Metagame PU Tiering

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#1
tldr: At the beginning of PU, everything that is potentially broken is banned by a council. Then, each banned element is reintroduced to the tier one at a time, and the PU council votes on whether each suspect should be kept in PU or remain BL4.

The PU Tiering Method
also known as the kokoloko Method

Process
As with every tier, tiering begins with the beta stage. At the very beginning of PU Beta, the most blatantly overpowered elements of PU are quickbanned by the forum moderators.

At the same time, the PU council will be formed by players who are active in posting as well as in playing. These council members will then take part in a vote along with the moderators where anything seen to be broken or at least quite controversial is nominated by council members and then voted on at the end of the week. Anything that is then voted ban with 60% support or more will be moved into BL4. This process will repeat every week and by the end of Beta we should have a playable metagame with the most glaring centralising forces removed. After some time, the tier leaders will begin to introduce banned Pokemon into the tier one at a time, each receiving its own ladder. All discussion will be open to the public. Once a good amount of time and discussion has passed, a vote will happen with members of the council where the Pokemon can be voted on to be unbanned. A supermajority of 67% or more will once again be used here in order for a Pokemon to be moved from BL4 back down to PU.

Tiering will take a more traditional approach once this phase is over with open suspect tests and the like.

The Aim
We believe this process is the best as it allows the tier to become playable as soon as possible in order to keep the tier competitive, diverse, and fun to play. This process has been used many times before, both in current SM UnderUsed as well as in XY UnderUsed, where it was pioneered by Kokoloko.

PU Council
To start with, the council will consist of the three forum moderators + a couple of other users chosen and trusted by the moderators. High levels of activity are required to be on the council so the council can well be considered to be rotating.
The members will be chosen from people who actively play, post in the metagame thread and discuss topics in the live chats both on PS and Discord. It also helps to be a good and respectable member of the community.
If you wish to be a part of the rotating council feel free to pm one of the Tier Leaders and ask what needs to be done, how you are progressing towards it.

also shoutouts to NU for already writing up a large portion of this for me to steal
 
#3
First SM PU Beta Council Vote

The Council voted on 7 Pokemon. More than 60% was needed to ban each Pokemon and that amounts to 5/7 ban votes.


Musharna: 4 BL4, 3 PU | PU
Gallade:
7 BL4 | BL4
Vivillon:
7 BL4 | BL4
Barbaracle:
3 BL4, 4 PU | PU
Klinklang:
6 BL4, 1 PU | BL4
Absol:
2 BL4, 5 PU | PU
Lilligant:
1 BL4, 6 PU | PU

As a result, Gallade, Vivillon and Klinklang are now banned from PU. The Immortal thanks a lot if you could implement it on the server


Gallade's reasoning:
galbia said:
Gallade, much like Sawk, in my opinion proved to be too good of a wallbreaker for the current PU tier. It has coverage to 2HKO pretty much everything with a Choice Band set and decent sweeping potential with Swords Dance + Z-Hypnosis sets. Outside of those sets Gallade is still incredibly versatile and has potential to run other items and moves (such as life orb or bulk up sets) to get around some of its checks
akir said:
The main issue I have with Gallade is the strain it puts on team's ability to field Fighting checks due to its power and coverage. Normally mons like Weezing should work fine, but Gallade can deal with a lot of Fighting checks just fine. This limits the number of Fighting checks to only a small, exploitable handful. Combine that with the fact that Gallade decimates the entire playstyle of balance and I personally believe that this is enough reason to ban Gallade, especially if we lose Musharna too.
megazard said:
Speaking of few checks, the ability to beat down the entire metagame at +2 when it's really easy to get an SD, run diverse sets to break past any would be counters, and pretty much always get at least a kill a game has made this the most ridiculous mon in beta.
anty said:
Gallade is very similar to Sawk in terms of raw power and excellent coverage, but it trades a worse ability for Swords Dance, allowing it to easily break few teams lacking a few checks, and a usable special defense. With gallade in the tier bulkier playstyles can never fully evolve as they become very restricted, so banning it would be much more beneficial to the metagame
teddeh said:
Power, versatility, movepool, ability, z-move, best mon in the tier by far with fuck all switch ins.
2xthetap said:
Gallade doesn't have enough defensive counterplay in the current meta to be considered a healthy presence, with Lum or Psychium Z sets allowing it to break past possible defensive answers, like Sableye and Granbull (with Lum beating Sableye and a boosted Shattered Psyche taking out Granbull with very little prior damage). What's more, its high degree of versatility allows it to run other sets like SubBU, which grant it temporary protection to status, as well as make it more difficult to revenge kill at the same time. While its middling speed allows it be checked easily enough, most physically defensive walls struggle to avoid being 2HKOed, Quagsire and Pyukumuku being notable examples that need to avoid even light chip damage in order to stand up to Gallade. It is therefore too strong for the tier and needs to go.
hjad said:
Gallade single handedly eliminates the notion of using a successful balance or stall team. It's plethora of coverage moves and support moves as well as the advent of Z-Moves turned traditional checks such as Sableye and Granbull as just another thing that it can outspeed and snap in half. It can be checked offensively, but that needs a very specific support structure, and in many cases this makes Gallade easier to deal with for offensively oriented teams, and may also seem easier to deal with than some of the other threats since the likelyhood it 6-0s is much less than almost anything on the list. However, it guranteed a kill Vs balance without choice, and the inviability of stall due to the pressure it exudes on the teambuilding on these playstyles.

