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Project Ubers 2.0

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Theorymon, May 9, 2012.

  1. SteelCurtain

    SteelCurtain

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    Fast phasing Lugia (you heard it here first)

    Lugia @ leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    Evs: 96 HP / 80 Def / 80 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    -Rest
    -Dragon Tail
    -Roar
    -Sleep Talk

    I call this set Fast Phasing. The idea is to take a hit and then phase the opponent out. After that you rest Lugia to heal off the damage and use sleep talk for the two turns of sleep. Using sleep talk allows you to bypass the -6 priority that dragon tail and roar both have, so Lugia takes no damage for the two turns that it has to phase. Obviously having stealth rock and spikes up is important, so if they have a spinner take it out before attempting this. The ev set is meant to increase speed and defenses as much as possible, though rest-multiscale will protect you better than anything else. naturally this has no finishing power, so use it in the middle of the battle. (Works great with extreme killer arceus
    The weaknesses of this set are, faster pokemon, priority, and taunt. Faster pokemon, (like Mewtwo, Darkrai, or Arceus) can be a problem but you can generally phase them out without too much trouble. Also most scarfed ubers outspeed Lugia, but if multiscale is up it can take most hits, most notably a boltstrike from Zekrom. Priority can be an even larger problem because it defeats the speed phasing idea and breaks multiscale, leaving Lugia exposed (well sort of, it still has its absurd defensive stats). Taunt stops this set dead in its tracks, so watch out for Thundurus and Deoxys s and a, though you can always switch out. Also regenerator generally prevents this set form working effectively, though only for the pokemon with that ability.
    So give it a shot, it's pretty easy to fit on any team with a poke that sets up hazards, and it generally frustrates people.
  2. polop

    polop
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    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    Evs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Substitute
    -Calm Mind
    -Judgment
    -Focus Blast

    This thing is such a notorious stall breaker and lure its not even funny. The only things that can normally wall Calm Mind Ghost Arceus are Chansey and Blissey, and thanks to Substitute, they get turned into setup bait. Substitute has other notable merits too. It lets you heavily dent a revenge-killer, used burned Ferrothorn as setup bait, while also allowing you to abuse what is likely the most common spinner in the game, Sub Split Forretress. That and Substitute is helpful for taking a hit since the chances of Focus Miss hitting is less then 0. It may look like its outclassed by Giratina-O's Sub CM set, but its lack of a Dragon-typing making it tank Dragon Tails really is enough to distinguish it. That and Focus Blast is actually helpful 0_0, it can do stuff like OHKO Tyranitar whereas Giratina-O's Aura Sphere cannot accomplish the same feat. Oh and Ditto has nothing on this / can't revenge it :D.
  3. Olympion

    Olympion

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
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    [​IMG]

    Reshiram
    @ Life Orb
    Trait: Turboblaze
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Flamethrower
    - Dragon Pulse

    This set is the result of me being somewhat underwhelmed by the standard Flame Charge set. After all, even at +1 speed there are still quite a few Scarfers out there that will be able to outspeed and kill Reshiram, not to mention how Kyogre at full health can immediately threaten it out anyway, since even Draco Meteor stands no chance of one-shotting offensive variants, let alone max HP ones. If stealth rocks are up, these switches will quickly take their toll. As such, I find it more useful to have a Sub up than anything else, since it allows me to always get at least one good shot in on the new threat, as well as scout for Scarfers. Life Orb gives Reshiram the extra power I crave, which is where Roost comes in: Normally Sub + Life Orb is a bad idea, but with Roost Reshiram's potential lifespan greatly increases, and it can prove to be a nasty surprise for opponents looking to Life Orb-stall it. Dragon Pulse and Flamethrower take up the last two slots, being strong, reliable moves that take take full advantage of Reshiram's amazing Dual STAB.

