NU Primeape

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
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angry monkey

Overview
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Primeape is a very powerful Fighting-type, due to its strong base 105 Attack and 95 Speed. It has a very good ability in Defiant, which deters the opponent from using Defog and also punishes Intimidate users. In addition, it has a fairly diverse move pool, with coverage options such as Ice Punch, Stone Edge, Earthquake, and Gunk Shot. However, unlike other Fighting-types, it does not have access to Knock Off and is forced to use the weaker Punishment to hit Ghost-types. Primeape's main flaw is its frail defenses, which can be taken advantage of through drops from its main STAB move, Close Combat. Overall, Primeape could be a large threat if used to its full potential.

Offensive Support
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name: Offensive Support
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: U-turn
move 3: Ice Punch / Gunk Shot
move 4: Encore
ability: Defiant
item: Black Belt / Expert Belt
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========

Close Combat boasts a high Base Power of 120, and is boosted by STAB, however, the defense drops are very detrimental. U-turn is a good coverage move that hits Psychic- and Grass-types, as well as gaining momentum and escaping from unfavorable situations. Ice Punch provides very good coverage alongside Close Combat, as it hits bulky Grass- and Flying-types such as Vileplume, Scyther, and Togetic for super effective damage. Gunk Shot can be used with Expert Belt to deal more damage to Fairy-types, scoring an OHKO on standard Granbull after Stealth Rock damage. Encore locks defensive Pokemon into moves like Stealth Rock or Wish, and cripples them for three turns. It can also lock slower sweepers into unfavorable moves, but that is a less common situation.

Set Details
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The EVs are fairly simple; maximized Attack and Speed investment is used to hit as hard as possible and to capitalize on Primeape's good 95 base Speed. Black Belt and Expert Belt act as a bluff for a choice item; the former increases the power of Primeape's main attack, Close Combat, and the latter pumps up the power of all its moves. Defiant is the preferred ability for this set as it can punish Intimidate users, such as Granbull, for switching in on its attacks and also take advantage of Defog.

Usage Tips
========

This set works best as a bluff for either of the Choice item sets, but don't worry about revealing it early on, as using Encore on a defensive Pokemon and locking them into an unfavorable move such as hazards or Heal Bell is always helpful. However, be sure not to lock your opponent into Spikes, as that will only hinder your team and not help. Once you have successfully locked the opponent into an unfavorable move, be sure to take advantage of it by switching into other hard hitters or setup sweepers. Also, if you manage to switch into a Defog and get a Defiant boost, it is best to encore them into Defog in the event that they stay in, in order to get yet another massive boost to punch holes in the opposing team or sweep.

Team Options
========

Powerful wall breakers and setup sweepers that can take advantage of the free switches Primeape creates with Encore are good teammates. These include Feraligatr, Gurdurr, Kangaskhan, and many others. Partners that can handle Ghost-types such as Mismagius and Rotom are needed, as neither are 2HKOd by this sets coverage moves. Examples include Fairy-types, such as Slurpuff and Granbull, but they must be wary of switching into Will-O-Wisp. Hazard support from Pokemon such as Seismitoad, Qwilfish, and Rhydon are important for Primeape because it is not strong enough to score some OHKOs or 2HKOs. For example, this set needs Stealth Rocks up in order to guarantee a 2HKO on physically defensive Seismitoad with Close Combat. Also, with hazard support and an Expert Belt, Primeape can OHKO defensive Granbull with Gunk Shot.

Choice Band
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name: Choice Band
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: U-Turn
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Gunk Shot / Earthquake
ability: Defiant
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========

Close Combat is a very powerful STAB attack with high Base Power, but the defense drops that result from it are very detrimental. U-turn is a helpful coverage move that recovers momentum from bad situations, and hits Psychic-types for super effective damage. Ice Punch provides very good coverage alongside Close Combat, smacking Grass- and Flying-types such as Vileplume and Scyther on predicted switches. Gunk Shot is the preferred choice for the last slot, as it scores an OHKO on standard Granbull after a Defiant boost, and 2HKOes Tangela. However, Earthquake is a viable option to hit Poison-types such as Qwilfish, Muk, and Garbodor harder than any of its other moves. Alternatively, Stone Edge can be used to hit Flying- and Bug-types such as Accelgor, Mantine, Pelipper, and Scyther super effectively. Lastly, you can opt for Punishment in the last slot for a fairly reliable way to hit Ghost-types and to deal massive amounts of damage to setup sweepers.

