1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Priority In Ubers (Analysis) [GP 0/2]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by fidgety, Oct 29, 2011.

  1. fidgety

    fidgety

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    170
    Introduction

    Priority in Ubers is a hugely influential factor in team building, as much or even more so than in any other tier. This is due to the presence of Extreme Killer Arceus and Swords Dance Rayquaza which are even better than ever with the improved +2 Priority ExtremeSpeed. On top of this Arceus has the ability to be fully EVed despite the fact that it is obtained at level 100 thanks to the Feathers. Other priority users in the Uber tier are Thundurus and its priority Thunder Wave, Taunt, and Substitute; Giratina-O with its solid Dual STABs, Ghost typing, and bulk; and a number of other lesser options. Priority abuse is not a strategy that should be overlooked, able to blow through any lesser team and even give some of the best built teams serious issues (particularly offensive who rely on speed). That is not to say that stall is unaffected--the sheer power of some priority abusers can shake up stall as well.


    The Sweepers


    Extreme Killer Arceus

    [​IMG]

    Stats:

    HP: 120
    Atk: 120
    Def: 120
    SpA: 120
    SpD: 120
    Spe: 120

    EVs:

    Max Attack generally Adamant, 132 Speed to beat the base 90s; 176 Speed to beat the 95s; 212 to beat the base 100s; 232 Speed to beat Garchomp, 176 Jolly to beat the base 110s, and 184 Jolly to beat Thundurus/Tornados (though they take enough from ExtremeSpeed that generally it isn't worth it), then put the remainder in HP.

    Moves:

    • Swords Dance
    • ExtremeSpeed
    • Earthquake
    • Shadow Claw
    • Fire Blast / Overheat
    • Brick Break
    • Recover
    • Substitute
    Swords Dance allows Arceus to attain +2 Attack, ExtremeSpeed is a solid STAB Attack, Earthquake + Shadow Claw is perfect coverage bar Skarmory though for those of you who really think it is worth it Brick Break can be used over Earthquake as to attain perfect coverage though with 25 less base power. Fire Blast/Overheat Allow Arceus to beat Steels like Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Scizor, and the odd Bronzong more easily than any other option and are great when paired with Swords Dance Rayquaza. Substitute allows for Status Defense and Recover allows for reliable HP recovery.

    Items:

    • Leftovers
    • Life Orb
    • Silk Scarf
    • Lum Berry
    Leftovers are the main option as to further Arceus' bulk, Life Orb powers up all of Arceus' moves by 30% at the cost of 10% recoil every round while Silk Scarf Doesn't have the Recoil but only Powers up Extremespeed and by 20% instead, Lum Berry allows it to recover from Status once.

    Sample Set:

    Arceus @ Leftovers / Life Orb / Lum Berry
    Ability: Multitype
    EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Swords Dance
    - Shadow Claw / Fire Blast
    - Earthquake / Brick Break

    Summary:

    Extremely strong, Arceus's Speed stat allows for immense versatility in EVing as was demonstrated as well as plenty of power. Both of these are the case --Arceus's EV limit was lifted because of BW items. All this and STAB ExtremeSpeed make Arceus arguably the best priority sweeper in all of Ubers. Four different Items choices that all provide good results, nine Different Moves different moves that give it numerous accomplished roles, and Stats that are befitting of the god of all Pokemon --base 120 across the board-- make it outright amazing. No wonder that on both the PO and Smogon servers it is constantly top 5. It partners with so many different Pokemon in the tier so well and it has a movepool such that it can fit nearly any team with fairly little effort.

    Checks/Counters:

    [​IMG]Physically Defensive Groudon - This is the one of the main choices of defensive teams to keep Arceus in check, as with Leftovers Groudon is only 3HKOed by +2 ExtremeSpeed, and it can Roar Arceus out or do good damage with Earthquake.

    [​IMG]Giratina-A: Giratina's Will-O-Wisp neuters all non-Lum Berry variants of the Extreme Killer. Such variants are a bit more trouble.

    [​IMG]Ghost and Steel Arceus - These are about as effective as Girantina, though they have less bulk.Though Arceus-Steel needs to watch for Earthquake.

    [​IMG]Lugia - Reflect and Recover or Roost and Toxic can stall Arceus out. In Dream World, Multi-Scale is a huge help.

    [​IMG]Cresselia - Reflect, Moonlight, and Toxic will stall Arceus out since Cresselia is amazingly bulky. Though, Moonlight has only 8 Power Points as opposed to the 16 of Recover, and it is not very good under rain or sand, as it only heals 33% as opposed to 50%. However, under sun it heals 66%--in other words, Moonlight is unreliable.

    [​IMG]Skarmory - If Arceus doesn't have a Fire-type move Skarmory walls it all day and can phaze it with Whirlwind, while regaining Health with Roost.

    [​IMG]Bronzong - Bronzong resists ExtremeSpeed, is neutral to Brick Break, and is immune to Earthqake. It can deal decent damage back with Gyro Ball, making it a decent check to any set without Overheat / Fire Blast.

    [​IMG]Choice Scarf Dialga / [​IMG] Terrakion (Scarf may or may not be necessary based on number of Speed EVs on Arceus) - They resist ExtremeSpeed and hit back hard with Draco Meteor or Close Combat respectively.


    Swords Dance Rayquaza

    [​IMG]

    STATS:

    HP - 105
    Atk - 150
    Def - 90
    SpA - 150
    SpD - 90
    Spe - 95

    EVs:

    Max Attack generally 216 Speed Jolly to beat the base 90s remainder (aka 40) into HP.

