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Proposed Ubers Revamp List (and discussion)

Discussion in 'BW Analyses' started by shrang, May 15, 2013.

  1. shrang

    shrang You want dabs?
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    So there are lots of Ubers analyses that need revamping or just updating because some of them are retardedly old. I've skimmed through every analysis we have in Ubers and wrote down what I think should be the changes (or no changes). I'd like everyone to discuss them, but if you want to take one and do the revamp/update (if the Pokemon needs one), go right ahead! If you want to reserve a Pokemon, I'd suggest you do it in the proper stickied reservation thread.

    Top priority:
    - Arceus-Ghost - Sweep has this
    - Deoxys-S
    - Kyogre
    - Palkia
    - Terrakion

    High priority:
    - Jirachi
    - Scizor


    Abomasnow:
    - Fine

    Arceus-Bug:
    - More content required

    Arceus-Dark:
    - CM set may need more content

    Arceus-Dragon:
    - CM set needs more content
    - I might put in a SubSD set

    Arceus-Electric:
    - Fine

    Arceus-Fighting:
    - Fine

    Arceus-Fire:
    - Good
    - FUCK YEAH SD FIRECEUS

    Arceus-Flying:
    - Sub > Refresh on CM, IMO, which means the EVs will have to be changed accordingly (for 101 HP Subs)
    - Revamp needed due to this


    Arceus-Ghost:
    - CM needs a lot more content, including a heavy AC mention (probably a whole paragraph) about an offensive spread
    - Put Magic Coat in AC of support for lead set
    - Test SD with Shadow Force + Shadow Claw, or just remove it entirely


    Arceus-Grass:
    - Support > CM - CM is kind of meh (Change set order)
    - Needs more content

    Arceus-Ground:
    - Fine

    Arceus-Ice:
    - Fine

    Arceus-Normal:
    - Superimp has this

    Arceus-Poison:
    - Fine

    Arceus-Psychic:
    - lol

    Arceus-Rock:
    - Fine

    Arceus-Steel:
    - Tweak SD set
    - Support set?

    Arceus-Water:
    - Have a look into the specially defensive CM sets (with a Fire attack) that some people have been using on their sun teams, but otherwise fine

    Beartic:
    - Fine

    Bisharp:
    - SCMS Low Kick > Brick Break, maybe have Blackglasses > Life Orb

    Blaziken:
    - Roar Blaziken? Otherwise fine

    Blissey:
    - Fine

    Bronzong:
    - Fine

    Chansey:
    - Fine

    Cloyster:
    - Test a Focus Sash offensive lead (I think it's pretty good), otherwise fine

    Cresselia:
    - Concision?

    Darkrai:
    - Fine

    Deoxys-N:
    - lol

    Deoxys-A:
    - Fine

    Deoxys-D:
    - Fine, test a fast Spiker

    Deoxys-S:
    - Revamp
    - Furai has this
    - Done

    Dialga:
    - Have a look at splitting Bulk Up mixed from Mixed Attacker, but otherwise fine

    Ditto:
    - lol

    Dugtrio:
    - Retest viability

    Excadrill:
    - Either add a support set or merge Stealth Rock into the bulky set somehow

    Ferrothorn:
    - Test viability of CB set

    Forretress:
    - Toxic > Toxic Spikes
    - Add Custap set - Furai's doing this

    Froslass:
    - Fine

    Garchomp:
    - Look into merging SD into SubSD
    - SubSD into first slot
    - Test an offensive lead set with SR


    Gastrodon:
    - Update needed

    Genesect:
    - Test Rock Polish, otherwise fine

    Giratina:
    - Revamp needed- Mr.lol has this


    Giratina-O:
    - Update needed - Done


    Gliscor:
    - Fine - mention its difference from Lando-T

    Gorebyss:
    - Fine

    Groudon:
    - Update needed

    Heatran:
    - Small Update needed

    Heracross:
    - Test viability of CB
    - Update needed


    Hippowdon:
    - Fine

    Ho-oh:
    - Fine

    Hydreigon:
    - Retest viability

    Jirachi:
    - Revamp needed - Melee Mewtwo has this

    Jumpluff:
    - Test SubSeed viability

    Jynx:
    - Fine

    Kabutops:
    - Fine

    Kingdra:
    - Fine

    Kyogre:
    - Revamp needed


    Kyurem-B:
    - Fine

    Kyurem-W:
    - Fine

    Landorus:
    - Fine

    Landorus-T:
    - Fine

    Latias:
    - Concision
    - A mention of "Kyogre is an excellent Latias counter because Ice Beam will freeze or crit 100% of the time" would be nice

