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Pyroak Analysis Workshop

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by Sunday, May 8, 2008.

  1. Sunday

    Sunday God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
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    All fixes must be in bold so I can see what you've changed. Other than that go wild. You can see what areas need to most work by yourselves though.

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Lava Plume
    move 3: Grass Knot
    move 4: Rest / Synthesis / AromatherapyGrass
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Battle Armor
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Use Pyroaks's amazing defenses to come in with ease, and start putting a hurt into opponents. Even with no SpA EVs, Grass Knot is a 3HKO on Tyranitar, Lava Plume can burn him and he will not enjoy Leech Seed either, so do not worry too much about him. Heal status with Rest or Aromatherapy when needed. Feel free to engage in stall wars if you please: Leech Seed and his immunity to critical hits will allow Pyroak to come out on top.

    [SET]
    name: Rest + Sleep Talk
    move 1: Lava Plume
    move 2: Grass Knot / Leech Seed
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Battle Armor
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 32 SpD / 88 Spe
    To Do: Suitable alternative to Grass Knot? Aromatherapy?

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Pyroak can serve as a decent status absorber if need be. Lava Plume again provedes a reasonable chance of Burn while Grass Knot covers Bulky Waters and Grounds. Rest and Sleep Talk are the bread and butter of the set allowing Pyroak to absorb Status and hopefully inflict them off in his sleep.

    [SET]
    name: Sunny Day
    move 1: Sunny Day
    move 2: Fire Blast
    move 3: Solarbeam / Grass Knot
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ground
    item: Heat Rock
    ability: Battle Armor
    nature: Bold
    evs: 164 HP/ 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 84 spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Pyroak is a great choice for setting up Sunny Day. Although it can not abuse it directly, none of the three OU auto-weather Pokemon will dare switch into this. Abomasnow is 1HKO'd by Fire Blast, as Hippowdon is by Grass Knot. Solarbeam is not reccomended as if Hippowdon switches in on the same turn you use it you will be stuck charging, locked into using Solarbeam next turn and without sun. Hidden Power Fighting brings the ever menacing Tyranitar to his knees, but Hidden Power Ground allows you to hurt Heatran, who would love to abuse your sun itself. If you run Hidden Power Ground keep in mind that Grass Knot is still a 3HKO on most Tyranitar.

    [SET]
    Name: Physical
    Move 1: Howl / Synthesis / Rest
    Move 2: Flare Blitz
    Move 3: Wood Hammer
    Move 4: Brick Break / Synthesis / Sleep Talk
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Rock Head
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpD / 88 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Pyroak isn't afraid to get down and dirty with his attack. Even at 70 base, his quality movepool, excellent typing, and complimentary ability allows him to be a bona fide menace to any unsuspecting team. Surprising as it seems, Pyroak isn't locked into Howl on this set, as 120 BP STABs punish anything that isn't outright resistant, and can easily score a 2HKO on most non-walls; of course, Howl is likely the superior option; Pyroak can raise his attack unscrupulously behind those indecent defenses, and annihilate unsuspecting teams. Synthesis and Rest amplify his bulkiness, allowing him to weather blows like the best of them. Brick Break is a necessity to stop Heatran from ruining your fun, but Sleep Talk, coupled with his aforementioned bulkiness, allows him to fill the role of status absorber/Restalker with ease. Choice Band could easily be run, just use a fourth attacking move such as Return or Arial Ace.

    EVs are key here. 152 HP allows Pyroak to reach 319 HP total, which is a superior Life Orb number. Attack is maxed for most obvious reasons, and the 88 Speed sits Pyroak at 178, just barely enough to outspeed a Tyranitar running 76 Speed. 16 Special Defense is a dump of the remaining points, as putting them in HP would ruin the number, and putting them in Speed wouldn't allow him to outspeed anything at all extra.

