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Priority to Victory: RMT @ #3 on OU ladder

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by thenewguy24, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. thenewguy24

    thenewguy24

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Priority to Victory: An RMT by thenewguy24

    THE TEAM:
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    Welcome all to my first ever RMT. This is a hyper offense team that I have had great success with and have finally decided to take the time to RMT it. It’s been tinkered and tried many times until I was finally able to achieve stable success with it under the names “thenewguy24” (ACRE: 1998 Ladder Rank: 14), badplayer24 (ACRE: 2009 Ladder Rank 10) , and “thenewdude24 “ (2084 Record 20-0 Ladder Rank 3). These names are all current in their standing as I type this up so it’s evident that this team has had its fair share of victories with a total record of 80 wins to 14 losses. What I’m looking for now is help in how to push this team into the top 5 or even top spot of the ladder.

    Team Goal: Believe it or not nearly every game played with this team ended in fewer than 20 turns. The offensive flow and momentum able to be achieved with the combined priority, speed, and power of this team allows for quick victories. With a sashed terrakion ensuring rocks will always have a chance to get up and stay up, a sashed breloom nearly always ensuring one member of the opposing team will be incapacitated due to sleep, and the best spinner and dragon slayer around, this team seemingly covers all angles. 4 sashes also ensure momentum is always on my side as the second the opposing team thinks they’ve killed one of my pokes, a sash breaks, a hit is returned( usually KOing as the mons with sashes all have high attacking stats), and the momentum stays where it belongs, with me. Sashes also ensure set up sweepers and powerful choice users cannot plow through my team.







    The Team: In depth

    [​IMG]

    Breloom @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Bullet Seed
    - Swords Dance
    - Mach Punch
    - Spore

    Breloom is one of the deadliest pokemon around with his technician boosted mach punch able to punch devastating holes in opposing pokemon. Breloom is nearly always the lead against water teams with politoed unless I noticed a dragonite or thundurus in their team preview in which case terrakion is the better lead. The goal of this team is to always have the offensive momentum and with breloom guaranteeing a spore on turn 1, or a bullet seed KO, it’s an obvious choice why he is able to lead. Life orbing breloom used to be a part of this team but the benefits the sash brings, such as KOing scarftoad on turn 1, surviving starmie ice beam and koing with bullet seed, etc, were too much to ignore. The sash also allows breloom to be switched out with one percent and still be a huge threat later in the game with that priority mach punch. Breloom seldom gets sacked because of this with his sacking only occurring if his sash is broken and his mach punch no longer needed.


    [​IMG]

    Terrakion @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat


    With the departure of Deo-D, Terrakion imo has to be the best lead on any weatherless teams. The sheer speed, power, taunt, and ability to get rocks up are what make terrakion so devastating as a lead. Terrakion almost always gets sacked (lest I’m facing a rare stall team) as I leave him in and just attack until he’s taken down. Again, the goal of this team, and the goal really of any battle with an offense team is to initiate momentum and then control it throughout the game. With terrakion setting up rocks(one of the most crucial aspects in any battle) and still having the ability to hit as hard as he does, this beast makes for one of the best leads. Terrakion nearly always goes first against other leads as his 108 base speed isn’t matched by any of the top leads. The use of taunt lets him make ferro and skarm leads useless as he gets rocks up, takes the sac, and then paves the way for breloom to come in and spore. Using Terrakion and breloom together to taunt and spore enemy hazard setters is something I always shoot for in the early going as over half the team is sashed and hazards break them. Getting rocks up and preventing rocks from being set up are two valuable niches terrakion possesses in this team.


