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Proxima Centauri {Ending Generation 5 With a Bang}

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Steeljackal<3, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. Steeljackal<3

    Steeljackal<3

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    538
    PROXIMA CENTAURI
    [​IMG]
    Hello all, Steelskitty here with my last Fifth-Generation RMT. Though X and Y have been out for almost a month already and the 6th-Generation Pokémon are almost fully implemented, people are still playing Fifth-Generation Ubers and it seems they will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. In other words, I think I can get away with publishing another team before I’m officially done with Gen 5. I didn't originally plan on posting this, but I think that Proxima Centauri is simply too good to fade into obscurity and be lost forever in the depths of my teambuilder. It is, in my (and other’s) opinions, the best team I have ever built. While October is fun, and The Trappings of Darkness is a cute gimmick, this is a team that really works. Though the ladder is a poor way to determine a team’s strength, various iterations of this team have peaked in the range of 2100-2200 on the ladder many times (this was before the ladder reset, sadly). Ironically, I almost retired it completely, due to a nagging issue that I couldn’t manage to fix, until now at least. But the team is finally finished, and it works quite nicely.

    TEAMBUILDING PROCESS:
    Proxima Centauri was inspired primarily by two things: an old sand team that I wanted to fix, and a new Terrakion set that a friend of mine wanted me to test out.

    The set was:

    Terrakion @ Fist Plate
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Sleep Talk

    The purpose of the set was to choke slower leads while also getting Rocks of its own up and OHKOing Dialga. It sounded like a good idea, so I hastily built a team around it. It was:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]
    To make a long story short, the set failed miserably. Not only was it forced out by four common leads in Kyogre, Groudon, and Deoxys-S/-A, but it even lost to things it was intended to originally beat (such as Custap Forretress, which could Gyro Ball it into oblivion). It occurred to me that choice-less Terrakion had very little over Stone Edge Arceus-Fighting in terms of coverage and utility, so I quickly dropped Terrakion and ran Fightceus, transferring Stealth Rock over to Groudon. At this point, I hated the similarity between my team and Donkey’s, but loved the idea of Arceus-Fighting on sun. After a little more testing, I retired and deleted the team, and it was forgotten about for a while.

    Around the same time as this, I came up with a really unique sand team. It seemed to do quite well at first, beating skilled users such as Hyw and Anikrahman1995 (http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-46383623), but it failed in other matches, losing to a person that doesn’t even seriously play Competitive Ubers (http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers-46951442). After testing different things and determining that I had no idea how to fix the team, I gave the team to Hack He Must, hoping that he could successfully rate it. Like me, however, he had no idea how to fix it without turning it into someone else’s team or altering it significantly. Mildly depressed, I retired and deleted the sand, turning my attention to other ideas.

    A few weeks later, I started thinking about Scarf Dialga/Ho-oh, the core that I had used on the sand team. Not only did it resist every type in the game barring Dragon, but it seemed significantly strong outside of that. It occurred to me that the core would do better on Sun than Sand, and, after thinking a bit more, it occurred to me that Arceus-Fighting could also fit quite nicely on said sun. Latios and Espeon were added to the team, and the first true draft of Proxima Centauri was born.

    The team did impressively well on the ladder, reaching 2100 or so in its first run-through. I was legitimately happy with it, except for one incredibly irritating factor. It had absolutely nothing for Mewtwo, which regularly swept. I realized that adding a Genesect would alleviate the Mewtwo issue, but including it on the team would open up new issues, like a Giratina-Origin weakness. I decided to let the issue go, and see how I could improve the team in other ways.

    Around this time, the team underwent a facelift; I ran a different set on everything except Groudon. I dropped Roar Latios and Thunder Wave Arceus-Fighting for the sets you currently see in the RMT. Life Orb Ho-oh was swapped for the Choice Band variant and I experimented with different Espeon sets, finally deciding on a bizarre yet effective original variant. Scarf Dialga was dropped entirely, first for physical Genesect, then for the special set when I determined that the physical variant did not work on this team. The team went through many variants, and the current version is:

    In Depth:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Kyogre (Groudon) @ Earth Plate
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Punch
    The most important thing on any sun team, Groudon has been a dangerous threat in the Ubers Metagame ever since its fateful release in Generation 3. Sporting a massively diverse movepool, incredible BSTs, and an anti-metagame ability that powers up some of the strongest Pokemon in the game, Kyogre, err… Groudon is not to be taken lightly.

