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Project Ubers 2.0

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Theorymon, May 9, 2012.

  1. sithsniper17

    sithsniper17

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    39
    Honchkrow @ Life Orb
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    - Sucker Punch
    - Heat Wave
    - Superpower
    - Roost

    This looks like standard UU Sucker Punch Krow, but it actually performs nastily well in Ubers. For starters, Sucker Punch off of 125 base Attack is no laughing matter--especially in a Dark-weak Ubers tier. Once it gets going with Moxie, it powers through teams like no tomorrow. Few Pokemon can truly take a STAB Sucker Punch or a Superpower. Superpower hits fellow Dark-types and Rock- and Steel-types, and Heat Wave OHKO's Ferrothorn and Forretress (barring Sturdy, of course). Roost helps mitigate LO recoil and the likely Stealth Rocks. Terrakion and Arceus pose problems to this set, as well as the aforementioned Rocks. But it's a set that with the right support can catch unwary players off guard and punch a hole or two in an experienced team. It also catches people who aew unaware that Honchkrow has DW Moxie really off guard, and can work very well in the right hands. I was trolololled once by this set and was powerless to stop it.
  2. polop

    polop
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
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    811
    [​IMG]
    Dialga @ Leftovers
    Trait: Presssure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Substitute
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Tail / Roar
    - Fire Blast

    This is basically a Dialga that screws over stall teams IF hazards are present. The idea is kind of simple. Get a substitute up and spam Dragon Tail or Roar, hitting foes that you feel might get OHKOed or 2HKOed by Fire Blast or Draco Meteor (you can afford to stay in for two turns thanks to Sub). With lots of hazards this Dialga can actually quite easily wear a team down. Its not like Giratina-a either that gets threatened by Forry, seeing as it can just fry the thing with Fire Blast. Not much will avoid getting 2HKOed or OHKOed by the listed moves, and the things that don't get 2HKOed (Chansey) generally fail to break the Substitute. Its possible to remove a lot of Special Attack investment and throw it into Speed to outspeed certain mons (you can actually invest to outspeed no investment Lugia and the difference won't be that large lol), since Dialga can generally afford the power loss thanks to the additional damage entry hazards can provide. Its generally not recommended though since max Special Attack investment gives you the best chance to OHKO Ho-Oh after Rocks, but what's funny is that you wall that mon if rain is up and it lacks Earthquake. You can pp stall its Sacred Fires out since it takes two of them to break a Sub, but you might get pp stalled back too if your using Dragon Tail so...

    This is pretty nice for both stall and offensive teams. On stall, its one of the best ways to point and laugh at Ferrothorn / stall breaker Heatran lacking Substitute (if using Dragon Tail) / Genesect. On offense, the shuffling and stall breaking helps other mons sweep. Against extremely offensive teams, a mon will generally be forced to go down or get weakened to break Dialga's substitute.
  3. EspeonX

    EspeonX

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    Messages:
    69
    I have tested the SubRoar Dialga set, and I can attest to it's effectiveness, though I haven't actually had enough of an opportunity to get a Sub up, though this is against offensive teams. Against stall, it works. Ferrothorn and Forretress can be removed rather easily with this set, and it supports the team by clearing the way for my own spinner (Forretress) to come in and get rid of all of the hazards that had been setup. It is quite effective.
  4. Dracoyoshi8

    Dracoyoshi8 weapon of mass seduction
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    926
    Do you have big balls?

    [​IMG]
    @ Icicle Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
    Timid Nature
    -Blizzard
    -Thunder
    -Recover
    -Calm Mind

    Some people would say that relying on a 70% accurate STAB move is foolish. Some people are PANSIES. This is Ubers, where powerful Pokemon use powerful attacks against powerful players. And what is more powerful than STAB Icicle Plated boosted Blizzard?

    NOTHING.

    In comparison, look at these calcs:
    252 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Blizzard vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 243-286 (86.17 - 101.41%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    --Judgment: 72.34 - 85.1%

    252 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Arceus-Grass: 338-398 (76.12 - 89.63%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    --Judgment: 63.51 - 74.77%

    252 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia: 288-342 (69.23 - 82.21%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    --Judgment: 57.69 - 68.26%

    +1 252 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Ho-Oh: 216-255 (52.04 - 61.44%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    Judgment: 43.37 - 51.32%

    +1 252 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 422-500 (83.89 - 99.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    --Judgment: 70.37 - 82.7%

    +1 252 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Blizzard vs. 204 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo: 364-429 (90.09 - 106.18%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    --Judgment: 75.24 - 88.61%

    +1 252 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Palkia: 285-336 (88.78 - 104.67%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    Judgment: 73.83 - 87.22%

