ORAS OU puppet theatre

(play this while you read, it'll get you in the right mood)

Hey everyone! This is a team I made a while back. I wanted to build around specially defensive Excadrill because I was sick of losing to Clefable; M-Sableye has nice synergy with Drill, so I added that, and then some more stuff to cover threats:



Unfortunately this was bad because no Ground switch-in, no Bisharp counter with Rocks up, no Scald switch-in, etc. At this point I went mad with innovation and tried replacing Ferrothorn with physically defensive Aromatherapy Shaymin, physically defensive Roserade, and all kinds of other fun stuff. At some point I found myself using Wish Exeggutor and realised I was scraping the bottom of the barrel. Also I heard people describing my team as a 'heatah fajita' squad and I knew that anything that sounded so Mexican couldn't be any good. One retrospectively obvious change later and I had the final members of the team:



In terms of results, because people like hearing about them, I laddered my random testing alt to a peak of 1861, good for #11, winning one room tour and losing embarrassingly to xtrashine in the other one I tried because my Sableye didn't have Toxic. A couple of people borrowed the team (my friend Dee swears by the Exeggutor version) and had pretty good results too, I think.

Hope you guys enjoy reading!


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such darkness wow


In-depth Analysis




Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 224 HP / 240 SpD / 44 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head
- Toxic

So like I said, this guy was the basis of the team. He's not the most important member, but he's still reasonably consistent and just invalidates certain kinds of teams at preview (Klefki squads and some stall builds). He also handles threats like NP Togekiss, CM Clefable, CM M-Sableye, non-Focus Blast Thundurus, Raikou, and so on.

Looking at the moveset, I don't use Earthquake, which is a bit strange but I think is a necessary evil. The only thing it seriously costs me against is SubCM Raikou, and opponents have to assume I'm carrying EQ anyway. Iron Head and Rapid Spin are both necessary. Stealth Rock because it doesn't fit on Chansey, and the guaranteed Rocks up against M-Sableye stalls is beautiful. Toxic lets me pressure M-Sableye, counter CM variants, and put a timer on common switch-ins. Swords Dance + Rocks Lando and Chomper are really common, so getting Toxic on them or removing their Lum Berry makes M-Sableye's job much easier.

EV's are courtesy of NotFalse, creeping defensive Lando-T and some other important stuff around that benchmark, while grabbing a Lefties (+1) number.


Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EV's: 248 HP / 108 Def / 152 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Will-o-wisp
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Magical set. Every time a M-Sableye or a Bisharp or something burns itself on my Talonflame I start crying at how beautiful it is. People tell me that Flame Body bird is bad, but people also said that Monopoly and Harry Potter were bad. Consider this. Two evenly matched stall teams generally try to pressure the opposing M-Sableye, whittling away at its Recover pp until it dies. Flame Body Talonflame prevents opposing Sableye from trying to hit my own, at risk of crippling themselves and essentially using up one of their team's precious 8 Heal Bells. This set is simply an auto-win against the majority of stall teams on the ladder. You also can't underestimate the clutch ability to get crucial burns on threatening physical sweepers.

The other advantage of Flame Body is that since I don't need Bulk Up to 1v1 non-Toxic Sableye, I can carry both Will-o-wisp and Taunt. Taunt in particular is really nice to have as a safeguard against Baton Pass Mew or Celebi.

Moveset and EV's are pretty straightforward...I used no-item Acrobatics for a while, but with Chesnaught in the team to absorb Knock Off the passive healing from Leftovers more than compensates for Brave Bird's recoil. Also it lures lots of juicy unsuspecting Sableye's into Knock Off-ing me. 152 Speed Jolly outruns Serperior, and lets me get burns off against things like SD Lum Chomp if needed. The rest of the investment goes into defense to switch into CB Azu's Play Rough with Rocks up, cushion M-Gard's Psyshock, and some other good stuff.




Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spe
Impish Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Spikes
- Drain Punch
- Synthesis

Not much to say about this, it's standard Chesnaught pretty much. Nice typing and bulk for dealing with Bisharp, physical Hoopa, Excadrill and other Grounds, and M-Gyara. Also helps check CM Manaphy and Suicune if I get lucky avoiding burns.