    [​IMG]

    Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Stone Edge
    - Icicle Crash


    Mamoswine, my new favorite pokemon and the one of this team that by far has the most kills. Thanks to Ice Shard, Mamoswine can OHKO sweepers such as Thundurus-T, Landorus, and Garchomp before they can even move. Mamoswine is no slouch against defensive teams either; its powerful STAB attacks, Earthquake and Icicle Crash, together allow it to 2HKO nearly any Pokemon that tries to switch into it. Mamoswine should be on every single team that employs any kind of offensive style solely because of the sheer power of ice shard even to pokemon that resist it. Mamoswine is also deceptively fast and with a jolly nature can outspeed breloom ice shard for mach punch. I can’t tell you how many games have come down to mamoswine versus 2-3 weakened opposing team pokemon where mamo is at 1% and he is able to sweep through with ease. With showdowns 30=100 (though it seems more fixed of late) icicle crash actually flinches a lot more than you think though relying on something like that for a win is folly.

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    Scizor (M) @ Iron Plate
    Trait: Technician
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 224 HP / 32 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Swords Dance
    - U-turn
    - Superpower


    I feel as though justification for why scizor is on this team is unnecessary as he can fill a role on nearly every team, but rules are rules, so… Scizor is my bluffmon with that iron plate bluffing that choice band set that everyone runs. I was torn between speed and bulk and opted with bulk so scizor can switch into scarf iron heads from jirachi and dracos and outrages from the dragons. Swords dance and U-turn may seem contradictory, however, by bluffing the choice set with a U-turn early on, scizor can find his opportunity, once his counters are removed, to buff up with swords dance and sweep with bullet punch. Bullet punch after boosted with technician and swords dance does massive damage to everything. Calc and examples are unnecessary as I’m sure we’ve all seen the destructive power that bullet punch is capable of doing. Scizor is the last of the trio of priority users and his role on this team is invaluable. That 32 speed EVs is solely there to outspeed other scizors who use the standard bulky scizor with 8 speed EVs.

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    Starmie @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Rapid Spin
    - Psychic
    - Ice Beam


    A team with 4 sashes obviously does not want entry hazards as they are the downfall of this team. With terrakions taunt, breloom’s spore, and now the best spinner in the game, hazards are seldom on my side of the field. Besides starmie’s obvious role in spinning away rocks, she actually hits extremely hard. Psychic is chosen over thunderbolt because Conkeldurr proved to be a problem and I realized the only times I was clicking thunderbolt was against jellicent, rotom, and tentacruel and psychic does more to tentacruel and the more or less the same to rotom. Hail used to be in that third move spot to troll weather teams but I wanted all out offense and maximal coverage so 3 attacks were chosen. Though is able to KO, her primary goal, and she has been sacked many times to achieve this, is to simply spin away hazards when the opposing hazard setter is KOd, or sleeping.

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    Alakazam (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Magic Guard
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
    Mild Nature
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Psychic


    The final team slot belongs to Alakazam. This slot has rotated between calm mind jirachi, sash volcarona, and life orb blissey before finally becoming sash alakazam as the most success was achieved with him. This last slot on the team is reserved for the special attacker and before I move on let me begin by saying that life orb blissey is no joke. With 100 speed EVs she outspeeds scizor and destroys him with fire blast. Add in the coverage of ice beam and thunder to go off that acceptable base 75 attack and Blissey will show you shes no joke when it comes to dealing out damage. I’m sure some of you who are online during the most common times I’m on, around midnight pacific, have seen/lost a ferrothorn to the might of life orb blissey. However, we must go back to Alakazam as the greatness of Blissey sidetracked me. Alakazam is chill I guess he does what he’s supposed to and always manages to take out at least one pokemon with the speed, power, and sash, which is all I wanted from this teams slot anyways. So in that regard you can say he serves his role quite well.

    Closing Remarks: Overall, I’ve had lots of fun and success playing with this team on Showdown. The extremely fast style of play with nearly all games ending in less than 20 turns allowed for me to move from game to game quickly and discover weaknesses I had in the team to fix them. With every team however, there is always going to holes which can be exploited which is why there exists no undefeated team with a significant amount of games played.

