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Resource PU Old Gens + Discussion

Discussion in 'PU' started by Akir, Mar 5, 2017.

  1. Many

    Many

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    926
    some DPP PU noms:

    [​IMG] from S to A+
    Probably a very controversial nom, but I feel it has its merit. Rhydon is a great pokemon offensively- it's very hard to switch into, it can set up the valuable Stealth Rocks, it checks the omnipresent Muk, and it has viable options for sweeping both defensive and offensive teams with Swords Dance and Rock Polish respectively. Yet, while it is such a great attacker, it is becoming increasingly hard to keep alive as the meta gets faster and more offensive. Almost everything that Rhydon traditionally checks is very capable of running HP grass, and its poor speed tier leaves it easily outsped and OHKO'd by most pokemon because nearly everything that is capable of speedcreeping it does. Overall the meta does not give it a lot of breathing room at the moment.

    [​IMG] from A+ to S
    Muk is better than everything in A+ by a significant margin. Not only that, it is one of the pokemon that you absolutely need to prepare for on every team. Even if you have something like Rhydon or Metang to counter the Curse set, it can still put in work because it checks every non-Psychic type special attacker in the metagame and an wear them down over the course of the game with hazards. Furthermore, Muk can easily carry moves to lure its checks and counters, such as Giga Drain, Fire Blast, and Payback, and paired with pokemon like Lickilicky or Gastrodon it has incredible resilience over the course of the game. While Muk definitely has its flaws, it is meta-defining enough to be put in S.

    [​IMG][​IMG] to A-
    Psychic-type pokemon are very good right now. These two may not be quite as good as Kadabra maybe, but they are very useful pokemon and splashable on teams. Mr. Mime is possibly the best Choice Scarf user in the tier, providing great coverage and speed tier, as well as either Healing Wish or Trick support. Its nice special bulk can also be very useful for pivoting into pokemon like Poliwrath. Nasty Plot sets are also ridiculous vs. common defensive cores like Muk + Rhydon + Poliwrath. Xatu is a very cool offensive threat that does not get enough usage. Its immunity to ground, grass resistance, and access to Roost gives it a deceptive amount of switch-in opportunities, and possessing Heat Wave means it can beat certain Psychic-type checks like Metang easily. Xatu's Calm Mind set is also pretty strong right now, especially since it can overwhelm Sableye and other pokemon who rely on status to beat it (Synchronize). Life Orb sets can run Tailwind which is great paired with mons like Rhydon and LO Monferno.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] to A+
    Two of the best walls at the moment. Both of these pokemon check or counter the majority of the tier, and are getting more popular for good reason. Lickilicky is an amazing special wall who relies on you hitting Focus Blasts to beat it, and is actually capable of checking plenty of physical attackers as well. It is also one of the few pokemon in the tier who can viably support the team with Heal Bell, although running Toxic or Power Whip is probably a better option. Gastrodon is perhaps the most common mixed tank in the meta, and it will check pretty much everything without grass-type coverage and even most grass types are annoyed by Toxic on the switch. Being able to beat the two most prominent pokemon in the meta with ease- Poliwrath and Muk, is also an incredible benefit.

    [​IMG] from C+ to B+
    I love this pokemon right now. It's a great tank that can 1v1 and even switch into a lot of pokemon with its great bulk, such as Poliwrath, Golbat, and Sableye. Thunderbolt is very spammable in this metagame since the only prominent resists can be easily taken out by Hidden Power Grass, and you can easily speedcreep for Rhydon and everything slower than it. I've been using a set of Thunderbolt / HP Grass / Focus Blast / Signal Beam with Magnet and having a lot of fun, because almost nothing switches in. You can also run Choice Specs of course, or Leftovers, and Heal Bell is great in the last slot as well because of how few pokemon learn it. While it appears to be outclassed by Electabuzz, after using it this is simply is not the case. Electabuzz is much faster, but Ampharos is a lot stronger, especially when running a Modest nature, and it has much much better bulk.

    [​IMG]from C+ to B
    It's a good alternative to Poliwrath. Takes on slightly different threats (for example checking Golduck much better and can check Psychic-types), but it retains Poliwrath's good speed tier and overall bulk. Nothing special but a better mon than a C+ ranking would indicate. Encore + 3 attacks is pretty annoying just as it is in ORAS PU.

    [​IMG] from Unranked to C+
    Banette isn't great, but it's still a cool pokemon that's usable for offensive teams. It has the strongest reliable priority in the tier, which is always cool, and it is a pretty good wallbreaker with Life Orb. Shadow Claw resists are sparse in this tier and Will-o-Wisp annoys most of them. Speed tier is also pretty nice as it gets the jump on most Poliwrath and everything below. Of course, it has pretty much zero defensive capabilities and really isn't all that strong, but I think it is good enough for a rank.

    [​IMG] from Unranked to C-
    Curse + White Herb with Simple has a niche on hyper offense teams. It can set up on some more common pokemon like Rhydon and Muk, and go to work with its perfect coverage of Waterfall/Return, and Quick Attack can also clean up weakened Electabuzz/Kadabra/etc. Of course, being weak to Vacuum Wave sucks and it is extremely reliant on a weakish Quick Attack to sweep so I don't think it should go any higher.

    [​IMG] from B to C-
    I've tried this mon a few times because it is cute, but honestly it isn't worth running. Color Change is certainly cool, but Lickilicky is just better. It's much bulkier, especially physically, can support the team with Heal Bell and Wish, and it is even more threatening offensively.

    [​IMG] from A- to B+
    I really like this pokemon, but the metagame isn't kind to it right now. Being walled by Poliwrath and Gastrodon just sucks, no matter its other positive traits, because these pokemon are on just about every balanced team currently.

    [​IMG]from A to A-
    Good mon, but I think the defensive set struggles a bit much for an A-ranking after the meta moved on from just running slow bulky cores. Because of how hard it is to remove Stealth Rocks, it is very easy to pressure with Roost and quick to lose momentum. When you think about it, the only prominent pokemon it can consistently switch into are grass-types (still scared of Sleep Powder!), and a few defensive mons like Gastrodon and Muk.
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
  2. Aaronboyer

    Aaronboyer formerly Boyeraj17

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Some Generation 4 VR Nominations (EDIT: sniped by Manyy for some of the noms)
    [​IMG]
    Victreebel A+ --> S
    One of the things I like about Poliwrath is that it has the same checks (Bellossom, Gastrodon, Pelipper, etc.) for almost all of its sets. However, Victreebel has completely different checks for each of his sets. Metang sufficiently checks LO and Scarf variants, but gets OHKO's by Weather Ball in the Sun. Kadabra can outspeed and kill it with Psychic, but alas it got outsped by the Scarf variant. Pelipper can come in and KO it with Air Slash, but Oh No, it used Swords Dance. This is the new Pokemon all DPP PU Players need to run checks for in order not to get swept and I think VR should reflect how much of a threat Victreebel has become since its greatest GSI, Drifblim, is now gone.

    [​IMG]
    Muk A+ --> A+
    Muk served as one of its best checks to Drifblim when it was in the tier. However, after Drifblim became suspected and banned, Muk lost alot of its utility. When Gastrodon was discovered as a Pokemon that could check "The Big 3" of which Muk was included, Muk's utility sank even further. Muk also has to compete with Victreebel/Golbat as an Offensive/Defensive Poison-Type respectfully, each having admiral traits that can outshine Muk for the right teambuild. Overall, Muk still is a fantastic DPP PU Pokemon that checks top tier Pokemon such as Poliwrath and Cacturne, but the current metagame has not been kind to our favorite Gen 1 Sludge Monster. Keep it A+ for now.

    [​IMG]
    Rhydon S --> A+
    Another one of "The Big 3" that has lost its touch in the current metagame. Along with the dreaded "Big 3" check Gastrodon, Rhydon is checked by Poliwrath, Cacturne, Victreebel, Misdreavus, Machoke, Pelipper, Metang, Electabuzz, and more, which gives it little opportunity to set up a Rock Polish and attempt a sweep. Furthermore, a weakness to the 3 most popular forms of priority (Bullet Punch, Vacuum Wave, and Ice Shard) along with weakness to all forms of entry hazards spell disaster for Rhydon. Additionally, two 4x weaknesses to types that are primarily specially-based are unadvantageous with Rhydon having a measlely Base 45 Special Defense stat. Overall, Rhydon is nowhere near as viable as Poliwrath or Victreebel, and I believe deserves to drop.

    [​IMG]
    Gastrodon A- --> A+
    As the metagame has shifted away from the "Big 3," Gastrodon's ability to check a multitude of threats with reliable recovery and only one weakness has been invaluable to all team archetypes. Gastrodon's team compression has lead to more variety in the tier and he's overall just a great glue Pokemon. If you've played the tier for any amount of time since the Drifblim Suspect, it's evident how much Gastrodon has affected the metagame, and a raise in viability would reflect how much he's impacted the tier. Not much else to say, other than this Pokemon is completely underrated for his abilties currently on the VR.

    [​IMG]
    Electabuzz A- --> A
    Electabuzz is by far the best Electric-Type Pokemon in the tier with its fantastic Base 105 Speed and great Base 95 Special Attack. LO Electabuzz has the ability to 2HKO almost the entire tier, which very few Pokemon can claim title to. It also can run a Scarf set that outspeeds the entire metagame. Overall, its a great revenge killer and I think it gotten better recently.

    [​IMG]
    Metang B+ --> A-
    Metang's coveted Steel/Psychic typing, good defensive stats, and access to both hazards and priority makes itself a solid Pokemon to form a defensive core with. Most notably, it's found with Cacturne and Gastrodon, whom stack hazards and whittle away at the opponent's Pokemon little by little. Metang doesn't lack offensive presence either, as Meteor Mash, Zen Headbutt, and Earthquake come off of its not-too-shabby Base 75 Attack Stat.