    There are several reasons that Reshiram strikes me as uniquely well-suited for this kind of Sub, Life Orb + recovery set. First of all, its Dual STAB is so good that being limited to only two attacking moves is hardly an issue. Because of how dangerous it is, Reshiram also forces a lot of switches, giving it frequent opportunities to Sub (and if your opponent banks on an overprediction and stays in with the like of Ferrothorn or Forretress, then all the better!). The boost it gets from Modest Life Orb gives it such power that very few Pokemon in the Uber metagame can avoid being two-shotted by its attacks, meaning that painful sacrifices will almost always have to be made in order to break the Sub. Finally, Roost not only helps deal with the Life Orb recoil, it also somewhat makes up for Reshiram's weakness to hazards and can in certain situations net it surprising stall war wins; I've managed to stall out several Lugias with this Reshiram (while poisoned from one layer of toxic spikes no less), since Ice Beam or Dragon Tail often does right under 25% damage. Heck, even Ho Oh (provided it lacks Earthquake) can have trouble getting past this set.
  4. Vatii

    Vatii

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    OK I have been playing Uber's for awhile and have been using this particular set the entire time. It is a set that has a 100% (I repeat 100%) Chance of OHKOing Groudon or Kyogre as long as stealth rocks aren't up. It can also OHKO many other important parts of your opponents team. You need a revenge killer that will always work but you don't need it to survive this is your ticket.
    [​IMG]
    Final Gambit Victini
    Victini @ Choice Scarf Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Final Gambit
    - V-create
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Zen Headbutt
    This set is so simple that if you don't get it, well I really haven't found anyone who doesn't get it so I am not sure what that would make them. Silly? I don't know. Anyways the entire point of this set is that you have a Max HP, Max Speed, Choice Scarfed Victini that is basically 404 HP to throw around whenever you want. You want to get rid of that Kyogre that just OHKOed your Genosect with Water Spout? Swap this in and it will out speed even choice scarfed Kyogre, who has at Max HP, OH look! 404 HP. How convenient is that? So you killed it and you die. Well thats OK. You just won your weather war. Well maybe its something else? Is that Lugia being a thorn in your side? With prior damage of just 12HP on a Max HP Lugia you can end its rein as well. Same for that HO-OH as well. Well maybe your running a rain team and that Groudon just needs to die right now. Same thing works there. Well lets say you are running out of pokemon and can't afford to sacrifice Victini. What do you then? Well then you just do what Victini always does, spam V-Create to kill things. Even with no Attack investment a 180 BP stab attack is going to hurt everything. Fusion Bold and Zen Headbutt are there as coverage fillers, neither of them are going to be a bread and butter move for you but when you need them you will be glad you had them.



    In summery this set is good at coming in hard and fast to take out a critical part of your opponents team. And sometimes in Uber's, that is the game deciding move.
  5. polop

    polop
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    [​IMG](Braces self to be yelled at for not suggesting this on Latios analysis (I forgot :())
    Latios @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    Evs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Tailwind
    - Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power Fire / Thunder
    - Grass Knot / Surf / Psyshock / Roost

    Ok so I threatened out an enemy's Kyogre when I was using this thing only to have a Genesect come in the turn after. I used Tailwind the turn it switched in, OHKOed Genesect with Surf and proceeded to sweep.

    Tailwind doubles your speed the turn its used so in the strictest sense you've just made yourself impervious to being revenge-killed by anything for three turns unless its by priority. Giratina-o's Shadow Sneak and Extremekiller Arceus's ExtremeSpeed fail to OHKO unless prior damage is present while you turn around and pummel them to the ground with a Draco Meteor. It flat out OHKOes Giratina-o and deals over 75% to Arceus. It doesn't matter if you get threatened by the two, if you do just switch out and let what just came in finish cleaning up with the free boost to Speed. The ability to switch out and let a Speed boost be retained is what sets Tailwind apart from Dragon Dance. That and you can use Draco Meteor since its not like the Speed boost is going away when you switch out to remove the drop to your Special Attack stat. The rest of the moves cover Steel-types except Psyshock, Grass Knot, and Recover. Psyshock 2HKOes Chansey and Recover just lets you stay alive longer, since Steels are already partially covered by your other two moves. Grass Knot is there for punishing Tyranitar and providing coverage for Sun teams who otherwise is an extreme nuisance since you can't switch out due to Pursuit. Lastly, you can run Modest if you want, but if you can't get Tailwind up and wanna preserve that surprise till late game...