    Edit: 3/27 Video Logs:

    Against sharpedo shenanigans: http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou13063337
    Against a guy over 1900 with a good Sand team: http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou13061231
    Against Hail : http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou13063845 (not very good game but almost only hail team I faced in which game lasted longer than 6 turns
    Against Drizzletoad: http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou13064411
  2. the nub

    the nub

    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Messages:
    27
    Hi!, this is a very nice team, congratz but...You really dont like the SR because 3 of your sweppers (Mamoswine, Breeloom and Terrakion) are affected and they have focus sash. So i prefer the set sub-SD

    Terrakion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly / Adamant Nature
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat


    With this set you can spore the enemy with breelom, change to terrakion. My last suggestion is Leftiez > Life Orb in Starmie cause you need a spinner..but is my opinion xD i dont stand so much of HyperOffense. For the other nice team.
  3. thenewguy24

    thenewguy24

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Hey thanks for the suggestion but seeing as how terrakion is more often than breloom my lead, he needs the sash to ensure that rocks can get up. And haha it isnt as easy as just sporing and setting up proper counters have to be removed, but thats not the focus of this team anyways. Thanks for the insight though :)
  4. KaminaSan

    KaminaSan

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    So... How do you kill Jirachi when Mamoswine is down? How do you take out opposing steel types? I don't know much but I see a huge lack of Fire/steel pokemon killing power.
  5. thenewguy24

    thenewguy24

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
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    Jirachi is literally the number one threat to this team I'd wager to say close to every loss had a jirachi on it. If I see one on an opposing team I take extra precaution to keep mamo around. The most common way jirachi dies is when I bring mamo in on a salamance or latios and use EQ on the jirachi switch rather than ice shard. With any hyper offense team youre going to have to make spot on predictions and take care because there really isnt room for error. Defensive jirachis I try and spore with breloom just to keep them out of my way for the game. Other than that wear and tear from rocks and sacking starmie to put damage lining jirachi up for the kill on the switch are the other ways its dealt with. As for fire types they tend to be the easiest teams to deal with terrakion and mamo there were few if any losses to fire teams.
  6. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
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    Hey,

    The problem with this team is that you rely too much on priority and your Sashed pokemon to cover opposing offensive threats for you. IMO this team isn't exactly Hyper Offense, because you lack sweepers and wall breakers and the speed that is the framework of such teams. Relying on priority is not bad; it's a cool way to cover the threats of the tier, but sadly, you can not fully rely on it, because there will always be pokemon that can not be taken down by priority. You handle this problem fairly well with your extensive use of Sashes, which is pretty creative imo, and does help shorten the list of things that threaten this team. However, threats still exist, and in order to take this team to the next level, such threats need to be covered.

    First off are the pokemon that you can not KO with just priority. Pokemon that resist or are neutral to Fighting / Steel / Ice make up a majority of this group. Such pokemon like QD Volc in Sun, Venasaur in Sun, Scarf Keldeo in Rain, Scarf Jirachi, WoW Rotom, and etc are all pokemon that fall under this category and have the potential to cause a lot of damage to this team because they can outspeed / kill / cripple your sweepers. The reason why you are weak to these threats is because you can't outspeed or hit them with priority. For this reason, I think you need a Scarfer, a pokemon that doesn't need to rely on priority in order to outspeed opponents. Because this team is weak to Steel / Fire / Water / Psychic types, I think your best course of action is to give Terrakion a Scarf. This will greatly benefit your team as it will provide you with a way to defeat Scarfers and setup sweepers that are either too bulky or resistant to your priority revenge killers. Scarf Terrakion is also a great check to Sand / Sun teams, and can easily clean up late game, or cover Mamoswine's spot as a Dragon / Steel killer. Its Fighting / Rock coverage and speed let it hit much of the tier for a lot of damage, successfully preventing many pokemon from setting up and sweeping. Terrakion handles a multitude of threats that I'm sure this team has seen around some time or another- such as QD Volc, Scarf / SpDef Jirachi, DD Nite, SpecsTi@s, Celebi, or even weakened Scarf Rotom. It also aids the team by not relying on a Sash, therefore removing another pokemon that can be potentially weak to hazards. You also won't miss out on Terrakion's support much because Loom does a nice job with 'Taunt' and Stealth Rock can be given go another teammate, of which I am about to explain.

