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Resource PU Old Gens + Discussion

Discussion in 'PU' started by Akir, Mar 5, 2017.

  1. Akir

    Akir What's the Mystery Flavor?
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

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    Messages:
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    With Gen7 entering Beta, that means that ORAS is now an Oldgen! Mixed feelings aside, this does mean that all ORAS discussion can still continue and is encouraged to do so in this thread. Welcome to the thread ORAS!

    Viability Rankings

    Sample Teams

    Resource Thread
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  2. Akir

    Akir What's the Mystery Flavor?
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    564
    Gen4 PU VR Update!

    Now that the Classic is done, I am doing what I promised and updating the Gen4 VR to better reflect the current metagame. Here are the changes:

    Victreebel A+ to S
    Rhydon S to A+
    Electabuzz A to A+
    Misdreavus A to A+
    Golduck from A+ to A
    Kadabra from A+ to A
    Pelipper from B+ to A
    Metang A- to A
    Glalie A to A-
    Rapidash A to A-
    Articuno B to A-
    Mr. Mime B+ to A-
    Sableye A to A-
    Xatu B to A-
    Bellossom A to A-
    Relicanth A- to B+
    Dragonair B to B+
    Marowak from B to B+
    Murkrow from B- to B
    Tangela from B- to B
    Lopunny B+ to B
    Quagsire from B+ to B
    Politoed C+ to B-
    Voltorb added to C+
    Furret added to C

    "Boy Akir that sure is a lot!" It sure is! That is why this time I'm putting the reasoning down in hides.

    Why did that mon rise? (open)


    • Victreebel is in an incredibly good spot at the moment. The Swords Dance set is the best wallbreaker in the tier, and the Chlorophyll set is one of the best sweepers in the tier. Mixed is also surprisingly potent, and Choice Scarf is a good surprise set for some decent KOs. The main things going for Victreebel at the moment are its versatility and its splashability. Victreebel is one of the best sweepers and the best wallbreaker at the same time, and it's nearly impossible to tell which set it is until Victreebel reveals what it is...usually by setting up the set, which means you have to immediately react to it. Also considering the fact that both of the sets have completely different sets of checks/counters, that means that the best way to deal with Victreebel is to take a gamble as to what it is and pray that you guessed correctly. Combine all of that with the fact that Victreebel can be casually thrown on to a wide variety of teams and still produce results and you have a mon that is the most threatening thing in the tier. Deserving of S imo.
    • Usually in Gen4 PU, attackers are expected to either set up or have some form of utility in order to be popular. Electabuzz has neither, and it doesn't need to because of how difficult it is to deal with. There are very few mons that can reliably switch in on Electabuzz, and with good speed and good coverage Electabuzz is arguably the best AoA mon in the tier...only really rivaled by Purugly, who is also A+.
    • Misdreavus has a Nasty Plot set that is the best special wallbreaker in the tier, and a Scarf set that is both effective while still providing a ton of utility to a team. Nasty Plot has extremely few walls that can beat it, and I feel like that is enough to warrant it. The Choice Scarf set also has grown in popularity due to the sheer amount of utility it provides while still being a good revenge killer. Trick, Memento, a fast Will-o-Wisp, Destiny Bond...the list goes on. There is also the fact that Misdreavus is immune to Ground, which is a blessing in a tier where Rhydon and Spikes are particularly potent.
    • I waited for people to adjust to Pelipper, and some people did, but none of it was really effective enough to dissuade Pelipper from rising. A Water mon that also checks Waters with good coverage, recovery, and a fairly slow U-Turn makes Pelipper a great gluemon for a lot of teams.
    • Metang is one of the more reliable tanks at the moment, being able to set Stealth Rocks and have ok bulk to take a few hits while doing it. Metang also has good power and coverage to remain an offensive threat at the same time. What really sells Metang, however, is the Steel typing. With this, Metang has a huge amount of resistances such as Normal, Psychic, an immunity to Poison, and so on that lets it checks huge threats like Muk, Mr. Mime, and Purugly. All of these things means that Metang is an easy mon to throw on a team. Provides Stealth Rocks while also being bulky enough to be reliable and having enough offensive prowess to pull its weight.
    • Articuno is a very potent mon at the present stage of the metagame. Articuno is absurdly bulky with offensive stats to match. In fact, Articuno's stats are so solid that the Subroost set is a good wincon just because it is so difficult to dislodge at times. I did consider putting Articuno in A, however its splashability was what ultimately stopped me. In order to get the most out of Articuno, you basically have to base your team around it. Of course the weakness to Stealth Rocks is also a huge factor. Doesn't matter how bulky you are if you lose 50% of your health every time you come in.
    • Mr. Mime is a Psychic mon, and Psychic is an incredibly good offensive type in the metagame. Lack of Dark and Steel mons means that Psychic is an easy attack to lock into for the Choice Scarf set, and Mime also has Focus Blast to deal with coverage. Mime also gets Healing Wish to heal back up a lot of the bulky threats in the tier for your team and Trick to cripple opposing walls, so there is plenty of utility options too. Nasty Plot and AoA are also very good sets.
    • Xatu is in a similar boat to Mime: Psychic is good, and Xatu is Psychic. Xatu does have several assets that seperate it from Mime though, most notably Heat Wave and U-Turn. Xatu can therefore run a good Choice Scarf set, but with Roost Xatu can also run a good CM set as well. A versatile mon that is effective in what it does.
    • Dragonair is extremely scary once it is set up. Realistically the only reliable switchin is Metang, but at +2 even Metang can be iffy. With 1 Dragon Dance, Dragonair hits like a truck with Outrage, which is nearly unresisted in the tier, and has Aqua Tail to hit some of the more physically bulky mons like Rhydon and Metang. Combine that with Extremespeed to bop Scarf mons, and you have a solid wincon. The only downside to Dragonair is that ideally you need 2 Dragon Dances in order to win, and that can be a lot to ask. In fact, 1 Dragon Dance can be difficult to get. Dragonair is not bulky, and without any dances it is also weak.
    • Politoed is a reliable Water check. It has Encore and Perish Song too, so it has decent utility while still being decently powerful. Decent mon.