    [​IMG]

    Articuno B --> A- or B+
    While it may have a 4x Stealth Rocks weakness, Articuno's massive 90/100/125 bulk makes SubRoost not only a viable option, but a lethal weapon as it Toxic-Stalls your team away. The Ice Birb works extremely well in tandem with HP Lure Purugly, who eliminates Rhydon and Onix from the game extremely early. It does require adequate support, but overall performs well on the battlefield. Just don't bring it in while Rocks are present.

    [​IMG]
    Murkrow B- --> B+ or B
    I'm going to just echo what GeneralAnnoyance has said a few posts back about how good Murkrow is. It's Dual STAB hits neutral against almost the whole tier, and it sits at a wonderful Base 91 speed stat, so it can outpace a large portion of the metagame. It also has Pursuit, Sucker Punch for priority, and Roost for reliable recovery. It's pretty underrated, although one has to ask, Why does GA love all the underappreciated Birbs of the tier? Hmmm...

    [​IMG]
    Pelipper B --> B+
    Pelipper functions similarly to Gastrodon in the fact that its a Water-type wall with few weaknesses and reliable recovery. The main difference here is that Pelipper trades a Stealth Rock weakness for U-Turn momentum. It also checks Poliwrath offensively better than Gastrodon with STAB Air Slash.
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
  3. Akir

    Akir Follow for a free Decorative Glass Cup
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    Hello, I am here with a quick Gen4 PU VR update. This one will be fairly small but should have changes that most everyone can agree with. I would like to see more discussion about Muk and Rhydon in particular before I touch those, but for now:

    Lickilicky from A- to A+
    Gastrodon from A- to A+
    Cacturne from A to A+
    Rapidash from A+ to A
    Electabuzz from A- to A
    Metang B+ to A-
    Pelipper from B to B+

    I plan on making a much larger VR change before gen7 hits us, but I'm watching the tournament to see where exactly the meta is going in the hands of not-me. Until then, I would like some more discussion, especially over what should be in S. To me, the only mons worthy of S atm are Poliwrath and Victreebel, so the question of if S should be stricter (and possibly only be Poliwrath) or be a bit more lax (letting in Victreebel and possibly Muk) is one that's actually pretty important and I want other people's opinions first before I go ahead and change stuff.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  4. Kushalos

    Kushalos Let the joy of love take you higher
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Tour Champion

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    that fucker (open)

    [​IMG]

    id like to talk about how dumb dunsparce is in adv pu. Not only is it stupidly bulky and versalite, it can cripple literally anything that tries to check it with a simple body slam through the serene grace boosted parahax, which even uninvested 2hkos most things in the tier because of dunsparce his above average stats. Fighting types(Combusken/Meditite) can't switch in at all. Rock types(Omanyte/Shuckle) can take hits, but get worn down fast easily with spikes and cant do much back. Most Ghost types suck, can potentially get popped by a shadow ball, and cant do much back either. Theres people resorting to bad sets like taunt wisp gastly just to have a chance at sort of beating dunsparce. I know people have been complaining more about dragonair, but i feel like this is the one that should be getting priority with a suspect. Im sure old gen low tier god Heysup shares my sentiments and would maybe like to add something as well.
    Magnemite, Funbot28, galbia and 18 others like this.
  5. Wenderz

    Wenderz

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    Jun 26, 2016
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    Concerning Gen4 PU S-Rank, I would rather divide the S-rank and create two or three rank (S+, S- and maybe S too) instead of dropping Rhydon and let Muk and/or Victreebel in A+. My point is the following: even though Poliwrath, Victreebel, Rhydon and Muk may not be exactly at the same level right now, I think they are the most metagame defining Pokemon and more consistent than Pokemon in A+, none of them has a guaranteed counter (they aren't the only ones though). Their influence are enough to make you choose Psychic over another coverage move in order to deal with either Poliwrath for Water type and Muk for Electric type (among other) and HP Grass for Rhydon (Lickilicky and Gastrodon have a similar impact too), while Victreebel doesn't make you run a specific coverage move for him since he's not a defensive Mon, you'll probably need several potential answers depending of the set he could run. Obviously they have their flaws: Rhydon is very difficult to set up in some match ups, idem for Victreebel who often needs one turn to either set up SD, Sunny Day or has to rely on Sleep Powder to cripple his check, Poliwrath may not have enough power sometimes and Muk can be a dead weight as well depending of his set and the opposing team... But each Pokemon has its defects. If you approve my suggestion about dividing S rank, then which Pokemon would put you put in each rank, because I'm not sure about that right now.
    LordST and Akir like this.
  6. Heysup

    Heysup I'm your rational mind.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    I obviously agree with this. My adv PU games which I genuinely prepared for Dunsparce with Encore Shuckle and Omanyte an CB Fighters etc were literally just haxed to death. Both of my games came down to whether or not I or my opponent was luckier with Dunsparce hax and obviously I lost both of those coin flips. Maybe I would not be as adamant about banning it if I had won but I would have also won solely because of Dunsparce hax. It basically turns adv pu into a terrible tier that I would never want to play from a tier that I actually would otherwise enjoy.
    Aaronboyer and pancake like this.
  7. Honko

    Honko he of many honks
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    So now that the DPP meta has settled down post-Drifblim, I'd like to discuss Roselia a bit. I don't really see a reason to keep it banned. I understand that it probably made sense to ban it when first building the tier because hazards are always scary in tiers that lack good spinners, but looking at the meta now, I don't think Roselia would be overpowered or even a top 10 mon.

    Keep in mind that Spikes + Sleep Powder and Spikes + Leaf Storm are both illegal egg move combos for it in DPP, meaning it can't force many switches on any set that runs Spikes. There's also obviously no Eviolite, so any defensive set is relying on pathetic 50/45/80 bulk (worse than Cacturne's). The only thing it can really switch in on consistently is Poliwrath (even Gastro's EQ hurts quite a bit), and tbh Poliwrath is probably the most risk-free Pokemon in the meta right now so I don't think it would be a bad idea to introduce something that punishes it a little.

    Toxic Spikes seems like it has some potential to be a bigger issue, since there are no other good setters and Roselia can use Sleep Powder and Leaf Storm with it to force more switches and get more chances to set up, but T-Spikes simply don't seem like a very consistent investment in this meta where two of the top four mons (Muk and Vic, and add Roselia itself as well if it turned out to be any good) absorb them for free. It would win some games on certain teams for sure (as it should), but I don't see it dominating the tier.

    Overall Roselia just doesn't seem like it would even be consistently worth a teamslot over other mons like Cacturne/Bellossom/Victreebel, let alone be broken. I could end up being totally wrong, but I'd like to see it get a chance in some roomtours or something, because I think there's a good chance we could unban it after PU Classic without hurting the tier (possibly even improving the tier slightly by making Poliwrath and other Waters a little less great).
  8. Akir

    Akir Follow for a free Decorative Glass Cup
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    Announcement:
    40bff8667d1351bd...4605922-4e4482a.jpeg
    Gen3 will be suspect testing Dunsparce!
    This will not affect the PU Classic in any way

    Dunsparce, with its high defenses, great movepool, good attacking stats and setup, and ability Serene Grace, has proven to be a centralizing force in the Gen3 PU metagame. With extremely limited counters and low opportunity cost, Dunsparce fits on to most teams with little to no problems and almost always has a high payout for use. Few mons can properly stop Dunsparce, and those that can are prone to being lured or simply being haxed to death. Due to all of these reasons and many others, Dunsparce has been deemed worthy of a suspect test.

    This suspect will be voted on by a small Rotating Council of knowledgeable and proven users. In order to qualify for the Rotating Council, you can:
    1. Win a suspect tournament. Times for these will be posted below. There will be 4 tournaments for this suspect.
    2. Make a quality post about your thoughts on the suspect. There will be 2 possible slots that can be filled in this way at this time, but these slots are decided by the other chairs on the Rotating Council by the end of the suspect. There can be no one filling these slots at all, depending on quality.
    What is a quality post? (open)


    A quality post on the suspect test will consist of a few things. The main thing to keep in mind is asking yourself, "if I could vote, what would my argument be?" Your answer will be your post.

    Here are some pointers:
    • Try to keep away from over-exaggeration. "Dunsparce is the best thing in the tier ever" better be true, or it hurts your argument.
    • Try to add a new viewpoint to what has already been discussed. The more information that is available, the better the final decision can be. You don't have to add a new viewpoint, but it does help.
    • Go as in-depth as possible. Don't write a novel, but really explore and explain your ideas.
    • Answer the question of "Why". Why is Dunsparce bad/good for the metagame? Why is the presence of Dunsparce unhealthy? Why is Dunsparce perfectly fine in this metagame? Why should the people reading care about your idea?
    • Try to format your post in an easily-readable way. This is the most minor point here, but formatting the layout of your post to be easier to read and using a good tone in your writing goes a long way.
    • Have fun with your post! This is a hobby after all.


    The Rotating Council for this suspect will have a minimum of 5 and a maximum of 7, including the project lead. A super-majority must be achieved in order for the ban to go through. A simple majority is not enough; 60% or more of the votes must be to ban.

    Also no, this does not count towards any badges.

    Suspect Tournament schedule:

    Thursday, June 22nd, at 8pm EST
    Saturday, June 24th, at 1pm EST
    Sunday, June 25th, at 1pm EST
    Tuesday, June 27th, at 8pm EST

    The Tuesday Tournament is subject to possible time changes. If it does change then there will be a post announcing the change in advance to the date.

    FAQs (open)


    • Suspect Tournaments will be held in private rooms on the main server, and will have Dunsparce legal. If the tournament has >8 people, it will be Round Robin.
    • The reason private rooms are utilized is to reduce the number of DQs and keep the tournament on-topic. A DQ of an uninterested person gives the other player a bye and therefore strong advantage.
    • The system for suspecting stuff is new, but it worked well for Drifblim so let's test it again.