    Moves:

    • Swords Dance
    • ExtremeSpeed
    • Outrage/Dragon Claw
    • Earthquake
    • Fire Blast/Overheat
    Outrage versus Dragon Claw comes down to weather or not you want a lot of power or a way to avoid getting trapped by steels, Earthquake or Fire Blast / Overheat depends on whether or not you are worried about Arceus-Steel / Dialga / Arceus-Rock / Tyranitar / Jirachi vs. Ferrothorn / Scizor / Forretress / Skarmory / Bronong, and ExtremeSpeed allows you to outrun faster threats that could otherwise beat you, Swords Dance is again for Attack boosts.

    Items:

    • Life Orb
    • Leftovers
    Life Orb just because this guy loves the extra power, but Leftovers is an option nonetheless for extra bulk.

    Sample Set:

    Rayquaza @ Life Orb / Leftovers
    Ability: Air Lock
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Swords Dance
    - Outrage / Dragon Claw
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Earthquake / Overheat

    Summary:

    Rayquaza is the other priority sweeper that dominates the Uber tier. Individually Rayquaza and Arceus are dangerous together they are out and out devastating. carrying two sweepers that are similar is a deadly strategy in Ubers, since most teams are not fit to handle both. In this case, having two physical attackers will wear down the opponent, especially since Rayquaza and Arceus both use a +2 priority move. While Rayquaza isn't the same Pokemon it was last generation, the Swords Dance variant is not bad. No, in fact it is only outclassed by the faster and bulkier Arceus, causing people to use Dragon Dance and Mixquaza sets instead. While more often than not Arceus is the favored priority user, Rayquaza's Swords Dance set is still viable for two reasons. The first is that Arceus is ruined by physically defensive Giratina-A, only able to deal 40-47% with a +2 Adamant Shadow Claw. However, Rayquaza plows through it effortlessly thanks to its Dragon-type STAB. The second reason to use Rayquaza over Arceus is ironically Arceus's greatest strength: its versatility. That is, if your team has to use another variant of Arceus to fill a role, you can use Rayquaza to be your quasi-Extreme Killer. While Swords Dance Rayquaza undeniably faded in the generation shift, it is still a force to be reckoned with and shouldn't be discarded in preparing a team.

    Checks/Counters:

    A lot of what stops Extreme Killer Arceus also stops Rayquaza.

    Exceptions: Giratina-A dies to a +2 Life Orb Dragon Claw, and if Rayquaza uses Outrage an item boost isn't needed. Unfortunately for Steel Arceus, Earthquake is a bit more common and powerful on Swords Dance Rayquaza than it is on Arceus. Terrakion must use Stone Edge to KO Rayquaza, and Lugia and Cresselia will threaten the Dragon with Ice Beam, unlike if it were Arceus.

    [​IMG]Jirachi - Can 1HKO Ray with Ice Punch and resists Dragon Claw / Outrage and ExtremeSpeed.

    [​IMG]Palkia - Spacial Rend/Draco Meteor both 1HKO, but ExtremeSpeed hurts it a lot.

    [​IMG]Garchomp - See Palkia, but change Spacial Rend / Draco Meteor to Dragon Claw / Outrage.


    Giratina-O

    [​IMG]

    STATS:

    HP - 150
    Atk - 120
    Def - 100
    SpA - 120
    SpD - 100
    Spe - 90

    EVs:

    Giratina's Shadow Sneak does not focus on power like Arceus's and Rayquaza's ExtremeSpeed do. Since Giratina has base 90 Speed, it would be wiser to balance power and bulk. However, investing in Speed is an option for its surprise value.


    Moves:

    • Outrage / Dragon Claw
    • Dragon Tail
    • Shadow Ball
    • Shadow Sneak
    • Hidden Power Fire
    • Draco Meteor
    • Earthquake
    • Aura Sphere

    Draco Meteor is the strongest Dragon move in the game, though it comes with a drawback of lower the user's Special Attack by two stages. Hidden Power Fire is for Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, and Excadrill, among others. Shadow Sneak is priority, and Shadow Ball is a special Ghost-type move. Dragon Tail is for phazing, and just gives your opponent a hard time getting their check or counter in. Outrage / Dragon Claw is a physical Dragon STAB, generally to be used in place of Dragon Tail. However, with all the power from Draco Meteor the lower power of Dragon Tail isn't too much to fret about.

    Item:

    • Griseous Orb
    You may notice that the only item listed here is Giratina's trademark item, the Griseous Orb, which powers up the Base Power of Giratina's Ghost-type and Dragon-type moves by 20%. This is also the only item Giratina can hold to be in its Origin forme. However, it is a shame that it can't use Leftovers to regain HP nor Life Orb to power up its moves.

    Sample Set:

    Giratina @ Griseous Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 Atk / 252 SAtk / 8 Spe
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SpD)
    Draco Meteor
    Shadow Sneak
    Dragon Tail / Outrage
    Hidden Power Fire / Aura Sphere

    Summary:

    Considered the best spinblocker / Trick absorber in Ubers history, the entire reason it has carried HP Fire since it started to see use in Generation 4 is because it handled Forretress better than any other viable ghost type. In Heart Gold/Soul Silver it picked up a new toy known as Shadow Sneak a Physical Ghost move with +1 priority this took it into if I recall correctly the top 10-15 in the Uber tier, this thing will always have an impact on the Ubers tier and a strong one at that. It is generally seen as a Mixed Attacker as sampled above, the main Reason to use it over all the other options for an Uber Mixed Attacker is for it's immunity to Trick, it's Ability to Spin Block, it's access to priority in the form of Shadow Sneak, and it's solid natural Bulk.

    Checks/Counters:

    [​IMG]Lugia/[​IMG]Cresselia - Can take most anything Giratina can send their way and chip it down with Ice Beam.

    [​IMG]Arceus-Steel - Resists everything Giratina commonly has bar HP Fire and doesn't take enough from that for a 2HKO.
    [​IMG]Heatran - If it is lacking Aura Sphere and Earthquake Giratina can't do much if anything and takes major damage from Dragon Pulse.

