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Psyc/Dark/Fight Bulky Core

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by frewboo, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. frewboo

    frewboo

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    9
    The Plan
    Everyone's heard of the classic Grass/Fire/Water trio, where each hurts one and gets hurt by the other. But to me the trio that is far more interesting is the Psychic/Dark/Fighting trio. So I decided to make my first serious OU team using that principle in mind.

    Team-building Process

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I chose these three monsters because not only did I want the P/D/F trio, but I wanted them to be offensively bulky. Going off of that, Conkeldurr and Reuniclus are two obvious choices. Then I chose Hydreigon because he is the only dark type in the tier other than Tyranitar, who I didn't want because Hydreigon worked better as a special attacker. I also threw Trick Room into the mix and gave all of them negative speed natures, and that worked out interestingly.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Next, to counter balance the slow, bulky trio for when Trick Room wasnt rolling, and also for potential late game sweepers, I chose Garchomp and Gyarados, as they are both extremely strong and can check just about anything the other three cant. I experimented with other options, such as Scizor and Terrakion, but they left me too open to Fire, Water, Ground, etc. Garchomp fit the best in terms of typing.
    [​IMG]
    Finally I realized that a rocker/rapid spinner would be very useful on this team. I chose Donphan because he is bulky, can play off of trick room, and has access to Ice Shard, which is very useful when dealing with dragons.

    Analysis

    [​IMG]
    Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Facade

    I took full advantage of guts here with Facade and Drain punch. Negative Speed nature and 0 IVs to keep him slow so as to play of trick room and "outspeed" unsuspecting foes. I chose Ice Punch over Payback because I have plenty of other covers for psychic and ghost pokemon. It also deals with them dragons.
    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP/ 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Fire Blast
    - Roost
    - Surf

    The dark side of the trio, Hydreigon works as a strong special attacker with plenty of staying power. Dragon Pulse as the main STAB move. I opted out of a second dark STAB for coverage moves. Fire Blast hits ice foes that I outspeed thanks to trick room. Surf takes advantage of rain teams as well as hitting annoyances like Gliscor and Heatran. Roost is to ensure longevity and the potential for sweeping.
    [​IMG]
    Reuniclus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Shadow Ball
    - Psychic
    - Recover

    Here we have the kingpin of the Trick Room trolling. Max HP and SAtk for max power and life. Standard two offensive moves that hit a plethora of things hard. I opted for recover over Focus Blast because I hate accuracy checks, and as my only Trick Roomer the jelly kid needs staying power.
    [​IMG]
    Garchomp @ Choice Band
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature

    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Fang
    - Dragon Claw

    Enter the strong and the fast. While not being the strongest Dragon in the tier, Garchomps biggest plus is that he outspeeds every other un-scarfed dragon in the tier except Latias and Latios, both of which can be countered with Reuniclus and Hyrdreigon. Outrage and Earthquake are the two main STABs. Fire Fang is there to hit Scizor, Ferrothorn, Forretress, etc. Dragon Claw works as another strong stab that can be used for hit and run tactics on weakened teams.
    [​IMG]
    Gyarados @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge
    - Ice Fang

    The second speedy threat, I used the classic Dragon Dance set here. Gyarados also works great in the rain with waterfall, and Stone Edge checks Ice types rather well. Ice fang is there for coverage against dragons, ground types, you know the drill.
    [​IMG]
    Donphan @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake

    The final member of the team, Donphan supports with rapid spin and steal rock, while also using Ice Shard for coverage. This set is fairly self explanitory, with no real straying from the unconventional. Like, this is the set right off of Smogon. Take a look there if you really need an essay to understand how this works.

