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Project "Update Overviews" (post 1 updated with reservations)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Aldaron, Oct 31, 2012.

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  1. Aldaron

    Aldaron indefatigable workhorse
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    Intro (not necessary to read (open)
    I'm gonna preface this with a FACT: The analyses are unarguably the best they have ever been.

    I've been involved with this site since 07, and presided over C&C's revival from a purely dead state (with BK / Junior / Stellar / darkie / Caelum / jrrrrrrr... good times) and I can say that with confidence. I have adamantly disagreed with the standard talking point criticisms about "red tape" or "inefficiency" and all of that, and I will continue to do so. I think that throughout the years, whoever the active leadership, we have succeeded in implementing necessary projects / protocols / systems to resolve the needs of the time.

    Our analyses are supposed to cater to the newer player, and having information that is relevant and specific is always a good thing, so I don't have a personal "length requirement."

    That said, in spite of any hostility that may have resulted from the previous iteration of this thread, I still think it's important that the section responsible for a SIGNIFICANT number of this site's hits (dp/pokemon was #1 in dpp, not sure if bw/pokemon is the same anymore) be open to constructive criticism and be open to forever improving.

    I'd like to take 2 posts from the previous thread to highlight where I feel improvements can be made to a system that is already very good and already pumping out what are bar none the best analyses Smogon has ever had.

    Honko's post was entirely constructive and well stated so I won't add anything to it; I basically agree 100%.

    I took out the first part of undisputed's post cause I didn't think it was necessary, but this last part is so necessary that I have bolded the entire part. IN BW OU...Infernape sucks lol. Ok it might not suck but whatever Infernape is, the reader, new or not, does not get that impression from the overview. I'm going to take a different route from undisputed and not pin this on the writer though, as counter-intuitive as that might seem. C&C throughout the past 5 years, ignoring who we cater to, has had significantly different needs and priorities. At one point, it was simply getting people to look at the forum (Bk will remember this). At another, it was getting people to explain how a Pokemon fit on a team. At another, it was making sure the analyses written earlier were still relevant. Different needs on an operational basis (again, independent of who we cater to) caused us to write analyses that, for whatever reason, may not correspond to our needs in the present.

    This isn't the writer's fault imo. C&C should be a fluid system anyway (and from what I can see, it is), and I take this as an opportunity to continue the fluidity and just continue improving.


    Plan (open)
    So, what do we need to do to improve? I can't agree with undisputed about length being bad, but I can agree with fluff being bad. I'd like to take a combination of both those posts and formulate the plan for a project with whoever can be bothered to help.

    1.) Recruit active players who are willing to consult. <-- LOL Sorry, had to laugh, cause like, this has been a concern / desire forever and it kinda goes somewhere and then kinda dies. But o well..this is still a desire for the optimistic -.-

    2.) Get a group together to work on the "overview" section for all analyses. First, we need to define what overview means for us at this time (and not go into hating on how it was implemented in the past, because again, different times mean different needs mean different results). Then, we go through and update (key word, update, not fix) them. Here, we channel the spirit of undisputed's post; in Infernape's BW OU overview, we say "this blows." In C&C talk of course.

    1 and 2 work side by side, because the overview is probably all an experienced battler will look at lol.

    3.) Get a group together to work on making the individual set descriptions concise. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but again, I have to reiterate that this isn't blaming the writer at all; at the time it was written, the need was different, and the writer adapted to his time's needs / expectations. We're all volunteers working on a hobby we love; none of us are to blame. That said, I think, at the present, the needs are a.) be concise b.) be informative c.) be interesting

    This means take out fluff (group might have to define fluff), add specifics, and try to keep the writer's personality evident.

    #3 is a lot of work honestly, and, since I'm such a fucking realist, I don't really expect it to pan out. That said, we can make efforts to see something move in this general direction.

    In fact, all I really want to see personally is #1 and #2 come to fruition. Since we have tabs / drop down menus for the analyses anyway, it's entirely up to the user what he chooses to read, but the overview should come straight out and smack the reader with a metaphorical cock and say "this is what the fuck this is." Since a person, whether new or experienced, bothering to read the analyses will always read the overview, I agree with undisputed in saying that at the very least, this part of the analysis should be clear, concise (yes, this might even mean emphasizing length and making explicitly short), and straight to the point.

    So, unless someone really wants to take the lead on #3, you can refer to this as the "Update Overviews" project.