    Why did that mon drop? (open)

    • Way to go Rhydon, you finally did it. The metagame is based heavily around beating Rhydon at the moment. If you can creep Rhydon, you do. If you can lure Rhydon, you do. Every team has a switchin specifically for Rhydon. There are a lot of arguments to be made that the fact that Rhydon has this much of an impact means that it is S, but that would assume that Rhydon is still effective. Rhydon is just not as effective as it once was, and a lot of people are moving on to other Stealth Rocks mons. Definitely still prepare for Rhydon though, as we prepare so much for a reason.
    • It says a lot that Golduck is one of the best counters to Sun, to the point where I push it constantly, and a strong scarf mon AND a good wallbreaker with SubCM and it is still rarely used. The reason? It's actually pretty hard to put on a team. Golduck is not very splashable and doesn't provide much utility beyond what it uses itself. Because of this, most people prefer other scarfers or other wallbreakers. Still a great mon, but not quite as good as the new A+.
    • Kadabra still hits like a truck, but its bulk is just too much of a burden to overcome. Kadabra is also a special wallbreaker that fails to break many special walls, like Lickilicky. It can push through with Encore, but then you don't have Substitute to help with the offense matchup. If Kadabra had 5 moveslots it would be better, but for now it just is not as effective as the other A+ mons.
    • People prefer using Cacturne over Glalie. Because of the meta favoring the Cactus a lot at the moment, people would rather go with that over Glalie. More cactus = less reason to have a dedicated lead to Spikes. Outclassed as a Spikes setter, but still a great lead.
    • Fire is just not that great of a type in Gen4 PU, so the fact that Rapidash even gets to A- says a lot about it. What it really comes down to is that Rapidash struggles to beat a lot of very common mons like Poliwrath and Pelipper, so the metagame does not favor poor Rapidash at all at the moment. The utlity is still really nice, and so is the speed, but Rapidash just is not as effective as it has been.
    • Sableye is still a very good mon, but the metagame currently does not favor what Sableye provides. Sableye does have really good resists and immunities, but Sableye is so borderline to being bulky that a good number of neutral hits can 2HKO Sableye no problem. What's left is a mon that relies on resists that are just not in high demand at the moment.
    • Bellossom has fallen far, but that's just how it goes. Bellossom does not really check any Waters anymore, at least not reliably, and there are other gluemons that can provide similar support better. There is also the fact that Bellossom is not very strong in on itself, so you are left with a mon that is a momentum sink that only provides okay support.
    • Relicanth is a bulky mon that has no recovery. So while Relicanth's resists to Normal and Flying are appreciated, Relicanth just hates chip damage so much. Relicanth does have some really cool calcs going for it, like how LO Rhydon can 3HKO, but that requires Relicanth to not have any chip damage at all. Would be better if it had some recovery...then it would probably be one of the best mons in the tier. Rock Polish is also a difficult sweep to pull off, since it is stopped by mons like Poliwrath and Gastrodon and those mons are only on every team.
    • Why use Lopunny when you can use Purugly? Encore is neat and so is Jump Kick, but not breaking the 105 benchmark and being fairly weak means that Lopunny cannot escape Purugly's shadow.