    Conclusion

    Now you may be thinking, wait, this team is quite vulnerable to ice types. But that really isn't the case. Gyarados outspeeds most ice types unboosted, and Stone Edge deals plenty of damage to keep them on the run. Latios and Latias are definitely qualified to make the threat list, but with some careful playing and good use of trick room, they can be dispatched. Also, this team is tough to play against weather, as only Gyarados benefits from rain, Hyreigon and Garchomp sort of benefit from sun, and really no one benefits from hail or sand. So it may not be the best team in the world, but it's a good break in the monotony of the constant staples of OU. I hope I brought you an interesting play style and an unconventional team. If you want to see and earlier version of this team in use, check out this video. It's not all with this team, but I think I win one game and lose one game with it, so it's nice to see the strengths and weaknesses. Until next time!


    Importable:
    Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb​
    Trait: Guts​
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef​
    Brave Nature​
    IVs: 0 Spd​
    - Drain Punch​
    - Mach Punch​
    - Ice Punch​
    - Facade​
    Hydreigon @ Leftovers​
    Trait: Levitate​
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef​
    Quiet Nature​
    IVs: 0 Spd​
    - Dragon Pulse​
    - Fire Blast​
    - Roost​
    - Surf​
    Reuniclus @ Leftovers​
    Trait: Magic Guard​
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef​
    Quiet Nature​
    IVs: 0 Spd​
    - Trick Room​
    - Shadow Ball​
    - Psychic​
    - Focus Blast​
    Garchomp @ Choice Band​
    Trait: Rough Skin​
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP​
    Jolly Nature​
    IVs: 0 Spd​
    - Outrage​
    - Earthquake​
    - Fire Fang​
    - Dragon Claw​
    Gyarados @ Life Orb​
    Trait: Intimidate​
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP​
    Adamant Nature​
    - Dragon Dance​
    - Waterfall​
    - Stone Edge​
    - Ice Fang​
    Donphan @ Leftovers​
    Trait: Sturdy​
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef​
    Impish Nature​
    - Rapid Spin​
    - Stealth Rock​
    - Ice Shard​
    - Earthquake​
    X5Dragon and scotti like this.
  2. Im Skalayle

    Im Skalayle

    Joined:
    May 28, 2013
    Messages:
    25
    I would like to make some suggestions and make some changes if you are willing to work with me.

    You lack a good Special defense wall. I suggest Jirachi because Latios and Latias tears a hole in this team and even if latios is specs its still a 3HKO after stealth rocks.

    Jirachi@leftovers
    252 Hp 252 Spd 4 Atk
    -Twave/Body slam
    -Iron Head
    -Wish
    -Protect

    You are lacking something scarfed and somthing scarfed can come in handy and sine your Hydro and Reuniclus are running the same evs items etc you can scarf Hydro.
  3. Chronic Smash

    Chronic Smash formerly XenoBlade911

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2013
    Messages:
    211
    Hey dude,that is an interesting team,but I have a few suggestions.

    1)Leftovers over Flame Orb on Conkeldurr,that way you can keep the Guts ability a secret and also Bulk Up over Facade,so you can get a boost of your sky-high attack Stat and your pretty decent defense

    2)Like Skalayle pointed out you lack a Special Wall,so I recommend you replace Reuniclus with Specially Defensive Jirachi,so you can have something to switch with ease for the likes of the Lati twins.

    3)As for Hydreigon I recommend you put the 252 HP ev's into speed so you dont get outsped by mamoswine which could you trouble,also Superpower and Dark Pulse over Roost and Surf as well as a Hasty Nature,you might thing Superpower is weird but it helps get rid of the pink blobs while Dark Pulse provides another form of STAB and allows you get past Reuniclus with ease.Also Life Orb>Leftovers so can also dish out more damage and not locking yourself in a move.

    4)I also see you lack a scarfer so I recommend you use Choice Scarf over Choice Band or Garchomp so you can deal with Scarf Salamence.Also I would suggest you replace Outrage with Stone Edge,so you can have EdgeQuake coverage which is always a good thing if you want to deal with Thundurus-T

    So those are basically my suggestions hope I helped! :D

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    252 HP/236 SpD/20 Spe
    -Body Slam
    -Iron Head
    -Wish
    -Protect
  4. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,499
    Hey Frewboo, it's great to see under-used things like a P/F/D core in OU teams, kudos!