    +1 252 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Reshiram: 285-336 (83.57 - 98.53%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    --Judgment: 69.5 - 82.11%

    +2 252 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Blizzard vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Normal: 381-448 (94.54 - 111.16%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    --Judgment: 78.41 - 92.55%

    +2 252 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 297-351 (84.37 - 99.71%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    --Judgment: 70.73 - 83.52%

    +2 252 SpA Icicle Plate Arceus-Ice Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Dialga: 366-432 (90.59 - 106.93%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    --Judgment: 75.74 - 89.1%

    Yeah, pretty sweet. I think its time to reevaluate the risk vs reward argument. Stay frosty.
  5. lousy918

    lousy918

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    325
    What's stronger than Icicle Plate Blizzard

    ? we don't rely on inaccurate moves if there are better alternatives available

    252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 144 SpD Arceus-Grass: 432-510 (97.29 - 114.86%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO

    hence idk how common is this set but

    [​IMG]
    Zekrom @ Life Orb
    Ability: Teravolt
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Hone Claws
    - Outrage
    - Bolt Strike

    As we all know, Zekrom lures in Ferrothorn all day. This set capitalizes on that fact by setting up substitutes that block Leech Seed, T-Wave, and Zekrom resists Ferrothorn's STABs. It can also set up on Forretress. Substitute prevents revenge killing as well.
    Why full speed then? Even with 252 HP, its subs are still getting broken in 2 hits from Ferrothorn anyway, while full speed allows it to outspeed Adamant Offensive SR Groudon, Lugia, and other non-fully invested base 90s. It will then proceed to 2HKO or OHKO them.
    Life Orb allows it to get several notable KOs, mainly
    +1 252 Atk Life Orb Zekrom Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 364-429 (90.09 - 106.18%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +1 252 Atk Life Orb Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Normal: 394-464 (88.73 - 104.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  6. kakuna

    kakuna

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Messages:
    70
    Rargh this is a good thread
    [​IMG]
    Dialga @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 SAtk / 200 SpD
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Toxic
    This is a take on bulky dialga that I really like. Toxic is the only unusual thing here and I admit it seems pretty counter intuitive to run toxic on a pokemon with such incredible power. As it turns out dialga can't smash everything though, and the ability to destroy all arceus forms (barring poison and steel), ho-oh, lugia, and other special tanks (tyranitar etc.) is just amazing. Toxiced Ho-oh is sort of useless, and so is lugia. Arceus water and grass are useless, ghost is stopped, ground is stopped, rock is stopped, psychic is stopped, fighting is stopped, and recover normal is stopped. I haven't bothered to tinker the EVs yet.
  7. Naby

    Naby

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Messages:
    58
    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Leftovers / Salac Berry / Life Orb
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance

    That's the solution against the defensive core Ferrothorn (with Protect) + Giratina, which can stop the Terrakion's role with a good prediction. This is a surprising set, because everyone wait for a Scarf set on Terrakion. With this set, Terrakion can easily set up a sub in Giratina's face and start his set up. Don't worry, becuase Dragon Tail won't break the sub. With the help of the Salac Berry, Terrakion can outspeed practically the full metagame, and a +2 Terrakion with a sub is unstoppable. Lefties helps to recover the HP lost in Substitute, and LO if we want extra power.
  8. dice

    dice practitioner of the city
    is a Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Arcade Star

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    Messages:
    2,163
    The thing with Substitute Terrakion is that most competent players don't run Dragon Tail + Will-o-Wisp. Rather, Roar instead of Dragon Tail on most sets for the omnipresent Ho-Oh and other extraneous Substitute attackers like the Terrakion you posted. I'm not saying that this is a bad set at all; however, you made it seem like breaking Ferrothorn + Giratina was its main draw which it does not accomplish well.
  9. puregenius

    puregenius

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    198
    [​IMG]
    Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 176 Spd
    X Nature
    - Tailwind
    - Destiny Bond
    - Filler
    - Filler

    an idea for a set i had
    usually destiny bond is too slow to take advantage of with gira o, but with tailwind he can outpace just about anything
    the evs allow him to outspeed scarf terra after a tailwind and the rest of the evs would vary depending on ur filler moves
    is also a cool check to ek arceus to bring momentum to ur side

    tailwind as he shadow claws
    destiny bond for the kill
    abuse remaining turns of tailwind with stuff like specs ogre

    atm im not really sure how to finish this set, but i feel it has potential
    obviously, this fares much better against offensive teams than defensive ones
  10. Aquasition

    Aquasition

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    243
    Holy tailwind, Batman!