I was running the standard Leech Seed + Spiky Shield, but Wood Hammer makes more sense overall to compensate for the team's BD Azu weakness. My only gripe is that, for a mon that primarily checks sand offense, Synthesis is pretty unreliable healing, but it's manageable (I have Wish, and other options to handle sand anyway). Speed investment creeps standard BD Azu, and the rest goes in physical bulk.





Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EV's: 248 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic / Fake Out
- Will-o-wisp
- Knock Off
- Recover

I used to love using M-Sableye, but he's a bit vulnerable in this metagame thanks to the number of stallbreakers which can take advantage of him, and the rise of more offensive Rocks setters. He's also slow as dirt and extremely liable to being taken out of the game by a single crit or flinch. But Sableye still has a lot of utility that I just couldn't pass up, and covers a few critical offensive threats like M-Medicham and Gengar.

This set's a bit dated now, but Fake Out is 100% necessary on this team. I've got a heavy Rocks weakness and a sometimes-unreliable Spinner, meaning I need Magic Bounce straight away; and without Unaware some sweepers just need to be poisoned and stalled out of health, which Fake Out is invaluable for. Finally, it scouts the movesets of Azumarill, Tornadus-T, and others.

Will-o-wisp > Toxic is a really tough call...without Toxic, I usually lose to Taunt + BU Talonflame. I can only beat it with surprise Toxic from Excadrill, or threatening Toxic from Chansey then doubling into M-Sab to reflect Taunt. However, Prankster Wisp is such a useful emergency button that I think it's the better option.

EV's focus more on physical defense than is standard. With Talonflame and Exca on the team, I'm less concerned about Gengar and Zam, so special defensive investment isn't as necessary. Sableye's primary function on the team is preventing Rocks, so the extra buffer against Ground type setters, Tyranitar, and even Ferrothorn is appreciated. 4 Speed EV's is so I can get a guaranteed Recover off against opposing Sableye if necessary.




Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake / Waterfall
- Dragon Tail / Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This is really stupid but I swear it works. I need something for Keldeo, Heatran, and Zard-X in this slot, and I prefer Gyarados over Slowbro for its Ground immunity, Intimidate to play around threats and help other team members, resilience against Magma Storm Tran, and its ability to absorb Scald.

Earthquake is critical, 2HKOing Zard-X (while -1 Dragon Claw does about 25% max after Leftovers) and breaking SubCM Keldeo's Subs. Scald is a great move to have, and makes Gyara much less passive, but a phazing option is more solid. In particular it makes my ability to deal with CroCune and CM Manaphy less tenuous, so it's the better (but less fun) option. Dragon Tail is preferred over Roar to get rid of Taunt users (Talonflame, Gliscor), just be wary of giving BD Azu set-up opportunities.




Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Def / 248 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Toxic

Blob. Zard-Y, Kyu-B and Manaphy counter and cleric. Not being able to fit Seismic Toss is annoying, but the team really needs Wish (for Excadrill and Chesnaught), and generally I find Toxic to be the better attacking option. It just means that I need to play better against Taunt M-Gard. Soft-Boiled over Protect because being reliant on Protect for recovery is a huge liability without Unaware on the team.

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Threat List
Physical Dragons are a big problem, since my only Dragon resist is Exca. Kyu-B is the main culprit, since I can't play around it safely with Gyara and Chesnaught.
Taunt + boosting Talonflame. If I have Dragon Tail Gyara helps, but it's still a threat if provided with Heal Bell or Healing Wish support (Exca always surprises them with Toxic once, and then I can force them out by using M-Sableye to reflect Taunt).
All stall teams without Quag or M-Venu are weak to BD Azu, and mine is no exception, although with careful play it's manageable. CB is also a threat though since I lack a physically defensive Fairy resist. Gyara takes 40% from Play Rough, so I often try to make aggressive switches into it with Talonflame.​

SubCM Raikou. Chesnaught and Excadrill kinda check it, if you get unlucky with Exca's Iron Head rolls it's possible to lose.​
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Will-o-wisp
- Knock Off
- Recover

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spe
Impish Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Spikes
- Drain Punch
- Synthesis