    However, now that Terrakion is Scarved, you lose your SR. It's a funny coincedence that Focus Sash Endeavor Mamoswine is a great Stealth Rocker- and it plays so similarly to your current Mamo that I'm sure it will easily fit in. Instead of using its Sash as a way to ensure that it revenges certain threats, Mamoswine can use its Sash+Endeavor to deal massive amounts of damage to pokemon that it faces. Sash+Endeavor is also a much more reliable way to check setup sweepers than your current set, since as long as you keep your Sash intact your opponent will be forced to bring you down to 1% so you can endeavor and then kill with priority. Oh, and it just so happens to be that Endeavor Mamoswine can also set rocks. How convenient!

    Another threat to this team are hazards, as you've emphasized. Removing a sash does 'lessen' this weakness a bit, but I still feel as if some precautions should be made. It is of my opinion that you should try Bulky Starmie over your current one. Spinning is of utmost importance to this team especially now that Terrakion can no longer Taunt and that Mamo actually relies on its Sash to deal the massive amounts of damage it is capable of dealing. For this reason, making your spinner frail and easily worn down is something you should fix imo. Giving Starmie reliable recovery and a bit more bulk will allow it to come in more often and spin away the hazards that Loom and Mamo hate. Also, I'm doubtful that you'll actually be losing much attack power, as Alakazam basically covers everything Starmie had, and more. Giving Starmie more bulk and longevity will allow it to spin more.

    And, last but not least, a minor tweak that I'm sure was probably just a typo: it appears as if you've given Alakazam 4 Atk evs and a Mild nature, but it doesn't even carry any physical moves (nor should it anyway). Give it a spread of 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid instead, so you're not decreasing the already low defense stat of Zam.

    Good luck! Nice team!

    the sets (open)

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    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe / Jolly
    Stone Edge / Close Combat / XScissor / Earthquake

    Terrakion's speed and power make it a great revenge killer. CC and SE are near perfect coverage, and smash Steel and Flying types alike. XScissor hits Psychic and Grass types, mainly Celebi and Lati@s. EQ hits Jirachi / Toxicroak / Tentacruel very hard.

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe / Jolly
    Stealth Rock / Endeavor / Earthquake / Ice Shard

    SR and Endeavor are a must, and EQ is for powerful STAB. Shard is priority for hitting Dragons. If you want, you can even try Adamant on Mamoswine, for the extra bit of damage against Dragons. Jolly Loom can't do shit to your team anyway lol.

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Leftovers
    252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe / Timid
    Rapid Spin / Recover / Scald / Psyshock

    I think Scald and Psyshock would work best here as Scald hits Gliscor and other ground types and Psyshock OHKO's Gengar. Zam can be used to hit Conkeldurr or other physically defensive fighting types.
  7. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    966
    Hey newguy! It's superwii64cube fyi (idk if you know me on PS). I've seen you do quite well with this team actually. There are a lot of stuff you can really fix. The first thing you would want to address is your bad matchup (not really destroyed by, but struggle to come out on top on) some of the more important threats in the metagame given. In particular, i'm looking at your lack of reliability in dealing with Keldeo. Sure, Starmie resists both STABs but you are gonna lose out to the ScarfTar partner (slowly becoming a litte more popular) and you can't really recover life as you have LO. Alakazam is there, sure but using alakazam to reliably check anything that can run Choice Scarf is not a good idea. Also, it's switching in on nothing of Keldeo (except Icy Wind, but come on). Easily the best way to fix this is to make Starmie the Bulky Set rather than Offensive LO. Also, Psyshock>Psychic to come out on top more on potential CM Keldeo.

