ORAS NU ProteaM Wallbreak

[Savior37]

Hi all guys :D

Maybe, from the title of the thread, u already understand the star of this team... Yes, it's Frogadier, with his fantastic ability Protean.
Let's explain how this team took shape:

Building Phase:

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As I said before, this team starts from Frogadier, a powerful wallbreaker thanks to his ability, which gives always the STAB.

Frogadier likes the support of a VolTurn comp, this is why I thought to Mesprit, seeing his ability to use u-turn, but also his capacity to paralyze hopponents with twave, his great defensive set and, finally, his ability to healing wish, which can also give a great support to other members, expecially to Frogadier, which his always hit by the LO recoil. Mesprit could give also the stealth rock support, but giving him healing wish I had no more free slots for this move, that's why, and for other reasons too, I decided to put Steelix in this team. He is a powerful phisical wall which can set rocks but also check pokemon like Electivire, Pinsir and Haunter. Frogadier also needs a rapid spin/defog support because of his frailty. seeing that he also likes the support of a powerful physical attacker, I decided to insert Hitmonchan as fourth member. He has a good synergy with Steelix, because the latter can check pokemon like Audino-Mega and other psychic types.

Pairing Steelix and Hitmonchan together, as Smogon suggests, I can be vulnerable to Rotom. This is why I choosed my last two members, Lanturn and Magmortar. Lanturn is a good support pivot, ha gives the Heal Bell support, he has volt switch to form a core with Mesprit and finally he has a great ability in Volt/Water Absorb. Magmortar, instead, with his Assault Vest Tank set his a huge pokemon imo (in fact he is almost always present in my teams D:)

Movesets:

Frogadier (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Gunk Shot
- Grass Knot

The star of the team. All the moves take always the STAB, his ability his fantastic (Even if I don't understand why his evolution Greninja has to be in Uber). I tried to give him the largest coverage. If the first three moves are obvious, for the last I decided to Grass Knot, just because in his role he can't lose time setting TSpikes, he has to break walls asap D:

Hitmonchan @ Fist Plate
Ability: Iron Fist
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch
- Rapid Spin

The rapid spinner of this team. The moves are pretty standard, with Drain Puch > Close Combat to give him more sustain. The only doubt is for Ice Punch or Ston Edge. I prefer the first just because the accuracy, but I'm not sure about this... Fist Plate > Life Orb to avoid the recoil, I know that I have Drain Puch, but imo with LO is too much frail.

Steelix (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 244 HP / 136 Atk / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Also here a pretty standard set. Set stealths, Heavy Slam is a grat STAB move (to hit fking Haunters), Earthquake is always a great move and toxic to the odious walls.

Mesprit @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Healing Wish
- Psyshock
- U-turn
- Thunder Wave

A more defensive set as I said. Psyshock as STAB preferred to Psychic. U-turn to creat a volturn combo with Lanturn, TWave to paralyze expecially the fucking scarf users that always create me a lot of problems, and the fantastic Healing Wish to give a second life to a member (in most of cases to Frogadier).

Lanturn (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 40 HP / 152 Def / 208 SpD / 108 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Volt Switch
- Heal Bell
- Toxic

Heal Bell supporter. Volt Switch to create the core with Mesprit, Scald as STAB and Heal Bell to heal pokemon without using Healing Wish from Mesprit, for example a burn on Steelix or Frogadier, a Toxic on Mesprit, Magmortar or Lanturn itself. Just I'm not sure about Toxic, just because with Scald I can burn, and then Steelix has Toxic too, so I was thinking to an HP or maybe Ice Beam (choosing Ice Beam I chould give Stone Edge to Hitmonchan)

Magmortar (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Vital Spirit
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Focus Blast

Finally Magmortar. A pretty standard set with STAB FBlast and then a huge coverage. Thunderbolt and HP Grass are standard, while Focus Blast > Flame Charge because I usually paralyze most of enemies, so the boost in speed is not requested.
​

This is the team guys, hope u can help me to improve it. Trying it I found that pokemon that give me troubles are Tauros, the fking Zangoose and the more fking Kadabra, I should need help to counter them.

Thanks in advance for the replies.​

​

 

[PrinceLucian]

Hi Savior37, this is already a solid looking balanced team so there isnt much to change,but few things i wanna point out is your team not having a win condition which can be really problematic on a builds like this,frogadier is also a pretty frail wallbreaker and it can die early game which leaves your team vulnerable vs defensive teams, it can act as late game cleaner but its speed isnt the best to utilize it which is why ill leave option over frogadier as last suggestion since its your decision.