    [SET]
    name: Special
    move 1: Growth
    move 2: Grass Knot
    move 3: Lava Plume / Flamethrower
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Ground / Rest
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Battle Armor
    nature: Modest
    evs: 224 HP / 252 SpA / 32 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    This time you're using Growth to raise Pyroak's larger Special Attack. Dual STAB provides good coverage which is complemented by either Rest or Hidden Power in the final slot. Rest should only really be used with Cleric Support. Hidden Power Ground or Hidden Power Rock are both siutable alternatives to Hidden Power Ice. Hidden Power Ground punished Heatran and other Fire type switch-ins. Hidden Power Rock hurts most Flying and Fire types. Flamethrower is an option over Lava Plume if you want that extra bit of power but your chance of inflicting a burn will go down. Fire Blast is not a good idea due to its low PP.

    [SET]
    name: Mixed
    move 1: Overheat / Fire Blast
    move 2: Wood Hammer
    move 3: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Brick Break / Leech Seed / Rest
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Rock Head
    nature: Naughty / Lonely
    evs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SAtk / 88 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    A mixed set lets Pyroak hit most of it's counters on their weaker sides. Skarmory and Forretress are hit hard by Overheat. Wood Hammer deals decent damage to most Bulky Waters, Bulky Grounds and Blissey. Hidden Power Rock deals with Fire / Flygin types who would otherwise manage to wall you, but if you lack Brick Break then Hidden Power Ground deals with Heatran. Don't even think of staying in on Heatran if you activate it's Flash Fire ability though, unless it is already on quite low health. EVs ensure Life Orb recoil is minimized, and you outspeed 76 Spe EVs Tyranitar.


    [OTHER OPTIONS]
    Pyroak has a multitude of support options that can be used if you can find the room. Light Screen is great for buffing Pyroak's weaker Special Defence. Reflect boosts Pyroak's stronger Defence but is also worth a look for team support. Aromathreapy heals the teams status, while SR would be a good choice if it wern't so incredibly common. Toxic is another way to spread status if you do not like WoW, and works well in conjunction with Leech Seed. Generic Choice sets could be run. On these just max Speed and the Attack of your choice if you do not want Pyroak to be specifically bulky.

    [EVs]
    For the more defencive sets focusing on HP before Defence and Special Defence ensure greater overall durability. On any set running Light Screen or Reflect the opposite Defence can be increased. 88 Speed is important for outspeeding 76 Spe EVs Tyranitar. 152 HP ensures Pyroak takes minimal damage from Life Orb. For pure tanking sets 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD gives even defences and maximizes durability.

    [OPINION]
    Puroak's great bulk, dual STABs and Leech Seed allow it to play it's role as a tank very well. It almost always comes out ontop of Stall Wars and very little switches into it completly unphazed. The only thing preventing Pyroak from being a stellar tank is the lack of reliable recovery outside of Leech seed. Decent attacking stats also allow it to run dedicated offencive sets on both sides, although these are hindered by the lack of a reliable way to stat-up.

    [COUNTERS]
    Heatran and, Dragonite and Salamence both resist it's dual STAB, but Heatran is vulnerable to Brick Break and both do not enjoy Leech Seed. Special versions of Salamence do extreemly well though as they do not mind Burn as much as their physical counterparts. Tentacruel causes Pyroak to take damage from Leech Seed thanks to it's Liquid Ooze ability. It resists it's fire STAB and Grass Knot has a measly 60 BP against it. Togekiss can easily switch in, and doesn't mind a Burn / Leech Seed as much as some others. STAB Air Slash hits Pyroak's weaker side. Moltres and Charizard are only mildly troubled by Leech Seed and not much else. Both can hit back with Air Slash. Arcanine, Ninetales, and Houndoom with Flash Fire can all come in on a Fire attack, get an attack boost at no damage, and then begin with a strong offensive. In addition to being immune to Fire, they resist it's Grass STAB as well. However, they all need to watch out for random Hidden Powers. Ninetales doesn't mind this as much as the others, but it should make Arcanine and Houndoom wary if Stealth Rock is down.
  2. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    A Sunny Day set shouldn't be in Other Options imo. In my opinion, Sunny Day / Fire Blast / (SolarBeam/Grass Knot) / (HP Rock/HP Fighting) is one of the dangerous sets that this Pokemon can offer. Neither Abomasnow, Hippowdon or Tyranitar would dare switch into that set.
  3. Captain