    SubDD Dragonite can also be amazing against your team as it can setup on Breloom, and bypass Mamoswine's Ice Shard. This is what also makes me recommend Icicle Spear>Icicle Crash. It also beats SashChomp, a strong mon on HO as well as random ninjask if you care.

    Lastly, Latias and Jellicent can be moderately troublesome when given the chance. Also, you would want a better matchup vs weather (it's not like you are in a bad matchup with it, every bit helps). This is what makes me recommend SashTar Lead over Sash Terrakion. SashTar can deal bluff CB in a similar vein to Scizor, Lure Skarmory for Breloom to sweep with Fire Blast, and kill/trap Spinblockers that can beat Starmie. Also, Mamoswine and Zam are immune to sand anyway. So just make Breloom Fight Gem and you are all fine as TTar is the only lead you really need.

    Sets:

    Show Hide


    [​IMG]

    Tyranitar @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - Crunch
    - Fire Blast
    - Pursuit
    - Stealth Rock

    [​IMG]

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 224 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Rapid Spin
    - Psyshock
    - Scald
    - Recover
  8. thenewguy24

    thenewguy24

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Wow Electrolyte and Unlucky One you guys clearly went through my RMT and worked up a well thought out analyses, so Ill start by thanking you guys there. Alright now to start on your suggestions. I guess the title of the team is deceiving "priority to victory" as it is the sashes far more often than not that end up winning games. You say common threats such as QD volcarona and venasaur in the sun cause problems however, with a sash intact, mamo beats venasaur with icicle crash after getting hit and beats volca with stone edge. This is just an example and it isnt always that straightforward and easy, but it is simple to just switch to the proper sashed mon as the opposing poke sets up, let them hit you and break the sash, and KO back. Like I stated earlier a team like requires good predictions with few flaws during play. I find scarf terrakion folly solely because of the amount of scizor and breloom that are running rampant. Threats such as scarf keldeo and scarf terrakion are dealt accordingly with the proper sashed mon taking the first hit and KOing back. For instance, Mamo can take Hydro pump, go down to 1% and hit with EQ. When factoring in damage from SR the following ice shard will KO. And also a suicide lead with stealth rocks and taunt is perfect for a team like this, especially one who hits as hard as terrakion. When terrakion goes out, rocks are up, their lead is incapable of placing hazards, and i'm able to bring in the appropriate counter, usually breloom to spore. At this point in the game its 5v6 while they have a weakened lead, one poke spored (if not the lead itself) and the next coming in on rocks. I can understand how its hard to see how this team is able to win with simply no defense present yet I assure you, the combo of sashes, no hazards, priority, and switching in and out to save the priority pokes for the very end to clean up wins a lot more often than you'd think. As for starmie, the coverage, damage output and simply the switches she causes with that LO set I feel stack up with team's goals and playstyle much better.
  9. KaminaSan

    KaminaSan

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    Keyword:feel. Could you try it out atleast?
  10. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
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    The problem is, you can't rely on Sashes, especially with an offensive Starmie set, because you can not always guarantee that hazards won't be up. SHOULD hazards be up, your team is absolutely ripped apart by setup sweepers, because you lack fast attackers and your priority is weak.

    And don't forget that hazards aren't the only thing that can mess your sashes up. Your team really hates status too- and a few pokemon that like spreading status (i.e. Sableye) can easily cripple more than half your team, not only weakening them but also making their sashes useless.

    Basically, what I'm saying here is, regardless of whether you're using priority or sashes to defeat opponents, you need a backup strategy- because you can not always guarantee that conditions will be set for your Sashed pokemon to revenge kill. Frankly, I don't see you winning any matches against teams with decent offensive pressure, such as VoltTurn teams, as Starmie will be worn down, hazards will be set, and your Sashes will be broken.