Vivillon's reasoning:
galbia said:
The combination of accurate Sleep Powder+ Quiver Dance makes Viv too good of a sweeper for the tier especially considering its main stab is supereffective against the grass types that are used to sponge sleep moves and the very accurate and strong hurricanes that ohko most neutral targets at +1. access to energy ball is also helpful to get past rock-types and can chip and eventually let it take out Lanturn. it has some answers but definitely not enough.
akir said:
Vivillon's 98% accurate sleeping move means that one of your mons is almost always going to be disabled, and also means that Vivillon almost always gets a free turn to set up. After a Quiver Dance, Vivillon is difficult to deal with, since a Z Hurricane can actually KO a massive amount of would-be counters. The best way to deal with Vivillon is to either play perfectly around it every time it comes out, or just apply a huge amount of pressure that a lot of teams just can't do.
megazard said:
The metagame of stopping Vivillon involves sacking something and going to a scarfer that can beat it at +1. There's the chance to win a 50/50 if you have a Sleep immunity that can threaten it in a 1v1 scenario, but that's really about it. It may not sweep all the time, but this thing is never anything less than terrifying unless you decide to run the one incredibly niche full stop.
anty said:
Vivillon may appear to be fairly alright to check, between its low bulk and srock weakness, however I think QD paired with Sleep Powder and STAB Hurricane is too much for the tier. What would be traditional defensive checks are almost all vulnerable to Sleep whereas sleep immune mons cannot take a hurricane which provides vivillon with set up opportunities. Furthermore, a lot of its defensive checks lack recovery and cannot take a +1 SSSS, while offensive checks like scarfers cant RK if viv manages to get a second QD with good sleep roles
teddeh said:
89 speed + spore (basically) and quiver / z-move hurricanes make it hard to revenge kill and check. Would be willing to re-test later though.
2xthetap said:
Vivillon is a more borderline case, as it can be pressured or forced out by many options like sleep immune Pokemon with SE coverage for Vivillon (Magmortar, Electivire), super effective priority (Piloswine's Ice Shard or Lycanroc's Accelerock), priority utility (Liepard's Encore), and by its x4 weakness to SR. However, part of what makes it bannable is ultimately how easy its setup process is and the idea that every team right now needs a sufficient answer for a Vivillon that has already setup, so it can be fairly restrictive in this regard. It starts most encounters with its opponent crippled by a 97.5% accurate Sleep Powder and a Quiver Dance under its belt; other factors that push it over the edge in my mind include it being able to afford coverage for standard flying resists that may switch into its very spammable, highly accurate Hurricanes, and the idea it can use Supersonic Skystrike to blow past specially defensive walls. While it isn't unbeatable, all of these factors point to it being an unhealthy presence in the current meta.
hjad said:
I was skeptical about this Pokémon originally, however, after playing more and more Vs it, it definitely has occured to me that this Pokémon is not healthy. It can create it's own Quiver Dancer Fodder using Sleep Powder, with Z-Hurricane + Energy Ball reducing the amount of checks to only a few answers. Not to mention, if you do find a moment where you can quiver for free, potentially on a choice locked Pokémon. You can sleep powder any checks and have potentially 3 cracks at breaking that Pokémon and initiating a sweep or successful team break. It's ability to boost both speed and power is threatening, with appropriate checks being limited to Oricorio Pom-pom with safety goggles, which both limits true teambuilding creativity, as well as counterplay which is limited to rocks and priority that it doesn't resist.