    You added mons? (open)

    • Voltorb is the best lead Rain has, so I placed it with Onix. Voltorb is very fast for a lead too, so the Taunt + RD + Explosion is a very good start to a match. The only thing keeping Voltorb from being higher is how Rain is just not that great.
    • Furret is a cool lead with some calcs going for it. Good speed and ok enough power means that Furret works as a pretty good Antilead that also has U-Turn.
    • Actually just click this so Chrisloud can explain these mons.


    edit: forgot to mention that Murkrow, Marowak, Tangela, and Quagsire also moved around

    I don't expect to touch this for a while, but going into the future I do want to see more discussion over Roselia. I've been thinking a lot about the mon, but I want more opinions.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
    Deku Prince, galbia, tenkai and 13 others like this.
  3. Broken Phobias

    Broken Phobias

    Joined:
    May 25, 2015
    Messages:
    468
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Well since PUPL is never happening at this point I just figured I'd drop one of my favorite ORAS teams that basically carried me through countless tournaments and wins on the ladder.​

    importable (open)

    Cacturne (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    - Sucker Punch
    - Superpower
    - Dark Pulse
    - Giga Drain

    Stoutland (M) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Scrappy
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Facade
    - Return
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    Floatzel @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf

    Prinplup @ Eviolite
    Ability: Torrent
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    - Defog
    - Stealth Rock
    - Scald
    - Toxic

    Golem (M) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Sturdy
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Sucker Punch
    - Explosion

    Zebstrika (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sap Sipper
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Overheat
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
  4. pancake

    pancake up jumped spring time
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2014
    Messages:
    1,264
    hey top 1 old gens pu player here to post some teams from classic (people already forgot about this but I didn't!). This tour took place during an extremely busy and stressful time in my life, yet I still managed to be a finalist and I think if I had been less stressed out I definitely could've won. Unfortunately things didn't work out that way but I just wanted to congratulate miyoka for winning and thank some people for helping me out along the way.

    Slowbroth, Megazard, amberlamps - i was stressed out and couldn't build. you guys came throw with adv and bw teams respectively. i can't thank you guys enough. :))) you guys have also been super supportive throughout my time in pu, especially zard because my tutor, and just really great people and friends lol
    Akir, TJ, Chrisloud, Jungle Fox, GeneralAnnoyance, HJAD, iRebel, Specs Jigg, Shuckle, LST, skitty - many of you tested or helped build, and many of you are also great friends. love you guys and thank you so much!!! <3
    s/o everyone that i forgot
    s/o everyone else
    fuck dundies

    since DPP is really my thing dropping some teams that I think could be considered samples! actually just kidding the first one and the second one i guess if you delete kushalos' but not the third one lol

    upload_2017-8-28_20-18-55.png upload_2017-8-28_20-19-7.png upload_2017-8-28_20-19-19.png upload_2017-8-28_20-19-31.png upload_2017-8-28_20-19-50.png upload_2017-8-28_20-19-59.png