    Captain
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  4. jagged_angel

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    Are Togekiss and Tentacruel not counters then? Gulp if this thing really only has two solid counters.
  5. latinoheat

    latinoheat
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    moltres should probably be mentioned in counters
  6. Dane

    Dane

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    Not only Moltres, but also Charizard. To a lesser extent, any [high UU]/[BL] Pokemon with Flash Fire (Ninetales, Arcanine, Houndoom). Not sure whether I'd include Rapidash or not, but it's potentially there too.

    Then you have Thick Fat Pokemon, like Snorlax, Hariyama, and Miltank. They all halve your fire damage, and only take base line damage from grass.

    Also, not sure why you included Salamence as a counter but not Dragonite. It can switch in easier than Salamence can.
  7. latinoheat

    latinoheat
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    curselax is the only thing getting past woodman though, leech seed and the high defence means your just gonna be in a stall war.
  8. Lil Ant

    Lil Ant

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    Another Pokemon i thought would prosper, but instead the beauty of a Pokemon was ruined. See you guys in the next CAP.
  9. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Changes in bold, comments in italic.

    [SET]
    name: Special
    move 1: Growth Removed Charge Beam as it does not get it.
    move 2: Grass Knot
    move 3: Larva Plume
    move 4: Rest I put all the HPs in set comments
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Battle Armour
    nature: Modest
    evs: 224 HP / 252 SpA/ 32 SpD These evs are fine IMO, they came from X-Acts ev thingy. You could use 164 HP/ 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 84 Spe to beat the base 70s with no speed investment.


    I would put all 3 Hidden Power options in set comments leaving only rest on the main set. This will help to keep the main set tidy, also we don't really know the viability of different HPs yet.

    This time you're using Growth to raising your higher Special Attack. Dual STAB provides power and Rest insures that you will have time to boost.
    You have the option of using a specific Hidden Power to deal with its counters over rest, however with only leftovers healing you even with massive HP and defences you will be worn down by repeated attacks.
    Hidden Power Ground will KO Heatran and hit the non-Flying Fires hard, Hidden Power Rock lets you take on Fires and Flyers, Hidden Power Ice will slaughter the Dragons and hurt most Flyers.

    Should HP Electric be an option? It hits flyers SE, and Heatran+Dragons neutral. HP Fighting hits Heatran and normals SE and non-flying Fires neutral. They are lesser options though.

    Flamethrower is an option over Lava Plume if you want that extra bit of power (95bp Vs 80bp, a ~16% power boost) but your chance of inflicting a burn will go down (10% Vs 30%), Fire Blast is not a good idea mostly due to its low PP.


    Also for the EVs of all sets keep in mind that 84 speed evs les you beat no-speed base 70s (Skarmory, Breloom, Metagross, Cloyster, Ludicolo) 88 evs and you beat 4 speed versions of those Pokemon.

    Is LO recoil rounded up?
  10. Urza

    Urza

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    ummm....


    lava plume is a 100% accuracy move, as is flamethrower.

    it has 80 base power, and a 30% chance of burn.


    so, lava plume is to flamethrower as discharge is to thunderbolt.




    just wanted to clear that up for everyone.
  11. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    Life Orb recoil is rounded down.
  12. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Urza ops fixed.

    thanx Mekkah.

    so.. if you use max HP (444) it will take 44 damage each turn, 44/444=9.91% a turn
    but if it uses 232 evs (439) it would take 43 damage a turn, 43/439=8.72% a turn

    so with 232 evs rather than 252 you are 1.19% better off each turn.

    is this right?
  13. Mekkah

    Mekkah
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    Yes, that should be correct.
  14. zxn666

    zxn666

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    How about a new set?
    Sunny Day
    [set]
    164 HP/ 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 84 spe
    Item: Hot Rock/ Life orb/ Leftovers
    Sunny Day
    Solarbeam/grass knot
    Fire blast
    Hidden power Rock/ice

    Sunny Day special attacking set. Obviously fire blast is for STAB and for power in the sunlight. Solarbeam and Grass knot are a preference issue. Grass knot has the potential to be more powerful, and does not need sunlight, but Solarbeam is consistently powerful. It does need the sun to be used correctly however.