    Oh and this was inspired by Dracoyoshi's Tailwind Rayquaza lol.
  6. Gimili

    Gimili

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    I've found that most Ubers teams lead with Darkrai, and a solid taunt user is capable of such. I've used this Thundurus set to stop many a Darkrai from setting up

    Thundurus @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Prankster
    Evs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Taunt
    - Nasty Plot
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunder / Thunderbolt / Grass Knot

    Taunt makes the dark void the opposing Darkrai usually fires off at first useless. On the switch, Thundurus NP's and boosts his SAtk to fantastic levels. If you see one of Thundurus's counters on the other team, simply switch out. the beauty of this set is that once Darkrai switches in again, Thundurus can OHKO Darkrai with Thunder after Stealth Rock after absorbing a blow with its focus sash. Thunderbolt is the non-rain option, and Grass Knot can be used to OHKO Physically Defensive Groudon at +2. I have tested this, but it must be used correctly for it to function properly.
  7. Faint

    Faint Valar morghulis
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    Darkrai is a bad example. unless the Darkrai has lum, it's going to have sash. it's also going to expect you to have prankster t-wave, so it's going to a. switch out, or b. dark pulse you for the 2hko, while you do nothing to it. drop nplot for thunder wave, and consider hp ice or grass knot > focus blast. you're not beating dialga anyways. grass knot can ohko groudon while hp ice ohko's the 4x dragons etc.
  8. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    Focus Blast has its merit, you do in fact beat Dialga if you're using Sash (49% of the time anyway lol) and moreover it has to decide between attacking you and setting up SR. Also without Focus Blast Excadrill takes a massive dump on you.
  9. Faint

    Faint Valar morghulis
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    I made the assumption that he would taunt lead dialga which is why I said he'd lose to it. Forgot about exca though, that is a good enough reason to use it.
  10. polop

    polop
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    [​IMG](Influenced by Dracoyoshi's Tailwind Rayquaza) Also lol everyone forgot about this guy :P
    Zekrom @ Life Orb
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 Atk / 80 SAtk / 176 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Bolt Strike
    - Draco Meteor
    - Tailwind
    - Outrage / Dragon Claw / Volt Switch / Focus Blast

    Zekrom tends to have issues with Speed, but with BW2 giving this Black Dragon Tailwind, this issue is gone! Zekrom can now abuse that fabulous STAB combination with super speed! The best part is that your basically unwallable (well except Ferrothorn but if you run Focus Blast or HP Fire...) meaning you can wall break and die or... you can Volt Switch out and let a partner continue your mini-sweep! Its like Reshiram except its not screwed by Kyogre and it can actually force stuff out to get a free turn! The only problem is a massive four-moveslot syndrome (well probably a smaller one but I haven't figured out how to perfect the slashes yet (which is why I posted this (for help on it))), but its not that big of a deal. Give it a try, you won't be dissapointed. You can alter the Speed on this spread if you want, the current speed EVs let it outspeed everything up to scarf terrakion after Tailwind. You can also move more EVs into Special Attack to make that Draco Meteor stronger (forgoing Draco Meteor entirely and using another move is also an option) but I perfer the stronger Bolt Strike and the ability to go mixed.
  11. MeteorMiss

    MeteorMiss

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    My favorite set in all of ubers.

    Parashuffling Lugia

    Lugia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind

    This is the best set for paralysis support. This uses the same EV spread as the Great Wall set, to maximize mixed bulk. With Multiscale intact, Lugia is not OHKO'd by any hit in ubers (except a few attacks from turboblaze and teravolt Pokemon, which negate multiscale). It can even beat non-specs kyurem-w one-on-one, as Ice Beam does not OHKO, and Lugia can proceed to T-wave and roost-stall Kyurem, taking less damage due to Roost's mechanics, while waiting for Kyurem to get fully paralyzed; then, it can just phaze kyurem out. Note that specs kyurem-w will OHKO with Ice Beam.

    Generally, once the Lugia is up against a paralyzed opponent, it can simply continue using substitute and roost until the opponent becomes fully paralyzed, then use roost once (without the substitute breaking due to multiscale and often being "grounded"), and then phaze the attacker. For example. Lugia's substitute can survive Mewtwo's ice beam after multiscale and roost, and can therefore just phaze it away.