    I'm just naming threats here, but your Sash / priority really only works against opposing offense. Stall teams or bulkier teams who rely on gradually wearing their opponent down and then sweeping look very problematic for this team, since again you can not guarantee that your sashes will be intact by the time their sweepers get in. Even as you list the way you handle opposing sweepers, I can tell that it is not as solid as a top tier team should be. There are too many prerequisites for your revenge killers. For example, against Keldeo, not only does Mamo's Sash have to be intact, but SR also has to be up, and Mamo has to get in clean. Against Sun, Mamo / Terrak also need their Sashes, and they need to get in safely. Ok, but keep in mind that Sun teams always run hazards, and often carry enough offensive pressure to defeat Starmie.

    I don't want to come off as rude, but I really think you should reconsider these changes. I'm not saying that what I suggested is 100% right, but I feel that it would help just as strongly as you feel it wouldn't :/. It's ok to rely on Sashes or priority, but you still need some sort of revenge killer, because priority and sashes can only cover so many threats. I also don't want to make it seem as if I don't think the team is solid- because it is. However, we're all trying our best to help you improve.

    Also, you overlooked by comment about Alakazam's spread. It should run a spread of 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid, for max speed and as much bulk as Max speed / max SpA will allow.

    That's all I have to say.
  11. victini493RMT

    victini493RMT

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2012
    Messages:
    36
    Hi nice team!

    I'm not sure if you remember me on PS(42lkjafd), but you seemed to be under a lot of pressure with my Skarmory, despite me playing it recklessly.

    On another note, I don't think you actually have much for Sand Stall such as "Aromaticity." I could totally be missing something, but an experienced stall user will more than likely lead with something that both the obvious Breloom or Mamoswine, and then sleep fodder accordingly. Against offensive teams, your strategy with relying on Focus Sashes can work wonders and bring you all kinds of offensive momentum. I don't think it would be a bad idea to run Lum Berry or even Life Orb on your Scizor, as that's the closest thing you have to a dedicated weapon against a stall team. With either option, Scizor can beat(or at least wear down) Spinblockers such as Jellicent, meaning you would get a free Rapid Spin off. I feel that your team, despite the great amount of offensive synergy is at least somewhat vulnerable to stall, lacking amounts of sheer and raw power, and I think Offensive SD Scizor might actually be a solid fit.
  12. thenewguy24

    thenewguy24

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Again Electrolyte and victini thanks for the suggestions and rates I appreciate them and Ill begin by addressing electrolyte. I can see how its very hard to see how this can have success against stall teams and teams with sableye but given the records and proof, you can rank thenewdude24 for a 20-0 start; 3 teams have reached the top 15 on the PS ladder with this team and I've faced an assortment of stall, the benelaux stall or whatever that is, lacerta whom you all know has that amazing stall team and though problems and losses im sure have come to those teams as it is difficult to play against them, the records speak for themselves. I keep seeing "priority is weak it wont work." I understand this is the case and again the title of the team may be slightly misleading as I dont just spam priority moves. The sashes are the key here and the way I play the beginning of every game is to lure out their hazard setters to either kill or spore and from there on I can ensure hazards stay off my side. Perhaps I should post some game logs against various higher ranking players so you can see how this team operates. A lot of times ill spend a turn switching in a pokemon only to re switch it out to ensure favored match ups when my opponent switches. As for LO or lum on scizor victini, I opted to use Iron plate for the sole reason of bluffing the choice set, a tactic that has proven very useful. Lum could be used instead, but the only status scizor carres about is burn and its easily preictable when a will-o is coming I don't let scizor get burned. O and that alakazam is a typo its timid max speed.
  13. KaminaSan

    KaminaSan

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    I personally would like to see how this team works, with logs. I imported it last night, and won at most 1 game out of 10. Problem is not just with the sash dependence.

    The problem is how slow/weak the team is against normal priority teams. Send your poke out, another person sends out a specs poke, their priority breaks your sash, and then they just kill you on the next hit. I don't see how relying on one hp for all of your pokemon is viable.

    Please give us examples of how this works, cause I am quite convinced you either got lucky with RNG, or faced complete idiots.