    Hidden Power Rock brings down many counters, such as Charizard, Moltres, Togekiss, and Gyarados, while Hidden Power Ice hurts the Dragons and certain fliers as well.

    Counters: Heatran. It cannot hurt Heatran.

    [Set 2]
    Solar Survivability
    252 HP / 136 Def / 32 SpD / 88 Spe
    Item:Leftovers/ hot rock
    Sunny Day
    Synthesis/Substitute/Solarbeam
    Leech Seed
    Fire Blast

    In the sun, this pokemon suddenly has a reliable healing move that heals more than 50% hp! It will have great survivability and can pose as a strong bulky wall. Whittle your opponent's HP down with Leech seed, fire blast any incoming grass types, and watch your opponent's frustration mount as they struggle to kill this thing. Synthesis can be replaced with Substitute for standard sub-seeding, or Solarbeam for extra STAB and to kill certain pesky water/rock/ground types.
  15. sbc

    sbc

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    Counters:

    Tentacruel - Liquid Ooze damages the pokemon if it is seeded and resists fire and takes 60BP neutral from grass knot. Can hit back with STAB sludge bomb or spike up.

    Togekiss - Comes in on grass knot and any fire moves without too much fear of a burn/leech seed and hits back with STAB air slash.

    Moltres/Charizard - Don't mind anything except maybe leech seed in Bellyzard and non-leftovers moltres. Moltres can hit it with a powerful air slash and Charizard can set up on it with ease.

    And to be honest, that's all I can think of for general counters, i.e. pokemon that are not neutered by a burn. Of course though if Gyarados avoids a burn it can taunt it and counter it as long as it doesn't have lava plume. Snorlax deals with any special based one not carrying leech seed.

    I suspect Gliscor can counter the howl set too with aerial ace.
  16. Dane

    Dane

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    Charizard can Air Slash too.
  17. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    I think you underestimate 120/105 defences, 60 BP move even STAB and SE will not do much. It takes neutral damage from both 180 BP attacks.

    I would add SpecsMence and Heatran, without a specific Hidden Power its not going to do mush to them. Leach Seed is annoying but really they can take it.
  18. Dane

    Dane

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    [COUNTERS]
    Heatran, Salamence, and Dragonite all resist it's dual STAB, but Heatran is vulnerable to Brick Break, Salamence and Dragonite don't enjoy HP Rock or HP Ice, and none enjoy Leech Seed. Special versions of Salamence and Dragonite do better than their physical counterparts as they are not affected by burn's attack lowering trait. Moltres and Charizard resist it's Fire STAB, and double resist it's Grass STAB. They can then either Air Slash for double STAB damage or throw a STAB Fire Attack for neutral damage. Only HP Rock hits these two for SE damage. Arcanine, Ninetales, and Houndoom with Flash Fire can all come in on a Fire attack, get an attack boost at no damage, and then begin with a strong offensive. In addition to being immune to Fire, they resist it's Grass STAB as well. These can be hit for SE damage by either HP Rock or HP Ground. Togekiss can come in at neutral damage, and threaten with Air Slash. Unlike Moltres and Charizard's Air Slashes, Togekiss has double the chance of causing a flinch. Hariyama with Thick Fat can come in on a Fire attack and threaten with a Stone Edge. Snorlax with Thick Fat can also come in on a special variant's Fire attack and threaten with Rock Slide. Miltank with Thick Fat can come in on a Fire attack and threaten with Rock Slide.