    Since it has no attacks, it fails against taunt leads such as deoxys-s, and also darkrai leads. However, it can beat non-lead darkrai if it has a substitute up, as it can paralyze then phaze darkrai.

    This Lugia should be used on teams with a slow sweeper or wallbreaker, in order to allow the wallbreaker to outspeed the opposing team. In fact, this Lugia is one of the best teammates to Specs Kyogre.

    While Lugia is effective at spreading paralysis, a smart opponent will continually switch back into a paralyzed pokemon to avoid having the rest of the team paralyzed. Therefore, stealth rock is a necessity, and spikes help too (though toxic spikes prevent the spread of paralysis). This makes ferrothorn a good teammate for Lugia. In addition, a spinblocker is also important to stop the hazards from being removed, since Lugia itself can't do anything to a spinner. Rapid spin support from Keep in mind that Lugia usually loses to darkrai, and all common spinblockers also lose to darkrai. This means that a safe switch-in to darkrai is essential. RestTalk Kyogre is able to switch in easily, whereas Scarf Heracross provides a more offensive counter. Fighting Arceus can also switch in safely.

    Lugia hates any sort of status, so cleric support is helpful. Chansey is able to use Heal Bell, and is also able to effectively wall Kyurem-W, something no other pokemon can claim.
  12. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames

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    Creative sets:

    [​IMG]

    Landorus-T (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Rock Polish
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower

    I used this right after BW2 was released and I was just getting into Ubers again, so I think it's safe to say I started this set. Anyways, offensive Lando-T is absolutely insane. RP is used for late game sweeping, and it is pretty situational and you DO have to do a lot to get it to sweep, but Lando-T rarely actually sweeps anyways. EQ hits like the Wrath of God, able to OHKO things like Palkia after Rocks + Spikes. Stone Edge is for coverage, and although it can't KO Lugia after Rocks, it can after Rocks + residual damage. Superpower does around 90% to Arceus normal, and ES is incapable of OHKOing you at +1. In addition, Landorus is a fantastic Zekrom check and it can easily pressure them to Outrage, and a -1 Zekrom isn't that threatening after it KO's your Landorus-T (or if you switch it out). In short, Lando-T is a fantastic pivot, and can also be used as a surprising wallbreaker (Standard Ferro is OHKO'd by Superpower after Spikes). Speed is for Adamant Exca btw.

    Underrated:

    [​IMG]

    Rayquaza @ Choice Band
    Trait: Air Lock
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Claw
    - V-create
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Earthquake

    Band Ray hits like a truck as well. V-Create 2HKOs 4/0 Ogre WITHOUT hazards, which is just insane. Basically just spam V-create throughout the match, Dragon Claw if you want to predict, or Extremespeed if you need to kill something (and Extremespeed does a crap-ton of damage). Reasonably self explanatory.
  13. jackm

    jackm

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    Toxic Forretress
    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful / Calm Nature
    - Toxic
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball / Volt Switch

    Forretress has always struggled with opposing spinblockers due to its utter lack of offensive presence. Wouldn't it be great if Forretress had a move that crippled Ghost Arceus and non-Restalk Giratina(-O) at the same time? Enter Toxic. If you can predict the switch (it's not terribly hard if you're decent at that kind of thing) you can poison them when their defenses are down, giving them a death sentence. Toxic is also good for miscellaneous other offensive threats, especially if you aren't running Gyro Ball.
  14. Faint

    Faint Valar morghulis
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    I want to quote Theorymon for a second.

    Looking at the last few replies, I'm not seeing any of this. Let me start with "ParaShuffling Lugia." Let's be honest, that set looks incredibly useless. Lugia has it hard enough dealing with Forretress and Ferrothorn setting up on him, so let's not make it any worse. Thunder Wave is a good move in general, so I see the appeal in it, but all you're going to be doing with that set is annoying people. It's never going to win games, unless you have spikes / sr / tspikes on your opponents field with their spinner dead. And that's incredibly unlikely. Excadrill also has fun with you too.