    When I first created this team, I knew that I wanted something that could both reliably set Stealth Rock while simultaneously providing an offensive presence for the team from the get-go. Earth Plate Groudon provides all that and more; between its three STABs, it gets perfect neutral coverage on everything in the metagame, and its ability to threaten almost every other common hazard setter while getting up rocks of its own is huge for any team that relies on Ho-oh. Earthquake eliminates Dialga and Tyranitar while providing reliable STAB, with Stone Edge as solid coverage to back it up. Fire Punch enables Groudon to easily beat threats such as Ferrothorn and Forretress while also breaking Gliscor’s substitutes in one hit (very helpful if it tries to steal your momentum). Adamant is used for the sole purpose of having more power; even though Jolly is cool to have in some scenarios, the extra damage output Adamant provides is simply too vital for this team.

    [​IMG]
    Charizard (Ho-Oh) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 32 Spd / 224 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Sleep Talk
    - Earthquake

    Here we have what is potentially the best and most dangerous Pokémon in the game with proper support, Choice Band Ho-oh. Though it does require a lot of the aforementioned support and restricts teambuilding in most scenarios, it is a huge threat in Generation 5, and it will likely be even better in Generation 6. It plays a massive support/utility role on Proxima Centauri, functioning as a pivot, tank, stallbreaker, and anti-Darkrai Mon all in one. Like Groudon, it has flawless three-move coverage on everything, with a utility move to back it up. In most scenarios, it’s simply a case of “click Brave Bird/Sacred Fire and watch stuff die”, but Earthquake is nice for hitting random Zekrom, Tyranitar, Heatran, and, yes, Arceus-Rock on the switchin.

    Rather than opting for my usual spread of 152 HP/252 Atk/104 Spe, I decided to make this Ho-oh bulky, running what is considered to be a fairly minor speedcreep on it. The additional bulk pays off; though; at full health, +2 Extremekiller Arceus only has a small chance to kill (+2 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus-Normal ExtremeSpeed vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 355-418 (86.79 - 102.2%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO), and it’s easier to take random Special dragon attacks aimed at it. If prediction is a concern, any variant of Life Orb Ho-oh can be run in place of the Choice Banded one, achieving about the same effect. All you really miss out on is sleep fodder, but that may not even be an issue considering Espeon’s place on Proxima Centauri.


    [​IMG]
    Latias (Latios) (M) @ Soul Dew
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    Most teams need a Kyogre check to function properly, but one does not simply check Kyogre with Latios. One NUKES Kyogre with Latios. While some may question its reliability in dealing with the oversized filet-o’-fish, it’s all that one needs to check it in most scenarios. I greatly prefer it over a more defensively-inclined Pokémon like Latias on a team like this; the extra damage output Latios provides is desirable in this fast-paced Metagame, allowing it to succeed at doing things that Latias only wishes it could do. Its coverage 1-or-2HKOs almost everything in the game, and it’s a very capable stallbreaker to back up Ho-oh. Its EVs and set are fairly standard, providing a nice combination of speed and power to back up its strong attacks.

    It’s important to note that Latios takes more prediction than other Kyogre checks to work, and it has an unfortunate habit of wearing out quickly. Be wary of haphazardly using Draco Meteor early-game; the team has a solid defensive backbone to fall back on, but Latios still doesn’t like being forced out every time it kills something. Also, try to get a lead advantage versus Kyogre, as Latios can realistically only come in on it twice; once to force it out, and once as death fodder to it. Don’t let Latios die to Scarf Kyogre; otherwise, you’ll be hard-pressed to deal with it. You can generally tell whether Kyogre is Scarf or Specs by the damage Kyogre’s coverage does to Latios; if Ice Beam still leaves Latios with a little less than half of its health, just pivot into either Ho-oh or Arceus-Fighting to force out the choice-locked Kyogre. If Ice Beam chips off a gigantic portion of Latios’ health, stay in; it’s Specs Kyogre. Be wary of random people on the ladder using sets such as Calm Mind+3 Attacks Kyogre; it’s sad to lose one of your win conditions to a surprise Ice Beam+Water Spout. Note that in the absolute worst-case scenario, Espeon can either be foddered to or used to pick off a weakened Kyogre with its powerful Grass Knot. However, it’s silly to bank on this and much better to play Latios carefully.