    Advice (open)
    I'll even help whoever wants to volunteer to lead this in the right direction...

    yee / undisputed / lavos / myzozoa are part of one group ("team west"); iconic / eo / tfc another ("nowhere / elsewhere"); jabba / locopoke / kd24 another ("strongs"); mcmeghan / ginku / cbb another ("etc"). Go to these groups of good players, ask for a few people to help writers in getting right to the brunt of what a specific pokemon's purpose is, and work with them to getting that down on paper in the Overview section. Actually don't go to tfc. But the rest, they're all part of different groups that frequently do well in high level competition, and I know that at least some members of each group will happy to provide assistance in getting to the core of what a Pokemon's purpose in a tier is.


    Current reserved list (open)


    1. By user:

      Aldaron - writer and adviser - Sableye

      alexwolf - writer - Xatu

      Arcticblast - writer - Magneton

      ernesto - writer - Crobat / Slowbro / Tornadus

      Iconic - writer and adviser - Sharpedo

      JabbaTheGriffin - writer and adviser - Terrakion

      lord of bays - writer - Hydreigon

      myzozoa - writer and adviser - Deoxys-D

      Nachos - writer and adviser - Abomasnow / Metagross / Tyranitar

      nyttyn - writer - Blissey

      pokemon0078 - writer - Gastrodon / Lilligant / Smeargle

      undisputed - writer and adviser - Dragonite / Tornadus-T / Gengar / Heatran / Latios / Latias

      yee - writer and adviser - Infernape / Machamp / Tangrowth / Chansey / Jellicent

      By Pokemon:

      Abomasnow - Writer / Adviser: Nachos
      Accelgor
      Aerodactyl - Analysis: ballabrown24
      Alakazam
      Amoonguss
      Azelf
      Azumarill
      Bisharp
      Blissey - Writer: nyttyn
      Breloom - Analysis: Seven Deadly Sins
      Bronzong
      Carracosta
      Celebi - Analysis: alexwolf
      Chandelure
      Chansey - Writer / Adviser: yee
      Cloyster
      Cobalion
      Cofagrigus
      Conkeldurr - Analysis: ThePillsburyDoughBoy (Abandoned, needs to be taken over)
      Crawdaunt
      Cresselia
      Crobat - Writer / Adviser: ernesto
      Darmanitan
      Deoxys-D - Writer / Adviser: myzozoa, Analysis - ballabrown24
      Ditto
      Donphan - Analysis: Arcticblast
      Dragonite - Writer / Adviser: undisputed
      Dugtrio
      Durant
      Dusknoir
      Empoleon
      Espeon
      Exeggutor
      Farfetch'd
      Feraligatr
      Ferrothorn
      Forretress
      Froslass
      Gallade
      Galvantula
      Gastrodon - Writer / Adviser: pokemon0078
      Gengar - Writer / Adviser: undisputed
      Gliscor - Analysis: Electrolyte
      Golurk
      Gorebyss
      Gyarados
      Haxorus
      Heatran - Writer / Adviser: undisputed
      Heracross
      Hippowdon
      Hitmontop
      Huntail
      Hydreigon - Writer / Adviser: Lord of bays
      Infernape - Writer / Adviser: yee
      Jellicent - Writer / Adviser: yee
      Jirachi
      Jolteon
      Jynx
      Kabutops
      Kingdra
      Kyurem
      Landorus
      Latias - Writer / Adviser: undisputed, Analysis: shrang
      Latios - Writer / Adviser: undisputed, Analysis: Lavos Spawn (abandoned, needs taking over)
      Lilligant - Writer / Adviser: pokemon0078
      Lucario
      Ludicolo
      Machamp - Writer / Adviser: yee
      Magikarp
      Magneton - Writer / Adviser: Arcticblast
      Magnezone
      Mamoswine
      Mandibuzz
      Medicham
      Meloetta
      Meloetta-P
      Metagross - Writer / Adviser: Nachos, Analysis: religiousjedi
      Mew
      Mienshao
      Milotic
      Nidoking
      Nidoqueen
      Ninetales
      Ninjask
      Omastar
      Parasect
      Politoed
      Porygon2
      Quagsire
      Raikou
      Reuniclus
      Roserade - Analysis: Arcticblast
      Rotom
      Rotom-C
      Rotom-H
      Rotom-W - Analysis: alexwolf
      Sableye - Writer / Adviser: Aldaron
      Salamence - Analysis: LucaroarkZ
      Sandslash
      Sawsbuck
      Sceptile
      Scizor
      Scolipede
      Scrafty
      Sharpedo - Writer / Adviser: Iconic
      Shaymin
      Shiftry
      Sigilyph
      Skarmory
      Slowbro - Writer / Adviser: ernesto
      Slowking
      Smeargle - Writer / Adviser: pokemon0078
      Staraptor
      Starmie
      Stoutland
      Suicune
      Swampert
      Tangrowth - Writer / Adviser: yee
      Tentacruel
      Terrakion - Writer / Adviser: JabbaTheGriffin
      Throh
      Togekiss
      Tornadus - Writer / Adviser: ernesto
      Tornadus-T - Writer / Adviser: undisputed
      Toxicroak
      Tyranitar - Writer / Adviser: Nachos, Analysis: Trinitrotoluene
      Vaporeon
      Venomoth
      Venusaur
      Victini
      Victreebel
      Virizion
      Volbeat
      Volcarona
      Weavile
      Whimsicott
      Wobbuffet - Analysis: pokemon0078
      Xatu - Writer / Adviser / Analysis: alexwolf
      Yanmega
      Zapdos
      Zoroark