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 152 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Def / 248 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Toxic

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 224 HP / 240 SpD / 44 Spe
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin

 
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toshimelonhead

Honey Badger don't care.
is a Tiering Contributor
I'm pretty sure this was a build I played against today so I'll post some comments here. Opponent used Alomomola -> Gyarados (a switch that I do NOT recommend because it gives too many setup opportunities and certainly does not deter Azumarill from doing stuff). The biggest thing I noticed was that Chesnaught needed Wood Hammer or Seed Bomb over Leech Seed - it doesn't deter Azumarill enough if it gets a free setup with Belly Drum. You already outspeed it - why not take advantage of it? Chesnaught can OHKO standard Belly Azumarill with 108 attack evs if you want to add that, too.

Otherwise I think it's a solid team and less tinkering is better than more in this case given its track record. You can try Unaware Clefable -> Chansey with almost a similar set but I'd leave that choice to you. It would help against SubCM Raikou and BD Azumarill, as well. Only hesitancy is that Chansey walls so much stuff and Clefable doesn't have the same bulk to take on physical attacks. I checked for an OU legal set and came up with this:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast / Toxic
- Moonlight
- Aromatherapy
- Wish

The other final advice I give to those stealing this team is make sure you can control momentum because the biggest threat to this team is setup sweepers that can break through Talonflame + Chansey + Sableye-Mega. That is not a long list, admittedly, but that's how to break this team.

Great team! Congrats on the peak.
 
Hi,

I'm secretly a big fan of you tbh *-* All your posts seem intelligent, and you make well formatted posts, and solid, compelling arguments.
I'm going to try and rate this team because it has stuff I really like; Sab Talon, and SpDef Exca, and also uses a bunch of lesser used sets such as Defensive Gyarados, and Flame Body Talonflame. I really like this build.
If I'm honest, I don't think theres much I can edit to undoubtedly improve the team in every aspect, but I have an idea or two that might be worth considering.

Firstly, Alomomola > Gyarados is a potential switch, and opens up much more than just swapping one bulky Water for another. Alo still brings the reliable answer to Zard X, as well as non Sub+CM Keldeo, but that's not the pivotal part. With Alo acting as a reliable pivot, and Wish passer due to Regen, you can swap Chansey to another utility move, whether that be Seis Toss, Protect, or even Stealth Rock if you wanted (although I do think Rocks on Excadrill is worthwhile to be able to get Rocks vs M-Sab) Alo is also a more solid answer to CB Azu, which would obviously be nice insurance for your team. Alo is a little bit better vs physical attackers like Mega Pinsir too, so I guess that's good. Obviously, as I said, this doesn't solve everything, it does open you up a bit more to Sub+CM Keldeo, as well as some other powerful Ground types. However it does help in some matchups too, and I think is at least worth considering.

Next, just a small edit, but Excadrill's spread can be optimised slightly to give it the neccesary speed to creep Rotom-W, Landorus-T, and also max Speed Magnezone. Sniping a Rotom-W with Earthquake, or Toxicing a Landorus-T can be pivotal in certain matchups. You sacrifice very little bulk, and I think the Speed is worth it. 224 HP / 248 SpD / 36 Spe is the spread so you hit 221 Speed, and also hit a Leftovers number +1 in HP.

I know this is kinda throwaway, but Unaware Clef seems like it would fit perfectly on this team. However, I couldn't find a place to effectively slot it in without compromising the team vs multiple other Pokemon :[

tl;dr
>

Tweak Spread on
Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald / Knock Off
- Toxic / Knock Off / Mirror Coat
- Protect
- Wish

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 224 HP / 248 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
Reading this actually made my morning, thanks so much! In regard to Alomomola, I trialled it at some point (to free up Chansey's Wish moveslot like you said) but the team can't really afford the passivity, especially without Unaware. Since I'm changing to Synthesis Chesnaught I also need Gyarados' ability to handle sand threats like Excadrill and SD Lando, and the SubCM Keld weakness would be difficult to compensate for as well.