    Current Council (open)




    Let's finish the OldGen Renaissance with a bang before we dive into Gen7!
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  9. Slowbroth

    Slowbroth

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    gonna give my quick two cents here

    [​IMG]

    one of dunsparce's biggest issues in the tier at the moment lies in its fantastic bulk, giving it much more opportunities to do what it wants to do than other frailer set up Pokemon, such as combusken or smoochum. no other pokemon can tank hits in general as well as dunsparce can, and this in turns means that dunsparce is free to click body slam, paralyze things and just being an annoying son of a bitch. another compounding issue besides dunsparce's great bulk is its lack of effective counters -- typically normal stops are tanky steels and rocks or fighting types that have good enough bulk. with the previous meta, we had machoke, lairon, even graveler was decent at pressuring dunsparce from setting up and forcing it out. ghosts aren't great answers either because they either can do nothing in return, or they are KOed by shadow ball. in this meta, we have two viable but frail fighting types, no offensive steel outside of aron that can pressure dunsparce, and our rock types lack the resources to check dunsparce effectively, whether it be not good enough bulk or too low offensive stats. dunsparce's icing on the cake is how many things it can do and teams can essentially use its versatility to mold its role on the team; it could be a lure mon, a wallbreaker, status spreader or a late game set up sweeper. overall if the tier had better answers to dunsparce, i'd vote to keep it unbanned, but with the far too few amount of answers it has in adv pu at the moment, it's hard not to say ban.
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  10. Rennyjesus

    Rennyjesus

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    414
    Hey Guys! Let's talk a bit about Dunsparce

    [​IMG]


    I have suffered quite a bit every match I had against this thing, and had a really easy time getting easy wins against some other teams...

    The sets that I've tried the most are Resttalk and Paraflinch Duns, and both are disgusting on their own...

    Dunsparce @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Curse
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Body Slam

    Dunsparce @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Atk or 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Headbutt
    - Thunder Wave
    - Earthquake
    - Shadow Ball

    I know that Duns can use more sets (even special ones with some nasty chances of freezing for example), but IMO this two are just the most annoying and uncompetitive. Dunsparce by itself is a really good pokémon for ADV PU, because it's like a mini Snorlax, with a decent typing and since ADV PU doesn't have a lot of Fighting types and even the principal two (Meditite and Combusken) will fail to deal with it after a few curses. Also, ADV PU doesn't have enough Special attackers to 2HKO it (No Specs, No Life Orb, No Special Fighting moves, and basically no Special Attack over 90 Base Points), which makes Dunsparce basically hard to deal with by a LOT of the meta.

    Sure, CroDuns can't effectively deal with Ghost Types, and can be kinda checked by Rock and Steel types but at +6, even mons like Shuckle can be get past by with a little bit of luck and both Ghost Types that we could find in this beta (Gastly and Duskull) are easily removed with Pursuit from Houndour (which is just a small amount of support and with HP Grass can even deal with Rhyhorn). Also, speaking about luck, logically every single battle is just a matter of luck if you and/or your opponent are using Paraflinch Duns. I guess we couldn't eliminate all the uncompetitive things of the game but Dunsparce is now abusing a few of them.

    So, this is kinda like Togekiss in a few past gens, where it just dealt with a lot of the meta just relying in sheer luck instead of skill, So, please ban this...

    Those are just my two cents... See ya!
    CrazyStevy likes this.
  11. SergioRules

    SergioRules

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    Mar 26, 2015
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    First off, I'd like to say that I know I'm not the greatest player ever. But I do consider myself to be at least decent. I've found it much harder to get into old gens though, simply because I don't know the mechanics as well. However, I know enough to know that there is a reason Dunsparce is being suspect tested. In case there are people who don't follow the meta as much, I figured I would elaborate on the reasons in Akir's post.

    • Dunsparce, with its high defenses: 100/70/65 defensive stats aren't generally considered too great in today's meta, but in Gen 3 where most attackers in the PU tier don't have a stat over 90 and set up moves are limited to Swords Dance, Calm Mind, Dragon Dance, and Curse and even those are fairly sparsely distributed, it's on the upper side of bulky.
    • great movepool: I don't know how well I agree with this point, but Dunsparce definitely has all it needs. A good setup move in Curse to increase both Attack and Defense, Rest for recovery, Sleep Talk if you opt for it, Body Slam as a spammable STAB that will reward the user with a 60% chance to paralyze the opponent (though I'll mention that later), Hidden Power of choice for whatever coverage, and Shadow Ball to take on Ghost types. That's really all the moves it should viably be using, thought I'm sure someone could pull off a Sub+Calm Mind set.
    • good attacking stats and setup: 70/65/45 attacking stats. Again, like its defenses, not terribly good by modern standards. But coupled with its bulk and setup moves, its 70 Attack can get pretty high, pretty quick.
    • and ability Serene Grace: I think this is the worst feature of Dunsparce for the metagame as it turns most matchups into a game of luck. Body Slam now has a 60% chance to paralyze and if used with Headbutt's now 60% chance to flinch (which has dropped off in usage but can still be viable), the opposing Pokemon only has about a 30% chance of attacking if it moves after Dunsparce which it likely will because of paralysis. Even without Headbutt, having a 25% chance of not attacking, recovering, or doing whatever else you're trying to do is much too luck reliant. I would almost compare it to Machoke in Gen 6, but even though that was 50/50's, there were a lot of faster things that could outspeed and KO it with Super Effective moves.
    • has proven to be a centralizing force in the Gen3 PU metagame/With extremely limited counters and low opportunity cost/Few mons can properly stop Dunsparce and those that can are prone to being lured or simply being haxed to death: Looking at the Viability Rankings, I see a few things that look higher than they should be. These being Gastly, Dustox, and Duskull. I believe they've only risen in usage specifically to try and check Dunsparce. Ghost types are immune to Body Slam obviously and because of that, many Dunsparce started running Shadow Ball. Dustox has the ability Shield Dust which prevents the paralysis from Body Slam, flinching from Headbutt, and any other added effect that it can throw out. It can also use Whirlwind to faze out a Dunsparce who's setup with Curse. However, outside of that, I can't see much use for any of these Pokemon. I know that getting under used mons more usage is normally a good thing, but requiring one of two options to beat it is what I would call over-centralizing.
    The counterplays to Dunsparce are very limited and overall I don't think it fits in a meta that has a very small number of wallbreakers, therefore, if I were given the opportunity to vote, I would support a ban.
  12. Chrisloud1

    Chrisloud1

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2016
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    Hold your horses...

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Furret from unranked to C (Akir helped with a lot of this)
    Lead Furret

    Furret @ Choice Band
    Ability: Keen Eye
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
    - Focus Punch / Aqua tail
    - Double-Edge
    - U-turn
    - Trick
    Set Explanation (open)

    Furret's set. Adamant nature with double edge is preferred to Always 1hko machoke and for extra damage(which furrets needs it). Jolly nature could also be used to outspeed glalie, monferno, misdreavus and golduck. Focus punch hits rhydon, probopass and relicanth while aqua tail hits rhydon, armaldo and probopass(not that hard as focus punch). U-turn for momentum and trick to cripple walls. You can also fit sucker punch somewhere if u really need the priority. Shadow claw would also be an option on it if your team is weak to misdreavus but it will lost coverage which furret needs.
    Furret lead matchups+Explanation (open)


    Role: Scout lead
    Good against: Machoke, Glalie,
    Bad against: Armaldo, Sneasel, Monferno, Lopunny, Electabuzz, Poliwrath, Onix

    Furret limits Glalie to 1 spike, limits onix to rocks/sun(U-turns out, breaking sash) and 1hkos machoke. fuck machoke

    252+ Atk Choice Band Furret Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Machoke: 304-358 (100.9 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    Comparing it to purugly, furret has some worthy niches. One of them is trick. With trick furret can cripples walls like psychically defensive poliwrath. Furret also breaks some walls purugly would never do. Examples of these are Gastrodon, Pelipper(without rocks), Probopass, Relicanth, Rhydon(without random lures) lickilicky and armaldo.

    Relevant Calcs (open)

    252+ Atk Choice Band Furret Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Lickilicky: 235-277 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Furret Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 140 Def Gastrodon: 258-304 (60.5 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Furret Double-Edge vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 237-279 (65.6 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Furret Focus Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rhydon: 322-380 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (87.5% to ko after rocks)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Furret Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 548-648 (169.1 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Furret Focus Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Relicanth: 300-354 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (100% to ko after rocks)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Furret Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 128+ Def Pelipper: 181-214 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Furret Aqua Tail vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Armaldo: 164-194 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (100% chance to 2hko after rocks)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Furret Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Misdreavus: 174-206 (53.7 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (1hkos offensive misdreavus)


    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4uu-595614151 (Furret doing stuff)

    Also
    [​IMG]
    Voltorb from unranked to C-
    Rain lead

    Voltorb @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Static
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 def
    Naive Nature
    - Thunder
    - Explosion
    - Taunt
    - Rain Dance

    This is probably the best lead rain has. It sets rain on almost everything. Lead matchups:
    Role: Set rain
    Good against: Monferno, Onix, Electabuzz, Armaldo, Glalie, Poliwrath
    Bad against: Lopunny, Purugly, Sneasel

    Voltorb also gets static which can wreck the bad matchups it has as a lead.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  13. Solar Flare

    Solar Flare

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    58
    THIS IS AN ADV PU POST ABOUT DUNSPARCE
    I don't know if this will be a very thought provoking post or even an easy to understand one because I'm kinda just ranting, but I'll give it a go.
    Dunsparce is a very troublesome mon in ADV. I won't go in depth since a lot of people already have, but I'll highlight some of its biggest issues here real quick. Dunsparce has fantastic 100/70/65 bulk. To compare, other bulky mons not named shuckle tend to have less bulk such as Mightyena, Delcatty, and Dustox, all of which are somewhat passive mons but with high utility. In Dunsparce's case however, it has a decent 70 attack which it can boost with the fantastic boosting move Curse. It also is a normal type, which grants it one of the best stabs in the tier. To add onto this, Dunsparce also has Body Slam, Headbutt, Shadow Ball, Earthquake, and Rock Slide, which is a fantastic movepool when paired with its awesome ability Serene Grace. To top it off though, Dunsparce also has Thunder Wave, an incredibly good move in the ADV PU metagame as its really the only move in the tier that effectively speed controls threats. So dunsparce basically just uses a combination of its fantastic bulk, good utility, and great offensive movepool to beat a lot of its would-be counters in the tier as well as stomp out a lot of offense oriented teams. Because of these reasons, I say ban dunsparce.
    LordST likes this.
  14. Aaronboyer

    Aaronboyer formerly Boyeraj17

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2014
    Messages:
    177
    [​IMG]
    I think the majority of people agree that Dunsparce has an unrivaled stat distribution, an unmatched movepool including boosting moves Curse and Calm Mind, an amazing Mono-Normal defensive typing, and a nearly-broken ability in Serene Grace in combination with STAB Body Slam and Headbutt. However, I firmly stand behind my belief in that Dunsparce should not be banned. Before I go into too much detail on how I came to the conclusion that I did, I am going to ask you to refrain from disregarding this post solely because its Anti-Ban, and that you'll have an open mind. With that being said, here is my reasoning for why Dunsparce should remain unbanned.

