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Project Neverused: Revival

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by Django, Jul 3, 2012.

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Django is a loser y/n

  1. y

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  1. Django

    Django
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    Similarly, what reasons are there to use it over the regular Regirock? Which particular Pokemon can it help it beating? It's certainly interesting, just needs a bit more explanation.
  2. Elegy96

    Elegy96

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    While we're discussing Regirock, check this out. This isn't my set, but it works wonders:

    Spelunk (Regirock) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Slide
    - Drain Punch
    - Psych Up

    Need a counter to Braviary, or any set-up physical sweeper (besides Gurdurr) for that matter? Look no further than this guy. Very few physical attacks, even at +2 will be able to 2HKO or even 3HKO Regirock. So just let the opponent set up as much as you dare, then steal their boosts with Psych Up. Very few people see this coming. Rock Slide is chosen over Stone Edge because of more PP, Drain Punch is for recovery. Another attacking move can be used over Stealth Rock but I use it for the utility.
    I've used this set against things like Curse Miltank and SubBU Braviary and it works well. It's not without faults, though. Sub-Disable Haunter can beat it with ease, as can powerful special attackers like Ludicolo, but then again that's true with all Regirock.
  3. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

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    [pimg]595[/pimg]
    Carracosta @ Liechi Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Spe/252 Atk/4Hp
    Adamant Nature
    - Shell Smash
    - Stealth Rock/Waterfall
    - Aqua Jet
    - Stone Edge


    This is more of underrated as I ripped it from the smog.Basicly you shell smash until the opponent puts you to sturdy,and activates liechi berry.now you are +3Atk/+2 Spe at least and ready to sweep if you chose waterfall you have amazing triple STAB,With +3 Stone Edge guerentees the OHKO on amoongus aqua jet also OHKOs faster things like cincinno and swellow,Stealth Rock can be chosen if you meet a foul end and you want to die with a bang.Waterfall KOs stuff like Gurdurr wich dont take too much from aqua jet and resist stone edge
  4. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Something to note is that Liechi Berry Carracosta does worse against Amoonguss if it switches in when Carracosta uses Shell Smash. Carracosta's Liechi Berry would not be activated and then you would only do 65-77% with Stone Edge. If Carracosta has Life Orb, you do 84-100% with Stone Edge, meaning you have a 1% chance of OHKO'ing. Stealth Rock on the field makes it a much higher chance.
  5. Shuckleking87

    Shuckleking87 "Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
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    If he is using the carracosta set, i would assume there were no stealth rocks on his side of the field, or he was at 100% HP, otherwise the set would not make any sense. So when Amoonguss switches in, carracosta is at +2 attack without leichi berry at full health. so why wouldn't he use shell smash again if another poke is asleep, as amoonguss cannot ohko. Then he would be at +5 attack with 1 hp left (assuming the opponent doesn't use body slam), and stone edge would always kill (of course unless it doesn't hit). Life orb would just ruin hit sturdy, he'd be better running solid rock in that case. Or not even setting up while an amoonguss is on the opponent's team. That just wouldn't make any sense setting up if you know amoonguss can foil your strategy with spore. I mean some common sense applies (yet again, body slam amoonguss..). But what about running the novel idea of lum berry on carracosta? If amoonguss tries to spore, you have lum berry to awaken you and then be at +4 with sturdy still in tact, and then fire off a stone edge which will kill max defensive amoonguss 87.5% of the time? Of course, the fact that this carracosta would be to attempt to counter amoonguss is crazy in and of itself.
    Also, the damage formula gives up to 16 different randomly generated amounts of damage a poke can give, so DTC, it is impossible for a poke to have a 1% chance of OHKO, but rather 6.25% would be the lowest.
  6. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    It is very unlikely for both Stealth Rock not being up and Amoonguss not using Spore. That situation is heavily geared towards Carracosta for the sake of argument and will often not happen in an actual game. The point is that Life Orb does better against Amoonguss. Not that Liechi Berry can get past Amoonguss if certain field conditions are not present in any given match.

    As for the damage calculation tidbit:

    [​IMG]


    It might be the case of this damage calculator being retarded.

    Edit:

    <&DTC> is kalashinov retarded
    <&Djangoo> yes

    ok
  7. Django

    Django
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    Just to clear something up, it would be a 1/16 chance, not 1% as the calculator states

    This basically means there are 16 possible damage outcomes. Source.
  8. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

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    Well,their is no reason for amoongus to not go for the drain and heal off damage and KO and waste spore on something it usualy would beat and then save spore for something more threatning,like Emboar.Also lol,Physicaly defensive Amoongus?Amoongus is better Specialy Defensive as It tanks special hits with that spread well.And also beating Physicaly defensive Amoongus after sleep foder is just a little pick as Sawk is really easy anti hazard pokemon that WILL do its job and if you use something like it or Armaldo its hard for the opponent to get rocks up also,It should Always be used in the lead position as it works the best as a leadsmasher.
  9. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken
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    NU Co-Leader

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    If you haven't used up Spore, it actually makes a lot more sense logically to Spore something that a) has Sturdy so you can't OHKO it regardless of what you do and b) is already at +2 / +2 / +2. From then on you can use Giga Drain and actually jump back out of KO range for +3 Stone Edge, since the KO mentioned in the article takes SR damage into account. Physically defensive Amoonguss is the standard and has always been the standard spread - your reasoning for why a specially defensive spread is faulty in itself, as I could very well say the same for the physical spread. I don't understand the latter part of your post, nor do I understand how it is related.