I did steal your Excadrill spread though, plus some more speed creep. Thanks dude, I really appreciated this rate :)

I'm pretty sure this was a build I played against today so I'll post some comments here. Opponent used Alomomola -> Gyarados (a switch that I do NOT recommend because it gives too many setup opportunities and certainly does not deter Azumarill from doing stuff). The biggest thing I noticed was that Chesnaught needed Wood Hammer or Seed Bomb over Leech Seed - it doesn't deter Azumarill enough if it gets a free setup with Belly Drum. You already outspeed it - why not take advantage of it? Chesnaught can OHKO standard Belly Azumarill with 108 attack evs if you want to add that, too.

Otherwise I think it's a solid team and less tinkering is better than more in this case given its track record. You can try Unaware Clefable -> Chansey with almost a similar set but I'd leave that choice to you. It would help against SubCM Raikou and BD Azumarill, as well. Only hesitancy is that Chansey walls so much stuff and Clefable doesn't have the same bulk to take on physical attacks. I checked for an OU legal set and came up with this:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast / Toxic
- Moonlight
- Aromatherapy
- Wish

The other final advice I give to those stealing this team is make sure you can control momentum because the biggest threat to this team is setup sweepers that can break through Talonflame + Chansey + Sableye-Mega. That is not a long list, admittedly, but that's how to break this team.

Great team! Congrats on the peak.
I haven't played in weeks so it would have been someone else :) You're spot on about Chesnaught - I'd started using Roar Gyara to limit Azu's set-up opportunities, but going back to Wood Hammer + Synth Ches must be optimal. Unaware Clefable would help with Azu somewhat (although to do its job it can't afford much physical defense investment), but without Natural Cure I'm really vulnerable to bulky Waters using Scald to burn through my Heal Bell pp. It'd also make me weaker to things like special-based Kyu-B, Gengar, Latios, Zard-Y if the opponent gets Rocks up, and so on.

Updated the RMT to reflect the changes to Chesnaught and Excadrill.
 
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Ehy NiceTeam! :) My advice is to replace chansey with clefable. So as to better withstand kyurem and check Raikou.



you can try this set from 3HKO kyurem (252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 104+ SpD Clefable: 175-208 (44.4 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery)


Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Thunder-Wave/heal bell

For Azumarill my advice is to try Alomomola>Gyarados because it allows you to better withsand Azumarill (252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 223-264 (42.1 - 49.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery) and (252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 150-177(28.3 - 33.4%) -- 92.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery)
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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


Alomomola @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 36 HP / 220 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Scald

SPOILER:
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Thunder-Wave/ heal bell

Alomomola @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 36 HP / 220 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Scald


I hope I have helped you and GL with the team :)
 
Last edited:

busyguy

formerly mil
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Hey, Sableye+Talon+Spinner is very effective and I like it to see different teams around it other than the one Honus built.
>

I hate to see stall teams lose to Manaphy. Chansey can't check Rain Dance variants, it sets up on it and you lose. Also other setup sweepers look problematic, like DD Dragonite. My problem here is that a team with Charizard X + wallbreaker like SD Garchomp will overwhelm Gyarados, maybe sacrifice itself, to open a hole for Charizard to win. An Unaware Clefable set with a Calm nature and 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 SpD (thx Snowy. for the set) takes on all Manaphy sets, without getting 2hkod. The CM variant can't really do damage to you and the offensive variant can be weakened with Moonblasts till Talonflame can revenge it. Kyurem, Lopunny, Garchomp, Latios, all are covered by Clefable too. It isn't 2hkod without Stealth Rock, but with them up they turn into roles. Your team is centered around hazard control though, so keeping rocks off the field is a central element of your team.
0 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 248 HP / 24+ SpD Clefable in Rain: 126-148 (32 - 37.6%)
252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 248 HP / 24+ SpD Clefable in Rain: 160-189 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 24+ SpD Clefable: 175-208 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 236 Def Clefable: 168-199 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Clefable: 159-187 (40.4 - 47.5%)-- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 248 HP / 236 Def Clefable: 169-199 (43 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Taking away special bulk from the team, Talonflame needs to be max SpD. Takes on Charizard-Y, Latios and Gardevoir, which you originally covered with Chansey. This also helps a lot more against LO Tornadus-T with taut. With Clefable on the team to deal with Sableye, there is no need to run Flame Body. The loss of speed means that you have to run Gale Wings now. Also, being able to outspeed priority moves late game especially from Azu (!) and outspeeding Tornadus-T is crucial. Talonflame can't take two priority moves if it is weakened, like the combination of Mach Punch from Breloom + BP Scizor late game.