Set Details
========

The EVs on this are very straightforward; maximum Attack and Speed is used to hit as hard as possible. Defiant is the chosen ability for this set, as it allows Primeape to gain a boost from Intimidate and Defog users. A Jolly nature is used to outspeed all of the defensive Pokemon in the tier, as well as many offensive Pokemon such as Leavanny, Chatot, and Zangoose.

Usage Tips
========

You should use U-turn early-game to keep momentum or to get out of unfavorable situations. However, don't be afraid to spam Close Combat, as it will OHKO or 2HKO most targets that are hit for at least neutral damage. Try to nail Pokemon that are weak to Ice Punch such as Vileplume and Dragalge on predicted switches, or Fairy-types such as Granbull with Gunk Shot.

Team Options
========

Hazard support is very helpful for this set, as it turns many 2HKOs into OHKOs; for example after Stealth Rock damage Qwilfish is 2HKOed by Close Combat, and Muk is OHKOed with Earthquake. In order to eliminate Ghost-types, a Pursuit trapper such as Liepard or Pawniard is helpful, because Mismagius and Rotom are a nuisance for Primeape since it does not have access to Knock Off. In addition, late-game cleaners appreciate Primeape's ability to easily break down walls. Some sweepers that fit this role are Feraligatr, Mismagius, Slurpuff, and many others.

Choice Scarf
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name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: U-turn
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Stone Edge / Earthquake
ability: Defiant
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========

Close Combat is a very powerful STAB move with a high Base Power, but the defense drops allow Primeape to be revenge killed easily. U-turn is good to use early-game, as it maintains offensive mometum and can get Primeape out of unfavorable situations. Ice Punch provides great coverage alongside Close Combat, as it hits Grass-, Dragon-, and Flying-types, such as Vileplume, Dragalge, Scyther, and Tangela. Stone Edge deals large amounts of damage to Bug-and Flying-types that are not hit super effectively by Ice Punch, such as Accelgor, Mantine, and Pelipper. Earthquake is an option for bulky Poison-types such as Muk, Qwilfish, and Garbodor. Punishment can be used in the last slot to capitalize on Choice Scarf Primeape's ability to revenge kill threats, notably boosting sweepers such as Mismagius and Mesprit.

Set Details
========

The EVs for this set are straightforward; maximum Attack and Speed investment allows Primeape to hit as hard as possible. Defiant is the chosen ability for this set, as it allows Primeape to gain a free boost from Defog and Intimidate users. A Jolly nature is used to outspeed all positive natured max Speed base 90 Pokemon at +1 Speed and everything slower.

Usage Tips
========

Primeape works best as a scout early-game with U-turn. When needed, use Close Combat to revenge kill a foe or to hit a target for super effective damage. Try to nail Pokemon weak to Ice Punch such as Vileplume or Dragalge on the switch with, or Flying-types such as Scyther with Stone Edge. Choice Scarf Primeape works very well against Sticky Web teams, as it will deter the opponent from setting up Sticky Web and giving Primeape a Defiant boost. Even with the Speed drop, Primeape can outspeed common Sticky Web team Pokemon such as Zangoose.

Team Options
========

Good teammates for Primeape include strong special or mixed attackers, such as Magmortar, Electivire, Mismagius, and Mesprit, that can break down or weaken walls, so Primeape has an easier time late-game. This support is important due to the fact that, without a boosting item like the previous sets, Choice Scarf Primeape is significantly weaker. A Dark-type Pokemon such as Liepard or Pawniard can help trap or defeat Ghost-types, which are troublesome for Primeape. Volt Switch users such as Probopass or Rotom can create a Volt-Turn core to keep offensive momentum, and the former can also provide Stealth Rock support.


Other Options
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Primeape has a fair amount of other support moves to utilize. These include Final Gambit, which deals massive damage to one Pokemon while sacrificing itself; Endeavor, which can weaken a foe for revenge killing; Focus Energy, which works alongside the less accurate Cross Chop; and Taunt, used to stop walls from using their non attacking moves. Night Slash can be used instead of Punishment, but stopping setup sweepers in their tracks is generally more useful. Seed Bomb is an option that leaves a huge dent in Rhydon and Seismitoad, but it is fairly situational. Facade can be used to ignore the Attack drop from burn, but it provides no extra coverage. Life Orb can be used over Expert Belt on the Encore set, but it defeats the purpose of bluffing a Choice item. Lastly, Vital Spirit is an option on the Choice Scarf set so Primape can ignore sleep-inducing moves from Pokemon such as Jynx, Vileplume, Vivillon, and others.