  2. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    For what it's worth, writing, speaking, or any other form of modern English, "like" >>>> "such as"
    (will respond seriously later; but good rebound of a discussion)
  3. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    oh man i am so ready to help out with this project like you wouldn't believe.

    not going to jump down anyone throats (like to be fair, even though Infernape is pretty mediocre nowadays, the analysis was made during the early parts of BW1) but this is something that definitely needs to happen.
  4. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
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    Let's get it.

    Ready to help out Aldy.
  5. marilli

    marilli
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    I'm assuming this is going to happen throughout all tiers?

    I'll help where I can.
  6. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    Some other people on the LC moderation team and myself actually did something similar to this a good while back, so of course I'm happy to help.
  7. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    the strongs would be glad to offer our services (both advising and writing)
  8. yee

    yee
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    Happy to be a part. Continuing improvement from this site is very important to me.
  9. kokoloko

    kokoloko from Mexico
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    Lol cbb and ginku in C&C is funny. Anyway the UU C&C team is gonna do their stuff.
  10. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    I'm a terrible writer, but I'm willing to offer my assistance wherever it need be.

    Edit: would like to be part of the advisory team:

    Done pretty well in tournaments and just qualified for the recent Suspect test.
  11. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    For OU C&C, should we make an Overview revamp thread similar to the Checks & Counter revamp thread that was posted half a year ago? Of course it'll be open to anyone willing to provide their assistance, unlike the previous revamp attempt.
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Great idea Aldaron! Making overviews more realistic and to the point is certainly something that needs to be done. I have caught myself sometimes, adding some unecessary fluff, and unconciously trying to make a poke seem better than it is. And this happens beause anyone that does a job voluntarily, likes what he does, and sometimes this gets to him unconciously (i don't know if this is true in general, but i always write analyses of pokes that i at least like a bit using).

    I agree with Pocket that the way to go with this project should be something like the c&c project. Also i believe that the c&c project should get going again, as it was a very helpful project, that unfortunately has died out. Finally i also agree that anyone should be able to contribute to this project, regardless of badges or fame. If the text that he writes is good enough, then it will pass through GP, or else it will be simply disregarded.

    EDIT: Oh and i will help too yeah :D
  13. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
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    it would be a positive step so i will help out
  14. LizardMan

    LizardMan A mo so true.
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    I suppose I will help too. I don't think I have a group/specific idea where to start.
  15. Aldaron

    Aldaron indefatigable workhorse
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    Just moved this over here to get any people who can't see Inside Scoop in the loop.

    I guess I'll take the lead for the OU part of this project.

    Post if you want to help, and specify if it will be advisory (you are a good player, as evidenced by qualifying on Suspect the past two times or doing well in tournaments recently) or actually writing.

    I'll be asking the writers to take what the advisers say very seriously, as I expect the OU Overviews to represent, concisely, exactly what a Pokemon is in OU.

    Cheers.
  16. Nachos

    Nachos Smooth; slick; succinct.
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    I'll give writing and advising a go.
  17. undisputed

    undisputed
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    I'd be down to help with both. I'm not the most talented writer, but I'd be happy to put in some work.
  18. Steven Snype

    Steven Snype
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    Heyo. I'm willing to help if you want some help w/how to word your analyses to fit these quality players' advice from a GP perspective, and also have experience w/OU as well.
  19. yee

    yee
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    I'll have both.
  20. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    I can do the writing part!
  21. Huntofthelion

    Huntofthelion Live for the nights you can't remember
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    I'd be up for helping with advising, sounds like a great project.
  22. ala

    ala
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    I'm up for advising and while I'm not the strongest writer I could give it a shot.
  23. gookie

    gookie Administrator
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    good writer / player for ubers (if that is relevant)
    regardless, i'm still happy to write for ou if needed
  24. NixHex

    NixHex what is béisbol
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    I am a good writer and a competent OU player. I need more excuses to procrastinate so count me in!
  25. PDC

    PDC i zimbra
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    I may not be a good writer, but I am perfectly good enough to give advice on overviews and stuff. I would love to help out!
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