You're not worried about Gengar and Mega Alakazam because you have Excadrill?
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Excadrill: 322-380 (75.9 - 89.6%)
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Excadrill: 308-364 (72.6 - 85.8%)
I recommend to run the standard 144+ SpD set, Talonflame takes 50-60 from LO Sludge Wave and potentially gets poisoned and it can only revenge it at ~60% with Acro.
Also, have you considered CM Sableye on this team? Your team lacks a wincondition and this change can make it less passive.


What's your way of beating Talonflame with this team? It SDs and your switch into Gyara and you can't touch it with this set. Everything else gets almost Ohkod at +2, then you lose a vital member on your team, thus a check to a certain threat and you lose because of that opening. Gyarados isn't hard to wear down or force out, so it will never be able to check Talonflame savely, especially if it burns it on the switchin. With Clefable on the team, you don't need to worry about breaking Keldeo's Sub, because Clef walls it. The Combination of Waterfall / Thunder Wave (or Dragon Tail) / RestTalk deals with Charizard X.


Very small change, but that can save your Chesnaught: 12 Atk EVs allow you to Ohko 172 HP Azumarill after Stealth Rock damage.
12 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 336-396 (87.5 - 103.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Here is the changed version of the team
Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off / Calm Mind
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Fake Out / Shadow Ball

Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 248 HP / 12 Atk / 184 Def / 64 Spe
Impish Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Spikes
- Drain Punch
- Synthesis

Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Acrobatics
- Roost
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 SpD
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Waterfall
- Thunder Wave / Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 224 HP / 248 SpD / 36 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
 
Last edited:
Hey, Sableye+Talon+Spinner is very effective and I like it to see different teams around it other than the one Honus built.
>

I hate to see stall teams lose to Manaphy. Chansey can't check Rain Dance variants, it sets up on it and you lose. Also other setup sweepers look problematic, like DD Dragonite. My problem here is that a team with Charizard X + wallbreaker like SD Garchomp will overwhelm Gyarados, maybe sacrifice itself, to open a hole for Charizard to win. An Unaware Clefable set with a Calm nature and 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 SpD (thx Snowy. for the set) takes on all Manaphy sets, without getting 2hkod. The CM variant can't really do damage to you and the offensive variant can be weakened with Moonblasts till Talonflame can revenge it. Kyurem, Lopunny, Garchomp, Latios, all are covered by Clefable too. It isn't 2hkod without Stealth Rock, but with them up they turn into roles. Your team is centered around hazard control though, so keeping rocks off the field is a central element of your team.
0 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 248 HP / 24+ SpD Clefable in Rain: 126-148 (32 - 37.6%)
252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 248 HP / 24+ SpD Clefable in Rain: 160-189 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 24+ SpD Clefable: 175-208 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 236 Def Clefable: 168-199 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Clefable: 159-187 (40.4 - 47.5%)-- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 248 HP / 236 Def Clefable: 169-199 (43 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Taking away special bulk from the team, Talonflame needs to be max SpD. Takes on Charizard-Y, Latios and Gardevoir, which you originally covered with Chansey. This also helps a lot more against LO Tornadus-T with taut. With Clefable on the team to deal with Sableye, there is no need to run Flame Body. The loss of speed means that you have to run Gale Wings now. Also, being able to outspeed priority moves late game especially from Azu (!) and outspeeding Tornadus-T is crucial. Talonflame can't take two priority moves if it is weakened, like the combination of Mach Punch from Breloom + BP Scizor late game.


You're not worried about Gengar and Mega Alakazam because you have Excadrill?
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Excadrill: 322-380 (75.9 - 89.6%)
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Excadrill: 308-364 (72.6 - 85.8%)
I recommend to run the standard 144+ SpD set, Talonflame takes 50-60 from LO Sludge Wave and potentially gets poisoned and it can only revenge it at ~60% with Acro.
Also, have you considered CM Sableye on this team? Your team lacks a wincondition and this change can make it less passive.