Life Orb > Fist Plate , Fist plate is a decent option to run on hitmonchan but i find Life Orb to always be more useful as it still hits harder, gives you stronger priority which your team lacks and it boosts Ice punch which guarantees you 2Ko on vileplumes and hits things like gourgeist/xatu harder.

Whirlpool > Toxic i find opposing lanturns to be very problematic vs your team as only things you can hit it with is hitmonchan which risks a scald burn if you try to switch it in, psyshosk from mesprit which is also risking a burn and Lanturn vs lanturn scenario is in general very annoying, whirlpool lets you beat and lure it and Also frees space for your frogadier to clean easier. Another option is running thunder wave over toxic But i dont find it as neccessary because Hitmonchan is pretty good revenge killer vs setup sweepers like barbaracle/omastar if they manage to setup vs you.

>

Your team is very annoyed by ground types, physical grass types and you dont have good answer to Malamar, and whats one of the best answer to all of them than weezing? its a good option on a lot of balanced teams and fits good here, im choosing for pain split over Fthrower/Tspikes because it likes longevity.
Set:

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Weezing @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 108 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sludge Bomb
- Taunt
- Pain Split

Life Orb > assault vest, if you decide to run weezing over mesprit , you can afford to run life orb magmortar as your wallbreaker since you check gras types by weezing and your lanturn is your special wall anyway, so set of 252 sp.atk/252 speed with mild nature and fire blast/thunderbolt/earthquake and option of hidden power grass/focus blast hits like a truck and gives you another lanturn lure ,and with mild nature it easily 2 koes lanturn.

Thats mostly it, one last suggestion from me would would be

over Frogadier as late game sweeper/wincond and speed control with hydro pump/ice beam/focus blast/baton pass as your momentum user that brings your other pokemon safely in would be pretty useful for this team , but thats up to you since this team is built around frogadier.

-I hope you like my suggestions,and good luck in future ^^

 

[Rapture]

Seconding what Vega said on running Life Orb hitmonchan, you definitely want the extra power with mach punch to muscle through faster threats that Frogadier and non flame charge Magmortar fail to outpace. Aside from that, here are some ideas for the rest of your team that would be worth trying out

• 
  - With Frogadier I would reconsider running Toxic Spikes over Grass Knot. While it is true that Frogadier is better spent hurling attacks at an enemy, it's one of few niches that it has over other offensive water types in the tier like Samurott and Floatzel. Getting T-spikes down on a predicted switchout can also make Frogadier and Magmortar much more threatening to switch into as poison damage racks up. The last point to consider on Toxic Spikes > Grass Knot is that grass knot is just incredibly redundant with Water - Ice - Poison type coverage as those three types hit everything relevant that grass knot would hit, making it a waste of a moveslot in most situations.
  
• 
  - On Mesprit I suggest running Colbur Berry over Leftovers as that gives you a more reliable switchin to fighting types like Hariyama that tend to carry dark type coverage.
  
• 
  - Assuming you decide to run T-spikes on Frogadier, Lanturn can afford to drop Toxic for Protect. Protect is a pretty nifty move that I like a lot on Lanturn as it allows you gain more recovery from leftovers and scout out what move choice users will lock themselves into. Getting more damage from poison or burns is pretty good as well.

Some smaller changes possibly include Psychic > Focus blast on Magmortar and T-wave > heal bell on Lanturn. They're pretty superfluous for the most part but might be worth using in addition to everything else I mentioned above. Good luck with the team, hope that my suggestions help.

 

[Savior37]

Life Orb > Fist Plate , Fist plate is a decent option to run on hitmonchan but i find Life Orb to always be more useful as it still hits harder, gives you stronger priority which your team lacks and it boosts Ice punch which guarantees you 2Ko on vileplumes and hits things like gourgeist/xatu harder.

Whirlpool > Toxic i find opposing lanturns to be very problematic vs your team as only things you can hit it with is hitmonchan which risks a scald burn if you try to switch it in, psyshosk from mesprit which is also risking a burn and Lanturn vs lanturn scenario is in general very annoying, whirlpool lets you beat and lure it and Also frees space for your frogadier to clean easier. Another option is running thunder wave over toxic But i dont find it as neccessary because Hitmonchan is pretty good revenge killer vs setup sweepers like barbaracle/omastar if they manage to setup vs you.

>

Your team is very annoyed by ground types, physical grass types and you dont have good answer to Malamar, and whats one of the best answer to all of them than weezing? its a good option on a lot of balanced teams and fits good here, im choosing for pain split over Fthrower/Tspikes because it likes longevity.