    I would like to first point out that the updated version of ADV PU only came to us about 7 weeks ago. It took somewhere between 2-3 weeks for all of the ADV Resources to be updated, which leaves only 4-5 weeks for the metagame to "adapt" to Dunsparce (only 2-3 weeks where Dunsparce was S Rank), which is in my opinion not enough time, especially since ADV PU doesn't have its own ladder. If given more time, Dunsparce would become less of an issue due to more Pokemon running appropriate coverage. Evidence of this is shown in Dragonair opting for HP Fighting instead of HP Ground to hit Sealeo and Dunsparce, and the 250% increase usage of the move Facade between rounds 1 and 2 of the ADV PU Open.

    My 2nd point is that a decent portion of the metagame can OHKO, 2HKO, or check a mahority of Dunsparce's sets. These include, but are not limited to: Yanma, Combusken, Quilava, Lombre, Omanyte, Clamperl, Mankey, Meditite, Rhyhorn, Shuckle, Duskull, Mightyena, Aipom, Cubone, Anorith, and Volbeat. Dunsparce isn't unbeatable by any means. Yes, Dunsparce is an S Ranked Pokemon that requires all teams to pack checks for it, but so is Tapu Lele in SM OU and Muk in ORAS PU. People sometimes try to mesh the ideas of "S Rank" and "Broken" together, and Dunsparce in my opinion is the former and not the latter.

    Lastly, I would like to bring up the inflation on Dunsparce's abilities. No one is denying that Dunsparce is the best Pokemon in the tier by far. However, many of the proponents for Dunsparce's ban overexaggerate his capabilities, which make people who don't know much about ADV PU perceive Dunsparce as uncheckable. Base 70/65 Atk/Sp. Atk is good, but the damage calculations show that Dunsparce isn't as overbearing as many people claim it to be. People then want to say that a 60% chance to Para/Flinch is uncompetitive due to probability management issues that turn the battle from emphasizing on skillful plays to emphasizing on RNG. To a large extent I agree. However 60% isn't 100%, and most of the time its attacking stats aren't even invested.

    I would like to conclude by saying that this is a very controversial opinion for me to make, and I appreciate you for keeping an open mind. However, I wouldn't be posting this if I weren't very adamant about the subject. I'd like to ask all council members to carefully reconsider voting not ban. I wouldn't mind to have another suspect test after the PU Classic finishes and the metagame becomes fully developed. I am sorry, but I just do not see believe that Dunsparce has pushed himself over the edge, thus leading me to believe that it deserves to remain unbanned.
    EviGaro likes this.
  15. Chrisloud1

    Chrisloud1

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2016
    Messages:
    69
    Dunsparce Suspect test:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Before anything I wanna say I'm proban for several reasons, these are:

    • Versality- One of dunsparce biggest problems. Dunsparce can easily run 5 good sets. Special has some checks, while psychical sets have others. This means that when u see a dunsparce you have no idea of what is going to do making it even harder to play around it. You basically have to guess a set and go to your check of that set, if its another set you are pretty much screwed.

    • Number of counters/checks- First of all dunsparce doesn't have counters, and has a pretty low amount of checks. Shuckle is a pretty good check to some dunsparce sets, but on other sets its either set up fodder(calm mind cro sparce) or 3hko and haxed to death(banded dunsparce). Combuskeen can "check" some dunsparce sets working as a NSI but it doesn't even 1hko (not even banded) and if it has some curses up its doing nothing. Ghost types beat only 1 set of dunsparce(cro sparce) and loses to the other 4. So we can say its impossible to prepare for all dunsparce sets in one team. Even if a mon checks that set it can be haxed to death. Dunsparce also have 5 teammates to cover really easily this low amount of checks(like really only like 4 mons are consider "checks").

    • Set up opportunities- Dunsparce sets up on a huge portion of the metagame. Like really it sets up on, Marshtomp(defensive), omanyte, Ivysaur, Quilava and many more common threats. This means dunsparce is guaranteed to set up on multiple mons in your team, you cant run a team without mons that are set up fodder for dunsparce. With this, plus the low amount of checks, mean dunsparce will always be a threat for you team.

    • Stats- Dunsparce has fantastic bulk (100/70/65). Dunsparce also has offensive presence with 70/65 plus boosting moves. This stats don't look like the biggest thing, but in the gen 3 metagame where most mons are NFE/LC and a low amount of fully evolved ones, make look this stats really high.

    • Ability + Movepool- Dunsparce gets the ability serene grace and moves to abuse this in a tier with a low amount of checks, these being Body Slam, Head butt, Rock Slide, Ice Beam, Iron Tail and Shadow Ball. These moves also give dunsparce good coverage and good stabs. Dunsparce also gets good boosting moves in Curse and Calm mind which makes the stats look even better, The speed drop on the curse variants doesn't really matter when you are paralyzing everything and the fastest mon is base 100.

    Resuming everything, Dunsparce has good moves, stats, abilities which give dunsparce versality and a ridiculous amount of set up opportunities. I'm positive that if dunsparce gets banned, the gen 3 teams will have more variety and matches are probably going to be more fun.
    Aaronboyer likes this.
  16. Rennyjesus

    Rennyjesus

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    414
    Hey dude!

    While I kinda agree with some parts of your post, I fail to get over a few of your points...

    In your second point, you say that Dunsparce has a lot of checks in this meta considering what can OHKO or 2HKO it and you mention some like:

    Wall of Calcs (open)

    Combusken:
    252 SpA Combusken Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dunsparce: 140-165 (34.6 - 40.8%) -- 58.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Combusken Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dunsparce: 272-320 (67.3 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Combusken Brick Break vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Dunsparce: 183-216 (45.2 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    If Duns gets the curse on the switch in, Combusken will be rendered unable of dealing with it in two turns excluding Crits and will be paralyzed 60% of the time, making pretty easy for Duns to get an extra Curse now and then and beat a whole team.

    Yanma:
    252+ Atk Yanma Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dunsparce: 409-482 (101.2 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Yanma Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dunsparce: 107-127 (26.4 - 31.4%) -- 19.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +1 252+ Atk Yanma Reversal (200 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 0 Def Dunsparce: 154-182 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Sure, Duns will fall like a fly against a full powered Reversal, but why would you try to beat a Yanma before getting full of curses? and at +6, even +1 Adamant Yanma fails to deal over half...

    Quilava:
    252 SpA Quilava Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dunsparce: 135-159 (33.4 - 39.3%) -- 15.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    It's gonna be paralyzed, and then stalled to death...

    Lombre:
    252 SpA Lombre Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dunsparce in Rain: 168-198 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    U have to get rain up and then hit Duns with at least two HPumps in a row without being paralyzed... That's less than 5% chance of success thanks to Serene Grace Paralyzing 93,6 % of it's targets in three or less turns and the chances of missing at least one Hydro Pump.

    Omanyte
    252+ SpA Omanyte Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dunsparce in Rain: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Sure, Omanyte IN RAIN, can 2HKO it with Hydro Pump, but having less than 20% chance of success thanks again to Serene Grace chance of Paralysis which will usually be more than enough to allow Duns to outstall the rain turns and then:

    252+ SpA Omanyte Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dunsparce: 158-186 (39.1 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Clamperl:
    252+ SpA Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dunsparce: 221-261 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    This is like literally the only special poké that can 2HKO Duns directly... however, it does need to invest at least 108 EVs in Speed to outspeed non invested Duns after the first Curse, which is kinda a signal for something overcentralizing.

    Meditite:
    252+ Atk Pure Power Meditite High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dunsparce: 409-482 (101.2 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Well it's obvious that something with that kind of monstrous attack and a SE STAB move should be able to dispose of it... however after just ONE turn:
    252+ Atk Pure Power Meditite High Jump Kick vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Dunsparce: 275-324 (68 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +1 0 Atk Dunsparce Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meditite: 166-196 (82.5 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Also without adding the Paralysis chance...



    Also, like Linoone in Gen V, Duns just need a really small amount of support against some of the things that really struggles with like Duskull and Gastly with mono attacking sets, but even then, the support is not hard to give, since it can be paired with Houndour, a poké that will destroy both ghost types with just Pursuit and can even lure or beat a few of it's other checks like Rhyhorn, Volbeat and even Meditite. Tapu Lele was technically more manageable because her principal STAB had a few immunities that were not as easily trappable and also because in GEN 7 thanks to U Turn and Volt Switch, a team can scout with ease which kind of move will use Lele... The thing about Duns is that we practically know what is gonna run and thanks to a high chance of success given by Serene Grace we basically need a sheer amount of luck to avoid being haxed to death by that thing...