What's your way of beating Talonflame with this team? It SDs and your switch into Gyara and you can't touch it with this set. Everything else gets almost Ohkod at +2, then you lose a vital member on your team, thus a check to a certain threat and you lose because of that opening. Gyarados isn't hard to wear down or force out, so it will never be able to check Talonflame savely, especially if it burns it on the switchin. With Clefable on the team, you don't need to worry about breaking Keldeo's Sub, because Clef walls it. The Combination of Waterfall / Thunder Wave (or Dragon Tail) / RestTalk deals with Charizard X.


Very small change, but that can save your Chesnaught: 12 Atk EVs allow you to Ohko 172 HP Azumarill after Stealth Rock damage.
12 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 336-396 (87.5 - 103.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Here is the changed version of the team
CM Rest Manaphy is annoying but beatable in many circumstances by just stalling out its eight Rain Dances with Chansey in combination with Gyara's phazing, Chesnaught's Wood Hammer (previously Seed), and even Talon's Taunt if needed. TG Rain Dance doesn't use Rest so I can phaze with Gyara and just wear it down into range for Talon or to the point where it can't set up. Not saying it's not a weakness, but it's not a straight loss either.

Gengar and M-Zam again can be threatening, but M-Sab still checks both, Talon outspeeds Gengar and 2HKO's while living a hit, and Zam gets countered by Chansey unless Taunt (which means M-Sab beats it). Excadrill is more of a last resort check. Again, two mons which can be annoying in conjunction with other threats, but not individually super problematic.

100% agree regarding SD Talonflame though. I didn't register that Dragon Tail > Scald on Gyara gave me such a huge weakness to it, and I haven't really seen any non-bulky Talon in ages. Considering just Waterfall + Dragon Tail for Gyara, despite the resultant problems with Zard-X if it carries Roost; otherwise I might just have to replace it for Slowbro (or Mola I guess if I use Unaware Fable).

Re. Clefable > Chansey and the associated changes to Gyarados and Talonflame, Flame Body Talonflame is staying due to the team's weakness to physical boosters, and because Unaware Clefable doesn't actually beat Sableye (it just gets stalled out of Heal Bell pp over any extended battle). Things like Rotom-W and SubCM Keldeo can do a similar thing with Clefable unfortunately. I'm also worried about the SR weakness, because like you said a lot of things like Kyu-B are iffy for Clefable to handle with any source of residual damage included. Nonetheless there are clear benefits to the changes you suggest as well, so I'm definitely going to trial them and see if changing another member would make them a better fit.

This response probably comes across as really critical, but I actually think this was a fantastic rate. I appreciate it dude :)
 

AM

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I've always been fond of stall teams out of curiosity of the building process granted I think these days they can be a hit or miss due to lures, the amount of crazy wall-breakers, and the usual flaws a stall team has to contend with. The processes involved here is nice and the Gyarados takes me back to the XY days a bit. Like NotFalse I'm a big fan of your posting as well for awhile now and it's nice to see you around with intelligent feedback in the OU Forum.

A lot of the rates put a ton of emphasis on your Azumarill weakness and while there's definitely one there I think there's a more underlying issue on this RMT. Right now Scald is suggested as a slash but I think you need to consider Dragon Tail as the only slash because CM Suicune is an enormous problem for the team, which has been gaining usage alongside Reuniclus. Chesnaught is pretty easy to get a burn on and once it gets burned it's practically game over since Chansey won't be able to heal it off in time for Chesnaught to come in again to attack.

Gyarados should also be running 48 Speed minimum when using Dragon Tail as well in order to phase out Roar Suicune first before it phases you out, assuming it's a min speed Suicune which is why 48 is a minimum that can be catered to ones needs. With the two above suggestions in mind breaking down Suicune and defensive waters like Manaphy should be a bit easier through the utilization of its phasing and hazard pressure, which is normally the biggest flaw with these defensive waters in the tier. Set should look something like this.
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 48 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Impish should be used now to hit the necessary speed tier and the fact you would be forgoing Scald completely.