Checks & Counters
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**Ghost types**: Due to Primeape's inability to use Knock Off or a reliable Dark-type attack, it usually has no way to hit Ghost-types, such as Mismagius and Rotom, for decent damage. The best it can do it U-turn out of the situation to avoid being burned.

**Faster Attackers**: Faster attackers such Archeops, Mismagius, Sceptile, Tauros, and Choice Scarf users, such as Mesprit and Rotom, can all KO Primeape when it is not holding Choice Scarf. However, not all Choice Scarf users can outpace Choice Scarf variants of Primeape, but those who can, such as Tauros and Typhlosion, could greatly damage it.

**Bulky Poison- types**: Primeape struggles against bulky Poison-types such as Weezing, Qwilfish, and Muk. However, the latter two have to watch out for Earthquake. Weezing does a good job of walling Primeape exceptionally well.

**Psychic types**: Most Psychic-type Pokemon can easily take a hit from Primeape and KO in return, but will take a decent chunk on the switch from U-turn with proper prediction. Some of these are Uxie, Musharna, and Mesprit. The former two have very respectable physical bulk, so they can shrug off most hits Primeape can throw at them.

**Residual Damage**: Although Primeape resists Stealth Rock damage, it is quickly worn down from other forms of passive damage such as Spikes and Toxic Spikes.

**Status**: Primeape is severely crippled by all forms of status, especially burn, which halves its Attack and renders it useless.

**Priority**: After the Defense drops from Close Combat, Primeape is very susceptible to all forms of priority, such as Sucker Punch and Aqua Jet.
 
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CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
Tempted to make you put the Fist plate set first cause it's so good at bluffing Scarf/Band, but I guess if it became standard it wouldn't be a bluff anymore so idk.
 

Punchshroom

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Gunk Shot should probably be mentioned over Poison Jab on the CB set; it lets Defiant Ape OHKO physically defensive Granbull, and 2HKO Tangela after SR while also interfering with Regenerator with its Poison chance. This is pretty notable on CB Ape as it is primarily a wallbreaker, and gives it a niche over Sawk.
 
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Punchshroom

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Scarf should probably be before Band. That said, I can't say for sure whether Encore should be first.

When talking about Stone Edge, mention how it is pretty much only for Flying-types (and Accelgor I guess); its coverage on Fires is hardly important since Close Combat does loads to them anyway.

Usage Tips for the Encore set should include switching into Defog for a boost, and then Encoring them into Defog for a second Defiant boost (as most Defog users are inclined to stay in since they can wall Primeape). Of course take care to not switch into attacks.

Final Gambit is not good enough to be included in Overview, which would mean Primeape's support movepool is too shallow to be mentioned as well.
 

Punchshroom

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You still have Fire-type targets mentioned for Stone Edge in the CB set. As for the Choice Scarf set, Archeops is not a good replacement for the reasons I have stated for the Fires, how about a Flying-type that actually resists Fighting, like Pelipper or Scyther or something? You could mention that Stone Edge 2HKOes Mismagius while Ice Punch does not.

Also, Earthquake can be slashed alongside Stone Edge in the Choice Scarf set, and even replace Stone Edge in the Choice Band set (CB Ice Punch / Gunk Shot hits most targets hard enough). Earthquake lets Primeape hit Poison-types, particularly Qwilfish which gets nailed hard by Defiant EQ, as well as other Poisons like Garbodor and Muk.

You mention Vital Spirit being useful in the Overview, yet did not include it on any of its sets. Vital Spirit could be slashed behind Defiant on the Choice Scarf set; it can switch into Vivillon's Sleep Powder and Jynx's Lovely Kiss, and use its Scarf to outspeed the former even after a Quiver Dance and not risk a speedtie with the latter.
 

Punchshroom

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Be sure to mention its fraility in Overview, and fix up your formatting for Checks and Counters.
 

Punchshroom

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None of the bulky Waters (bar Pelipper I guess) can deal with Choice Band Primeape easily. Bulky Poison-types (this includes Qwilfish) seem like far better responses to EQ-less Ape, Weezing especially.

In the faster Pokemon section, you did not specify which Pokemon can outspeed Scarf Ape and which ones cannot, and whether they lose to Scarf Ape or not. When you mention Choice Scarf Pokemon, make sure they can outspeed Choice Scarf Ape.

The kind of residual damage you say Ape suffers from is to a far lesser degree than what most other offensive Pokemon take, especially its SR resistance (already a blessing for an offensive Pokemon). Residual damage would only cause Ape problems if it is taking damage every turn (either from status like Zangoose, or recoil attackers).