    Moving on. "Toxic Forretress" This is nothing new. Looking at the usage stats, nearly 20% of Forretress carry toxic. You are also suggesting that we run dual hazards, but what about pain split or tspikes? Also Ttrowing SR on Forry should always be done as a last resort. You should almost always have something better to use it, since Forretress shines when setting up either tspikes or spikes. Forry is common alongside Groudon, which is why you often see the Groudon setting up SR.

    I think Porii Sames is a good example on how to format your post, primarily because he says which of the above categories it falls into. Rock Polish Lando-T? We don't see that, therefore he put it as creative. CB Ray? Excellent set, but it doesn't get a lot of usage, therefore he labels it as underrated. I think if more people were to follow this example we could come up with some really excellent sets, and make it easier for people to differentiate between a "creative moveset" and a gimmick.
  15. jackm

    jackm

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    Ok, I didn't realize that Toxic Forretress was so common; my bad. If I may, I'd like to attempt to redeem myself with another set that I feel encompasses the whole "underrated" concept better:

    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Thunder Wave / Toxic
    - Iron Head
    - Wish
    - Stealth Rock / Protect / U-Turn

    SDef Jirachi is incredibly underrated. Under rain, Jirachi can come pretty close to hard countering Mewtwo, as well as being able to counter Kyurem-W (without Specs+Earth Power) and sponge miscellaneous Dragon-type attacks. Jirachi can also provide valuable support to its team in the form of Wish, Thunder Wave, and Stealth Rock if you see fit. Jirachi's ace in the hole, however, is Iron Head. With the combination of Thunder Wave and Iron Head, Jirachi can chip many opponents to death, sponging errant hits with its formidable bulk. One could speed creep, but it's not recommended; Jirachi needs all the bulk it can get, and it already outspeeds the plethora of base 90 stall machines in Ubers.

    EDIT@Princess Bri: Fair point. I slashed it in, if it makes any difference.
  16. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    jackm, instead of paralysis I've found Toxic to be much more useful on Jirachi. It may seem wasteful to give up Iron Head, but its coverage is terrible and Toxic helps a lot more versus a lot of different pokes like CM Arceus.
  17. Kebabe

    Kebabe
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    Specs T-wave Kyogre

    [​IMG]
    Kyogre @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Surf / Hydro Pump
    - Thunder / Water Spout
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder Wave



    If i would categorise this set i would say its just a well known set with a little twist to it. It's just your good old SpecOgre with the addition of T-wave.

    The best Specs Kyogre counters has one common attribute: Their speed. And its their speed that makes them beat Kyogre. The best (only) checks are: Palkia, Latias, Arceus (water and grass) and Sdef Giratina.

    Latias and Arceus way to deal with Kyogre is: switch in, take one move, hit Kyogre hard to weeken water spout if used and recover next tunrn or staight away if they get hit by a Surf for example. If they are T-waved first time they will switch in and get 2HKO:d next time. Scarf Palkia for wxampe can take 1 Thunder/Water Spout but after T-wave and SR its also 2HKO:d. Left is Giratina who doesn't mind T-wave as much(still a bit as it often relies on speed creep to get a fast rest of)but its not like a standrat SpecsOgre has an adge over this one.

    The set and different options:
    Surf is your obligatory STAB-move and hits everything that doesn't resist it really hard. Hydro Pump can be used over Surf for a even more ”specsOgreish” feeling. The increased power is really significant put the 20% risk to miss is something you have to take in consideration as Surf till hits incredibly hard with Specs, STAB, and the rain boost. If Water Spout is used over Thunder Surf should be used as you already have a hard hitting move that also isn't that reliable.

    The decision between Thunder and Water Spout depends on the team. Thunder is more reliable and gives you coverage agains other Kyogres, Lugia and Manaphy. However, if you're confident that you can keep away hazards and feel that you can handle these threats anyway Water Spout should be considered due to its devastating power.


    OLD:
    Show Hide
    Kyogre @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Water Spout
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder Wave

    If i would categorise this set i would say its just a well known set with a little twist to it. It's just you're standard SpecOgre with the addition of T-wave.

    The best Specs Kyogre counters has one common attribute: Their speed. And its their speed that makes them beat Kyogre. The best (only) checks in my opinion are: Palkia, Latias, Arceus (water and grass) and Sdef Giratina.

