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Project Neverused

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by tennisace, May 10, 2012.

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  1. Tahu

    Tahu

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    I'll admit that set's better than mine. But doesn't 84 Speed only tie with Golem?
  2. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Well, it could work, but Scraggy is quite slow even after a Dragon Dance, not even able to outrun base 100 speed pokemon. and even at +2 its unable to outrun scarf sawk by like 1 point. 130 Bp HJK is fun though, and it could run both drain punch and HJK and not be limited to ice punch.

    do you have any logs of it being effective?
  3. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    That Steel trapping Probo set looks absolutely amazing erisia. I'm definitely going to try it. I completely forgot Probo had Magnet Pull, it's the better ability for it by far.

    BU Scraggy is good, it needs a lot of support but if it can get a BU for free it can be game over much like Gurdurr. I'm not convinced by DD Scraggy though, it's just too slow and frail even if it is powerful.
  4. tennisace

    tennisace ium's avatar is his butt on my face
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    I still don't see the point when: the only Steel-types are other Probopass / Bastiodon / LOL METANG SUX. In exchange, you lose the ability to cripple Sawk or anything else with a Fighting-type move 1v1 with Thunder Wave (or guarantee SR) if Sturdy isn't broken. If there were more Steel-types than Rock-types I would be more apt to use the set, but you can't even pair it with Swellow and guarantee its checks disappear (unlike how Dugtrio was able to eliminate a weakened Regirock).
  5. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    Sturdy isn't that useful though, it's great on Sawk but on a defensive Pokemon I would never let it take an OHKO move early game when I need it for its bulk. And lategame it is likely to be broken by hazards or whatnot anyway.

    I just think on paper Magnet Pull looks far more useful because I never allow Sturdy to come into effect when I play anyway. Of course I'll have to try it first but removing Bastiodon or severely damaging other Probo sounds great to me.
  6. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Yeah, I was trying to avoid Speed creep.

    I agree with the sentiment that Steel types have seen a massive drop in popularity recently, but they still put a full-stop to any Swellow sweeps, so I don't think a Steel-trapping Probopass is out of the question. Forgive me if this is a poor analogy, but it's kind of like how teams would use Magnezone with Dragonite that only use STAB and Earthquake so that you could take out Skarmory.

    If you really wanted to, you could also use Thunder Wave over Volt Switch to avoid any loss in functionality caused by that, as although that kind of kills its momentum against offensive teams, it traps other Probopass and Bastiodon more effectively while still providing Paralysis and hazards support. I'd probably slash Thunder Wave with Volt Switch if I were to write this up.
  7. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    He meant Dugtrio can trap Regi whereas Probo can only trap rare Steels.
  8. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Oh yeah, derp. -_-
  9. tennisace

    tennisace ium's avatar is his butt on my face
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    Yeah the Dugtrio reference was to the original NU metagame from November/December where we still had Dugtrio and Swellow was rampant, since you could stack Spikes/Tspikes to wear down and eliminate all of the Steel-types AND Rock-types (You had Scolipede to lay Spikes and the steels were Magneton and Klinklang, so it was worth it).

    However, Probopass can only trap other Probopass, Bastiodon, and lolMetang, while Swellow still loses to Golem, Regirock, Gigalith, and sometimes Armaldo, none of which Probopass can trap. It's a nice set in theory, but Probopass is #31 in usage (#49 in 1200), Bastiodon is #47 (#36 in 1200), and Metang is #63 (lol #76 with less than 100 uses). The next Steel-type after that is the MIGHTY KLANG, at #186 with 180 uses. I think these stats speak for themselves with the usefulness of Magnet Pull.