Toxic is cute on Excadrill but I've never seen games where it'll pose a threat to M-Sableye against a player who doesn't have a peanut for a brain. They see the stall team and Mold Breaker activate, come in and know it's either Scarf or fat drill, with a team like this it's not hard to guess which variant it is. It should be running Earthquake on that slot so you can pressure Raikou easily without wearing down Chansey too much and not sort of keeling over to a SubCM Variant which it seems like you do right now. This also let's you break down Rotom-W a bit more easily which isn't exactly an enormous problem but it seems like it does whatever it wants when it comes in most times.

Yeah Clefable is nice in theory like everyone here has been suggesting but Chansey is unfortunately a necessity on this team for the stuff you mentioned it checks like Char-Y. You don't have max spdef Talonflame and even then the last thing you want is to see one of the OU regulars catch you with the Ancientpower lure variant of it and knowing your Clefable is going to get roasted in the long run. I know you like Toxic with Chansey but using a phasing Gyarados as your TG / RD Manaphy check is a pretty shaky means to me to handle it and I think you should consider biting the bullet with using a real attacking move in Seismic Toss.

These changes in mind amplify your Talonflame weakness, the one you were claiming about BU Talonflame. I think it would be wise to consider Toxic over Fake Out to remedy this issue which I don't think is a necessity as much as you believe as it is a luxury. The lack of Toxic on your previous two holders would make you slightly weaker to Mega Latias so having Toxic here would help with this as well to net a higher damage output in the long run.

mil's suggestion of SpDef on M-Sableye is really for the wrong reasons in the context of how a stall team would normally play against Gengar and M-Alakazam, which you have the means to handle. You would be running more SpDef on M-Sableye to stomach Life Orb Hurricanes from Torn-T. Even then though it requires you to run a lot more SpDef than the standard spread provides which would make you susceptible to the likes of Weavile and Tankchomp more easily due to the lack of Defense. I think playing around Torn-T is one of the few necessary evils you'll have to contend with which comes with using stall teams like this in general. Just ORAS things.

Concluding all of that is a more optional Chesnaught change with more speed which I'm not a huge fan of but it's something to consider for anyone planning on using this in a tour environment where BD Azus are known to run more speed investment from time to time. AJ, sort of a stall fanatic, back in the XY days use to run a spread of 248 HP / 36 Def + / 220 Speed Impish to outpace all Azu variants at the cost of losing bulk. This change also let's you get the jump on Suicune as well but this change is for a more aggressive player, yes you can use a stall team aggressively, so it's something to think about in tandem with the above suggestions.

Cya around.
 
I've always been fond of stall teams out of curiosity of the building process granted I think these days they can be a hit or miss due to lures, the amount of crazy wall-breakers, and the usual flaws a stall team has to contend with. The processes involved here is nice and the Gyarados takes me back to the XY days a bit. Like NotFalse I'm a big fan of your posting as well for awhile now and it's nice to see you around with intelligent feedback in the OU Forum.

A lot of the rates put a ton of emphasis on your Azumarill weakness and while there's definitely one there I think there's a more underlying issue on this RMT. Right now Scald is suggested as a slash but I think you need to consider Dragon Tail as the only slash because CM Suicune is an enormous problem for the team, which has been gaining usage alongside Reuniclus. Chesnaught is pretty easy to get a burn on and once it gets burned it's practically game over since Chansey won't be able to heal it off in time for Chesnaught to come in again to attack.

Gyarados should also be running 48 Speed minimum when using Dragon Tail as well in order to phase out Roar Suicune first before it phases you out, assuming it's a min speed Suicune which is why 48 is a minimum that can be catered to ones needs. With the two above suggestions in mind breaking down Suicune and defensive waters like Manaphy should be a bit easier through the utilization of its phasing and hazard pressure, which is normally the biggest flaw with these defensive waters in the tier. Set should look something like this.
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 48 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Impish should be used now to hit the necessary speed tier and the fact you would be forgoing Scald completely.