    The only poke who carried their weight the whole time was terrakion.
  14. Ada

    Ada The Black King
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    176
    I prefer using Superpower over Stone Edge on Mamo, since it gives better coverage overall. It lets you hit rotom-w harder, and does more against Ferrothorn than without. The only reason I can think of for using SE would be for Gyara (but on second thought, doing some damage is better than none..). Other reasons for using Superpower include: hitting balloon users, beating up the pink blobs, bronzong etc.

    Oh, and the last time I mentioned LO Bliss, I got infracted for it... I guess smogon isn't ready for it yet >:o
  15. thenewguy24

    thenewguy24

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Ok #1 the fact that you won at most 1 out of 10 games has nothing to do with the team it has everything to do with the person playing with the team as I've said many times the win/loss ratios speak for themselves you dont just "get lucky" on a ladder run. #2 "slow/weak against normal priority"...what are you talking about...theres starmie coming off of 115 maxed, alakazam coming off of 120 maxed breloom max speed mamo nearly maxed speed and terrakion comes off of 108 at max speed that comment you made is quite simply false and wrong. And where does it ever say I rely on 1hp...
  16. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    966
    Yeah i really think that the ladder run wasn't really extraordinary. This team is really weird in a sense that there are situations that you have to sac something. Among the harder teams to play actually, I discussed this with you a bit and I really think that the Bulky Starmie will work better. Maybe even that SashNape.
  17. KaminaSan

    KaminaSan

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    Noticed I said I was quite convinced. Did not state anything as FACT. As I said before, some sort of battle log might help us all understand how you did so well.

    You may be right that it is the person playing that makes all the difference, but a team shouldn't rely on OMG if I don't predict this person's every move down to the dot, I will lose it all.

    Like I said, almost every team member I sent out was either outsped, or simply two shot due to lack of bulk. Even Alakazam couldn't one shot anyone who put the slightest bit of sp. def. They survive two hits, Alakazam takes 1.5(.5 being a priority attack). Not dissing your strategy, just stating facts.
  18. zzazzdsa

    zzazzdsa

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2010
    Messages:
    56
    Ok, unlike basically everyone else here, I believe this is an exceptionally good team that really only needs a little bit of tweaking to help it reach its full potential. Just predicting and not playing like a dumbass is usually sufficient to take on most of the more dangerous threats to the team, such as rotom-w, celebi, and latios.

    However, this doesn't mean I don't have any suggestions for you. For one, Alakazam always seemed a little dead weight when I used the team. I always felt that it really couldn't beat anything the rest of the team couldn't already flatten. In addition, the lack of a secondary sweeper sometimes ended up hurting me, as Scizor was rarely enough to sweep. For this reason, I suggest you use either Superachi!, Volcarona, or Thundurus-T over Alakazam. These pokemon are far more useful to your team, taking on opposing priority like champs and beating the few weaknesses your team has.

    As far as nitpicks go, consider running Thunderbolt over Psychic or Ice Beam on Starmie. Bulky waters are annoying for this team, and smacking things like Jellicent for a 2HKO after rocks is incredibly satisfying. In addition, use leftovers on Starmie too; considering it has no recovery, taking 10% minimum from a spin puts a serious damper on your ability to consistently remove rocks. Third, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to consider lum berry on scizor. Iron plate is a terrible item for it in my opinion, especially when absorbing burns from scald is far more useful to its sweeping potential. Finally, bump up Scizor's speed to 192; this enables you to outspeed Tyranitar, Bulky Politoed, Jellicent, Heatran, and a lot of other things. Having your sweep cut short by one of these things is a terrible feeling.