    Finally I would like to add again as a precedent the story of Togekiss a few gens ago... Togekiss had decent defensive stats, probably uninvested attacking stats and a really mediocre speed and typing considering the meta and it was still banned because it was deemed uncompetitive, just by seeing how it could shrug a few attacks from the scarce turns that its opponent could do something and haxing them to death afterwards. I feel these two are REALLY similar and we could even argue for Dunsparce to be better in this case because Normal is a decent defensive typing for ADV PU.

    So, while I think it might be premature to remove Dunsparce, the uncompetitiveness that includes its use and playing against it makes me opting to argue for that ban again.

    See ya guys!
    tenkai and Plans like this.
  17. Megazard

    Megazard Practically Useless
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Messages:
    4,274
    I avoided making a post for a while just because there's really nothing to say that hasn't already been covered, but since I'm on rotating council not making a post would probably be kinda shitty. So let's talk about the way suspects are done. I had to win 3 games in a suspect tour to qualify, none of the other tours were much bigger, and other people will be picked for simply dumping a lot of text here. No, these posts aren't bad, but the consensus has always been very heavily in favor of banning Dunsparce and these basically rehash the same basic arguments. I think setting up a permanent voting council for the PU old gens would be much more effective than trying to get suspects done. Yes, community input is great, but it definitely looks and feels like a stretch to choose who gets to vote in these. Couple that with the fact that these gens are static (no tier shifts) and there likely won't be many votes anyway, I don't think mildly limiting input is going to be that much of an issue. This just seems a bit unnecessary, especially in the case of Dunsparce when there's such a massive consensus on what ought to happen to it. Anyway, Dunsparce has 0 true counters, completely centralizes the meta around stopping Dunsparce and promoting your own Dunsparce, and makes for a much less fun game. We should get rid of it.
  18. Akir

    Akir Follow for a free Decorative Glass Cup
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2014
    Messages:
    504
    Gen3 PU Dunsparce Results:
    dunsparce.png dunsparce.png dunsparce.png dunsparce.png dunsparce.png dunsparce.png dunsparce.png dunsparce.png
    All of the votes are in, and in an unsurprising 6-0 vote, Dunsparce is now banned from Gen3 PU!

    Here is the rotating council for this suspect (all votes are anonymous unless the person wants to state it):


    Thanks to everyone who participated! This was a pretty clear-cut suspect test, but there was still a good amount of debate and lots of great matches.

    I think I finally have this system nailed down after the 3 suspect tests that we did. That being said, thanks to everyone again for playing and go enjoy the new Gen3 PU metagame!
  19. SergioRules

    SergioRules

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2015
    Messages:
    95
    I was going to respond to this but wanted to wait until the suspect was over, but I really liked this idea of a permanent council. Obviously, tier leaders would have to decide who to be on it and that'd be just one more thing for them to figure out, but I think it'd be worth it. Like zard said, there won't be any major tier shifts now that the metas are fairly stable since Gen 3's overhaul and likely won't be too much to vote on so it wouldn't be a too demanding job. I still think there could be some community input in the way of less rotating seats. I'd imagine something like 4-5 permanent Old Gens council members and then 2-3 spots up for suspect tournament winners if the community or tier leaders feel they are really needed. Zard also points out that there's normally a very large agreement already among the community about most suspect tests (Drifblim is the only one I can see that seemed controversial) and having a permanent council of people who are already very familiar with the metas will be able to make decisions easier.

    I don't mean to criticize the way things are currently done, but it just seems like a permanent council would make things a little easier in the future. I've thought about this idea for a while so I hope others share my sentiments.
    Aaronboyer and LordST like this.
  20. Akir

    Akir Follow for a free Decorative Glass Cup
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    504
    To be honest, this is my plan going forward. Out of all of the suspects, I liked the Drifblim one the best as it ended up having a set council with a decent amount of rotational seats. I think, in the future, a split of 3-4 council/2 suspect tours/1 forum is probably the best going into the future.

    This does present the problem of "who" will fill these, but that can come with time. But as for the Dunsparce one...well honestly I was testing the waters. The Linoone suspect was mainly a council vote, the Dunsparce suspect was mainly a rotational vote, and the Drifblim one was mixed. After watching the reactions to all of these, the Drifblim suspect was the most widely-accepted system so I will be using that one in the future. Besides, even if it was largely clear-cut, there was still some decent debate and the suspect tours were good quality.

    As for who will be in the councils...well, that is to be decided.
    LordST, SergioRules, 2xTheTap and 3 others like this.
  21. Chrisloud1

    Chrisloud1

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2016
    Messages:
    69
    Who needs gen 7 when you have gen 4?

    Gen 4 VR noms:


    [​IMG]
    Rhydon S to A+ = This mon isn't as threating as it was. The tier has adapt to it in a ridiculously way. Literally every mon speed creeps Rhydon If it can. Not only that but the mons that rhydon can usually "wall" started using hp grass just to kill Rhydon. Its just hard to keep it alive when a huge portion of the metagame outspeeds and on the mons you usually can come in run hp grass. Don't get me wrong rhydon is still good, specially cuz its really hard to switch into and stealth rocks are nice. Rock polish makes it a nice wincon and Double dance is still good just really hard to set up now days. Its just no longer an S threat in my opinion at least.

    [​IMG]
    Victreebel A+ to S = When they first told me about this I disagreed but I have been using it a lot and I have changed my mind. It has versality, each set with different checks/counters. Lately in 4 of my 5 times I have use a Victreebel, its just so splashable and easy to fit on teams. Sword dance is a great wallbreaker, self setting sun its a nice wincon, mixed is also really good. Great mon in general and hard to check it when teambuilding just makes it S rank worthy right now.

    [​IMG]
    Kadabra A+ to A = Another threat that isn't the same. People actually prepare for psychic types now. Like in the early meta this just just destroyed teams. Another thing is that kadabra is a wallbreaker that cant break the most common walls rn(lickilicky, gastrodon). Also psychic types are risky in the tier in general, sneasel is around and there is no team preview you can easily get pursuit trapped. Kadabra is still good though, the anti lead set is amazing and its still a really good wallbreaker,

    [​IMG]
    Bellossom A to A- = This thing is so hard to fit on teams lately, mainly because is really passive. Golbat being everywhere doesn't help it. On the teams I have seen/I have built lately bellossom doesn't wall much stuff. It can come in on gastro for example, but if this toxics it bellossom will have a hard time. It would be taking toxic+rocks+attack forcing to heal giving free switch ins. Lickilicky just seems a better option for a special wall most of the time.(poliwrath 3hkos with focus blast). Bellossom still has its things though, sleep power/stun spore for example is great and it doesn't rely on 2 moves to heal itself(wish and protect), and its not a free switch in for ghosts(depending on lickilicky set).

    [​IMG]
    Golbat A to A+ = I have been liking this thing lately. It counters muk(unless is running ice punch, which is rare) and some victreebel sets all in one slot. It also can switch in on poliwrath with a specially defensive spread, or just be a NSI if poliwrath has some chip(which is not hard to do) taunt is great utility, and keeps momentum with uturn on things that wall it like rhydon, relicanth or rock types in general. It also has a lead set with decent matchups. Its just gives great defensive synergy with mons like gastrodon for example.


    [​IMG]
    Misdreavus A to A+ = This thing is just so good. NP is a great wall breaker, it has lots of utility in pain split, willo wisp, thunder wave and taunt. Defensive is also a great set switching into Rhydon, Purugly(unless is shadow claw, really uncommon since drifblm ban), Armaldo etc. The NP set with taunt is also really good because it breaks the most common walls rn, gastrodon, pelipper, Lickilicky(depending on the set), Poliwrath and Golbat. Great mon in general.


    [​IMG]
    Metang A- to A = A really good rocker rn. Checks some victreebel and muk sets, SSI to kadabra and can pursuit trapped it, same with mime. Can run explosion to bop something(500 bp), shuca berry to lure, really unpredictable lately.


    [​IMG]
    Lopunny B+ to B
    = I used this a lot on his time, encore and baton pass is a really nice niche, but purugly is better most of the time with sucker punch, fake out, stronger and breaks the benchmark(105). Not B+ rank worthy imo.


    [​IMG]
    Articuno B to B+ = Articuno is just so good, it walls a lot of stuff(poliwrath, cacturne, etc) and subs toxic stalls the common walls easily. Offensive set is also really strong, although is walled by metang but this its not hard to chip down.


    [​IMG]
    Lapras low B- to high B-(Or B tbh) = I used this thing a while ago and specs set is really good. Hydro/ice Stabs and coverage for poliwrath in thunderbolt, breaks sp def muk(25% chance to ko after rocks, technically you win the 1vs1 if no hax involved) and gastrodon with hydro pump. The only thing it cant break is lickilicky which is why I'm not sure if its B rank worthy rn.


    [​IMG]
    Mawile C to C- = Yes sd pass is a niche but mawile is so bad, C- seems legit.