Life Orb > assault vest, if you decide to run weezing over mesprit , you can afford to run life orb magmortar as your wallbreaker since you check gras types by weezing and your lanturn is your special wall anyway, so set of 252 sp.atk/252 speed with mild nature and fire blast/thunderbolt/earthquake and option of hidden power grass/focus blast hits like a truck and gives you another lanturn lure ,and with mild nature it easily 2 koes lanturn.

Thats mostly it, one last suggestion from me would would be

over Frogadier as late game sweeper/wincond and speed control with hydro pump/ice beam/focus blast/baton pass as your momentum user that brings your other pokemon safely in would be pretty useful for this team , but thats up to you since this team is built around frogadier.

Hi man, firs tof all thank u for the rate.
Then, I understood pretty good ur changes in my team, also the Floatzel>Frogadier, but on this point, even if I know that the frog is outclassed by other water pokemon like Floatzel and Samurott, I'd like to keep it, just because I am really enjoying this pokemon.
For the other points, undestood that Hitmonchan needs more power from the Life Orb, a 2HKO on Vileplume is a good thing.

Honestly I really didn't think to Whirlpool and, even if it may seems strange, it could work. Just because if I toxic opponent Lanturn, they could carry Heal Bell and heal themselves, but with this move not. I have just one doubt, if I hit the opponent with Whirlpool he can be switched or he has to wait the end of the move? (Sorry for the bold type, but I'd really like to know the answer so I highlighted the question D:)

Weezing>Mesprit, this is the point that I undestrand less... Because he also has Levitate like Mesprit, so he would still be the only that can take ground moves, then phisical grass types are checkd by Magmortar and Steelix (at least I think, maybe the only problem could be Torterra, but I could run Ice Beam on predict from Frogadier or Ice punch with Hitmonchan), finally until now I never had problems against Malamar, he is quite halved from U-Turn from Mesprit and then he is easily knocked off. But I always remember that I am not a pro, so I'm maybe saying stupid things and I always had good luck against this pokemon.

For Magmortar, instead of the AV set, I thought to the Expert Belt set too, with the same moves that u adviced me, but with EB just to avoid the recoil, considering also the huge coverage that this pokemon has, but finally I decided to AV version, but I will try. U advices me to run this offensive set just if I choose Weezing or even if I keep Mesprit?

Seconding what Vega said on running Life Orb hitmonchan, you definitely want the extra power with mach punch to muscle through faster threats that Frogadier and non flame charge Magmortar fail to outpace. Aside from that, here are some ideas for the rest of your team that would be worth trying out

• 
  - With Frogadier I would reconsider running Toxic Spikes over Grass Knot. While it is true that Frogadier is better spent hurling attacks at an enemy, it's one of few niches that it has over other offensive water types in the tier like Samurott and Floatzel. Getting T-spikes down on a predicted switchout can also make Frogadier and Magmortar much more threatening to switch into as poison damage racks up. The last point to consider on Toxic Spikes > Grass Knot is that grass knot is just incredibly redundant with Water - Ice - Poison type coverage as those three types hit everything relevant that grass knot would hit, making it a waste of a moveslot in most situations.
  
• 
  - On Mesprit I suggest running Colbur Berry over Leftovers as that gives you a more reliable switchin to fighting types like Hariyama that tend to carry dark type coverage.
  
• 
  - Assuming you decide to run T-spikes on Frogadier, Lanturn can afford to drop Toxic for Protect. Protect is a pretty nifty move that I like a lot on Lanturn as it allows you gain more recovery from leftovers and scout out what move choice users will lock themselves into. Getting more damage from poison or burns is pretty good as well.

Some smaller changes possibly include Psychic > Focus blast on Magmortar and T-wave > heal bell on Lanturn. They're pretty superfluous for the most part but might be worth using in addition to everything else I mentioned above. Good luck with the team, hope that my suggestions help.

Hi u too and thank u too for the rate man.

As I said before, I understood that Hitmonchan need more power so I'll replace the item with the Life Orb.

For Frogadier now I understand the utility in setting the TSpikes, but if I choose to run another move like Drak Pulse, an HP or U-Turn maybe (to have another mamber to combo in VolTurn), what do u think about it?

On Mesprit I see the utility of this item, but I think that is quite situational, just because in case of the AV Hariyama set, Knock Off would make the 50% max of damage, while my Psychock would make 74%, so I can kill him at second turn. More dangerous is the Choice Band set (even if until now I saw only AV sets), but also in this case Knock Off would not OHKO Mesprit, so I could kill him with Psychock at second turn.