    Sneasel Balance by pancake and Akir (open)
    Poliwrath @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 156 HP / 252 SpA / 100 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Focus Blast
    - Vacuum Wave

    Sneasel @ Life Orb
    Ability: Inner Focus
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Ice Shard
    - Frustration

    Muk @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Stench
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Poison Jab
    - Curse

    Rapidash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Morning Sun

    Metang @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 244 HP / 248 Atk / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Meteor Mash
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Earthquake

    Misdreavus @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Shadow Ball
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Trick
    - Thunderbolt


    description (open)
    This team which I made with Akir i feel like is my most successful and reliable team so I feel like it should be added to samples. Not much innovation here just a very solid team that covers a lot of the metagame and won many games throughout the classic. If you want to add this to samples akir i'll write a formal description for it but lol


    upload_2017-8-28_20-38-38.png upload_2017-8-28_20-38-50.png upload_2017-8-28_20-39-4.png upload_2017-8-28_20-39-13.png upload_2017-8-28_20-39-20.png upload_2017-8-28_20-39-28.png

    DRAGONAIR HO by pancake repost (open)

    Machoke @ Lum Berry
    Ability: No Guard
    EVs: 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Dynamic Punch
    - Payback
    - Protect
    - Bullet Punch

    Dragonair @ Life Orb
    Ability: Shed Skin
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Extreme Speed
    - Aqua Tail

    Cacturne @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Dark Pulse
    - Energy Ball
    - Sucker Punch
    - Spikes

    Rhydon @ Babiri Berry
    Ability: Lightning Rod
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Rock Polish

    Poliwrath @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 156 Atk / 100 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Waterfall
    - Encore

    Electabuzz @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Static
    Happiness: 0
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Low Kick
    - Psychic


    description (open)
    I already posted this team but it's still the goat team but it's very similar to kushalos' sample (we came up with the same idea at the same time) so it shouldn't be a sample prolly. Anyway Dragonair + SubEncore Poliwrath have been talken about already, one of my most reliable teams still despite the meta's changing.


    upload_2017-8-28_20-39-45.png upload_2017-8-28_20-39-57.png upload_2017-8-28_20-40-4.png upload_2017-8-28_20-40-15.png upload_2017-8-28_20-40-22.png upload_2017-8-28_20-40-28.png

    CurseTect Muk Balance by pancake (open)

    Poliwrath @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 148 HP / 252 SpA / 108 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Surf
    - Vacuum Wave
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Focus Blast

    Muk @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sticky Hold
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Curse
    - Poison Jab
    - Brick Break / Ice Punch
    - Protect

    Golduck @ Life Orb
    Ability: Cloud Nine
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Calm Mind
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic

    Cacturne @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Spikes
    - Dark Pulse
    - Energy Ball
    - Synthesis

    Metang @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 244 Atk / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Meteor Mash
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Pursuit

    Mr. Mime @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Filter
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
    - Psychic
    - Signal Beam
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Healing Wish


    description (open)
    wow innovation from a very not innovative person lol. CurseTect Muk is super fun and cool and balances a lot of the pros of CroMuk with the benefits of Offensive Curse Muk and is amazing in a metagame dominated by Victreebel because it allows you to scout its set or waste a sun turn while still retaining an offensive presence. Unfortunately this set did not get used but it is very cool. CM Golduck is also very antimeta right now, people who use poliwrath as their water resist just click x lol. I don't think this should be a sample because it isn't as reliable as the Sneasel team from earlier but it is fun.


    saving the rest for pupl, see you then :^)
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
  5. Slowbroth

    Slowbroth

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2016
    Messages:
    161
    ANNOUNCEMENT:

    BATON PASS WILL NOW BE LIMITED TO ONE POKEMON PER TEAM IN ADV PU


    REASONING:

    Similar to DPP PU, ADV PU will be implementing the Baton Pass Clause, where each team cannot have more than one Pokemon with the move Baton Pass. In addtion, passing boosts is still allowed except the Pokemon that can use Baton Pass cannot pass speed boosts (i.e. Agility or Salac Berry) in conjunction with another stat (i.e. Attack or Special Attack). As PUPL approaches, it was necessary to enforce a restriction on "Baton Pass chain" teams in ADV PU to make matches more competitive in general as these teams are not only heavily matchup based usually in their favor, but also because of the fact that there is a strict lack of sufficient counterplay to it in the tier, as Roar Mightyena and other niche phazers or answers are essentially the only surefire stops to teams of those archetypes. Pokemon such as Aipom, Minun, Delcatty, Beedrill and Ledian are highly effective Baton Passers in chained teams; Aipom and Minun are able to pass defense or speed boosts, Delcatty capable of passing Calm Mind boosts and Beedrill and Ledian capable of passing Swords Dance boosts. When utilized together on the same team, once one of members were able to set up, it became easier and easier to set up more boosts until the boosts were finally passed to an offensive Pokemon to abuse and sweep. In essence, if a team did not have one of the few answers to Baton Pass chain teams, it was pretty much game over. By limiting Baton Pass to only be used on one Pokemon per team, teams can still utilize Baton Pass for keeping up momentum, as "dry passing" is not broken in any way, as well as being able to pass boosts in a more restrained fashion, which also is not overly broken.

    This clause will take effect immediately for all games in ADV PU from here on out.
    ggggd, tenkai, Tuthur1 and 10 others like this.
  6. Aaronboyer

    Aaronboyer

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2014
    Messages:
    273
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]/[​IMG]
    A Fresh Start(er): Balance Offense (3 Different Starters with 3 Different Types from 3 Different Generations)

    Having not played since the Dunsparce ban, I just recently got back into playing ADV PU again. Even though the metagame had only lost one Pokemon, the tier had changed so much since Pre-Sparce. Wanting to start playing ADV again, but not knowing where exactly to start, I decided to take my previous Yanma Offense team and update it.

    I decided to keep Minun, Yanma, Dragonair, and Marshtomp. Minun is still, in my opinion, the best lead in the ADV PU metagame. It outspeeds all common leads besides opposing Minun (whom you just Toxic unless you lose the speed tie and they sub), and it forces the opponent to hard switch in their Ivysaur or their Dragonair. Yanma and Dragonair are two of the best offensive Pokemon in the tier, with each being able to clean late game with their SubReversal and Dragon Dance sets respectfully. Marshtomp was my Dragonair check and Physical Wall. You may wonder why I have Marshtomp and Omanyte slashed. Truth is this team had a hard matchup vs Normal Spam teams, and Omanyte can check Doduo, Aipom, and Yanma better than Marshtomp could while setting up Spikes in the process. Running Omanyte does make this team more susceptible to Agility +3 Attacks Dragonair.

    Lastly, I've added Ivysaur and Quilava. Previously I had Dunsparce and Combusken, but the former is now banned and the latter has lost some viability because of the former's ban. CroSaur is my favorite Pokemon on the team, being an Electric resist, a Water resist, a Grass resist, a pivot, and a win condition all in one. Quilava patches up holes for the team, including being a Fire-type switch in, and either a secondary priority user or a phazer.

    Team Importable w/ Marshtomp: http://pokepast.es/a87c3a54386ae7bd
    Team Importable w/ Omanyte: http://pokepast.es/f3744255bbe36c7a

    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
    EviGaro, Solar Flare, Akir and 5 others like this.
  7. cabforpitt

    cabforpitt

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    42
    With the Arena Trap ban in ORAS OU, is it now also illegal on Trapinch? Generally transitivity would mean that it would be, but I'm curious since afaik pinch was never really a problem mon.
  8. InfernoMonferno

    InfernoMonferno

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    112
    Oras pu is unaffected, like baton pass
  9. Akir

    Akir What's the Mystery Flavor?
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2014
    Messages:
    564
    Gen5 PU is the RoA Spotlight Ladder for November!



    Aaronboyer if i see your sun team everywhere on the ladder im gonna be mad
  10. Bassie!

    Bassie!

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Messages:
    18
    I think i am missing Drifblim in the viability rankings of BW PU. Is it banned or something?

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