    Lets talk about actually good sets, like that CB Cinccino Alex Arthur sniped from me. I've been using it for a week and a half? or something and it's really good. It's better than CB Tauros because it's faster than basically everything in the metagame, it has U-turn for momentum (so that you can U-turn when they bring in Tangela or a Rock-type and keep it out), and multi-hit moves absolutely wreck Substitute mons without a priority attack (fuck you Kadabra and Haunter). It's really good for some scouting early-game, quick kills mid-game, and mop-up duty late game. Just be sure to get rid of Tangla somehow.
  10. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

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    CB Cincinno sounds good, but one of its biggest draws is its great coverage. I wonder if it really is worth it over Life Orb when Cincinno isn't surviving much anyway so it doesn't mind the recoil. It's hard to switch into partly because of power but mainly because it has a move to hit most things super effectively. The biggest problem with Cincinno is still it's kinda unreliable, I can't wait for when Skill Link is released.
  11. tennisace

    tennisace ium's avatar is his butt on my face
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    Going to make this very clear:

    -DISCUSS THE SETS ALREADY POSTED.
    -STOP POSTING NEW SETS UNTIL TOMORROW.
    -DISCUSS WHICH SETS ARE GOOD AND DESERVE TO BE ADDED TO THE OP, AND WHICH SETS ARE NOT SO GOOD.
    -DO NOT POST LISTS OF ALL SETS POSTED WITH A WORTHLESS COMMENT, PICK A COUPLE YOU HAVE USED OR SEEN IN BATTLE AND EXPLAIN STUFF ABOUT THEM IN-DEPTH.

    Failure to follow this post will result in me deleting you from life.
  12. Amarillo

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    I faced dtc using this set against my stall team, and I gotta say this deserves more credit than people might initially give. DTC paired it with a sleep powdering Grass-type, which incapacitated my Lickilicky. In general, considering the 'standard' stall build, Garbodor / Lickilicky is best suited to handle grass-types, so Sleep Powder user + Seviper really kind of forces your opponent to let Garbodor sleep and not lay down much hazards.

    Also, I'd say the set will be much more effective with a Rash / nature. As of now, your set barely misses out the 2HKO on Garbodor, a common stall member. Might seem small (and you may ask 'what can it do back other than weak rock blast') but the weak rock blast does make the difference, as Seviper is very frail, and can't afford to take 2 hits.

    Now that I've sung its praise, I gotta ask one simple question: what does this mixed attacker do any better than, ya know, mixed Samurott, mixed Eelektross, or some other? They're not seen that much, either...
  13. Steamroll

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    Seviper has more speed than eelektross, and can actually outspeed some key pokemon (COUGH EXEGGUTOR COUGH).
  14. bean1706

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    I used a similar Seviper set some time ago and it did alright, although it is quite frail. I ran Sucker Punch over Flamethrower to pick of some faster pokes which came in handy a couple of times. Flamethrower only really helps against Cryogonal but I doubt it will be koing that any time soon.
  15. Keiran

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    I would consider using a Naughty Nature and Fire Blast in the last slot; now Gabite can get past physically defensive Tangela with a little bit of prior damage and prediction. It also allows Gabite to get past Wormadam-steel if that's your style...

    4 SpAtk Gabite Fire Blast vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Tangela: 40.72% - 48.5%​

    Or if opposing the Tangela uses a specially defensive spread, Outrage can 2 hit KO with SR on the field.

    252 Atk Choice Band Gabite (+Atk) Outrage vs 252 HP/0 Def Eviolite Tangela (+Def) : 40.42% - 47.9%​

    edit: A Naive Nature could be used to outspeed Jolly CB Braviary
  16. Lady Shinki

    Lady Shinki

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    CB Cincinno looks really solid. A strong U-turn goes a long way in a tier like this, as does breaking everything's subs and being fairly reliable vs. sub Haunter.


    edit: might as well post the set i've been messing with, works to great effect with a bit of support.