Toxic is cute on Excadrill but I've never seen games where it'll pose a threat to M-Sableye against a player who doesn't have a peanut for a brain. They see the stall team and Mold Breaker activate, come in and know it's either Scarf or fat drill, with a team like this it's not hard to guess which variant it is. It should be running Earthquake on that slot so you can pressure Raikou easily without wearing down Chansey too much and not sort of keeling over to a SubCM Variant which it seems like you do right now. This also let's you break down Rotom-W a bit more easily which isn't exactly an enormous problem but it seems like it does whatever it wants when it comes in most times.

Yeah Clefable is nice in theory like everyone here has been suggesting but Chansey is unfortunately a necessity on this team for the stuff you mentioned it checks like Char-Y. You don't have max spdef Talonflame and even then the last thing you want is to see one of the OU regulars catch you with the Ancientpower lure variant of it and knowing your Clefable is going to get roasted in the long run. I know you like Toxic with Chansey but using a phasing Gyarados as your TG / RD Manaphy check is a pretty shaky means to me to handle it and I think you should consider biting the bullet with using a real attacking move in Seismic Toss.

These changes in mind amplify your Talonflame weakness, the one you were claiming about BU Talonflame. I think it would be wise to consider Toxic over Fake Out to remedy this issue which I don't think is a necessity as much as you believe as it is a luxury. The lack of Toxic on your previous two holders would make you slightly weaker to Mega Latias so having Toxic here would help with this as well to net a higher damage output in the long run.

mil's suggestion of SpDef on M-Sableye is really for the wrong reasons in the context of how a stall team would normally play against Gengar and M-Alakazam, which you have the means to handle. You would be running more SpDef on M-Sableye to stomach Life Orb Hurricanes from Torn-T. Even then though it requires you to run a lot more SpDef than the standard spread provides which would make you susceptible to the likes of Weavile and Tankchomp more easily due to the lack of Defense. I think playing around Torn-T is one of the few necessary evils you'll have to contend with which comes with using stall teams like this in general. Just ORAS things.

Concluding all of that is a more optional Chesnaught change with more speed which I'm not a huge fan of but it's something to consider for anyone planning on using this in a tour environment where BD Azus are known to run more speed investment from time to time. AJ, sort of a stall fanatic, back in the XY days use to run a spread of 248 HP / 36 Def + / 220 Speed Impish to outpace all Azu variants at the cost of losing bulk. This change also let's you get the jump on Suicune as well but this change is for a more aggressive player, yes you can use a stall team aggressively, so it's something to think about in tandem with the above suggestions.

Cya around.
Ughhh I thought I was done wrestling with this team and now this amazing rate / necro bump / desperate attempt to get a TR badge has brought it all back to the surface :(

I've been using Toxic on M-Sableye and Earthquake + Roar Gyarados. Roar often lures BD Azumarill into wasting its set-up opportunity, although Dragon Tail is obviously an option for Taunt Gliscor and the extra damage. Hesitant about the speed investment on Gyarados for such a rare threat as Roar Cune, especially when forgoing Fake Out on M-Eye, because Gyara really needs all the bulk it can get.

Seismic Toss on Chansey would probably go over Wish, which is a bit of a relic from using Leech Seed Chesnaught. I think Toxic's probably too valuable against three-attacks Manaphy, Tornadus, Lefties NP Thund, AoA Serp etc. Seismic Toss does make Taunt Heatran less of a threat as well, which seems to be the primary stallbreaker on a lot of teams nowadays...there might even be an option of something like Light Screen/Calm Mind + Seismic Toss to stall out Manaphy, NP Thund etc...?(which sounds really bad ofc but you never know)

Finally Toxic on Exca is something I'd recommend keeping, particularly if using Seismic Toss Chans for another SubCM Raikou and Heatran answer. Being able to spin against M-Eye + SR Tran teams is important, and Toxic hits a lot of common switch-ins (which include some pretty annoying mons like Keldeo). Even with the team as is, beating Kou isn't too difficult if Excadrill can be kept healthy (Iron Head has a 25% to break the Sub, whereas they need to boost to +4 to 3HKO Exca).

Anyway I guess I've gotta re-test this and make some final decisions on the movesets. Thanks for taking the time to understand the team and critique it to such a level, it honestly means a lot :)
 
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