    Latias and Arceus way to deal with Kyogre is: switch in, take one water spout, hit Kyogre hard to weeken water spout, recover. If they are T-waved first time they switch in they are 2HKO:d next time. Scarf Palkia can take 2 but after T-wave and SR its also 2HKO:d. Left is Giratina who doesn't mind T-wave as much(still a bit as it often relies on speed creep to get a fast rest of)but its not like Thunder would have done more.

    So what do you loose by dropping Thunder, the most common move on Kyogre? You can't hit opposing Kyogres which you have a counter to anyways and to Manaphy which should not be too hard to handle. After all what's most common, a team carrying Manaphy or a Kyogre check?

    The thing thats makes this effective is that Kyogre checks are very obvious so it doesn't require a lot of prediction skill.
  18. Theorymon

    Theorymon ☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄☄
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    This set can work if you don't mind the coverage loss, but I actually preferred replacing Water Spout. I know Water Spout is a huge selling point of Specsogre, and its a shame to lose the amazing KOs you get at full health... but I have to admit that whenever I used an "unusual" Specsogre, the only time I felt like I didn't mind the coverage loss too much was when I was using this with Jirachi and sometimes Ferrothorn on paralysis teams. When ever I used this Kyogre on teams without a reliable way for Kyogre to get it's health back, I preferred getting rid of Water Spout instead so I could deal more damage to Lugia and other Kyogre. I have a personal preference for Twave Life Orb over Specs as well, but Specs Twave does last longer and does admittedly have a nice surprise value if you are willing to support Water Spout and/or are totally fine with having a harder time with other Kyogre.

    That being said though, another "filler move" on Specsogre that is also okay for a few teams is Sleep Talk. It's not great, but it's a big "SCREW YOU" to Darkrai, who annoys a few of my teams, and I feel like losing Water Spout on Specs isn't as big of a deal as Scarf just because the teams I use Sleep Talk Specsogre on aren't the kind of teams that really support it much in the first place, while Scarfogre has a much easier time launching off high powered Water Spouts without too much support early game, even though the reward isn't as great as Specs.
  19. Gimili

    Gimili

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    Ok, I think this set is pretty deserving in Ubers; Choice Band Lucario.

    Lucario @ Choice Band
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Bullet Punch
    - Crunch
    - Ice Punch

    Its utility might not seem obvious at first, but it checks a LOT of non-scarfers in Ubers. Choice Scarf Terrakion is always OHKOed by Bullet Punch, no hazards needed. Bulky Dialga is OHKOed by Close Combat. 4/0 Kyogre is KOed after stealth rock by Close Combat. Bulky Groudon is 2HKOed after Stealth Rock. An insane amount of pokemon are OHKOed after Stealth Rock, such as Palkia, Reshiram, Zekrom, etc. Terrakion might seem to do this job better, but Lucario has 2 main advantages; priority and a way to hit ghost-types. This is so useful its not even funny. Here are the calcs to prove Lucario is viable with a Choice Band

    252Atk Choice Band Lucario Close Combat vs 4HP/0Def Kyogre: 83% - 98% (286 - 337 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252Atk Choice Band Lucario Close Combat vs 252HP/0Def Groudon : 48% - 57% (195 - 231 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 21% chance to 2HKO. 100% after Stealth Rock.

    252Atk Choice Band Lucario Crunch vs 252HP/0Def Giratina: 39% - 46% (200 - 236 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. Garunteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.

    Note that these calcs are Jolly Lucario. Adamant can be used for ridiculous power, but you will be outsped by a lot, so be careful!

    This set is for when Shadow Tag Chandelure is realeased, but what the hell.

    Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Overheat
    - Shadow Ball
    - Energy Ball
    - HP Fighting / HP Ice

    Basically the best revenge killer in the game. There's no question of prediction; no question of what pokemon he might switch into. Chandelure traps and kills all ubers without a Choice Scarf, and while base 80 Speed isn't much, it outspeeds all non-scarfers. You only have to know if your target is scarfed or not to safely switch in. Steel type walling your dragon? Gone. 60% Lugia just killed your Groudon? Outsped and murdered. Not even resists can tank Scarf Sun-fueled Overheats comfortably. If you don't believe me, here are the calcs.

