHKO Mega Salamence or Rayquaza without Stealth Rock.
* Solar Beam may be used over Hidden Power Ice as well for Arceus-Water, Arceus-Ground, and Primal Kyogre while harsh sunlight is still active, although this forces you to remove sacrifice coverage on Dragon-types, (RC) and allows Mega Salamence to set up on Groudon. Furthermore, it is very risky if your opponent has a Primal Kyogre or Rayquaza, as they can easily trap it into Solar Beam, (RC) simply by switching in. (AP)

Set Details
========

* Running 56 Speed EVs lets Groudon outspeed base 90 Base Speed Choice Scarf users and an unboosted Pheromosa after a Rock Polish boost.
* 144 Special Defense EVs let Primal Groudon survive a +2 Focus Blast from Xerneas and a Judgment from Arceus-Ground.
* The rest of the EVs, as well as a Mild nature, are put into Attack and Special Attack along with a Mild nature to help give Primal Groudon more firepower.
* It is also good to note that with no HP investment and a Mild nature, this Groudon set is particularly weak to priority and very powerful and bulky physical attackers.

Usage Tips
========

* Mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon is particularly good at handling soft checks to Groudon, such as Yveltal, Mega Salamence, and Rayquaza, and it is being able to beat or at least preform perform better than other sets against Pokemon such as Zygarde (-C?) and Arceus-Ground, respectively.
* Rock Polish is best used when forcing a switch, although it can set up on a foe's an opponent's attack if completely necessary due to its natural bulk.
* Be sure to KO or weaken this Groudon's biggest checks: Arceus-Water, Ho-oh, and defensive Primal Kyogre.
* To deal with each of its threats, Primal Groudon can use Precipice Blades to hit Arceus-Water and Primal Kyogre, but it can't weaken Ho-Oh in a any real meaningful way, so to counteract this setting up Stealth Rock with another Pokemon to counteract this is a great idea.
* This set really should not be used to absorb damage, as it is usually needs most of its HP left to sweep.
* Using Precipice Blades early on to try and to bluff a physical set is recommended, as it can potentially lure in physical walls that can be eliminated with Fire Blast or Hidden Power Ice.

Team Options
========

* More offensive Stealth Rock users, such as Dialga, Deoxys-S, and Excadrill, are near mandatory when using this set, as Stealth Rock can weaken Ho-Oh, break Multiscale and Shadow Shield, and weaken any Pokemon switching in.
* Strong, offensive special attackers, such as Lunala, Yveltal, and Mega Salamence, can handle physical tanks for Groudon.
* Ground-immune Pokemon, such as Yveltal, Mega Salamence, and Rayquaza, can cover Groudon's weakness, (AC) and those three all listed above also provide good offensive pressure.
* Xerneas can take care of Dragon-types, such as Arceus-Dragon and Giratina-O, and they can weaken each other's threats quite well.
* Pokemon that deal with Arceus-Water, such as Dialga, Ferrothorn, Mega Gengar, and physical sweepers like Arceus and Mega Lucario, can help cover Groudon's weakness.
* A check to Primal Kyogre, such as Dialga, Palkia, Ferrothorn, or a Primal Kyogre of your own, (AC) is essential, as it stops Primal Groudon in its tracks with ease.

Implemented and ready to be uploaded

 

[Nayrz]

This is uploaded, but Drew can you remove all the blue text before i move it to the uploaded section? Thankfully the dex doesn't appear to take blue text or id be in for a ride.

 

[Drew]

Fixed sorry about that I didn't even realize