    Throh @ Leftovers
    96 HP/244 SpDef/168 Spe
    Careful / Guts

    Substitute
    Bulk Up
    Protect
    Circle Throw

    This set is literally amazing. Trade in the ability to hit ghosts to run the Sub+Protect combo. It can set up substitutes on Vileplume's Sludge Bomb and any weaker special attack, and it can also set up on tanky Regirock, Armaldo, Garbodor, and the like. Doesn't like Haze or ghost-types for obvious reasons, but it outspeeds almost all the common users of Toxic, Roar, AND Clear Smog and sets up Substitutes on them while Protecting for recovery/toxic damage/choice scouting. The main reason this set works is because his substitute (and by extension himself as well) can survive a stupidly wide variety of attacks from bulky walls. Quagsire, unfortunately, always breaks your sub with EQ, but you can still stall for passive damage or phaze him out. The problem with this set is that it can still be worn down by powerful Choice Banders/Choice Specs pokemon if his sub gets broken, but any kind of slow bulky booster has that problem. Speed EVs put it above the base 65 walls Alomomola and Flareon, and the HP EVs let him make 101 HP Subs with 1 extra hit point. He needs very specialized pursuit support that can beat all the levitating ghosts guaranteed, as each ghost has different ways to get around Pursuit trapping, but if you can eliminate them before you put Throh on the battlefield, then you just might easily sweep through the opponent's team. The more hazards there are, the better, though SR is especially important to limit Flying-type switch-ins and Toxic Spikes let you SubTect vs. annoying things like Magmortar that will take a massive chunk of your health if they come in when you don't have a Sub up. Keeping the Sub up is most important, even more than trying to set up more (which is why some of the physical calcs assuming defense boosts are actually relevant, because they're really easy to get) because with how NU is looking today, you can set up an unbreakable Sub vs. at least two pokemon on the other team, guaranteed, and you can get your boosts at your leisure. I suppose if you really wanted to you could take some SpDef and put it in Def instead so that it you could absolutely laugh at Quagsire and physical attackers like Golem while setting up, but the special defense is much more useful imo.

    Example calcs:

    Physical attacks:
    Offensive Tank Regirock Earthquake (+1 Def): (19.01% - 22.47%)
    Garbodor Gunk Shot (+1 Def): (23.21% - 27.65%)
    Miltank Body Slam: (20.25% - 23.95%)
    Lickilicky Body Slam: (23.70% - 28.15%)
    Lead Golem Earthquake (+2 Def): (22.96% - 26.91%)
    Tank Torterra Wood Hammer (+2 Def): (20.74% - 24.69%)
    Jolly LO Cinccino Tail Slap (+2 Def): (8.89% - 10.62%) per hit

    Special attacks:
    Tank Vileplume Sludge Bomb: (20.25% - 23.95%)
    Tangela Giga Drain: (16.30% - 19.26%)
    Timid Rotom-S Volt Switch: (20.00% - 23.70%)
    Torrent-active Wartortle Scald (lol): (18.52% - 21.73%)
    Defensive Spinner Cryogonal Ice Beam: (19.51% - 23.21%)

    Attacks that you'd think would kill the bastard for sure (that don't):
    Timid Specs Gardevoir's Psychic: (84.94% - 100.74%) (hello, 2% chance to 1hko)
    Modest Specs Magmortar's Overheat: (72.84% - 85.93%)
    Solar Power Charizard's Fire Blast (in sun): (77.28% - 91.11%)
    LO Ludicolo's Hydro Pump (in rain): (64.69% - 76.30%)
    +2 Timid Gorebyss Hydro Pump: (71.11% - 83.70%)
  17. Zacharias

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    Mightyena (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Thunder Fang
    - Ice Fang

    This set is intended to attempt a late-game sweep. With Ice and Thunder Fang, Mightyena gets a pseudo BoltBeam. Cruch for primary STAB, and Sucker Punch for priority.

    Even with a Scarf and an Adamant nature, Mightyena still fails to outspeed a few common pokemon. A Jolly nature could patch that up a bit, but then he loses out on some needed power.

    I've been using this set for a while now, and I've been very impressed by it. I do not have any calcs for this set, but it does have some power behind it, even from the start.
  18. FLCL

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    Sucker Punch with Choice Scarf is a bad idea; I would replace it for Fire Fang, Return, or Pursuit. Another option would be to use Sucker Punch with Life Orb since it already has priority and Mightyena really needs the extra power.
  19. tennisace

    tennisace ium's avatar is his butt on my face
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    So I updated the OP. I'm going to try and direct this thread a little bit more. For the next four days, post sets for all the categories. That means until Saturday, May 19th. Then from Sunday, May 20th to Tuesday, May 22nd, discuss the sets posted, but don't post any more sets! Lets see how this works out.
  20. Full2Half