    [​IMG]Tyranitar (Specially Defensive) - Come in on a special move and threaten with Crunch/Pursuit.

    [​IMG]Jirachi (Specially Defensive) - come in on a Dragon move other than Dragon Tail threaten with Iron Head or Ice Punch or just sit on it and take little to nothing from all common Attacks.

    Power house Dragons have no issues checking it though Dialga does it best due to its Ghost resist.


    Honorable Mentions - Offensive

    [​IMG]Deoxys-A - 180/180/150 Offenses/Speed with that Movepool are unrivaled, but it can't take a real hit to save it's life.

    [​IMG]Other Arceus forms - While having the alternate STAB is nice it misses the versatility in the item department and the STAB on ExtremeSpeed.

    [​IMG]Scizor - Swords Dance/Choice Band Technician Bullet Punch is powerful it doesn't have the same impact and power as it does in OU.

    [​IMG]Weavile - It can sweep with Swords Dance using Ice Shard to beat faster or speed boosted Dragons though it isn't as good as it was last gen.

    [​IMG]Mamoswine - While it can necessarily sweep it is a decent user of choice band due to Earthquake, Stone Edge, Ice Shard, Icicle Crash, and Superpower, though like Weavile its out of its prime.

    [​IMG]Tornados - +1 priority Bulk Up would be interesting but not enough bulk or resources to really pull it off.

    [​IMG]Lucario - Great Typing combined with, Swords Dance, nice offensive movepool including things like Crunch; Ice Punch; Close Combat; and ExtremeSpeed, However 110 Attack/90 Speed isn't doing it many favors nor is its lackluster bulk.

    [​IMG]Dragonite – Well another Dragon-Flying Type while at first glance it is horribly outclassed by Rayqyuaza especially seeing as it lacks Swords Dance, however it has one distinct advantage and that is Multiscale which is Dragonite’s Dream World Ability which halves damage from any Attack so long as Dragonite is at full Health. This gives it a niche as a Band poke that Rayquaza doesn’t fill as well due to not having in essence a free hit to it though Dragonite has 16 fewer Base Attack points.

    [​IMG]Rayquaza - With the release of V-Create, Choice Band is a solid option allowing Rayquaza to Power through its usual Checks including but nbot limited to Lugia, Ghost/Steelceus, and Groudon with a Max Attack Jolly Band Outrage or V-Create, while beating on Faster Threats with Extremespeed, and using Earthquake to get past Dialga and the odd Heatran. DO NOT CONSIDER V-CREATE ON SWORDS DANCE RAYQUAZA, THE SPEED DROP CAN AND WILL KILL YOUR SWEEP.


    The Supporters


    Thundurus

    [​IMG]

    STATS:

    HP - 79
    Atk - 115
    Def - 70
    SpA - 125
    SpD - 80
    Spe - 111

    EVs:

    This guy really doesn't have much in the way of bulk so go all out on Speed and the Special Attack (the only time you will use the Physical Attack stat is on a mixed set using Hammer Arm to Bait and Defeat Chansey/Blissey).

    Moves:

    • Thunderbolt / Thunder
    • Hidden Power Ice
    • Focus Blast
    • +1 priority Thunder Wave
    • +1 priority Taunt
    • +1 priority Substitute
    • Volt Switch
    • Grass Knot
    • Nasty Plot (has +1 priority but as it doesn't effect the opponent's Pokemon nor does it boost Thundurus' Defenses/restore its HP/status it's priority is completely irrelevant)
    • Hammer Arm
    The first thing that you will notice is that for a poke with little bulk I'm putting a fair bit of emphasis on it's support moves that is for the likely few if not none of you that don't know it has the new ability Prankster giving it's support moves +1 priority namely Thunder Wave (to paralyze opposing threats), Taunt (to stop opposing support moves), and Substitute but it has a very nice offensive movepool as well with Nasty Plot (+2 SAtk anyone), Volt Change (scouting), Hammer Arm (beat Chansey/Blissey on a mixed Set), Thunderbolt/Thunder (main STAB (Thunder is really only if used with Ogre)), Focus Blast (to beat Steels), HP Ice (Beat all those Dragons running around), and Grass Knot (beat Groudon mainly).

    Items:

    • Life Orb
    • Leftovers
    • Lum Berry
    • Focus Sash
    This thing has Wants Life Orb for the Extra Power unless it is running NP without Substitute, however Either Way Lefties and Lum Berry are options to help its Longevity with either an option for passive HP recovery or 1 time Status recovery, Focus Sash can be used for an Anti-Lead Set of sorts though there are generally other better options for that kind of thing.

    Sample Set:

    Thundurus @ Life Orb / Leftovers / Lum Berry
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt / Thunder
    - Focus Blast / Hammer Arm
    - Hidden Power Ice / Thunder Wave
    - Thunder Wave / Taunt

    Summary:

    This thing was an absolute beast in OU however despite it's Stats seeming fairly average bar its Speed for an Uber, it is still a solid force though not what the other 3 are. Despite the rough tier it is a good supporter and can maintain offensive momentum which is very nice. Thunder Wave is not only good for crippling opposing teams, but seeing as it has +1 priority it does mean that Thundurus has a 25% chance of surviving using it to stop an opposing sweeper from destroying your team, that is probably the single biggest draw Thundurus has. All in all much more than it first appears to be and should not be ignored while building your Team.

    Checks/Counters:

    [​IMG]Blissey/[​IMG]Evolite Chansey - Duh, so long as it isn't running Taunt/Focus Blast + NP or is a Hammer Arm variant these two can stall for LO + Toxic damage all day.

    Fast power hitters - If it can get past 353 speed it will more than likely take care of Thundurus though watch out for T-Wave.

    [​IMG]Scarf-Chomp - Outrage and Dragon Claw dispose of it and is immune to the Electric moves.