    Just remembered Sunday wanted changes bolded.
  19. Raverist

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    I guess Ninetales can come in on WoW, get a boost and shut it down with Hypnosis before plotting up and using something like Extrasensory or whatever as a counter since he's slower than Obi in the morning.
  20. Pombo

    Pombo

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    So we made another poke that can be easil countered by Heakiss =D

    ( both of our pokes can be countered by heatran ((scarfed, scyclant) and togekiss ((Rev)))
  21. Elevator Music

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    Also, does anyone think that maybe the ResTalk set should be moved to other options? It seems kinda filler and not very good.

    I agree with Mekkah that a Sunny Day set should by added instead of being in other options.
  22. Lord Gloom

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    [SET]
    Name: Physical
    Move 1: Howl/Synthesis/Rest
    Move 2: Flare Blitz
    Move 3: Wood Hammer
    Move 4: Brick Break/Synthesis/Sleep Talk
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Rock Head
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpD / 88 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <Woodman> isn't afraid to get down and dirty with his attack. Even at 70 base, his quality movepool, excellent typing, and complimentary ability allows him to be a bona fide menace to any unsuspecting team. Surprising as it seems, <Woodman> isn't locked into Howl on this set, as 120 BP STABs punish anything that isn't outright resistant, and can easily score a 2HKO on most non-walls; of course, Howl is likely the superior option; <Woodman> can raise his attack unscrupulously behind those indecent defenses, and annihilate unsuspecting teams. Synthesis and Rest amplify his bulkiness, allowing him to weather blows like the best of them. Brick Break is a necessity to stop Heatran from ruining your fun, but Sleep Talk, coupled with his aforementioned bulkiness, allows him to fill the role of status absorber/Restalker with ease.

    EVs are key here. 152 HP allows <Woodman> to reach 319 HP total, which (to my understanding) is a superior Life Orb number. Attack is maxed for most obvious reasons, and the 88 Speed sits <Woodman> at 178, just barely (by one point) enough to outspeed a Tyranitar running 76 Speed. 16 Special Defense is a dump of the remaining points, as putting them in HP would ruin the number, and putting them in Speed wouldn't allow him to outspeed anything at all extra (is there anything that commonly runs between 179 and 181 speed?)

    As always, feedback appreciated.
  23. gorm

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    i hate this. imo change to "STAB on twin 120 base power moves" or something. Stab doesn't effect base power, it effects damage, much like type effectiveness. this is smogon, and we should stay consistent with our damage formula (which also happens to be the most accurate one around)
    for reference
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25175
  24. tennisace

    tennisace brock you like a hurricane
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    [SET]
    Name: Choice Band
    Move 1: Flare Blitz
    Move 2: Wood Hammer
    Move 3: Brick Break/Dig
    Move 4: Return/Dig/Rock Tomb/Aerial Ace
    Item: Choice Band
    Ability: Rock Head
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpD / 88 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <Woodman> isn't afraid to get down and dirty with his attack. Even at 70 base, his quality movepool, excellent typing, and complimentary ability allows him to be a bona fide menace to any unsuspecting team. Surprising as it seems, <Woodman> isn't locked into Howl on this set, as 120 BP STABs punish anything that isn't outright resistant, and can easily score a 2HKO on most non-walls. Brick Break is a necessity to stop Heatran from ruining your fun. In the last slot, Return offers general coverage. Dig hits other fire types more than Brick Break, however the setup kills it. Rock Tomb hits flyers/dragons, and Aerial Ace is the only other semi-viable move.

    EVs are key here. 152 HP allows <Woodman> to reach 319 HP total, which (to my understanding) is a superior Life Orb number. Attack is maxed for most obvious reasons, and the 88 Speed sits <Woodman> at 178, just barely (by one point) enough to outspeed a Tyranitar running 76 Speed. 16 Special Defense is a dump of the remaining points, as putting them in HP would ruin the number, and putting them in Speed wouldn't allow him to outspeed anything at all extra.

    [Notes]
    This is a combination of Eric's CB set with Lord Gloom's EVs. It kinda has
    slashitis in the last spot, but i think it should be an option with a little help from the community. Please comment.
  25. darkie

    darkie mfw i see alison brie
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    Why would you need a superior Life Orb number on a set called Choice Band?

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