    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Normal (Arceus-Fighting) @ Fist Plate
    Ability: Multitype
    EVs: 100 Spd / 252 HP / 156 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Judgment
    - Stone Edge
    - Toxic
    - Recover

    Arceus-Fighting is a force to be reckoned with in Black/White 2; not only does it boast 120/120/120 defenses (an all-around total higher than some dedicated walls), but it effectively checks both Extremekiller Arceus and Darkrai while also being effectively anti-sun and anti-sand. The set is Donkey’s, speedcreeped to outrun others using Donkey’s Arceus-Fighting set. Judgment is reliable, scary STAB, OHKOing all Darkrai and severely denting things such as Extremekiller Arceus, Dialga, and Ferrothorn. Stone Edge doesn’t see much use, but it utterly wrecks Ho-oh, which can’t take Judgment followed by Stone Edge. Toxic rounds off the set, messing up switchins like Giratina-Origin, Kyogre, and Lugia, with Recover to provide…. recovery, of course.

    Arceus-Fighting is an effective and dangerous pivot that, when combined with Ho-oh and Latios, forms an offensive core that not only hits incredibly hard but is incredibly difficult to break. There is no single Pokémon in this generation capable of breaking all three of them under direct sun, and there is virtually nothing that is not OHKO’d by one of their coverage moves, barring a few support Arceus forms and bizarre nichemons (even those just barely avoid the one-hit KO in most scenarios). These three Pokémon really round off the team, and I think they’re the main reason why Proxima Centauri has been so successful.

    [​IMG]
    Xatu (Espeon) (F) @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 208 Spd / 252 SAtk / 48 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Grass Knot
    - Yawn
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]

    Espeon has always been an interesting Pokémon in Ubers. While it does require prediction and aggressive playing to work, I believe that it’s vastly superior to a Rapid Spinner like Forretress on sun. Rapid Spinning is incredibly difficult in Generation 5, due partially to the fact that bulky Ghost Pokémon run rampant in the tier and partially to the fact that Forretress can be offensively pressured to the point where it has no realistic hope of pulling off a Spin versus Hyper Offense. Also, something like Forretress kills my momentum and is largely unnecessary when I have Ho-oh/Arceus-Fighting/Latios to check whatever it was capable of “checking” in the first place. Not only does Espeon maintain momentum versus offensively-oriented teams with Yawn, but it poses a suitable offensive presence with base 130 Special Attack and will always be there to reflect hazards back at my opponent for me (as opposed to Forretress, which hates Spinning after its Sturdy is broken and, as mentioned previously, is utter deadweight versus most HO).

    The idea of Modest Espeon was inspired by one of my friend’s teams, but the spread itself is original and tweaked to better suit Proxima Centauri’s needs. I lowered the Speed to the point where it only outspeeds positive-natured base 90s (which is all it really needs) and chose to invest primarily in Bulk and Special Attack, with a Modest nature to deal more damage to key threats such as Groudon, Kyogre, Tyranitar, Rain Ferrothorn, Deoxys-S, and Giratina-Origin. The bulk doesn’t really prevent any relevant 1-2HKOs, but it’s still nice to have nevertheless.

    The moveset is bizarre, but it works surprisingly well. Shadow Ball is key for eliminating bulkier variants of Deoxys-S as well as nailing things hoping to switch in on Psyshock, like Latios, Mewtwo, and Giratina-Origin. Grass Knot hits all three primary weather-setters (sorry, Hippowdon and Abomasnow) and can be used to get the last laugh versus variants of Arceus-Rock. Hidden Power Fighting is chosen over HP Fire due to the fact that the rest of the team roasts Genesect and Ferrothorn alive and that I wanted a better way of damaging key threats like Dialga and Extremekiller Arceus. Yawn is potentially the most frustrating move in the game, preventing Espeon from being utter deadweight/setup fodder and pseudo-phazing threats to rack up residual damage and push Pokémon into a range where either Ho-oh or Latios can KO them. These moves combined make Espeon incredibly frustrating to deal with, and give it a solid position on my team.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor (Genesect) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Download
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bug Buzz
    - Ice Beam
    - Flamethrower