    252SpAtk Chandelure (+SAtk) Overheat in Sun vs 4HP/0SpDef Mewtwo (Neutral): 125% - 148% (445 - 525 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    252SpAtk Chandelure (+SAtk) Overheat in Sun vs 252HP/0SpDef Groudon (Neutral): 110% - 129% (445 - 525 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    252SpAtk Chandelure (+SAtk) Overheat in Sun vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Lugia (+SpDef): 51% - 61% (216 - 255 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Obviously Chandelure has its checks and counters, but it doesn't even matter with the right prediction. You have a Kyogre to wall my Chandelure? OK. Then I won't switch into it. Shadow Tag eases prediction sooo much.
  20. Kebabe

    Kebabe
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    @Theorymon
    I guess its just about personal preference, which wove you scarifies for T-Wave, personally I love having that power from Water Spout as it eases prediction a lot as it destroys even resists. The drawback is of course thats it not as reliable as Thunder. The LO set you're suggesting looks interesting though, I might try that.

    Now on to a set I lately started to use on my hyper offensive teams:

    Skill Swap Deoxys-S

    [​IMG]

    Deoxys-S @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Skill Swap
    - Spikes
    - Fire Punch
    Stealth Rock / Magic Coat / Taunt

    My goal with this set is to get up as much hazards a possible not caring about the opponent. On HO I think its more important to get up your own hazards then denying your opponents thats why Taunt is slashed as third.

    The only real annoying thing when using Deoxys is Magic Bouncers blocking you're hazards. Skill Swap absolutely destroys Magic Bounce tactics and you will always get you're hazards up.

    Fire punch is for dealing heavy damage to Foretress and to kill Genesect leads trying to U-turn on you.

    I prefer having all hazards on Deoxys but Magic Coat can be useful agains other Deoxys.
  21. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
    is a Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

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    why not just use shadow ball; it hits opposing deo-s as well.
  22. Kebabe

    Kebabe
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    It's because the opponent will often lead of with their bouncer(is there any more obvious lead then Deoxys-S), break your sash and then revenge you with priority which would lead to you dont having any hazards up at all. (you could switch but imo getting up your hazards early is all that matters).

    EDIT: Also a univested Shadow will fail to 2HKO Sdef xatu and you dont want to use HP fire beacuse of the speed drop
  23. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
    is a Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

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    who uses spdef xatu, and your oppo isn't always going to lead their bouncer.
  24. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    It is much more likely that the opponent is going to lead with their non-Magic Bouncer so that they can increase the possibility of you deciding to go for hazards, giving them a better chance at a reward for the switch-in. This is especially true if they use something like Genesect. You don't like the possibility of Shadow Balling to hit the switch only to eat a U-turn, and don't like the prospect of double-switching since U-turn also makes that risky. Jelli, a team with a Magic Bouncer is probably more comfortable leading with something that beats prospective leads other than Deoxys-S, since Xatu can generally switch into it for free anyway.

    Furthermore, unlike in OU, Xatu is really the only proven Magic Bouncer, since Espeon's viability is questionable, and Xatu is almost always physically defensive to better combat Groudon and Ferrothorn. Considering all of this, as well as the threat Deoxys-A and Giratina-O pose, Shadow Ball Dark Pulse is definitely the more practical move, by a wide margin.
  25. Kebabe

    Kebabe
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    With Skill Swap:
    1.If they lead of with their bouncer:
    Skill swaps and gets up at least one layer

    2.If they lead with something else:
    Skill swap on the switch and get up at least one layer

    With Dark Pulse:

    1.Dark pulse twice, sash broken you might not even get one layer up.

    2.Dark pulse on the switch and get up at least one layer. (if they not has Sdef Xatu lol)

    What Im saying is that if you really need to get up hazards Skill Swap guarantees that 100% (ok not against scarf Darkrai), you cant argue that.

    Im not saying people uses Sdef Xatu, but I think you at least have to consider all possibilities.

    Also, even if Dark Pulse might be more useful in general this is still a thread for unorthodox movesets right?

    Scarf Genesect max speed: 489
    Deoxys-S max speed: 504

    252 Atk Deoxys-S Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 276-328 (97.18 - 115.49%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

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