    [​IMG]Ground-Arceus - Immune to T-wave and T-bolt/Thunder/Volt Change outspeeds, 1HKOs easy with Edge.


    Honorable Mentions - Supportive

    [​IMG]Whimsitott - Huge support movepool but poor bulk, however Sub-Seed is Annoying as heck agains Stall teams with T-Spikes Support, Offesive Teams handle it better as it was a harder time holding its subs or in many cases even getting them with the power Level of the Tier, though Scizor is arguably the best pokemon for Stopping it as it Can U-Turn out and leave it with no Sub and no Seeds against another power hitter.
    [​IMG]Sableye - Perfectly tuned movepool including Will-O-Wisp , Recover, Swagger+Foul Play, Taunt, Substitute, and torment and typing for abusing prankster however it's Defenses (50/75/65) and general lack of resists give it issues.

    [​IMG] Tornados - While it may seem largely outclassed by Thundurus due to Thundurus's mostly superior movepool it has one noticable team support option in Tailwind three turns of automatic Double speed, this strategy is generally best suited for Multi-Pokemon battles it is still a singles possibility.


    Dream World

    These None of these Pokemon have any direct benefit from the Dream World that is not already Available, However there are things that do effect them. the most notable thing in DW that can impact these Pokemon is Shadow Tag Chandelure as it can trap and beat any of these bar Giratina-O and technically Thundurus as the former has Shadow Sneak and the Latter Priority Thunder Wave. Other things Include Genescect and that migraine Ditto, the former Has Steel Typing + Ice Beam which is Super Effective against 3 of the four major priority abusers and has STAB Bug Buzz for Arceus who takes neutral damage from Ice Beam, while the latter becomes whatever Pokemon is on the field with 50% more speed thanks to a Scarf though it loses to Thundurus due to Priority Thunder Wave.


    Sample Teams

    Well here are a couple teams that do a good job of Abusing Priority figured having them here for further reference would be a good idea (take note they would have pictures a Number of pictures (the second has none ATM) but many are gone due to issue with the images used and I haven't had a real Chance to take care of them yet).

    Uber Attack

    Team Ninja
  2. fidgety

    fidgety

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    170
    Thread Changes/Updates

    OK, I've mad a few Small changes to the Honorable Mentions sections, almost completely changed Whimsicott as to Highlight its merits more, altered Nite's Slightly, Spelled out Swords dance/Choice Band in Scizor's as opposed to SD/Band as it was and Added needed caps to Deoxs-A/Weavile/Mamoswine.

    Added A General Dream World Section at the end, Polished the intro, and made several smaller changes throughout.

    Improved Arceus's Summary and altered some of the descriptions for a couple of the Checks/Counters.

    Improved Rayquaza and Giratina-O's Summary Portions I may do Thundurus Later.

    Polished Thundurus' Summary and made a couple smaller edits.

    Added V0x's suggestion's thus far.

    Added the next couple changes V0x suggested as well as running through this myself a making more changes of my own innitiative.
  3. Lemonade.

    Lemonade. fluffy bird
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,967
    I'm not an expert, but I'll try to have some comments about your material while GPing

    ExtremeSpeed

    alright, some notes

    -The huge rewrites keep most of your sentences--I just improved the flow (ie cut sentences out of it)
    -a lot of the content seems very analysis-esq: you seem to focus on the main moves of each Pokemon, rather than the priority moves themselves (as in you talk about a priority move but go over the Pokemon instead). IDK how this affects anything, but just a note.

    Show Hide

    OK, Priority in Ubers is a hugely influential factor in team building,[comma] as much so or even more so than in any other tier. This is due to the presence of Extremespeed-Killer Extreme Killer Arceus and Swords Dance Rayquaza, which who are even better than Ever ever with the improved +2 priority ExtremeSpeed. Mechanic change giving Extremespeed +2 Priority as opposed to the simple +1 it had last Generation, On top of this Arceus has also gotten the ability to be fully EVed despite the fact that it is obtained at level 100 thanks to the Feathers. Other Priority priority users in the ubers uber tier are Thundurus and it's its priority Thunder Wave, Taunt, and Substitute,;[semicolon] Giratina-O with its solid Dual STABs, Ghost typing Typing, and bulk,;[semicolon] and a number of other lesser options. Priority abuse Abuse is not a strategy that should be overlooked--[emdash]able to blow through any lesser team,[comma] and even give some of the best built teams serious issues (particularly offensive ones that rely on Speed). That's not to say stall is unaffected--the sheer power of some priority abusers can shake up stall as well. who don't like having the Speed tiers put so far off balance, though due to the sheer power of some of the best priority abusers Stall teams can get quite shaken up as well.




    THE SWEEPERS




    EXTREMESPEED-KILLER ARCEUS




    [​IMG]
    Stats:

    HP: 120
    Atk: 120
    Def: 120
    SpA: 120
    SpD: 120
    Spe: 120

    EVs:

    Max Attack generally Adamant, 132 Speed to beat the base 90s; 176 Speed to beat the 95s; 212 to beat the base 100s; 232 Speed to beat Garchomp, 176 Jolly to beat the base 110s, and 184 Jolly to beat Thundurus / Tornados spaces between slashes (though they take enough from ExtremeSpeed that generally it isn't worth it), then put the remainder in HP.

    Moves:

    • Swords Dance
    • ExtremeSpeed
    • Earthquake
    • Shadow Claw
    • Fire Blast / Overheat add spaces to slash
    • Brick Break
    • Recover
    • Substitute
    Swords Dance allows Arceus to Attain attain +2 Attack, ExtremeSpeed is a solid STAB Attack, and Earthquake + Shadow Claw is perfect coverage bar Skarmory.[period] though However, for those of you who really think it is worth it,[comma] Brick Break can be used over Earthquake as to attain perfect coverage,[comma] though with 25 less base power. Fire Blast / Overheat spaces Allow allows Arceus to beat Steels Steel-types such as like Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Scizor, and the odd Bronzong more easilly easily than any other option; such Fire-type moves and are great when paired with Swords Dance Rayquaza. Substitute blocks status, and Recover allows for Status Defense and Recover allows for reliable HP recovery.