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    [​IMG]
    Miltank @Life Orb
    Trait: Scrappy/Thick Fat
    Evs: 252 Atk 252 Spe 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    -Frustration
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Punch
    -Stealth Rock


    At first, this set doesn't look like much, but after I have tested it extencively, it has proven to be surprisingly fantastic. It isn't particularly strong, but between the surprise factor and good coverage, miltank can be a great offensive SR setter. With suprisingly high speed, miltank can deal with threats like golem and bulky cryogonal. If you opt for scrappy, miltank can deal with haunter much easier. With thick fat, he can live a few extra hits. It is mainly meant to set up rocks quickly as a lead and go berserk on unsuspecting threats. Drifblim is OHKOed by both ice punch and frustration after rocks.
  21. No Luck Involved

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    There is a very similar set already on-site. I'm not too sure offensive Miltank really wants to be burdened with SR and it won't be lasting very long with mediocre power, mediocre bulk and LO recoil. If Scrappy is the prefered ability then I think Frustration and EQ are enough coverage, Miltank could afford to have Milk Drink or Heal Bell in place of Ice Punch.

    Personally I prefer the Sap Sipper set with Double-Edge, EQ, Punishment and Milk Drink. It has a chance to get a free +1 on Tangela or other Sleep Powder spammers and it can be very hard to switch into thanks to its power and speed and with Milk Drink it brings the pain again and again.
  22. TROP

    TROP *tips fedora*
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    Time for the best set of all time, a relic from a time back in round 1 when I joked about this(never expected it to actually be good) as a way for Absol to remove two of its best counters in the tier:

    [​IMG]Absol (Absol) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Super Luck
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Fire Blast/ Hidden Power[Grass]
    - Night Slash
    - Sucker Punch
    - Superpower

    It works like your average Absol but it has a twist, the twist is picking what you want to remove from the game that are usually accepted as decent switch-ins to Absol such as Tangela and Quagsire that unless they come in a Sucker Punch will be taking enough damage to get in KO range for the special move. This set is best used as a lure to clear the field for pokemon such as CB Sawk or a Physical set up sweeper as Absol can eliminate what can stop them easily with the special move that more often than not will eliminate the target because an Absol using a special move is something extremely rare that nobody really sees coming until it is a too late. Justified can be used too as Superpower is legal with it, but Dark moves are not really common out of Absol itself and Skuntank and the chance of Night Slash critting at the right time is nice sometimes. Evs are simple, hit as hard with Absol's physical moves as possible,while risking at worst a speed tie with other Absol instead of flat out losing to any Absol with more speed if the spread was one like the ones from the current onsite analysis it also means you can revenge thing such as Samurott easily, and 4 sp.A evs are enough to get the special move job done for more details on this see the calcs section at the end.

    Just a small note: never use both special attacks, while it may sound tempting at first it means you will have to give up something that Absol will really miss, if you remove Night Slash you wont be able to beat a weakened Musharna that is something you really don't want to survive and set up for long, Superpower could be the move you don't need as often if you pair it with something like Sawk but Absol removing Probopass by itself after it comes in a predicted Sucker Punch/ Night Slash is something a rare Dragon-type such as Fraxure will appreciate as you can easily eliminate 2 of its best counters without trying at all , and Sucker Punch removes what Absol does best revenge killing.


    Just 4 spA evs are needed if you use it like a regular Absol until Tangela or Quag comes out (open)
    Tangela
    Fire Blast: 238-282 (71.25 - 84.43%)
    in the switch wso you can eliminate it next turn
    Superpower: 82-97 (24.55 - 29.04%)
    Night Slash: 72-85 (21.55 - 25.44%)
    So asumming Stealth Rock is up, you can eliminate Tangela guaranteed without worrying about low damage rolls.

    Quagsire:
    Hidden Power Grass: 292-348 (74.11 - 88.32%)
    In the switch so you can eliminate it next turn:
    Night Slash: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.59%)
    Superpower: 149-176 (37.81 - 44.67%)
  23. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    MANtine is the bomb. Not the specially defensive set. That's not manly. I'm talking about Rain Dance.