    Old vr noms (I explained this ones a while ago)

    [​IMG]
    Furret unranked to C


    [​IMG]
    Voltorb Unranked to C-

    [​IMG]
    Roselia's re test topic
    =
    I think a re test is would be good, the meta has changed and roselia can be pressured a lot when trying setting the almighty spikes. I even think cacturne would be better to set spikes because it forces so many switches its not hard to set them.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  22. LordST

    LordST formerly Lord Sample Team

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    312
    LST's Hot and Steamy PU Classic Squad Dump

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] OR [​IMG]

    SubPass Aipom + Clamperl Balance (open)
    Submitting For Sample Team
    Aipom @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pickup
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Double-Edge
    - Substitute
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Baton Pass

    Drowzee @ Leftovers
    Ability: Insomnia
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Wish
    - Seismic Toss
    - Protect
    - Psychic / Toxic

    --OR--

    Dragonair @ Leftovers
    Ability: Shed Skin
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder Wave / Thunderbolt
    - Toxic
    - Rest

    Clamperl @ Deep Sea Tooth
    Ability: Shell Armor
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Ice Beam
    - Substitute

    Shuckle @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Toxic
    - Wrap
    - Encore
    - Rest

    Marshtomp @ Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Surf
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    Ivysaur @ Leftovers
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Synthesis
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Toxic
    - Leech Seed


    Description (open)

    This is the team i got the most mileage out of in ADV Cup as it just generally has a great matchup vs a lot of things. The core of Aipom + Clamperl can break through opposing stall/balance while the rest of the defensive backbone checks almost the entire meta. Aipom used to be banded on this team but I changed it to this set about half way through the tour as it has a fantastic match up vs almost every common lead except Minun and is much less prediction based than Band. The aim of this set is to effectively break down normal resists. Aipom subs on most offensive leads that fear the strong normal stab. Once behind a sub on the standard normal resists in the tier like Shuckle and Duskull, Aipom can pass to DeepSeaTooth Clamperl to bring it in safely to start breaking. HP Grass is the filler move of choice to 2hko lead Omanyte, Onix, and threaten Corsola, Marshtomp, Rhyhorn, etc. The rest of the team forms the defensive backbone of the team. Shuckle checks normals and cripples setup sweepers with Encore + Toxic. Marshtomp checks DD Dragonair and offensive rock types like Rhyhorn and Anorith. Ivysaur is here to absorb Toxic as well as check electrics and Waters. The last slot has changed a lot but it has always been the dedicated fire check. During the ADV Cup, I used a few different variations of spdef CroSparce (rip snek). When it was banned, I swapped to Drowzee which can beat pretty much every fire type 1v1 with its sheer bulk but is quite vulnerable to toxic and encore/taunt. Psychic helps you check Combusken a bit better and gives you a way of touching Gastly but Toxic is also an option to do standard Toxic things. Spdef Dragonair is what I've been using more often as it is less susceptible to Toxic/Encore/Taunt and just generally has more offensive presence but is significantly less bulky. Thunder Wave lets you slow down offensive threats and give Clamperl an easier time, but Thunderbolt can also be used for hitting waters like Sealeo and Corsola as well as giving you a way of hitting fire types for neutral damage.


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    Lead Ponyta Offense (open)

    Ponyta @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Quick Attack
    - Toxic

    Omanyte @ Leftovers
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Spikes

    Dragonair @ Leftovers
    Ability: Shed Skin
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Toxic / Thunder Wave
    - Rest

    Gastly @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Thunderbolt
    - Psychic
    - Taunt

    Doduo @ Choice Band
    Ability: Early Bird
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Drill Peck
    - Double-Edge
    - Quick Attack
    - Hidden Power [Ground]

    Beedrill @ Salac Berry
    Ability: Swarm
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hidden Power [Bug]


    Description (open)

    This is some offense I've been having fun with more recently. Lead Ponyta pressures the super common Omanyte lead and can start getting momentum early game with good prediction. The next two mons are checks to the next most common leads that beat Pony 1v1 in Minun and Aipom. Omanyte can come in on Aipom and start getting spikes up to pressure walls for the late game cleaners. This set is the only Omanyte set I use anymore tbh. 72 Speed creeps negative natured Marshtomp so it can successfully 2hko with HP Grass as well as OHKO opposing Omanyte. Dragonair is the dedicated electric and fire check as well as status absorber. I find its nice to have a bulky pivot like Dragonair on offense in a meta like this without team preview. Gastly is here because it is a great stallbreaker. It can come in for free on Shuckle and sub up. Psychic + Thunderbolt gives it near perfect coverage while Taunt keeps spdef walls from recovering or stalling you out. Doduo is here to break down things like Duskull and rock types so that SubSalac Beedrill can sweep late game. It also gives me Quick Attack to stop pinch berry sweepers like Yanma.


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Lead Metang Balance (open)

    Metang @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Bullet Punch
    - Earthquake

    Pelipper @ Leftovers
    Ability: Keen Eye
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 Def / 168 Spe
    Bold Nature
    - Surf
    - U-turn
    - Air Slash
    - Roost

    Rhydon @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Polish
    - Swords Dance
    - Stone Edge

    Poliwrath @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Surf
    - Focus Blast
    - Vacuum Wave
    - Encore

    Bellossom @ Leftovers
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
    - Energy Ball
    - Sleep Powder
    - Synthesis
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Misdreavus @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 3 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Trick
    - Will-O-Wisp


    Description (open)

    I didn't get to play gen4 as much as I'd have liked to during the Classic but if I had made it past round 1 this is probably the team I would have spammed. Lead Metang is one of my favorite leads especially with lead Golbat becoming somewhat popular. With Zen Headbutt it 2hkos Machoke and Poli leads as well as threatening out Purugly leads. Earthquake covers other Metang and Probopass while Bullet Punch gives me a way of helping vs psychics more. Pelipper is here to check non HP electric Rapidash, Metang, Poliwrath etc. 168 speed to creep Jolly Machoke. Poliwrath is the secondary fire check(always scout for random hp electrics), Sneasel check, and Rhydon check. Encore is a neat utility option to help Spdef walls like Licky and Muk. I also felt i didn't need Ice Beam too much as I had Scarf Missy in the back to help check SD Victreebel so giving it free setup isnt as much of an issue. Bellossom is the special wall as I really wanted a hard stop to Electabuzz. DD Lum Rhydon is here because its simultaneously one of the best breakers and sweepers in the tier. Lum Berry is great for setting up on a weakened Defensive Misdreavus or non grass move Rapidash. Missy is my chosen Scarfer to provide an emergency Victreebel or Normal check if Metang has been weakened too much. Trick helps break fatter teams while Wisp helps with the aforementioned SD Victreebel. This team is quite easy to use as its defensive core covers most of what the meta will throw at you. Just play smart unlike me ;_;


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    More Lead Metang Yay! (open)

    Metang @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Bullet Punch
    - Explosion

    Marowak @ Thick Club
    Ability: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Bonemerang
    - Stone Edge
    - Substitute

    Rapidash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Frustration
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Morning Sun

    Pelipper @ Life Orb
    Ability: Keen Eye
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Air Slash
    - U-turn
    - Roost

    Electabuzz @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Static
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Psychic
    - Low Kick

    Victreebel @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Leaf Blade
    - Frustration
    - Sucker Punch


    Description (open)

    Same reasons for lead Metang described above but this time with Explosion. Explosion can help you either grab momentum or get rid of a specific mon you think you might have trouble with which is a great tool for an offensive team such as this. Lum berry is here to more reliably beat Machoke leads. Marowak is here to help with opposing Metangs as my Metang lacks Quake as well as being an Electabuzz check. Sub SD is a great stallbreaker. Everything in the tier gets at least 2hkoed by +2 Marowak and Sub can ease prediction if you aren't sure what your opponent has in the back. Specially Biased Rapidash is a secondary grass check and is Special only cause Akir told me it should be. Offensive Pelipper is great as it checks Poli relatively well while still keeping a strong offensive presence. Pelipper can help break down or weaken common fire checks like Gastrdon giving Rapidash an easier time. I went with Scarf Electabuzz as my revenge killer as I wanted something that could pressure Poliwrath as well as have a strong matchup vs opposing offense with its high speed. SD LO Victreebel is the dedicated breaker on the team and gives me a more reliable way of busting past bulky water types.


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Pony Power (open)
    Submitting for Sample Team
    Rapidash @ Power Herb
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Wild Charge
    - Solar Beam
    - Morning Sun

    Zebstrika @ Life Orb
    Ability: Lightning Rod
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Overheat
    - Volt Switch

    Glalie @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Earthquake
    - Explosion

    Torterra @ Leftovers
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Wood Hammer
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar / Worry Seed

    Beheeyem @ Leftovers
    Ability: Analytic
    EVs: 164 HP / 252 SpD / 92 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psyshock
    - Nasty Plot
    - Signal Beam
    - Recover

    Dodrio @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Early Bird
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Frustration
    - Pursuit
    - Facade


    Description (open)

    I spammed this a ton in BW Cup and it served me well. The team is built around the offensive core of Rapidash and Zebstrika. Rapidash baits in bulky grounds like Graveler and Marowak and does a huge chunk to them with Power Herb Solar Beam while Zebstrika can hit dragons like Fraxure and Gabite with HP ice which wall Rapidash otherwise. Glalie is the dedicated spikes setting lead. Earthquake>Ice Beam gives you the best matchup vs the most leads by letting you pressure Lairon as well as still hitting Graveler and Dwebble. Taunt can prevent other leads from getting up rocks and forces a 50/50 with them. Explosion lets you block spin from the few spinners that are in the tier. Torterra is the rocker of choice as its sheer bulk lets it soft check a lot of dangerous mons in the tier like Fraxure and Beheeyem. The last slot is up to you on what filler option you want to go for but I never really liked Synthesis on such an offensive team as it can kill momentum to let some things in for free while you recover. Roar phazes opposing mons around to wrack up hazard damage. Worry Seed is a neat tech that forces Bronzor out and punishes teams that use it as their only ground check. I forget why I have 52 speed on it but it probably creeps for something important. Beheeyem is a great check to the majority of special threats in the tier like Rotom, Duosion, Golduck, other Beheeyem, etc. Nasty Plot lets it boost pass CM users like the aforementioned Golduck and Duosion. 92 speed creeps base 50s like Muk, Vileplume, and Audino. Dodrio is my cleaner as its quite effective at running through weakened offensive teams with its strong dual stab. It has the nice perk of outspeeding +2 Combusken which is quite useful considering how weak my team is to it. Early Bird also makes it a psuedo check to Jumpluff which the team is a bit weak to otherwise. Facade so it can still effectively revenge kill if it gets burnt randomly.


    Shoutouts (open)

    First off thank you to all the tournament hosts that made the PU Classic run so smoothly. Special thank you to Leru for putting up with all my johning.

    Thank you to Slowbroth for making gen3 happen and helping me learn the meta.