    A major problem I can see this team having is that there's ony one Trick Room setter, but half the team is tailored to be in TR all the time. I think it would be best to switch Hydreigon and Conkeldurr's sets to work outside TR as well (give them their speed back!) since Reuniclus is sure to take a beating if it constantly has to set up TR, and you'll find TR isn't up all match since it only lasts five turns (four, since one turn is used to set it up, three since you have to switch to an abuser!). I think you'll find that switching their sets to be a bit more speedy will work better in the long run. Anyway, now for more concrete suggestions...

    First thing I want to address is Conkeldurr. Conkeldurr is a really great Pokémon, despite what some might say (shameless plug for my Conkeldurr team a few months back...), but I think you should change your set. It's true that Guts Conkeldurr is really powerful, but it also takes a nasty 12% damage each turn, even if you don't attack anything useful (i.e., you opponent sacs something they don't need). I think you should go with a Sheer Force Life Orb Conkeldurr. Since Ice Punch and ThunderPunch have secondary effects, they get boosted by Sheer Force, Life Orb, AND they don't cause you to lose health to LO recoil! The elemental punches are actually stronger on this set than they are on the Guts set, and you aren't even taking any damage! Since you're running Trick Room, you can also opt to run Fire Punch over Mach Punch to beat the Scizor that look like they give your team trouble. It also gives you a way to beat Forretress and ferrothorn as well, without taking any LO damage.

    Next, Reuniclus is really hurting. It wants to be able to Recover so you can set TR up multiple times, but it also wants the power and coverage that Offensive TR Reuniclus can have. I think, since it would be better to make your team less reliant on TR, you change Reuniclus to a full Offensive TR set. You said yourself that Runiclus is a monster under Trick Room. Well imagine that same monster, only with a LO boost that doesn't give any recoil! It can tear through teams late-game, or punch holes in walls early-game. This should make it easier for your other Pokémon to clean up. I can understand that you want to use Recover so that you can continually put up TR, but don't worry, I have a suggestion to fix that as well.

    Donphan really doesn't do much for your team. You Have two Pokémon that resist SR, one that is immune to Spikes, and one that is immune to all hazards! It's true that Gyarados does appreciate SR being gone, but I don't think it's enough to warrant Donphan a spot on the team. I think you'll find that if you switch Donphan for SDef Jirachi, your team will find it much easier to stay alive. The main reason to use Jirachi is Wish. Your team would LOVE Wish support. It means that 1) you don't have to have a spinner, since Gyarados can be healed by Wish 2) You don't need to run Recover on Reuniclus, since Wish can heal it instead 3) Conkeldurr can take whatever LO damage he wants, he can quickly be healed it the need arises. Wish could be the single greatest utility for this team, since it can help keep everything alive long enough for the opponent to get worn down to a point where you can sweep with something. Jirachi can also provide SR, and a check to Latios, which could otherwise be a problem. Paralysis support can also be useful if Reuniclus dies, since you can make things slow without TR, meaning that even if you don't have TR, Conkeldurr can still rip through paralyzed foes.

    One more minor change is that I think you should switch Garchomp to a Scarf set, and give it Stone Edge over Dragon Claw and Fire blast over Fire Fang. Withotu a Choice Band, Fire blast does more to things like Skarmory and Forretress that would otherwise be a bit of a problem for it. Stone Edge lets you revenge kill Volcarona and Gyarados that have gotten to +1, which could otherwise be very scary to face. Scarf in general lets you revenge Kyurem-B, Salamence, and Dragonite as well, which is always useful. Overall, I think Scarf fits the team better than Band, since this really isn't a full TR team.

    Hope I was able to help! Good luck with the team!

    Sets/Changes


    [​IMG]
    Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 136 SDef / 120 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - ThunderPunch
    - Fire Punch
    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 SDef / 20 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head
    - Stealth Rock
    - Wish
    [​IMG]
    Recover, Leftovers--->Shadow Ball, Life Orb
    [​IMG]
    Band, Fire Fang, Dragon Claw--->Scarf, Fire Blast, Stone Edge

    Jaiho and Starline like this.
  5. Goddess Briyella

    Goddess Briyella Hurricane Briyella: Category Five
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2013
    Messages:
    1,548
    Hi frewboo!