Klinklang's reasoning:
galbia said:
Steel-typing + good bulk gives this too many setup opportunities and not enough revenge killers. its checks bar like quagsire dont have reliable recovery and offense really doesnt have much for it
akir said:
Klinklang's bulk and good typing means that its splashable on a huge variety of teams and setting up is extremely easy with a huge payoff. After 1 Shift Gear, Klinklang outspeeds the entire tier easily and can shred offensive teams as a result. Defensive teams can also be too passive to stop Klinklang behind a Substitute and are forced to over-rely on the 2 widely-considered counters of Stunfisk and Quagsire. A lategame Klinklang can beat just about every team, and the sheer threat of a potential setup forces you to play extremely carefully just to cover one mon...if you can deal with it at all.
megazard said:
This mon creates two scenarios: either you're running Quagsire (or a couple of other mons depending on which set it's running which you often won't know until it's too late) and it's not a huge deal, or you aren't running Quagsire and your counterplay is hoping they're the wrong set and/or making sure a Steel type with solid bulk commonly seen with Substitute never gets the chance to set up. Counterplay to this Pokemon is ridiculously limited and the main reason it seems so few complaints is simply low usage, and not a lack of effectiveness.
anty said:
Klinklang can find many set up opportunities with substitute, its good typing and reasonable bulk on good pokemon like Musharna, Togetic, and weezing. From there Shift Gear makes it faster than any (viable) choice scarf user, which means you have to check it defensively or with priority, the latter being unreliable as it can even tank mach punches while healthy. Steelium-z really pushes it over the top allowing to break past would be defensive checks like Gurdurr, Torterra, and Lanturn if they have been slightly weakened, forcing the opponent into a 50/50 to predict the z-move, or a loss if entry hazards are up.
teddeh said:
After facing klinklang a lot, with access to its z-moves at the moment and sheer bulk / typing, it is one of the harder setup sweepers to stop and without a pokemon like seismitoad or steelix in the tier (unlike NU), it's got very little reliable checks that aren't worn down or momentum drains, the exception being poliwrath, which doesn't fit on every archetype. I would prefer banning kk and re-testing at a later date.
hjad said:
This Pokémon finds it very simple to find settup fodder thanks to its great bulk as well as great typing. A Shift Gear allows it to outspeed the entire Scarfed Meta with bulk to spare. Offensive counterplay to a Normalium-Z set and Steelium-Z set is non existent, since Z-moves allow it to break anything that that's not Steel, of which only a few Pokémon actually exist in PU, limiting both counterplay and teambuilding creativity.
If you want in-depth reasoning for why something didnt get banned feel free to ask and we will provide a paragraph about it.
Please remember that stuff will be revisited in the future.

Voting record:
Musharna:
BL4:
Akir, Megazard, Anty, HJAD
PU: galbia, Teddeh, 2xthetap

Gallade:

BL4:
galbia, akir, megazard, anty, teddeh, 2xthetap, hjad
PU:

Vivillon:
BL4:
galbia, akir, megazard, anty, teddeh, 2xthetap, hjad
PU:

Babaracle:
BL4:
akir, teddeh, hjad
PU: galbia, megazard, anty, 2xthetap

Klinklang:

BL4:
galbia, akir, megazard, anty, teddeh, hjad
PU: 2xthetap

Absol:

BL4:
akir, teddeh
PU: galbia, megazard, anty, 2xthetap, hjad

Lilligant:

BL4:
hjad
PU: galbia, akir, megazard, anty, teddeh, 2xthetap
 

Anty

i don't know why i say the things i say
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
#4
Second SM PU Beta Council Vote

The Council voted on 7 Pokemon. More than 60% was needed to ban each Pokemon and that amounts to 5/7 ban votes.



As a result, Hariyama, Samurott and Barbaracle are now banned from PU.


Hariyama's reasoning:
Guts Hariyama has unequivilent wallbreaking power due to its pure strength and potential coverage. Not only can it run moves like Bulk Up or Heavy Slam to break through certain would be checks like Sableye, Palosand, and even Gourgeist-XL with chip, but what separates it from other wallbreakers is that it has less need to predict. Facade on its own is extremely spammable, and paired with a STAB Close Combat makes it extremely difficult to switch into if not running one of three bulky Ghost-types, of which one lacks recovery (Golurk) and another isn't particularly good (Palosand). Hariyama also does not have to rely on a choice item unlike other breakers, and Burn generally cripples less than Life Orb. Lastly a healthy Hariyama is very hard to OHKO due to its good bulk, and having access to priority means it has a fair matchup vs offensive teams.


Samurott's reasoning:

Both Samurott's main sets are amazing in their own right, and together they make Samurott unpredictable and extremely dangerous. The Swords Dance set is very difficult to check both offensively and defensively, as there aren't many faster Water resists, most of which are fairly frail, and Water and Bug coverage hits everything but Altaria and Poliwrath. Savage Spin Out can help it get past defensive Pokemon like Gastrodon and Ferroseed, whereas Lum Berry can provide set up oppurtunities on Pokemon like (weakened) Weezing. Special wallbreaking work well by 2HKOing pretty much every physical check, aside from Ferroseed, and in general is very hard for bulkier teams to switch into, with common checks like Lanturn and AV Hariyama lacking recovery.