    Latios:
    - Fine

    Lucario:
    - Remove

    Ludicolo:
    - Fine

    Lugia:
    - Fine

    Magnezone:
    - Fine

    Mamoswine:
    - Fine

    Manaphy:
    - Fine

    Metagross:
    - Fine

    Mew:
    - Retest viability (at least test the lead set)

    Mewtwo:
    - I'm on this


    Omastar:
    - Fine

    Palkia:
    - Major revamp needed


    Qwilfish:
    - Revamp needed

    Rayquaza:
    - Fine

    Reshiram:
    - Fine

    Sableye:
    - Fine

    Salamence:
    - Fine

    Scizor:
    - Revamp needed


    Shaymin-S:
    - Update needed

    Shedinja:
    - Discuss viability

    Shiftry:
    - Update needed

    Skarmory:
    - Update needed

    Smeargle:
    - Fine

    Tentacruel:
    - Update needed

    Terrakion:
    - Revamp needed

    Thundurus:
    - Test a Swagger set
    - Update needed

    Thundurus-T:
    - Fine

    Tornadus:
    - Test a Specs set with Sleep Talk (+1 attacks with priority when asleep is awesome)

    Tornadus-T:
    - Fine

    Tyranitar:
    - Needs a Sash set
    - Update needed


    Venusaur:
    - Retest viability of SD
    - Revamp needed

    Victini:
    - Fine

    Whimsicott:
    - Fine

    Wobbuffet:
    - Mention Custap or slash it

    Xatu:
    - Fine

    Zekrom:
    - Update needed
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
  2. Bossness

    Bossness

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    ???
    You said you would approve a Focus Sash Attacker set.
    Most spinners are slow. So, for example, even if Forretress beats Giratina-O, I can just send out my Ho-Oh and force it out and prevent it from spinning.

    Cloyster beats Deoxys-S leads, Deoxys-A leads, non-Thunderwave Support Dialga and Groudon. After a Shell Smash, it is faster than even Choice Scarf Terrakion. So nothing will prevent it from spinning (it beats every Spinblocker at +2). Against something like Kyogre or Chansey, Cloyster gets to lay down some Spikes.
  3. MatchMaster

    MatchMaster

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    If I may, I would like to reserve Palkia. I was just looking at it yesterday and thinking it needed a bit of updating. For example, the SubPunch set I never see anymore.
  4. Hack

    Hack
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    Nice, looking forward to Palkia revamp #Removescarfkia2013.

    Also, a Cloyster set consisting of Icicle Spear, Spikes, Rapid Spin and Shell Smash (jolly max offensive EVs and focus sash) has served me well recently. It would be cool having that set in the analysis.
  5. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Scarf Palkia will stay in the analysis but the order will change.

    I agree with this:
    <@shrang> lustrous special > scarf > specs > specially based mixed > bulk up

    Sash Shell Smash Cloyster deserves testing.
  6. Hack

    Hack
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    I can provide some replays for Sash Cloyster if anyone would like.
  7. Furai

    Furai we will become who we are meant to be
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    please do
  8. Hack

    Hack
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    K then here are some:


    Some replays might be bad, I don't know, I assembled them some time ago. I beat a couple of notable players with it, such as Yehom (winner of the Uber minitournament, using that very team he won with against me), Sweep (UPL player, best ladderer atm), Aless123 (another great player, although I might have haxed a bit- I think that very match was fair), Shrang and Melee Mewtwo.

    Edit: Some replays show nice versatility from Cloysters side, generally getting up spikes against teams without a spinner, beating Deoxys-S leads and so forth. It even saves you sometimes with an emergency sweep against team that lacks priority.
  9. Namikaze

    Namikaze

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    I was wondering if Smeargle should get an update of sorts. What with evasion now unbanned in ubers it should be worth noting that it can pass minimizes to team mates. I have been using one to some success and got up to 1950+ on the current ladder with it. Though its shaky as thunder in rain and aura sphere make you obsolete for the match.
  10. shrang

    shrang You want dabs?
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    I personally like this set, but it really doesn't mean much unless you get a skeleton up so we can QC it and then write the set so it can go on-site, no?
  11. Psylink

    Psylink

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    I would like to reserve Arceus-Steel, if someone hasn't done so. I can add the support set as well. It's good for walling and neutering Extreme Killer.
  12. Focus

    Focus Ubers Tester Extraordinaire

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    lol

    This analysis really needs to be updated or deleted. It just seems too niche to ever deserve a teamslot (except on a gimmick team?), and any decently-built team should be able to handle it without much difficulty. If someone new to Pokémon doesn't know what it's all about, the NU analysis for it should be enough to get the point across.