    Bottom line - LO Carracosta performs much better against Amoonguss and co, while Liechi Carracosta is best against more offensive teams. Both variants have their own strengths and weaknesses.
  10. Oiawesome

    Oiawesome

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    Just posting to say why do you use LO smash costa?One of its niche's is Sturdy with Shell smash and LO and Sturdy are counter productive together and Solid Rock is meh as after Shell Smashes drops and Swift Swim forces a rain team around 'Costa or have a useless abillity,so IDK but LO dosent seem good on 'Costa to me.JS.But I respect evreybodys oppinions and I do not hope to start a Carracosta argument.
  11. FLCL

    FLCL
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    you can use solid rock with life orb carracosta. it actually gives carracosta really good bulk and allows it to survive random earthquakes and even volt switches before the def drops. life orb gives carracosta amazing power and allows it to ohko many walls including amoonguss after stealth rocks, which the liechi set cannot achieve without being at low health.
  12. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Another thing to note that while Liechi does have the advantage of sweeping without worry of wearing itself down by Life Orb recoil, it does have a few downfalls that explain why it's not instantly the dominant set. Life Orb has the advantage of instant power, so if you need your Carracosta to check a faster threat with Aqua Jet or hit something with Waterfall or Stone Edge, Life Orb's power has your back. Life Orb's power can also be accessed at any point of Carracosta's life unlike Liechi, which only activates once Carracosta gets to 25% or less HP. (Although Sturdy helps here) Like Oiawesome said, Life Orb Carracosta doesn't take advantage of Sturdy nearly as well as Liechi does, however it's not Carracosta's only ability. Carracosta still has access to the amazing Solid Rock ability which many Pokemon would die to have. This ability also gives Carracosta an easier time setting up as it lowers the damage of super effective attacks, and like in the situation of Liechi Berry's health activation requirement vs Life Orb, Solid Rock is active at all times that Carracosta is out on the field. Solid Rock can help it set up and even clean up afterwards such as in the situation of post-Shell Smash Carracosta tanking a Gurdurr's Mach Punch so it can take it down with +2 Waterfall.
  13. Mysterious Trainer

    Mysterious Trainer

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    [​IMG]
    Sawk @ Life Orb
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
    Jolly/Adamant Nature
    - Bulk Up
    - Close Combat
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch

    Once again I'm rather at a loss for words to explain 'why'... I guess why not? All possible scenarios aside this can really get the jump on Ashroomuss switch-ins before sleep foddering a 'non-essential' team mate as such(believe me... there is more merit than this). All around it's just incredibly useful with life orb and bulk up helps.
  14. Brammi

    Brammi

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    They are weighted towards the lower damages. You are more likely to get one of the lower damage rolls than the higher ones. Unless that has changed since gen 4.
  15. Donphantastic

    Donphantastic

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    Jorah (Ursaring) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Bulk Up
    - Sleep Talk
    - Rest
    - Return

    As this set is based off SubBU Braviary, and people will claim it is outclassed by it, i will list the pros and cons and give my conclusion.
    Pros:
    -No fear of status (increases damage because of guts, and when damage builds up, just rest)
    -Sleep talk return does 1.5x damage, due to Guts boosting attack while asleep.
    -No speed investment needed>more bulk
    -Higher attack (although this is a very small difference)
    -Surprise factor can make setting up easier
    -Attacking move does not have recoil
    -Hits harder off the bat, especially when statused by rest/enemy status move
    -Is an effective status absorber, even sleep/paralysis.
    -Fewer weaknesses

    Cons:
    -Lower speed
    -No Substitute to take super effective hits
    -Recovery is less reliable
    -Completely walled by Ghosts
    -Walled by Bastiodon, Lairon and other Rock/Steel types until extreme stat boosts.
    -If Braviary has Brave Bird, it's one attacking move is more powerful.
    -Less HP
    -Needs a trapper to get rid of ghosts

    I may have forgotten some things, feel free to point them out.
    To conclude I'd like to say that i think Ursaring outclasses Braviary when both using Return, while Braviary may statistically be the better option when it uses Brave Bird, but Ursaring definitely has his advantages ver Braviary, especially the lack of staus vulnerability, and surprise effect.
  16. buddhism

    buddhism

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    [​IMG]