    Akir for helping a ton with gen4 teams. Thank you for answering all my stupid questions.

    TJ for passing me ADV teams and helping me test.

    Special thank you to Chrisloud1 for spending hours on hours building and testing with me. Couldn't have made the run I did without you :U
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
    Many, 5gen, UBERSkitty and 16 others like this.
  23. UBERSkitty

    UBERSkitty

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    52
    So, here are some mons I tried out in DPP PU. I can't say they we're meta-changing or anything like that, but I think they'll have their spots, or at least their niches, in DPP PU's meta.


    [​IMG]
    Seviper @ Life Orb
    Ability: Shed Skin
    EVs: 108 Atk / 220 SpA / 180 Spe
    Naughty Nature
    - Poison Jab
    - Earthquake
    - Sucker Punch
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Overveiw:
    Seviper is a mon that comes in and does it's own thing. Sometimes it's wallbreaking, sometimes it's revenge killing. The 180 speed allows Seviper to reach 211 speed, creeping mons that run enough to reach 210 speed, such as Poliwrath, along with 252 Neutral Cacturne's 209. The 108 Attack and Life Orb allow Seviper to OHKO Mr. Mime after taking SR damage. The rest is put into Special Attack, allowing it to barely 2hko 120 HP Poliwrath, along with picking up some other nice KOES.

    Ups:
    Seviper has base 100 both Attack and Special Attack, which allows it to shine as a mixed attacker. It also has a decent Speed at 65, allowing it to reach certain speed tiers without the use of too many EVs, allowing it to put more into its Attack and Special Attack. Like other mixed attackers, Life Orb is an amazing item for it to hold, as it boosts both its already good Attack and Special Attack. It has a nice movepool to go along with this, with Poison Jab as it's STAB (unlike a certain other Poison type), Earthquake to hit Rocks, Poisons, and Steels that may otherwise wall it, Sucker Punch to hit Psychics and widdled-down faster, somewhat frail mons, and lastly Hidden Power Grass to hit bulkier Grounds and Waters. Some other shout outs go to Flamethrower, Crunch, Giga Drain, Aqua Tail, Taunt, Glare, Haze, Rest, and Switcheroo. It also gets the bonus of having Shed Skin as it's ability, and Dragonair has shown how much handy that can come in. One last note is that while Seviper may seem inferior to Arbok, Arbok lacks access to Sucker Punch this gen, on top of it's much lower offensive stats in both Attack and Special Attack.

    Downs:
    Seviper is almost completely overshadowed by Muk. While Seviper's much higher Special Attack and somewhat wider movepool allow it to pick up a few certain KOES, it comes out as a much more situational mon when compared to Muk's slightly higher Attack, and ability to set up thanks to its much higher bulk. That bringing us to the next problem, Seviper's defenses. They're pretty terrible, with base 73 HP and 60 Defense and Special Defense. This does not pair well with its previously mentioned decent-at-best speed, which can lead to mind games between Seviper's Sucker Punch and faster opponents, assuming the non-STAB base 80 attack picks up the KO at all. Lastly, Seviper if incredibly easy to widdle down, especially in a meta with only one viable hazard remover, on top of the damage it takes from the Life Orb, which it needs to pick up certain KOES.

    Calculations (open)
    108+ Atk Life Orb Seviper Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victreebel: 195-229 (64.7 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    108+ Atk Life Orb Seviper Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Muk: 290-342 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
    108+ Atk Life Orb Seviper Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metang: 228-270 (70.3 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    108+ Atk Life Orb Seviper Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 332-392 (102.4 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    108+ Atk Life Orb Seviper Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Filter Mr. Mime: 195-229 (88.2 - 103.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    220 SpA Life Orb Seviper Hidden Power Grass vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Poliwrath: 178-210 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    220 SpA Life Orb Seviper Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rhydon: 604-712 (172 - 202.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    220 SpA Life Orb Seviper Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 140+ SpD Gastrodon: 296-352 (69.6 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    220 SpA Life Orb Seviper Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victreebel: 328-386 (108.9 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    Replay (open)



    [​IMG]
    Pachirisu @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pickup
    EVs: 248 HP / 204 SpD / 56 Spe
    Calm Nature
    - Discharge
    - Super Fang
    - Toxic
    - U-turn

    Overview:
    Pachirisu serves as a support mon that can check other Electrics (aka Electabuzz), along with certain Waters, such as Pelipper and even Poliwrath in certain occasions. It can also serve as a bulky and relatively slow pivot. Pachirisu's 56 Speed allows it to creep neutral-natured 252 speed base 70's such as Poliwrath and Victreebel. Max HP with the remaining 204 in Special Defense allows Pachirisu to take as little damage as possible from Electabuzz's attacks.

    Ups:
    Look at that face. Anyway, from a more competitive aspect, it has a respectable base 90 Special Defense, along with a decent base 70 Defense. Is high base 95 speed allows it to invest less into Speed more into bulk if it wants to creep something. Electric is a nice defensive typing, gaining resistance to Flying and other Electric, at the cost of its single weakness to Ground. It can widdle down mons like Electabuzz thanks to a combination of Super Fang and Toxic. Being the only Electric with a form of pivot in this gen, due to Volt Switch being Gen 5, with U-turn Pachirisu can take a hit before pivoting out into a mon that can offensively handle the opponent better for free, while breaking a potential Focus Sash on mons like Kadabra. It lastly has Discharge for some STAB damage and the potential Paralysis on faster mons. Some other shout outs go to Thunder Wave, Light Screen, Magnet Rise (cuz why not), Rest, Sleep Talk, and Protect. It even gets some cool offensive moves like Gunk Shot, Grass Knot, Hidden Power, Quick Attack, and Seed Bomb, though I wouldn't particularly recommend those. Lastly, look at that face.

    Downs:
    It's extremely passive with its base 45 Attack and Special Attack, and can easily be taken advantage of by set up mons such as Rhydon and Muk. It gets competition from Ampharos, who takes hits generally better thanks to its much higher HP stat of 90. This is compared to Pachirisu's medicore base 60 HP, with no recovery outside of its Leftovers. It can therefore be easily widdled down, especially if Electabuzz has Toxic or Focus Blast. This makes it easy to revenge killed, if not straight up defeated by Electabuzz. As previously mentioned, Electric is a good defensive typing, but Ground is a fairly common form of coverage on mons like Relicanth, Metang, and Machoke, on top of the common Ground types like Rhydon, Gastrodon, and Marowak. Its abilities are completely useless, too, since it doesn't get its hidden ability, Volt Absorb, until Gen 5, which would have really benefited Pachirisu, giving it an immunity and another form HP recovery.

    Calculations (open)
    252 SpA Life Orb Electabuzz Thunderbolt vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Pachirisu: 63-75 (20.2 - 24.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 SpA Life Orb Electabuzz Psychic vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Pachirisu: 79-94 (25.4 - 30.2%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 SpA Life Orb Electabuzz Hidden Power Grass vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Pachirisu: 62-74 (19.9 - 23.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
    4 Atk Life Orb Electabuzz Cross Chop vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Pachirisu: 107-127 (33.1 - 39.3%) -- 13.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    4 Atk Life Orb Electabuzz Low Kick (20 BP) vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Pachirisu: 22-27 (7 - 8.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
    252 SpA Life Orb Electabuzz Focus Blast vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Pachirisu: 107-126 (34.4 - 40.5%) -- 48.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ SpA Poliwrath Surf vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Pachirisu: 88-105 (28.2 - 33.7%) -- 96.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ SpA Poliwrath Focus Blast vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Pachirisu: 111-132 (35.6 - 42.4%) -- 91.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    0 SpA Pelipper Surf vs. 200 HP / 252+ SpD Pachirisu: 69-82 (22.1 - 26.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
    0- Atk Pachirisu U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cacturne: 148-176 (52.6 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    Replay (open)
    I have one, I swear, but it's downloaded, rather than uploaded, and I have no idea how that stuff works. I blame Akir.


    Thanks to Akir and Chrisloud1 for help with the calculations and all that stuff! :D
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
  24. Chrisloud1

    Chrisloud1

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2016
    Messages:
    69
    Gen 4 > Gen 7

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Lead Rampardos

    Rampardos @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Earthquake

    Set explanation (open)

    Lead rampardos's set. Stone edge is there for stab, head smash breaks your sash and rampardos doesn't have sheer force in gen 4 so no point in using rock slide. Also hits armaldo and golbat leads super hard. Zen headbutt is there for poliwrath and machoke leads(1hkos machoke, around 70% to poliwrath). Earthquake hits every rock resist, also hitting electabuzz(without a chance to miss) and onix(you cant stop onix though). Adamant is preferred to always 1hko machoke and because you don't outspeed anything with jolly.

    Lead Matchups (open)

    Role: Anti lead
    Good against: Purugly, Lopunny, Sneasel, Armaldo, Machoke, Electabuzz, Furret
    Bad against: Poliwrath, Monferno, Glalie, Onix, Voltorb

    Relevant calcs (open)

    252+ Atk Rampardos Zen Headbutt vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 240-284 (65.7 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Rampardos Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Machoke: 306-362 (101.6 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Rampardos Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Armaldo: 308-366 (87 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Rampardos Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 164 Def Golbat: 468-552 (132.2 - 155.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    On a final note
    252+ Atk Rampardos Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Electabuzz: 500-590 (185.8 - 219.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Rampardos>Electabuzz, Eat that Plans
    Plans, LordST, Wenderz and 5 others like this.
  25. MiyoKa

    MiyoKa I'll give them shelter like you've done for me
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    PU Tour Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2015
    Messages:
    870
    heat squads outta here. no descriptions i am lazy. if i forgot to credit you or something tell me and i'll edit.