    Some minor corrections: Future Sight and Doom Desire don't harm Shedinja as of gen 5, and Nightmare damage can also be added to the everything-that-kills-Shedinja list.
  13. shrang

    shrang You want dabs?
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    I've talked to Theorymon as well about Shedinja, and we both agreed while Shedinja sucks balls, the sad fact for that thing is that Ubers is probably the tier that it does the best in. It has the most of a niche in Ubers where it has things that it can actually wall. That's kind of why I'm reluctant to remove it.

    Implemented the minor corrections.
  14. Psylink

    Psylink

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    Sorry, wrong place, could a moderator delete this post?
  15. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa

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    You could always do Double Team + Baton Pass Shedinja. It seems gimmicky at first, but it can pull in results on rain and sun-based teams, and Shedinja is a gimmick to begin with
  16. Subject 18

    Subject 18 Now it ends.
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    I'll be doing Scizor as I agreed to do so on IRC.
  17. Sweep

    Sweep
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    Hi! It has come to my attention that Thundurus-T has a BW2 Ubers analysis. I would like to make it go away.

    tagging Hack

    ok hack and kebabe agree that it is AIDS, goodbye dearest Thundurus-T
    Fireburn, shrang and Aurora like this.
  18. Aurora

    Aurora darling
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    I agree. I built a team using it following the suggestions of the analysis to the letter and it managed to do absolutely nothing in multiple battles. Opportunities for it to set up are scant thanks to how frail it is (especially if you are using Nasty Plot Thundurus-T). There is also barely any reason to use it in Ubers over Electric Arceus, Thundurus-I, and Zekrom besides 'lol choice-locked thunder kyogre' which Ice Beams it to oblivion anyway if the individual using it possesses the sense of vision and 'lol volt switch zekrom' in which case I suggest you read the Groudon analysis.
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  19. Aurora

    Aurora darling
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    Hi! It's me again.

    Dugtrio should probably not have an analysis at all. Substitute + Hone Claws + EQ + SE loses to anything that floats, such as Giratina-O, which is a very common and good Pokemon in the Ubers metagame. In addition, Scarf Zekrom is somewhat uncommon thanks to Genesect and a lot of the things that the analysis mentions Dugtrio can trap, like Specs Kyogre, Scarf Dialga, Scarf Palkia etc., are either garbage or rarely carry Thunder. Dugtrio is also extremely easy to play around by either double switching or noticing that the opponent has it and not clicking Thunder until it is gone.

    Also the analysis looks like it was written back in BW1, which is (lol)worthy:

    "However, with the advent of Black and White, Dugtrio was sent a gift from heaven in the form of Hone Claws."

    Furthermore, I struggle to see why Kyurem-B has any sets besides Scarf listed. Band gets revenge killed too easily, Mixed is outclassed by Palkia and the main draw of Hone Claws is running a move that comes off an underwhelming 120 Special Attack with 4 Special Attack EVs. At least Scarf can act as a threatening revenge killer with manly Outrages.
    Blitzamirin and Sweep like this.
  20. Sweep

    Sweep
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    Deleting Dugtrio right now. Let's pretend that never had an analysis on site.

    252 Atk Earth Plate Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 242-288 (60 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    yea gtfo

    I'll post about Kyurem-B tomorrow, Band might be just good enough to keep a set but it absolutely needs dual STAB, and it seems pretty meh. No Kyurem-B set is particularly good but Scarf + hazards on Sun offense is probably its best bet.
  21. Manaphy

    Manaphy

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    Manaphy needs a revamp. Nobody probably cares about this besides me but I'm tired of looking at the old analysis and seeing some blatantly outdated things.
    Changes that should be made IMO:
    -Tail Glow should be the main set
    -Wacan Berry should be the standard item on Tail Glow sets. Wacan just has immense utility because with it, no Scarfed Thunders/Bolt Strikes in the tier can OHKO Manaphy; it actually makes Manaphy an extremely good lure for these Pokemon. Leftovers is only marginally helpful when you can Rest at any time anyway, and Life Orb's power is nice but you don't really need it against stall and balanced teams anyway (which is what you use manaphy to destroy)
    -Grass Knot seems a bit more useful than Ice Beam IMO (You can OHKO Scarf Kyogre and do a lot more damage to Palkia; against Zekrom you still do a ton of damage with Surf and OHKO with only a little bit of prior damage)
    -80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe Timid should be the standard for Grass Knot sets, which is just enough to outspeed max Speed based 90's. You're not killing Rayquaza anyway so the rest might as well be dumped into bulk. 252 SpA / 252 Spe is fine for Ice Beam sets for outspeeding Rayquaza.
    -Calm Mind set is totally fine.

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