    This is an awesome team you have here. I have a suggestion about Reuniclus's moveset.

    [​IMG]

    If you're going to run Shadow Ball to hit the Psychic types that resist your STAB, you are walled by Dark types, and also Steel types. If you're wanting to run Recover for the survivability, I suggest switching Shadow Ball to Signal Beam so that you can at least super effectively hit the Dark types that are immune to your STAB, in addition to having the super effective hit on Psychic types that Shadow Ball already has. You also have the option of running Focus Blast over Shadow Ball to hit Dark types AND Steel types super effectively, but then Psychic types will resist both of your attacks and Focus Blast's accuracy is a bit unappealing; still an option though. So if you absolutely want to keep Recover, the set I recommend is as follows:

    Reuniclus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Signal Beam
    - Psychic
    - Recover

    However, if you're willing to forgo Recover, there is an excellent set that will certainly aid in Reuniclus's offense after disadvantaging foes with Trick Room. It relies on Focus Blast's shaky accuracy, but all in all it's a very potent set. Commonly known as OTR (Offensive Trick Room), as Halcyon of Light mentioned, this set is incredible in that you can benefit from Life Orb's power boost without suffering the recoil damage from it, thanks to the Magic Guard ability. If you'd like to try it, this set is as follows:

    Reuniclus @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball

    You might prefer HP Fire in that last slot to secure key KOs on notable threats like Scizor and Ferrothorn. Well, I hope you find my input helpful or at least thought-provoking! I wish you luck with your team!
  6. Starline

    Starline

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    24
    Hello frewboo, I was going to write up a bunch of suggestions for your team but then I saw that Halcyon of Light said exactly what I was planning to tell you, haha.

    Apart from implementing Halcyon's suggestions, I'd make one last change and say that since Specially Defensive Jirachi can already take special hits, you can afford to change Hydreigon's set to a Mixed Attacker with a Naive or Rash nature. Something like:

    Hydreigon @ Life Orb/Expert Belt | Levitate
    Rash | 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
    Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Superpower / Roost

    This gets the best offensive coverage while retaining the ability to switch into various things that threaten the other members of your PFD core. Feel free to move some speed EVs into attack, HP, or defense, since you are spending some time in Trick Room and don't always need the speed. Earthquake is also a nice option over Superpower.
  7. frewboo

    frewboo

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    9
    Thanks for all of the help. Not criticizing anyone, but I'm just wondering why it took a week for anyone to reply. anyways, I understand the concern with only having 1 Trick roomer, and I've often been frustrated with it before. The wish Jirachi and life orb reuniclus is a fantastic idea that I should've seen earlier, and I will definitely try that out. I actually went back to focus blast over recover as many people lead with ferrothorn and focus blast does about 80 percent to physically defensive ferro, which is generally what is run. In regards to Hydreigon, I understand what you're talking about, and I've noticed that trick room sometimes works against him because his base speed is already decent. Seeing as how Garchomp outspeeds all dragons except Latios/Latias, I opted for the band instead of the scarf just to get something that could hit really hard. And honestly so far on Pokemon Showdown I have had no trouble with either Latios or Latias. Reuniclus under trick room can almost always take a Draco Meteor and then 2HKO with shadow ball. The only issue would be the almost never seen max Sdef max Health Latias, which is 3 possibly 4HKO. The same principle applies to Latios, and really even more so since he has lower defenses. With the recommendations about Conkeldur, I'm not sure. Yea, the whole losing health thing sucks, but really the whole idea I had behind his set was that he didn't have to set up under trick room. The elemental punch set proposed by Halcyon seems interesting, and I'll give it a go. But I'm glad you all liked how I tried to do something different, and thanks for all the feedback!
    Halcyon. likes this.

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