For Lanturn I considered it too in building phase, but honestly now I'd like to try Whirlpool in this set, but if it doesn't convince me, I'll surely take Protect as last move. Heal Bell is really useful and I have Mesprit that can spam TWave (even if I don't decide to take Weezing), while Psychic is also a good idea on Magmortar, I have to decide because a special fighing move is always useful, but Psychic too, seeing that Mesprit carries Psyshock...

EDIT: I forgot one thing, Lanturn is good with Volt Absorb, or for this team is better Water Absorb? Maybe is better because I can take water attacks for Magmortar and also opponents Scald...

 

[PrinceLucian]

Hi again,glad to answer your questions :)

frogadier is outlassed as late game cleaner by floatzel,but i left floatzel as last option there because its your decision since you made team around frogadier.

-Whirlpool is a move that traps your opponents lanturn for 4-5 turns while opponent is taking damage each turn and cannot switch out,which is a great lure for other lanturns.

-Weezing is here over mesprit because it gives your team fighting check with recovery, a check to physical grass pokemon like (example shiftry,leafeon), it beats malamar 1v1 in case your mesprit gets weakened or pursuit trapped and mesprit cant beat it with u-turn, while weezings Taunts+wisp reliably beats it 1v1, it checks ground types like DD rhydon, piloswine better than mesprit, and its a great stallbreaker(which you lack here) with taunt and recovery in pain split, in general just a great and splashable pokemon. Also,this isnt offensive weezing set, EV spread is made to beat malamar 1v1 while still maintaining bulk and its pretty standard.

-expert belt is an item that i dont consider that good on magmortar as fire blast nukes everything on neutral hit , it doesnt really need longevity as youre gonna mostly use it earlier in game.

-Hope i helped you :)

 

[Savior37]

Hi again,glad to answer your questions :)

frogadier is outlassed as late game cleaner by floatzel,but i left floatzel as last option there because its your decision since you made team around frogadier.

-Whirlpool is a move that traps your opponents lanturn for 4-5 turns while opponent is taking damage each turn and cannot switch out,which is a great lure for other lanturns.

-Weezing is here over mesprit because it gives your team fighting check with recovery, a check to physical grass pokemon like (example shiftry,leafeon), it beats malamar 1v1 in case your mesprit gets weakened or pursuit trapped and mesprit cant beat it with u-turn, while weezings Taunts+wisp reliably beats it 1v1, it checks ground types like DD rhydon, piloswine better than mesprit, and its a great stallbreaker(which you lack here) with taunt and recovery in pain split, in general just a great and splashable pokemon. Also,this isnt offensive weezing set, EV spread is made to beat malamar 1v1 while still maintaining bulk and its pretty standard.

-expert belt is an item that i dont consider that good on magmortar as fire blast nukes everything on neutral hit , it doesnt really need longevity as youre gonna mostly use it earlier in game.

-Hope i helped you :)

Ye I'm glad that u are so kind and answer all my questions, thank you:D

Ok, but if he uses Volt Switch while he is trapped, he will switch out or not? That's why I need to choose the ability for Lanturn, if he can't switch with Volt Switch while he is trapped I'll choose Water Absorb as ability, if he can switch even if he is trapped I'll choose Volt Absorb to prevent him to use this move.

Honestly I didn't think that Malamar could be a serious problem, I'm going to try this Weezing set btw, but choosing him over Mesprit I'll lose my U-Turn and I'll have only Lanturn for the VolTurn combo, it's ok or I should find another U-Turn user?

Ok for Magmortar, all clear.

 

[Savior37]

PrinceLucian excuse me bro,

I noticed that when I use Whirpool with Lanturn, the moves hits only one time at the end of just one turn, it seems not continue for 4-5 turns...
Maybe is because I switch my Lanturn with another pokemon?

 

[ProfessorMasterChief]

PrinceLucian excuse me bro,

I noticed that when I use Whirpool with Lanturn, the moves hits only one time at the end of just one turn, it seems not continue for 4-5 turns...
Maybe is because I switch my Lanturn with another pokemon?

Trapping moves like Whirlpool and Magma Storm only work when the Pokemon that used it stays in. So it is because you switch out Lanturn

 

[Savior37]

Trapping moves like Whirlpool and Magma Storm only work when the Pokemon that used it stays in. So it is because you switch out Lanturn

Oh ty for the explanation ^^'