    That's basically all I can say about this team. In the few hours I've used it, I'm already 1500 on PO after changing alakazam to jirachi.
  19. thenewguy24

    thenewguy24

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Thank you I'm glad someone has had success through smart play, like I've said this is no easy team to play with and with good prediction success can be achieved. With that being said I'm right with with Alakazam being dead weight in comparison to the team. His role has actually switched from Volcarona to jirachi to unburden hitmonlee and sceptile. The last slot has switched the most with alakazam simply being chosen because I could rely on him to at least take one pokemon down before he died which is all I wanted from that slot anyways. But I will try to re ladder when I decide to with a set up sweeper like you suggested I have had good results with volcarona and others just nothing to push into top 20, alakazam got it done. I simply needed a special attacker who could pull his weight and he did fine, but I shall try what you suggested. Thanks
  20. HasKal

    HasKal

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    16
    A point I want to make is one that I think a lot of people have missed here, thats the surprise factor of this team. Very few people will expect to have 3 sashes in a team, especially the ones on Terrakion and Breloom. And I guess by the time the opponent realizes what's happening, it might be too late.

    Though with the emphasis put on laying down on hazards, even by newer players, and the ubiquity of burn and toxic, you could run into potential pitfalls.

    The suggestion of a Scarfer is really good, and could give your team the lift it needs to go #1.
  21. thenewguy24

    thenewguy24

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Thank you and I agree I may try switching out Alakzam for a scarfmon and see how that goes. The surprise factor does play a huge role with the sashes as you mentioned such as breloom netting a nice surprise kill on a starmie either expecting a switch or just attacking.
  22. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,484
    Hey thenewguy24,

    Well it seems like Electrolyte and the gang have given you plenty of possible suggestions, most of which I agree with (Scarf Terrakion, Bulky Starmie, etc.). But I do notice that because of your reliance on Focus Sashes, you have a hard time against hail and sand teams, since they can break the Sashes and proceed to set up and sweep your team. Your dependence on Focus Sashes makes keeping sand and hail away absolutely necessary. A possible solution to this would be to find room on the Bulky Starmie set for Rain Dance. This gives you a way to cancel out people's weather that could otherwise harm you. This will allow you to more easily revenge kill with your Pokémon, and suits the support-nature of your new Starmie set quite well.

    Hope I was of some help, though I think most of the teams problems have been ironed out by other users. Good luck with the team!
  23. thenewguy24

    thenewguy24

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
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    I appreciate the rate man and ya the majority of my teams problems have been covered through previous posts though its always nice to see new insight. As far as sandstorm is concerned the only poke who loses its sash from sandstorm is breloom...who anyways main role is to spore someone so if he does go down after the sash due to sand ill be happy if he incapacitates an opponents poke. As for hail...I "lol". Not only is hail extremely rare if not non existent among the higher ranked players, if at all I were to face a hail team between bullet punch, mach punch, terrakion, mamo stone edge/superpower hail teams dont stand a chance. I'll look into possibly adding a weather move, maybe sunny day, on starmie to mess up other weather teams as sun teams tend to be very easy to handle. Thanks again for the rate man!
  24. thenewguy24

    thenewguy24

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
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    29
    Video Logs are up check them out for yourself
  25. jpw234

    jpw234

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    149
    Looking at the ideas behind this team, you have major trouble against any competent hail player, whether they're running offense or stall. Any decent hail team is going to have two solid counters to Terrakion, Breloom, other fighting moves, etc. (it's not mono-ice). The guy you played in the hail replay you posted was laughably incompetent, like I was almost screaming at him through my monitor. I like the idea of Rain Dance on Starmie, perhaps go with that. If I was playing this team I'd probably be willing to sac Abomasnow or at least play very loose with him since you don't have a weather setter, so you could probably screw up hail teams with that.

    More generally you have major problems with stall. You have some heavy hitters, but no set-up sweepers outside of Scizor (who you've handicapped with bad coverage by running U-Turn, although I understand your reasoning). Understand that every stall team is fully aware that they're going to need to be able to take hits from stronger pokemon than what you have on your team so a well constructed stall team is probably going to mess you up. I'd suggest some sort of stallbreaker mon - perhaps the Sub-Hone Claws Kyurem-B that was running around earlier? As far as who to replace, I'm not really sure what you use Alakazam for, so that would be my gut feeling, although if you really need him for the special side of things then maybe Scizor.

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