    For the longest time, I couldn’t decide which Scarf Pokémon I wanted to fit on this team. The primary candidates, Scarf Dialga and Physical Genesect, didn’t really work; Scarf Dialga made me massively weak to Mewtwo, and the lack of a solid steel-type was unfortunate. Physical Genesect deprived me of a reliable lategame cleaner and left me weak to Giratina-Origin, and just didn’t really seem to work on this team outside of that. Recently, however, I became inspired by Hack and Smodrone to use Special Genesect, and It’s worked for me ever since. It achieves a sort of happy medium between Scarf Dialga and Physical Genesect, hitting key threats such as Mewtwo quite hard while also cleaning nicely lategame. +1 Sun Flamethrower is deceptively strong, and, though the beefed-up U-turn of Physical Genesect is missed, this still hits what it needs to.

    Bug Buzz is useful for cleaning up lategame and OHKOing properly-EV’d Mewtwo and Darkrai, while also hurting typical switchins like Ferrothorn. +1 Sun Flamethrower kills Ferrothorn and Forretress many times over, while also doing cute things like 2HKOing Specially Defensive Dialga in sun and messing up Genesect switchins. Ice Beam OHKOs Groudon (but it’s better to lead with Latios or Espeon versus it) while handily taking care of Giratina-Origin. Even though it doesn’t hit as hard, U-turn still forces out/hits what it needs to, and is still a fantastic scouting move.


    Shout-outs:

    -Blue Jay, for sitting through the many ladder matches I went through to perfect Proxima Centauri, and for suggesting that I RMT the team.

    -Hack He Must, for helping me understand the Ubers Meta and rating my earlier teams.

    -Kebabe, for inspiring me to use CB Ho-oh and predict “like a real man” instead of hiding behind substitutes like a wuss.

    -Donkey, for creating an awesome Fightceus set (sorry if I unintentionally butchered the EVs a little) and not getting a shout-out in my last RMT X)

    -Vileman, for not doing anything for the team but being a nice guy I guess ?.?

    Ubers Bros:

    -Polop
    -Blue Jay
    -Hack He Must
    -Finalninja243
    -Sweep
    -Hyw
    -RiskvsRewardPlayer
    -Anikrahman1995
    -Shaymin 492
    -Haruno
    -CarbonTheSecond
    -Ogasian
    -Hydra
    -Melee Mewtwo
    -Vileman
    -Kebabe
    -ThisMysteriousGuy (R.I.P.)

    My apologies if I forgot anybody. Enjoy the team!

    Exportable:

    Kyogre (Groudon) @ Earth Plate
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Punch

    Charizard (Ho-Oh) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 32 Spd / 224 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Sleep Talk
    - Earthquake

    Latias (Latios) (M) @ Soul Dew
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Arceus-Normal (Arceus-Fighting) @ Fist Plate
    Ability: Multitype
    EVs: 100 Spd / 252 HP / 156 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Judgment
    - Stone Edge
    - Toxic
    - Recover

    Xatu (Espeon) (F) @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 208 Spd / 252 SAtk / 48 HP
    Modest Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Grass Knot
    - Yawn
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]

    Scizor (Genesect) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Download
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bug Buzz
    - Ice Beam
    - Flamethrower
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
    MrKijani, Blue Jay, Roxer and 7 others like this.
  2. PokemonLionKing

    PokemonLionKing

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    58
    One question. Why is Sacred Fire, a special attack, on a choice BANDED Ho-Oh?
  3. Donkey

    Donkey

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    529
    This is a solid team, except I'm not a fan of Espeon. Espeon is notoriously weak in ubers and is basically just used as fodder so you can bring in favorable switch on the enemy SR user. I actually used a team like this in the SPL vs davidness and hazards were the biggest threat to the team, I had Taunt Mewtwo instead of Espeon to prevent hazards from Groudon and stuff like custap Forry/Skarmory. I also had Magic Coat Fightceus to help vs Deo-S. Running jolly on Groudon ensures that you outspeed and OHKO most Dialga variants so they become less of a threat. Also something to try is custap Forretress>Espeon, as your team really likes having hazards.