    Items:

    • Leftovers
    • Life Orb
    • Silk Scarf
    • Lum Berry
    Leftovers are the main option as to further Arceus's[add s] bulk, and Life Orb powers up all of Arceus's[add s] moves by 30% at the cost of 10% recoil every round.[period] while Silk Scarf Doesn't have the Recoil recoil but only Powers powers up ExtremeSpeed and by 20%, and instead, Lum Berry allows it to recover from Status once.

    Sample Set:

    Arceus @ Leftovers/Life Orb/Lum Berry
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Swords Dance
    - Shadow Claw/Fire Blast
    - Earthquake/Brick Break

    Summary:

    Extremely strong, its Arceus's Speed stat allows for immense versatility in EVing as was demonstrated, as well as plenty of power.[period], both Both of these are the case--Arceus's EV limit was lifted because of BW items., because the EV limit that was imposed upon it last generation due to being released at Level 100 only, as opposed to via the Azure Flute which would have made it available at level 80. All this and STAB ExtremeSpeed make it Arceus arguably the best priority sweeper in all of Ubers. Four different options for Items item choices that all provide good results, nine Different Moves different moves that give it numerous accomplished roles, allow it to handle so many different approaches to it's job and do any of them well, and Stats stats that are befitting of the god of all Pokemon--base 120 across the board-- base 120 across the board make it outright amazing. No wonder that on both the PO/Beta PO Beta and Smogon servers it is constantly top 5. It partners with so many different Pokemon in the tier so well and it has a Movepool movepool such that it can fit nearly any team with fairly little effort.

    Checks/Counters:

    [​IMG]Physically Defensive Groudon - This is the one of the main choices of Defensive defensive teams to keep Arceus in check, as with Leftovers Groudon is only 3HKOed by +2 ExtremeSpeed, and it can Roar Arceus out or do good damage with Earthquake. 3HKO'd by +2 Extremespeed assuming Lefties and can Roar it out or do pretty good damage with Earthquake.

    [​IMG]Giratina-A: Giratina's Will-O-Wisp neuters all non-Lum Berry variants of the Extreme Killer. Such variants are a bit more trouble. Will-O-Wisp neuters anything physical that isn't immune and this thing has more bulk than god itself, though Lum Berry variants can be trouble.

    [​IMG]Ghost and Steel Arceus - These are about as effective as Girantina, though they have less bulk. Same thing as Giratina-A minus having more bulk than god itself.

    [​IMG]Lugia - Reflect and Recover or Roost and Toxic can stall Arceus out. In Dream World, Multi-Scale is a huge help. Reflect + Recover(if Multi-Scale in Dream World only)/Roost + Toxic allow it to stall Arceus out.

    [​IMG]Cresselia - Reflect, Moonlight, and Toxic will stall Arceus out since Cresselia is amazingly bulky. Though, Moonlight has only 8 Power Points as opposed to the 16 of Recover, and it is not very good under rain or sand, as it only heals 33% as opposed to 50%. However, under sun it heals 66%--in other words, Moonlight is unreliable. Reflect + Moonlight + Toxic allow it to stall Arceus out thanks to it's amazing bulk though Moonlight has only 8 Power Points as opposed to the 16 Power Points of Roost/Recover, and it is not very good under Rain nor the odd instance of Sand as it only heals 33.33% as opposed to 50%, however under Sun it heals 66.66% so it's healing is unreliable.

    [​IMG]Skarmory - If Arceus doesn't have a Fire-type move, Skarmory Skarm walls it all day and Phazes can phaze it with Whirlwind, while regaining Health with Roost.

    [​IMG]Bronzong - Bronzong resists ExtremeSpeed, is neutral to Brick Break, and is immune to Earthqake. It can deal decent damage back with Gyro Ball, making it a decent check to any set without Overheat / Fire Blast. Resists Extremespeed, neutral to Brick Break and is immune to Earthquake, as well as being able to do decent damage with Gyro Ball make it a decent check to any set without Overheat/Fire Blast.

    [​IMG]Scarf-Dialga/[​IMG] Terrakion (Scarf may or may not be necessary based on number of Speed EVs on Arceus) - These Choice Scarf users resist ExtremeSpeed and hit back hard with Draco Meteor or Close Combat, respectively. Resists E-speed and hits back hard with Draco Meteor or Close Combat respectively.




    SWORDS DANCE RAYQUAZA



    [​IMG]



    STATS:

    HP - 105
    Atk - 150
    Def - 90
    SpA - 150
    SpD - 90
    Spe - 95



    EVs:

    Max Attack generally 216 Speed Jolly to beat the base 90s remainder (aka 40) into HP.



    Moves:

    • Swords Dance
    • ExtremeSpeed
    • Outrage/Dragon Claw
    • Earthquake
    • Fire Blast/Overheat
    Outrage v versus Dragon Claw comes down to weather or not you want a lot of power or a way to avoid getting trapped by steels, Earthquake or Fire Blast / Overheat depends on whether or not you are worried about Arceus-Steel/Dialga/Arceus-Rock/Tyranitar/Jirachi vs. Ferrothorn/Scizor/Forry/Skarm/Zong add spaces to all these slashes, and ExtremeSpeed allows you to outrun faster threats that could otherwise beat you, Swords Dance is again for Attack boosts.



    Items:

    • Life Orb
    • Leftovers
    Life Orb just because this guy loves the extra power, but Leftovers are is an option nonetheless for extra bulk Bulk.