Ctrl + F: priority, 0 results
Ape's fraility means that a single use of Close Combat means it will take large damage from almost every priority, even Sucker Punch. Stuff like Kangaskhan's Fake Out, Gatr's Aqua Jet, and Gurdurr's Mach Punch can keep Ape in check by forcing it out.
 

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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Under team options for all 3 sets include entry hazards, because Primeape is lacking a little bit on the power department and these help to nab 1-2HKOs
Encore + 3 attacks:
-I think you are referring to the move encore here, "It can also lock in slower sweepers, but that is probably a less common situation." But if you are have it on the same line
-Once again, in team options, include the powerful wallbreakers and set up sweepers on the same line as you mention them on, "These include Feraligatr, Gurdurr, Kangaskhan, and many others."

Choice Scarf:
-Once again in moves regarding stone edge, if you are referring to the same move keep it on the same line, "Also, stone edge will 2HKO mismagius while Ice Punch will not."
-Under moves explain what Punishment does a little better, explain how it gets more powerful against boosting mons and is pretty situational
-Expand Usage tips, include how it can be used as a revenge killer and as a pivot
-Team options, "Switch ins to ghost types, such as spiritomb which walls it completely - these include combusken, liepard, etc." also dont say that spiritomb walls it completely here, thats what C&C is for

Choice Band:
-Expand team options a bit, its quite small right now
 

Punchshroom

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You still did not touch upon Primeape's fraility in the Overview.

I think you mentioned Punishment enough times for it to not be considered OO material. On the other hand, Night Slash looks more situational than Punishment, it could replace Punishment in OO.

You still did not touch the "Faster Pokemon" section at all. Make it clear whether these Pokemon can still beat/outspeed Scarf Ape or not.
 
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Punchshroom

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**Faster Attackers**: These include Archeops, Mismagius, Sceptile, Tauros and choice scarf pokemon such as typhlosion and Rotom that can all KO primeape not holding Choice Scarf. However, not all choice scarf pokemon can outpace choice scarf variants of primeape, but those who can outspeed it and greatly damage primape include tauros, typhlosion, and others.
I finally had to chip in myself. The latter part can probably be phrased better to fit the edited sentence. For example, if there are few "other" Choice Scarf Pokemon that can outspeed Scarf Ape, you don't need to list more examples.

QC 1/3
 
Honestly, I don't even know about Scarf. It's so goddamn weak. At the very least, it should be last.

If it does stay, cut the Vital Spirit slash. Primeape doesn't want to switch into any of the Pokemon you listed.
 

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
  • Hazard support from pokemon such as seismitoad, qwilfish, and phydon are important for primeape because it is not strong enough for some OHKOs or 2HKOs.
Mention specific ohkos and 2hkos if you're gonna mention them at all.

  • Strong special attackers that appreciate special walls being broken down such as lickilicky and audino
  • Hazards are very helpful as they aid in primeapes respectable power when equipped with a choice band, as it will turn many 2HKOs into OHKOs.
The first line makes it sound like Licky and Audino are the strong special attackers. Re-word?
for the second line, once again, mention specific ones or don't mention it :]

Agreeing with Hollywood that scarf is shit weak and should be last.

The CC section is a bit wonky in places and could also use rewording - but most of the key info is there.


Tag me when implemented :]
 

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
Either you're still editing / it hasn't updated, or you completely removed the scarf set and didn't reword the line about audino??
 

Punchshroom

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Since none of the sets use Vital Spirit and the Scarf set is being moved back (and possibly cut), you don't need to mention Vital Spirit in the Overview anymore.
 

Ares

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Personally I think scarf should stay as the last set as it isnt terrible and is one of the first sets that pops into my head when thinking about primeape. Definetely mention how weak it is in write up and how its used as a revenge killer or a pivot coming in and out with U-turn. Also important to note that with Scarf against web teams primeape can come in at +2 and isnt going to be outsped by things like zangoose or other wall breakers commonly on web teams. That is actually where scarf is better than the other sets imo.
 
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boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
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Personally I think scarf should stay as the last set as it isnt terrible and is one of the first sets that pops into my head when thinking about primeape. Definetely mention how weak it is in right up and how its used as a revenge killer or a pivot coming in and out with U-turn. Also important to note that with Scarf against web teams primeape can come in at +2 and isnt going to be outsped by things like zangoose or other wall breakers commonly on web teams. That is actually where scarf is better than the other sets imo.
Cool, thanks. I'll add what you mentioned and I will keep the set unless I'm strongly told otherwise.
 

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