    Probopass @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 24 HP / 232 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Earth Power
    - Power Gem
    - Stealth Rock

    This is similar to the offensive Probopass set on Smogon but the EVs and nature are different. Air Balloon allows you to avoid ground-type attacks and set up Stealth Rocks on many things. Max SpA maximizes your damage output and 232 Spe EVs allow you to outspeed a few pokemon that threaten it, which is pretty crucial to 2HKO quite a few pokemon. The rest of the EVs then go into HP.
  17. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    What are some of the Pokemon that spread outspeeds? For something that appreciates its bulk like Probopass, it's hard sell a set that sacrifices most of said bulk for a generally less important stat. I am genuinely interested, but I would like to know the specifics.
  18. Mymom234

    Mymom234

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    [​IMG]
    Combusken @ Red Card
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Speed/ 252 Attack/ 4 HP
    Adamant Nature (+A -SpA)
    -Sky Uppercut
    -Swords Dance
    -Protect
    -Substitute


    I just started in the NU tier and this set works very well. You are most likely thinking, WTF is a red card? Red Card is an item that switches out the opponent's pokemon when attacked, similarly to the move roar. 252 Speed EVs allow you to outspeed alot, so use substitute when combusken is first sent out. If you are attacked, watch as the opponent struggles to counter your genius strategy. If you aren't attacked, use swords dance and start your sweeping. Good at predicting what the opponent will do next? Then this set is for you.
  19. Ewil

    Ewil

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    i suggest to run Flare Blitz/Fire Punch over Protect/Sub. Having only a Fight-Type move makes Combusken useless against Ghost-Type.
    The Red Card strategy can be a good one, idk if it activates behind a sub, but if yes you can abuse this strategy to boost with SD. If not, i suggest to run Protect.
  20. Mymom234

    Mymom234

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    Fire punch probably is a better idea, now that i have encountered so many teams with haunter on them. Red card does work behind a sub.
  21. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Snover @ Eviolite
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain

    With Hail newly reintroduced in NU, Snover is a must-have on your Hail team. Many many people think that he's dead weight on your team, and I thought that too until using this set. Snover actually has this very small niche of being capable of absorbing most Special attacks. He can succesfully counter Special Samurott and Ludicolo, as Ludi can cause problems to Hail teams by setting up Rain. Ludicolo has to use non-STAB Ice Beam which is neutral on Snover, so it doesn't do too much. SubSeed is a common strategy and can help my sweepers, and is deadly paired with StallRein. Blizzard is mandatory on him, while Giga Drain is STAB. The EVs and Nature have been tailored to make him resistant on the Special side. Feel free to use this Snover set on your Hail team!
  22. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    I recommend using Protect over Substitute on that Snover set. Protect allows Snover to scout the opponent, which is very useful when against hail threats like Sawk and Emboar, as well as inflict more passive damage on the enemy from hail, Leech Seed, and Toxic (Spikes) if you opt to use them. Substitute does not work as well as one would think because Snover struggles to set up with its atrocious Speed as well as its inability to threaten the majority of the tier. Snover generally is a fairly useless Pokemon; its niche of beating offensive Water-types is not as stellar as I originally thought, partly due to how ineffective it is at executing said niche when weakened a little bit. I find its best use is for scouting what the opponent will use, as well as passively damaging the opponent.
  23. tennisace

    tennisace
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    Try using it as a check to Electric and Grass types then DTC. It's actually really bulky with eviolite (well, anything with eviolite is), and it takes special hits really well when you factor in resistances. It's far from dead weight on my current Hail team when I need it, though admittedly I'll often sac it for momentum if I don't see an opposing weather inducer.

    Also, Scarf Braviary is really really good again, since everyone and their mother are using Sawk or Emboar as their Fighting-type. Braviary can surprise a lot of people expecting it to be slow, and it's still plenty powerful.
  24. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Snover does not perform particularly well against most Grass- and Electric-types: most have access to coverage moves (which there are numerous of) that do significant damage to Snover. One of the biggest flaws in using Snover to check anything is its plateau of weaknesses that are easy to take advantage of, as well as the fact that Snover will have to tank two attacks from pretty much everything you want it to beat. Combine that with Stealth Rock and you may just be out of luck. Snover's contributions to a hail team tend to be passive (residual damage, scouting) rather than direct (weakened/defeating Pokemon).

    Choice Scarf Braviary is going to go through phases all of the time. It will always be good, but of course it is much better when people stop expecting it, or to take advantage of metagame changes.
  25. JirachiCelebiMew

    JirachiCelebiMew

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    Wow, thanks, DTC! I will certainly try Protect after school. And yeah, I use Toxic Spikes on my team. Tentacool is actually awesome in NU Hail. Has some nice resistances, and can Spin and set up Hazards.
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