    [​IMG] @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 60 HP / 252 SpA / 196 Spe
    Modest nature
    - Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power Flying

    Mantine is a very good (standalone) rain sweeper. It can easily use Rain Dance thanks to its excellent Special Defense stat and then fire off powerful Hydro Pump's. Unlike most other rain sweepers, it doesn't even lose to Ludicolo. The EV's are made to outrun Rotom-S while giving Mantine the most HP and Special Attack possible. You can also use Damp Rock > Life Orb and a more bulkier set. I was using a triple Rain Dance sweeper team of Mantine / Ludicolo / Seismitoad and it worked out well. Ludicolo and Seismitoad hold Life Orb and went almost all out in Speed while Mantine used 252 HP and Damp Rock to double as a reliable Rain Dance setter and a sweeper if you need it in a pinch.

    Another great underrated Pokemon is Piloswine. It can run quite a lot of sets effectively, but this one is my favorite:

    [​IMG]@ Eviolite
    Trait: Oblivious (Thick Fat once it comes out)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Icicle Spear

    This set gives Piloswine a perfect mixture of power and bulk. Stealth Rock and priority in Ice Shard is very useful in the NU tier, especially when backed by amazing bulk. Ice/Ground is also a brilliant offensive typing, although not the best defensively. Icicle Spear is another good move, especially in this meta where Sturdy and Substitute users are very common. You could also use 252 Def and Impish > Adamant, but I prefer the extra power. You lose the ability to hard check Sawsbuck (you still lose if you get bad icicle spear rolls), but you do around 60% anyways. You can't beat Leafeon, though.

    Piloswine in general needs more love. It's great - use it.
  24. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    I'm just using theorymon here, but this looks like an awesome set. It really screws Ludicolo over and has really good synergy with Seismitoad in terms of typing. Just combine with Tail Glow pass Volbeat and you have a sweep on your hands. :D Speaking of which...

    [​IMG]@ Damp Rock
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Rain Dance
    - Tail Glow
    - Baton Pass
    - Encore


    This is the Volbeat I used, and it's sort of a fusion of the existing two sets. Instead of using Thunder Wave, Substitute, etc, Volbeat just goes for pure sweeper support. Using Encore to force switches, passing Tail Glows to self-sustaining bulky sweepers like Ludicolo, Seismitoad and Mantine, and using Rain Dance to help out those that can't, or as a last ditch move before dying.
  25. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Fuck you, pay me
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    I've been toying around with mixed sweepers lately, mainly ones that can take down Tangela / Quagsire / Flareon, as well as Karpman's stall team. That core can other really annoys offensive teams most of the time, so I looked for some more unexpected mixed sweepers. The Seviper earlier posted here was a cool option for that, but it's kinda slow, so I searched for some faster Pokemon as being super slow means offensive teams have an easy time with it. Anyways:

    [​IMG]
    Zebstrika (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Motor Drive
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Wild Charge
    - Hidden Power Grass
    - Overheat
    - Volt Switch / Double Kick

    Originally I just wanted to use this because its Japanese name was the same as that of a certain NU mod, but it turned out to work pretty well. Most Zebstrika are special attackers, but mixed Zebstrika has a more powerful STAB coming of a respectable 100 base Attack instead of base 80 Special Attack. Wild Charge destroys most special walls that can otherwise switch into Zebstrika quite easily, for example Flareon is OHKOed after Stealth Rock. Quagsire and Tangela that would otherwise take physical Electric attacks easily, are KOed by Hidden Power Grass and Overheat respectively: Quagsire takes 79 - 93% and Tangela takes 88 - 104%, a guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (SR is applied after Regenerator!). Volt Switch is probably the best option in the last slot for that precious momentum, but Double Kick can be used as well, as it hits Probopass, Bastiodon, and Zweilous hard. Quick Attack or Pursuit might work there even for the utility, but they are really weak so I don't recommend it. Flame Charge is a good option as it lets Zebraiken be a good cleaner against offensive teams. Not using a Speed-boosting nature might seem weird, but the boost in power is very appreciated and you only miss out on Cinccino, Serperior, offensive Cryogonal and speedtieing with Simipour, which isn't really that much.
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