    DPP

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    v1 (open)

    Misdreavus @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split
    - Heal Bell
    - Shadow Ball

    Articuno @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Toxic
    - Roost
    - Ice Beam

    Armaldo @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Battle Armor
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake

    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Storm Drain
    EVs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 108 SpD / 8 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Toxic
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake
    - Recover

    Metang @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 248 Atk / 12 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Meteor Mash
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Toxic

    Regigigas @ Leftovers
    Ability: Slow Start
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Thunder Wave
    - Frustration
    - Earthquake

    v2 (open)

    Misdreavus @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split
    - Heal Bell
    - Shadow Ball

    Articuno @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Toxic
    - Roost
    - Ice Beam

    Armaldo @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Battle Armor
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake

    Poliwrath @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Surf
    - Toxic

    Metang @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 248 Atk / 12 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Meteor Mash
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Toxic

    Regigigas @ Leftovers
    Ability: Slow Start
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Thunder Wave
    - Frustration
    - Earthquake

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] co built with wenderz.
    Show Hide

    Sneasel @ Life Orb
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Ice Shard
    - Low Kick

    Regigigas @ Leftovers
    Ability: Slow Start
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Thunder Wave
    - Frustration
    - Earthquake

    Rapidash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Morning Sun
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Armaldo @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Battle Armor
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake

    Poliwrath @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Surf
    - Toxic

    Metang @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 248 Atk
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Meteor Mash
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Toxic

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] by wenderz
    Show Hide

    Armaldo @ Leftovers
    Ability: Battle Armor
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    Glaceon @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Ice Beam
    - Water Pulse
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Baton Pass

    Lickilicky @ Leftovers
    Ability: Own Tempo
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    Impish Nature
    - Protect
    - Wish
    - Body Slam
    - Power Whip

    Muk @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Sticky Hold
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Curse
    - Rest
    - Poison Jab
    - Sleep Talk

    Poliwrath @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Waterfall
    - Encore

    Rapidash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Morning Sun
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Flare Blitz
    - Frustration

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] by wenderz, edit from mine
    v1 (sucks) (open)

    Purugly @ Silk Scarf
    Ability: Thick Fat
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Frustration
    - Taunt
    - U-turn

    Articuno @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Toxic
    - Roost
    - Ice Beam

    Armaldo @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Battle Armor
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake

    Marowak @ Thick Club
    Ability: Rock Head
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Bonemerang
    - Stone Edge
    - Thunder Punch

    Poliwrath @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Surf
    - Psychic

    Muk @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Sticky Hold
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Curse
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Poison Jab

    v2 solid af (open)

    Purugly @ Silk Scarf
    Ability: Thick Fat
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Frustration
    - Taunt
    - U-turn

    Articuno @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Toxic
    - Roost
    - Ice Beam

    Armaldo @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Battle Armor
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake

    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Storm Drain
    EVs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 108 SpD / 8 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Toxic
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake
    - Recover

    Metang @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 248 Atk / 12 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Meteor Mash
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Pursuit

    Muk @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Sticky Hold
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Curse
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Poison Jab

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] by therealslap
    Show Hide

    Purugly @ Life Orb
    Ability: Thick Fat
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Frustration
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - U-turn

    Metang @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 248 Atk / 12 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Meteor Mash
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Pursuit

    Misdreavus @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split
    - Heal Bell
    - Shadow Ball

    Victreebel @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Leaf Blade
    - Frustration
    - Sucker Punch

    Poliwrath @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Vacuum Wave

    Rapidash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Frustration
    - Morning Sun

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    fun but sucks (open)

    Bronzor @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Reflect / Grass Knot
    - Rest

    Armaldo @ Leftovers
    Ability: Battle Armor
    EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 48 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Toxic
    - Rock Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin

    Rapidash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Flamethrower
    - Toxic
    - Substitute
    - Morning Sun

    Misdreavus @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split
    - Taunt
    - Shadow Ball

    Lickilicky @ Leftovers
    Ability: Oblivious
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Heal Bell

    Muk @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sticky Hold
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Poison Jab
    - Curse

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] some allstar build ig?
    Show Hide

    Kadabra @ Life Orb
    Ability: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 3 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Psychic

    Muk @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Sticky Hold
    EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Substitute
    - Poison Jab
    - Focus Punch
    - Shadow Sneak

    Gastrodon-East @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sticky Hold
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 108 SpD / 8 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Toxic
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake
    - Recover

    Bellossom @ Leftovers
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 248 HP / 40 SpA / 220 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Synthesis
    - Stun Spore
    - Leech Seed
    - Giga Drain

    Poliwrath @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 156 HP / 252 SpA / 100 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Surf
    - Focus Blast
    - Ice Beam
    - Vacuum Wave

    Electabuzz @ Life Orb
    Ability: Static
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] build from the workshop
    Show Hide

    Electabuzz @ Life Orb
    Ability: Static
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Low Kick
    - Toxic

    Dragonair @ Life Orb
    Ability: Shed Skin
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Extreme Speed
    - Aqua Tail

    Misdreavus @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunderbolt
    - Trick
    - Memento
    - Shadow Ball

    Pelipper @ Leftovers
    Ability: Keen Eye
    EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 124 Spe
    Bold Nature
    - Surf
    - Air Slash
    - Roost
    - U-turn

    Victreebel @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Leaf Blade
    - Sucker Punch
    - Swords Dance
    - Frustration

    Metang @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake
    - Bullet Punch

    ADV
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] by therealslap
    Show Hide

    Cubone @ Thick Club
    Ability: Rock Head
    EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Bonemerang
    - Rock Slide
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]
    - Swords Dance

    Grimer @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sticky Hold
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Curse
    - Sludge Bomb

    Lileep @ Leftovers
    Ability: Suction Cups
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Recover
    - Toxic
    - Mirror Coat

    Clamperl @ Deep Sea Tooth
    Ability: Shell Armor
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Dragonair @ Leftovers
    Ability: Shed Skin
    EVs: 36 HP / 44 Def / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Agility
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Delibird @ Choice Band
    Ability: Hustle
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Aerial Ace
    - Focus Punch
    - Quick Attack
    - Ice Beam

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Show Hide

    Marshtomp @ Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Surf
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    Duskull @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Night Shade
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Ivysaur @ Leftovers
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Leech Seed
    - Synthesis
    - Curse
    - Sludge Bomb

    Omanyte @ Leftovers
    Ability: Shell Armor
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Toxic
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf
    - Haze

    Dragonair @ Leftovers
    Ability: Shed Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Double-Edge

    Delibird @ Choice Band
    Ability: Hustle
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Aerial Ace
    - Rapid Spin
    - Quick Attack
    - Ice Beam

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] by byronthewellwell
    Show Hide

    Marshtomp (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Surf
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    Ivysaur @ Leftovers
    Ability: Overgrow
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Leech Seed
    - Toxic
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Synthesis

    Trapinch @ Choice Band
    Ability: Arena Trap
    EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Def / 40 SpD / 4 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Quick Attack
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]

    Yanma (F) @ Liechi Berry
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Substitute
    - Reversal
    - Toxic
    - Hidden Power [Flying]

    Delcatty @ Leftovers
    Ability: Cute Charm
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Wish
    - Calm Mind
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt

    Combusken @ Salac Berry
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Reversal
    - Swords Dance
    - Substitute
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] by byronthewellwell
    Show Hide

    Minun @ Leftovers
    Ability: Minus
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Protect
    - Wish
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Mightyena @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Sleep Talk
    - Toxic
    - Double-Edge
    - Rest

    Omanyte @ Leftovers
    Ability: Shell Armor
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Spikes
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Protect

    Delibird @ Choice Band
    Ability: Hustle
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Double-Edge
    - Quick Attack
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Rapid Spin

    Dragonair @ Leftovers
    Ability: Shed Skin
    EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Toxic
    - Rest
    - Double-Edge

    Sealeo @ Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Protect
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] by byronthewellwell
    Show Hide

    Minun @ Ganlon Berry
    Ability: Minus
    EVs: 240 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Agility
    - Baton Pass
    - Substitute
    - Defense Curl

    Aipom @ Leftovers
    Ability: Run Away
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Taunt
    - Baton Pass
    - Defense Curl
    - Protect

    Delcatty @ Ganlon Berry
    Ability: Cute Charm
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Calm Mind
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Baton Pass

    Gastly @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 220 HP / 252 SpA / 36 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Giga Drain
    - Thunderbolt
    - Psychic
    - Taunt

    Beedrill @ Apicot Berry
    Ability: Swarm
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Baton Pass
    - Swords Dance
    - Substitute
    - Sludge Bomb

    Ledian @ Apicot Berry
    Ability: Swarm
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Baton Pass
    - Substitute
    - Giga Drain
    - Light Screen

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Show Hide

    Marshtomp @ Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Relaxed Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Surf
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    Duskull @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Night Shade
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Ivysaur @ Leftovers
    Ability: Overgrow
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Leech Seed
    - Toxic
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Synthesis

    Trapinch @ Choice Band
    Ability: Arena Trap
    EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Def / 40 SpD / 4 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Quick Attack
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]

    Dragonair @ Leftovers
    Ability: Shed Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Double-Edge

    Yanma (F) @ Liechi Berry
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Substitute
    - Reversal
    - Toxic
    - Hidden Power [Flying]

    BW

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] by Many
    Show Hide

    Torterra @ Leftovers
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 248 HP / 132 Atk / 76 Def / 44 SpD / 8 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Wood Hammer
    - Earthquake
    - Synthesis
    - Stealth Rock

    Simipour @ Life Orb
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Grass Knot
    - Surf

    Beheeyem @ Leftovers
    Ability: Analytic
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Nasty Plot
    - Psychic
    - Signal Beam
    - Recover

    Monferno @ Eviolite
    Ability: Iron Fist
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Mach Punch
    - Flare Blitz

    Klang @ Eviolite
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Magnet Rise
    - Gear Grind
    - Shift Gear
    - Return

    Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Blizzard
    - Trick


    will add more as soon as it get approval from someone.

    tips and ideas for later. If u are stealing a team drop a like before please thanks.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017

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