    Sample Set:

    Rayquaza @ Life Orb/Leftovers
    Trait: Air Lock
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Outrage / Dragon Claw
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Earthquake / Overheat



    Summary:

    Yes, it looks like a ton of changes, but I mainly copied what you wrote and fixed areas that were iffy. It was easier for me to do so.

    The Rayquaza is the other priority sweeper that dominates the Uber tier.[period] individually it It and Arceus are dangerous together--carrying two sweepers that are similar is a deadly strategy in Ubers, since most teams are not fit to handle both. In this case, having two physical attackers will wear down the opponent, especially since Rayquaza and Arceus both use a +2 priority move. While Rayquaza isn't the same Pokemon it was last generation, the Swords Dance variant is not bad. No, in fact it is only outclassed by the faster and bulkier Arceus, causing people to use Dragon Dance and Mixquaza sets instead. Whil more often than not Arceus is the favored priority user, Rayquaza's Swords Dance set is still viable for two reasons. The first is taht Arceus is ruined by physically defensive Giratina-A, only able to deal 40-47% with a +2 Adamant Shadow Claw. However, Rayquaza plows through it effortlessly thanks to its Dragon-type STAB. The second reason to use Rayquaza over Arceus is ironically Arceus's greatest strength: its versatility. That is, if your team has to use another variant of Arceus to fill a role, you can use Rayquaza to be your quasi-Extreme Killer. While Swords Dance Rayquaza undeniably faded in the generation shift, it is still a force to be reckoned with and shouldn't be discarded in preparing a team. they are out and out devastating. I learned early on either carry 2 sweepers with similar behaviors and counters or exact opposite ones these two function so much alike it is almost scary, and since the Uber tier is more of a special based tier running 2 Physical Sweepers like this is destructive unless your opponent is prepared to face both in the same battle. While Rayquaza isn't the same Pokemon it was last Generation as far as it's Swords Dance set goes that isn't to say it is bad, no in fact it is only outclassed by the faster and bulkier Arceus, causing people to use the Dragon Dance and Mixquaza sets instead. While more oft than not Arceus is the more Favored option Rayquaza's Swords Dance set is still viable. There are 2 reasons to use Rayquaza over Arceus. The first is that Arceus is ruined by Physically Defensive Giratina-A only able to deal 40-47% with a +2 Max Adamant Shadow Claw, however Rayquaza plows through it effortlessly thanks to it's Dragon STAB. The second Reason to use Rayquaza over Arceus is Ironically Arceus' Greatest Strength it's versatility if your team contains an Arceus other than a Swords Dance Variant such as a Wall or Calm Mind set Rayquaza can fit in as a Swords Dance Sweeper in place of Arceus. While Swords Dance Rayquaza has undeniably faded in the Generational Shift it is still a force to be reckoned with in some ways it is more dangerous in fact simply due to the fact that it isn't as common and is less of a priority to prepare for.



    Checks/Counters:

    A lot of what stops Extreme Killer Arceus also stops Rayquaza.

    Exceptions: Giratina-A dies to a +2 Life Orb Dragon Claw, and if Rayquaza uses Outrage an item boost isn't needed. Unfortunately for Steel Arceus, Earthquake is a bit more common and powerful on Swords Dance Rayquaza than it is on Arceus. Terrakion must use Stone Edge to KO Rayquaza, and Lugia and Cresselia will threaten the Dragon with Ice Beam, unlike if it were Arceus. if the Rayquaza is running Outrage not stopping it even if it is holding Lefties, unfortunately for Arceus Steel Earthquake is a bit more common and powerful on Swords Dance Rayquaza than it is on Arceus and with Life Orb +2 76% chance 1HKO with Rocks, Terrakion needs to use Stone Edge not Close Combat and the Scarf is pointless as even with max Speed Rayquaza is slower, and Lugia and Cresselia can threaten more directly due to Ice Beam.

    [​IMG]Jirachi - Can 1HKO Ray with Ice Punch and Resists resists Dragon Claw / Outrage and ExtremeSpeed. E-Speed.

    [​IMG]Palkia - Spacial Rend / Draco Meteor both 1HKO,[comma] but ExtremeSpeed hurts it a lot.

    [​IMG]Garchomp - See Palkia but change Spacial Rend/Draco Meteor to Dragon Claw/Outrage. spaces between slashes




    GIRATINA-ORIGIN FORME



    [​IMG]



    STATS:

    HP - 150
    Atk - 120
    Def - 100
    SpA - 120
    SpD - 100
    Spe - 90



    EVs:

    Giratina's Shadow Sneak does not focus on power like Arceus's and Rayquaza's ExtremeSpeed do. Since Giratina has base 90 Speed, it would be wiser to balance power and bulk. However, investing in Speed is an option for its surprise value.

    Focus on power unlike Arceus and Rayuaza's ExtremeSpeed, Giratina's Shadow Sneak isn't overly powerful and it is in the base 90 tier so speed wise it is hardly winning any awards so balance with as much power as you can and then set the remaining EVs into bulk, though you could focus on Speed before the offenses but this thing's offenses are kind average by Uber standards and as stated base 90 Speed tier isn't great.




    Moves:

    • Outrage/Dragon Claw
    • Dragon Tail
    • Shadow Ball
    • Shadow Sneak
    • Hidden Power [Fire] Hidden Power Fire
    • Draco Meteor
    • Earthquake
    • Aura Sphere

    Draco Meteor is the strongest Dragon move in the game, though it comes with a drawback of lower the user's Special Attack by two stages. Hidden Power Fire is for Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, and Excadrill, among others. Shadow Sneak is priority, and Shadow Ball is a special Ghost-type move. Dragon Tail is for phazing, and just gives your opponent a hard time getting their check or counter in. Outrage / Dragon Claw is a physical Dragon STAB, generally to be used in place of Dragon Tail. However, with all the power from Draco Meteor the lower power of Dragon Tail isn't too much to fret about.