    If I am correct, one of the main things holding Gira-O back is his lacklustre speed. This would allow him to patch it up. Both tailwind and Destiny bond are extremely unexpected in Gira-O. Now throw in some attacks of your choice, and you have something extremely dangerous.
  11. rileydelete

    rileydelete

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    324
    Hi there. I'm not a grandmaster when it comes to Ubers. But I've been playing it tier for a while and I've certainly found that creativity can go far. In particular, there's an underrated support set that I've come to love.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress

    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Toxic
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Pain Split


    While not really breaking the mold, it can be crazy how effective this set is in the current metagame. It can come in on so many Pokemon and either fire off a Toxic, or start laying down hazards. Giratina, Giratina-O, Chansey, Blissey, Lugia, Ferrothorn, and Ghostceus that don't pack a Fire move all become Spikes fodder to this set. This set is so effective I run it on nearly all my teams; it's a one-stop solution to entry hazard issues, while also being one heck of a team supporter :)

    The most common non-Custap Forretress set I see is as follows:

    Forretress

    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Volt Switch

    While useful for Rapid Spin support and hazard laying, this set provides almost no damage dealing methods it's own. It's a solid set for sure, but what if there was a better option? Well, I believe I've found it. Even Smogon's official dex entry mentions the merits of both Toxic and Pain Split, but the's no mention of the trouble Forretress can cause if it runs both.This set allows for soild residual damage via Toxic, as well as support and healing. If at full/very high health, a player can even be bold and tank a massive hit, use Pain Split to even out health levels, and then make it easier for a team mate to achieve a revenge-kill.

    Overall in terms of team support, the Toxic/Pain Split set works wonders, and should totally be considered if you want hazard control.
  12. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo I am hungry
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    That Forretress set is the standard non-Custap variant. The ladder is just bad and runs stupid stuff. (which I guess makes it count?)
  13. Gogeta

    Gogeta

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2013
    Messages:
    81
    Use this please. It's not the best thing on the planet, but it's fucking hilarious to use against any kind of weather team, and can end up being clutch if you pull off a Hail before <insert weather abuser here> destroys you.

    Arceus-Ice @ Icicle Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Hail
    - Blizzard
    - Thunderbolt/Thunder/Fire Blast/iterally any attack that isn't Ice type here
    - Recover/Support move of your choice/Third attack

    The idea behind this is simply to screw over players who are careless with their weather starter and not just change the weather, but punish them hard in the form of Iceceus' now 100% accurate Blizzard. This set is obviously best used on weatherless offense or balance, as a lot of players will be more inclined to sac their weather starter early thinking they've won the weather war. From then on, all you have to do is get Iceceus in safely and voila. Their weather is gone, one of their primary win conditions could be gone, and you have a win condition of your own staring them down. Blizzard is no joke, as Dracoyoshi's calcs showed a few posts back, taking down many offensive threats when weakened by hazards or chip damage. A second offensive move to deal with the stuff that can take Blizzards is preferred, I just listed some random ones that could work, seeing as it's really down to your team build (I ran Fire Blast to get through Sp.Def Forretress easier). The final slot is once again up to you, Recover giving it some sort of longevity should it ever need to come into action early. Calm Mind could be used, but this Iceceus isn't designed to set up for days, it's supposed to be a one turn set up glass cannon (or as glass as an Arceus can be). You could also run a third offensive move here, which is probably the best option.

    The biggest flaw with this set is actually getting Iceceus in safely. The rest of your team needs to be built to deal with other weathers (no Grassceus or Waterceus for you), as Iceceus can't actually switch into any of the weather setters reliably without some sort of risk. Its atrocious defensive typing and lack of bulk (mainly because of its atrocious defensive typing) leave it unable to safely switch in to many powerful attacks in the tier that you'd expect an Arceus to soak up, making it a very one time use pokemon. You'll normally find yourself bringing this in after a teammate has died, and with its blazing speed and raw power, forcing stuff out isn't too difficult. The vast majority of the tier hates ice attacks, meaning your opportunity to Hail should be the turn you send it in ideally, which of course is after the opponent's weather setter has died. From then on go mad.

    I kinda feel this is somewhere in between creative and a gimmick, but there's no thread for that, and I wanted to post this, so my bad if this isn't the place for that.

    but dude, it's arceus ice, can't hate.
    superstar, Blue Jay and Sweep like this.
  14. superstar

    superstar

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
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    Arceus-Electric @ Zap Plate
    252 SpAtk/ 252 Spd/ 4 HP
    Timid/Modest Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Tailwind
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam

    I know this sounds like the stupidest thing ever, but hear me out. Tailwind on Arceus is actually quite underrated and can be used on a few of its formes for good results (I've had success with it on support Fightceus with Stone Edge, on IceCeus using basically the same set, and on DragonCeus using Judgement and Fire Blast)

    By opting for Tailwind instead of Recover/Sub on our CM ZapCeus, we lose the ability to wall all the things (?) that he is used for defensively. Instead, we get a mon that can double as a late game sweeper and a mid game wall breaker all in one. Good luck trying to wall this combination, especially considering he has those famed Godly defenses. Basically, the strategy is simple. If something slower is coming in, set up a Calm Mind. If something faster is trying to come in to revenge you, set up a Tailwind.