Barbaracle's reasoning:

Shell Smash Barbaracle is possible the hardest set up sweeper to handle defensively due to the possibility of it running one of three viable Z-moves (Rockium, Fightinium and Grassium) which can break past would be checks like Gourgeist, Ferroseed, and Quagsire. Furthermore its high Speed makes Tauros the only viable faster Choice Scarf users meaning teams mostly have to try to revenge kill it with priority and/or stop it from setting up. However, with good support such as dual Screens, Memento, and Aurora Veil, these potential stopped can be nullified, or require the sacking of multiple Pokemon to take it down.
 
#5
Third SM PU Beta Council Vote

Taskr and RawMelon joined the council in voting for this round, thanks a lot guys. 6 Ban votes were needed to ban a Pokemon



As a result Tauros and Vanilluxe (which is a Pokemon name Anty can't spell so he will be happy) are now banned! The Immortal thanks a lot if you could implement this on the server


Tauros's reasoning:

Tauros has the ability to outspeed the vast majority of the tier while having the strength to comfortably KO most offensive Pokemon with very little chip, and deal heavy damage to defensive Pokemon. Its excellent coverage allows it to take out the best normal resists such as Fire Blast to 2HKO Ferroseed and Gourgeist-XL, and Iron Tail 2HKO's Regirock, Golurk, and Cradily, whereas its solid bulk means that it comfortably takes priority and can even take hits from Choice Scarf users while healthy. Ultimately, Tauros lacks good enough offensive and defensive counterplay to be healthy in PU.


Vanilluxe's reasoning:

Vanniluxe's Blizzard is easily one of the most spammable moves in the tier due to its high Special Attack along with Ice's excellent offensive typing and Blizzards high BP. Furthermore access to Freeze-dry allows Vanniluxe to take out Water-types like Lanturn, which are many teams primary Ice type switch ins. Fire and Steel types (along with some Thick Fat Pokemon) which resist Freeze Dry mostly lack recovery, like AV Magmortar and Probopass, get dented by Flash Cannon or Hidden Power Ground, like Piloswine, or can be severely weakened by Pursuit, like Bronzor. Overall Vanniluxe is a fierce wallbreaker which lacks many reliable switch ins, and doesn't require much skill to use due to STAB 100% accurate Blizzard.
 

Attachments

#6
Medicham has been quickbanned from PU.

Despite the presence of a couple of apparently decent counters in the tier, namely Sableye and Musharna, the PU Council still thinks Medicham puts too much pressure on PU teams. Its powerful Pure Power-boosted STAB moves are able to 2HKO pretty much any physical wall that doesn't resist them with little prior damage, especially considering Skuntank can dispose of pretty much any Psychic and Ghost-type with Pursuit.
The decent speed tier to run Choice Scarf and access to Fake Out + Bullet Punch also makes it useful in matchups against offense, especially with the aforementioned Pursuit support. The incoming start of the PUPL also made the council think this was the best idea for the tier in the short term.

The Immortal
 

Anty

i don't know why i say the things i say
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
#7
Charizard Council Vote

Dibs The Dreamer , Taskr and RawMelon joined the council in voting for this round, thanks a lot guys. 6 Ban votes were needed to ban it (60%):

Charizard: 9 BL4, 1 PU | BL4
Bl4: Anty, galbia, Megazard, HJAD, Teddeh, 2xTheTap, Akir, Taskr, Dibs The Dreamer
PU: Rawmelon

Charizard is banned from the PU Tier


Reasoning:
Charizard had a large number of viable sets, however a combination of its Dragon Dance set and more notably its Z-Celebrate set made it banworthy. In addition to having near perfect neutral coverage in just 2 moves and a strong boosted special attack stat, Z-celebrate Charizard was notable for its very good boosted bulk, which in combination with Roost made it much harder to check. Charizard would become almost impossible to revenge kill with priority and most choice scarf users, as even Lycanroc's Accelerock failed to OHKO, meaning teams where forced to rely on more defensive switch ins such as Lanturn, Gastrodon, and Chople Berry Regirock. This was severely restrictive to the metagame as offensive teams found it hard to fit most of its checks on, and bulkier teams also like to rely on offensive checks in addition to defensive ones. Its other sets make this worse, as Dragon Dance can break through checks such as Lanturn and Guzzlord, while Z-sunny day (though generally inferior to celebrate) can break Gastrodon and Lanturn eventually. Overall Charizard had a very negative impact to the metagame so was banned by the PU Council
 
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