    Draco Meteor is the strongest Dragon move in the game but with the drawback of a -2 Special Attack, Hidden Power Fire is for Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, and Excadrill among others. Shadow Sneak is priority though as I've already mentioned this guy doesn't emphasize on it the way Rayquaza or Arceus do for ExtremeSpeed, Shadow Ball is a Special Ghost STAB option, Dragon Tail is for Phazing and just giving your opponent a hard time getting their Check/Counter in, Outrage/Dragon Claw is for Physical Dragon STAB generally to be used in place of Dragon Tail though with all the power from Draco Meteor the lower power on Dragon Tail really isn’t too much to fret about.




    Item:

    • Griseous Orb
    You may notice that the only item listed here is Giratina's trademark item, the Griseous Orb, which powers up the Base Power of Giratina's Ghost- and Dragon-type moves by 20%. This is also the only item Giratina can hold to be in its Origin forme. However, it is a shame that it can't use Leftovers to regain HP nor Life Orb to power up its moves.

    Now then you may notice that the only Item listed here is Giratina's trademark Item the Griseous Orb which powers up all of Giratina's Ghost/Dragon moves by 20% and for those of you that don't know it can't hold anything else and still be in it's Origin Forme this includes via Trick which is really nice and part of the reason it saw use in Gen 4 Ubers though it is a shame that you can't use Leftovers to allow it to regain HP nor Life Orb as to power up all it's moves but that is life.



    Sample Set:

    Giratina@ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 Atk / 252 SAtk / 8 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    Draco Meteor
    Shadow Sneak
    Dragon Tail / Outrage
    Hidden Power Fire [Fire] / Aura Sphere

    Summary:

    Considered the best spin blocker in Ubers history, the entire reason it has carried Hidden Power Fire was because it handled Forretress better than any other viable Ghost-type. In HGSS, it picked up Shadow Sneak

    Considered the best Spin Blocker/Trick Absorber in Ubers history, the entire reason it has carried HP Fire since it started to see use in Generation 4 is because it handled Forretress better than any other viable ghost type. In Heart Gold/Soul Silver it picked up a new toy known as Shadow Sneak a Physical Ghost move with +1 priority this took it into if I recall correctly the top 10-15 in the Uber tier, this thing will always have an impact on the Ubers tier and a strong one at that. It is generally seen as a Mixed Attacker as sampled above, the main Reason to use it over all the other options for an Uber Mixed Attacker is for it's immunity to Trick, it's Ability to Spin Block, it's access to priority in the form of Shadow Sneak, and it's solid natural Bulk.



    Checks/Counters:

    [​IMG]Lugia/[​IMG]Cresselia - Can take most anything Giratina can send their way and chip it down with Ice Beam.

    [​IMG]Arceus-Steel - Resists everything Giratina commonly has bar HP Fire and doesn't take enough from that for a 2HKO.
    [​IMG]Heatran - If it is lacking Aura Sphere and Earthquake Giratina can't do much if anything and takes major damage from Dragon Pulse.

    [​IMG]Tyranitar (Specially Defensive) - Come in on a special move and threaten with Crunch/Pursuit.

    [​IMG]Jirachi (Specially Defensive) - come in on a Dragon move other than Dragon Tail threaten with Iron Head or Ice Punch or just sit on it and take little to nothing from all common Attacks.

    Power house Dragons have no issues checking it though Dialga does it best due to its Ghost resist.




    HONORABLE MENTIONS - OFFENSE



    [​IMG]Deoxys-A - 180/180/150 Offenses/Speed with that Movepool are unrivaled, but it can't take a real hit to save it's life.

    [​IMG]Other Arceus forms - While having the alternate STAB is nice it misses the versatility in the item department and the STAB on ExtremeSpeed.

    [​IMG]Scizor - Swords Dance/Choice Band Technician Bullet Punch is powerful it doesn't have the same impact and power as it does in OU.

    [​IMG]Weavile - It can sweep with Swords Dance using Ice Shard to beat faster or speed boosted Dragons though it isn't as good as it was last gen.

    [​IMG]Mamoswine - While it can necessarily sweep it is a decent user of choice band due to Earthquake, Stone Edge, Ice Shard, Icicle Crash, and Superpower, though like Weavile its out of its prime.

    [​IMG]Tornados - +1 priority Bulk Up would be interesting but not enough bulk or resources to really pull it off.

    [​IMG]Lucario - Great Typing combined with, Swords Dance, nice offensive movepool including things like Crunch; Ice Punch; Close Combat; and ExtremeSpeed, However 110 Attack/90 Speed isn't doing it many favors nor is its lackluster bulk.

    [​IMG]Dragonite – Well another Dragon-Flying Type while at first glance it is horribly outclassed by Rayqyuaza especially seeing as it lacks Swords Dance, however it has one distinct advantage and that is Multiscale which is Dragonite’s Dream World Ability which halves damage from any Attack so long as Dragonite is at full Health. This gives it a niche as a Band poke that Rayquaza doesn’t fill as well due to not having in essence a free hit to it though Dragonite has 16 fewer Base Attack points.




    THE SUPPORTERS




    THUNDURUS



    [​IMG]



    STATS:

    HP - 79
    Atk - 115
    Def - 70
    SpA - 125
    SpD - 80
    Spe - 111



    EVs:

    This guy really doesn't have much in the way of bulk so go all out on Speed and the Special Attack (the only time you will use the Physical Attack stat is on a mixed set using Hammer Arm to Bait and Defeat Chansey/Blissey).