    Show Hide

    252 SpA Zap Plate Arceus-Electric Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Genesect: 258-304 (91.16 - 107.42%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Zap Plate Arceus-Electric Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 332-392 (97.07 - 114.61%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Zap Plate Arceus-Electric Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 243-286 (86.17 - 101.41%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Zap Plate Arceus-Electric Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kingdra: 231-273 (79.38 - 93.81%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Arceus-Electric Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Soul Dew Latios: 122-144 (40.39 - 47.68%) -- 48.05% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Zap Plate Arceus-Electric Thunder vs. 140 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Normal: 190-225 (45.67 - 54.08%) -- 46.88% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Zap Plate Arceus-Electric Thunder vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Ho-Oh: 288-342 (69.39 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Arceus-Electric Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 214-254 (52.97 - 62.87%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO
    +1 252 SpA Arceus-Electric Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 320-378 (79.2 - 93.56%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes





    As you can see, he's no slouch when it comes to offensively pushing things around after a Tailwind boost and just slaughtering the scarfers that might be supposed to revenge kill him. The best part is that if something does manage to get off a hit and KO, there are many (relatively) slow uncounterable mons like Palkia that can finish the job with that speed boost. If you are facing defensive teams without Ferro, you can single handedly wreck them after a CM or two since there are very few things in Ubers that are both not weak to Ice and resist Thunder.

    One issue is that our ZapCeus takes hefty damage from Groudon and can't OHKO in return, although it can beat defensive variants 1v1 since Groudon fails to even have a chance to KO after SR without at least 100 EVs in attack. It is also vulnerable to phazing from Giratina-A, although it does 2HKO most Giratina-O variants most of the time. It sucks against FERROTHORN, and needs SR to get its KOs just like every other sweeper. Latias can also give it trouble, although you do outspeed so you can set up 2 CMs if you predict the switch. Chansey is also difficult to take down since you need to be at +3 to 2HKO even with SR and a layer of Spikes.
    Leafshield and Theorymon like this.
  15. Surface Pension

    Surface Pension

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
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    20
    Arceus-Fighting @ Fist Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Toxic
    - Stone Edge/Ice Beam
    - Judgment
    - Recover

    This guy toxic stalls like no other. It also beats Extremekiller 1 on 1. Timid nature is for outspeeding the common 90/95s, and Stone Edge is for beating up Ho-Oh, who would otherwise wreck this set. You can, however, run Ice Beam for Giratina-O, as if they Magic Coat your toxic, you lose the stall.
  16. Hack

    Hack I BELIEVE IN TRANSPARENCY IN DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    I hope it's okay to revive this.


    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Toxic / Toxic Spikes
    - Knock Off / Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald

    Tentacruel has fallen out of favor in the current offense meta. I would label this set a mix of creative and underrated- I am surely not the first one to use Toxic and/or Knock Off on Tentacruel, but I feel like it could get some more attention than it does. The premise it simple. With Toxic, you don't have to worry a whole lot about not getting your Toxic Spikes down to check Arceus-Ghost. Although offensive variants stand a chance of 2HKOing, Tentacruel is still a nice deterrent to it in combination with other mons like Roar Kyogre etc. Toxic a Giratina-O on the switch, and you might end up spinning later- unless said Giratina-O has Rest of course. The premise on Knock Off is to get rid of Latios and Latias Soul Dew, as many people (including myself) mindlessly switch in on Tentacruel with those two. Another threatening mon that switches into Tentacruel is Ho-oh, and without a Life Orb or Choice Band, the turkey doesn't pose as big threat to your ordinary Rain Stall team. Now, Toxic Spikes are of course still viable- and you should probably be using them if running full stall. This Tentacruel can fit pretty well on rain balance, though, as those teams are a) usually weak to Toxic Spikes, b) Weaker to Ho-oh, Latios etc (Stall uses Rockceus, Jirachi more often than balance) c) Weaker to Arceus-Ghost.
    rileydelete likes this.
  17. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
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    Sorry to break it to you, but that set is neither creative or underrated. The EVs aren't even optimal.
  18. Hack

    Hack I BELIEVE IN TRANSPARENCY IN DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    I disagree, though you are right about the evs

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