    Also, I run max speed on my fightceus just so I can get desperation toxics off sometimes.
  4. Steeljackal<3

    Steeljackal<3

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    538
    PokemonLionKing, you're absolutely right, I will change Ho-oh to a specs set with Earth Power and Air Cutter as coverage n_n

    Donkey, I gave my reasons for using Espeon in place of Forretress. The team has a lot of stuff that forces switches, therefore appreciating hazards, but I'm not sure Forry would be best here. Aside from my general dislike Custap Forretress due to how easy it can be to anti-lead and its unreliability as a spinner, Espeon provides me with a margin for error in case a hazard setter such as Dialga or Deoxys-S manages to come in on Ho-oh or, heaven forbid, a -2 Latios. Keeping Rocks off the field is, I cannot stress this enough, absolutely crucial to this team's success. By adding Forretress, I greatly compound my weakness to Giratina-Origin and Arceus-Ghost, as Forretress isn't spinning as long as they're around and my primary switchin to them is incapable of winning if Rocks are up.

    Max Speed Fightceus has its perks, it's something I could test. The bulk is nice to serve as a backup check to things like Kabutops+SD Arceus Form cores, and I think all Arceus-Fighting should run at least some special attack investment, but there are definitely situations where max speed would have helped me.

    In other news, I managed to peak at #1 on the ladder using this team and a modified variant of Hyw's. Thanks to everyone in the shoutouts, and all my friends besides those listed.

    1st #1 Ladder Peak.png
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  5. Vileman

    Vileman

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    553
    Not in shotouts smh
    Anyways, nice team bro! You know i hate espeon but well talk about that on friday. I dont have amny comments but the ones i have i hope they end up being useful:
    I would higly suggest you to run lum berry>earth plate on groundon, being burned leaves him as set up fodder for plenty of stuff, and just as a useless poke for the rest of the match. It also works as a pseudo lure for darkrai :o
    Another little thing its thunder>flamethrower on genesect. I made this change as suggested on my own gene and it hurts ho-oh and kyogre a lot, and ferrothron can be torn down with bug buzz anways.
    Thats it! You deserver your spot on ladder (i got haxed so you are def 1rst ~n_n~) and again, nice team.
    See you
  6. Pen Ink

    Pen Ink

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2011
    Messages:
    335
    You might want to read about Sacred Fire again. :)
  7. Steeljackal<3

    Steeljackal<3

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    538
    Thank you for the suggestions..!

    Ogasian, Lava Plume is a mildly outdated move on Groudon. I use Fire Punch, as it hits everything Lava Plume hits to more or less the same effect, but primarily does a lot more to Ferrothorn: 252+ Atk Groudon Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 316-376 (89.77 - 106.81%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO, Lava Plume: 44.31 - 53.4% (this is for something such as Sand Ferrothorn. It's situational, but reassuring to have the stronger move nonetheless.) Also, Lava Plume requires me to change my nature to something such as -Sdef, which really isn't ideal for those times Groudon needs to take a hit from something such as Scarfkia. You are right about the burn chance being nice though :)

    Vileman, I added you to shout-outs b/c you're just that awesome. Earth Plate is used on Groudon to deal more damage with Earthquake, which is really noticeable versus Extremekiller Arceus and Dialga (nets a 2HKO on the former, with a guaranteed chance to OHKO any sane variant of the latter). Darkrai really isn't an issue for this team when half of my mons utterly shut it down, and I have Ho-oh (one of the best, if not the best burn absorber in the game) and Espeon to reflect WoW back at my opponent if I'm feeling lucky.

    Thunder is really nice on Rain/Weatherless/Sand Genesect as a last-ditch effort versus stuff like Ho-oh and Omastar, but one of the main reasons to use Special Genesect on sun is +1 Sunny Flamethrowers, which are very nice to clean with if Ho-oh goes down prematurely. Thanks anyway ^^

    Also, this team is sitting 46-1 on the ladder currently. I wish people would stop trying to steal my peak :(

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