    Moves:

    • Thunderbolt/Thunder
    • Hidden Power [Ice]
    • Focus Blast
    • +1 priority Thunder Wave
    • +1 priority Taunt
    • +1 priority Substitute
    • Volt Switch
    • Grass Knot
    • Nasty Plot (has +1 priority but as it doesn't effect the opponent's Pokemon nor does it boost Thundurus' Defenses/restore its HP/status it's priority is completely irrelevant)
    • Hammer Arm
    The first thing that you will notice is that for a poke with little bulk I'm putting a fair bit of emphasis on it's support moves that is for the likely few if not none of you that don't know it has the new ability Prankster giving it's support moves +1 priority namely Thunder Wave (to paralyze opposing threats), Taunt (to stop opposing support moves), and Substitute but it has a very nice offensive movepool as well with Nasty Plot (+2 SAtk anyone), Volt Change (scouting), Hammer Arm (beat Chansey/Blissey on a mixed Set), Thunderbolt/Thunder (main STAB (Thunder is really only if used with Ogre)), Focus Blast (to beat Steels), HP Ice (Beat all those Dragons running around), and Grass Knot (beat Groudon mainly).



    Items:

    • Life Orb
    • Leftovers
    • Lum Berry
    • Focus Sash
    This thing has Wants Life Orb for the Extra Power unless it is running NP without Substitute, however Either Way Lefties and Lum Berry are options to help its Longevity with either an option for passive HP recovery or 1 time Status recovery, Focus Sash can be used for an Anti-Lead Set of sorts though there are generally other better options for that kind of thing.



    Sample Set:

    Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb/Leftovers/Lum Berry
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt / Thunder
    - Focus Blast / Hammer Arm
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Thunder Wave
    - Thunder Wave / Taunt



    Summary:

    This thing was an absolute beast in OU however despite it's Stats seeming fairly average bar its Speed for an Uber, it is still a solid force though not what the other 3 are. Despite the rough tier it is a good supporter and can maintain offensive momentum which is very nice. Thunder Wave is not only good for crippling opposing teams, but seeing as it has +1 priority it does mean that Thundurus has a 25% chance of surviving using it to stop an opposing sweeper from destroying your team, that is probably the single biggest draw Thundurus has. All in all much more than it first appears to be and should not be ignored while building your Team.



    Checks/Counters:

    [​IMG]Blissey/[​IMG]Evolite Chansey - Duh, so long as it isn't running Taunt/Focus Blast + NP or is a Hammer Arm variant these two can stall for LO + Toxic damage all day.

    Fast power hitters - If it can get past 353 speed it will more than likely take care of Thundurus though watch out for T-Wave.

    [​IMG]Scarf-Chomp - Outrage and Dragon Claw dispose of it and is immune to the Electric moves.

    [​IMG]Ground-Arceus - Immune to T-wave and T-bolt/Thunder/Volt Change outspeeds, 1HKOs easy with Edge.




    HONORABLE MENTIONS - SUPPORT:



    [​IMG]Whimsitott - Huge support movepool but poor bulk, however Sub-Seed is Annoying as heck agains Stall teams with T-Spikes Support, Offesive Teams handle it better as it was a harder time holding its subs or in many cases even getting them with the power Level of the Tier, though Scizor is arguably the best pokemon for Stopping it as it Can U-Turn out and leave it with no Sub and no Seeds against another power hitter.
    [​IMG]Sableye - Perfectly tuned movepool including Will-O-Wisp , Recover, Swagger+Foul Play, Taunt, Substitute, and torment and typing for abusing prankster however it's Defenses (50/75/65) and general lack of resists give it issues.



    Dream World

    These None of these Pokemon have any direct benefit from the Dream World that is not already Available, However there are things that do effect them. the most notable thing in DW that can impact these Pokemon is Shadow Tag Chandelure as it can trap and beat any of these bar Giratina-O and technically Thundurus as the former has Shadow Sneak and the Latter Priority Thunder Wave. Other things Include Genescect and that migraine Ditto, the former Has Steel Typing + Ice Beam which is Super Effective against 3 of the four major priority abusers and has STAB Bug Buzz for Arceus who takes neutral damage from Ice Beam, while the latter becomes whatever Pokemon is on the field with 50% more speed thanks to a Scarf though it loses to Thundurus due to Priority Thunder Wave.



    Sample Teams



    Well here are a couple teams that do a good job of Abusing Priority figured having them here for further reference would be a good idea (take note they would have pictures a Number of pictures (the second has none ATM) but many are gone due to issue with the images used and I haven't had a real Chance to take care of them yet).

    Uber Attack

    Team Ninja

  4. fidgety

    fidgety

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    170
    I'm going to add the changes V0x has put in so far.

    the reason that this seems more like a casual Analysis is that is what this started as (an 8 month long Project over on the PO forums, probably the most comprehensive thing the the Uber Sub-Forum).

    Sorry I hadn't been on in a while the holidays made it so that my activity was down enough that I needed to focus on this or my PO account, as this is really the only thing I'm doing here, I chose PO.
  5. Tobes

    Tobes
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,572
    I'd add Tornadus to the list of priority supporters, as Tailwind can really change the momentum of a game.
  6. fidgety

    fidgety

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    170
    Added, Also got what V0x has completed as well.
  7. Oglemi

    Oglemi gimme
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,076
    OK I've edited the OP directly with some formatting stuff, so now it looks a lot more presentable imo and quite a bit cleaner (it would have been too much of a pain/time consuming to try and explain what to do with the formatting in a separate post, hope you understand fidgety).

    This should be ready for GP checks then, though I think it may be in need of a conclusion of some kind.
  8. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Wi-Fi Commissioner

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,855
    k, so this just needs GP and maybe fleshed out more.
  9. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,375
    It may be a small thing but I think it should be mentioned that huge part of Giratina-O's success as a spinblocker is an immunity to Toxic Spikes which is pretty common place in ubers. It's a trait that his bulkier cousin lacks.
  10. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Wi-Fi Commissioner

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,855
    hasn't been touched and is kind of lacking, moving

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)