1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

(QC 3/3) (GP 2/2) Hydreigon (Mixed)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by blunder, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. blunder

    blunder

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    573
    Hydreigon
    [​IMG]
    [SET]
    name: Mixed
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Outrage
    move 4: Fire Blast
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 104 Atk / 240 SpA / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Hydreigon is almost always seen running a fully special set, a mixed one is quite viable and effective, not to mention unpredictable and surprising due to Hydreigon's huge movepool. One might think Salamence is the better mixed Dragon-type, but this is not the case as Hydreigon has amazing mixed attacking stats, coupled with access to a plethora of wonderful moves. Hydreigon also manages to take hits just as easily as it would on the other sets because of its great 92 / 90 / 90 defenses. Draco Meteor is a powerful STAB move that takes advantage of Hydreigon's wonderful base 125 Special Attack; outside of Ferrothorn and the pink eggs, almost nothing in OU can take a Life Orb-boosted Draco Meteor from Hydreigon. Even 252/0 Scizor and Skarmory lose at least 50% of their health to Draco Meteor. With Earthquake, Hydreigon no longer needs to rely on the inaccurate Focus Blast to 2HKO specially defensive Heatran, as it now OHKOes Heatran; specially defensive Jirachi is also swiftly 2HKOed. Outrage destroys physically bulky foes such as Reuniclus and Jellicent, while Fire Blast nets easy OHKOs on the likes of Ferrothorn, Forretress, and any other Steel-type that tries to switch in.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hydreigon's EV spread lets it hit hard and maintain a good Speed stat. 104 Attack EVs give it the ability to 2HKO Blissey and Chansey with Outrage after Stealth Rock; a layer of Spikes is also needed for the latter. 164 Speed EVs and a Speed-boosting nature allow Hydreigon to outpace all neutral-natured base 100 Speed foes, and the remaining 240 EVs are poured into Hydreigon's other offense and its best stat. Crunch can be used as a secondary STAB move to hit Reuniclus, Jellicent, and Espeon hard, but all three are destroyed by Outrage, so it isn't advised. Taunt can prevent walls such as Blissey and Chansey from recovering health or inflicting status on Hydreigon, shutting them down so that Hydreigon can have an easier time sweeping. Focus Blast can be used over Earthquake if the chance of OHKOing non-Chople Berry Tyranitar is important for your team, but standard 252/0 Tyranitar is always 2HKOed by Earthquake anyway. An alternative, speedier spread can be used by taking away Special Attack EVs; 192 and 228 Speed EVs give Hydreigon the ability to check Jolly Lucario and Jolly Gliscor, respectively, but the drop in power is very noticeable and undesirable.</p>

    <p>Hydreigon is a great addition to any team as it can easily counter many threats in the OU metagame, such as Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, Lucario, Gliscor, Blissey, Heatran, and Rotom-W. Even with its decent Speed, Hydreigon is still outsped by key threats such as Infernape, Terrakion, Latias, and Latios. Mienshao, Infernape, and Terrakion all outspeed Hydreigon as well and easily finish it with their powerful STAB Fighting-type attacks. Jellicent and Hydreigon share excellent type synergy, resisting all elemental types the other is weak to; additionally, Jellicent can easily take care of Terrakion and Infernape. Gengar is also a great partner as it can come in freely on Fighting-type moves aimed at Hydreigon, as well as taking out Latias and Latios.</p>

    <p>Opposing Dragon-types, such as Latias, Latios, and Salamence, can outspeed and destroy Hydreigon; Mamoswine can check them with its priority Ice Shard. Air Balloon Heatran is a decent check to this set as it can take any move with its Air Balloon intact and cripple Hydreigon with Dragon Pulse or Hidden Power Ice; Rotom-W and Air Balloon Terrakion make for good switch-ins to Heatran. After Hydreigon has taken out many walls and has finished breaking through the opponent's core, amazing mixed sweepers such as Infernape or Salamence can continue the destruction.</p>
  2. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,388
    Just FYI, you need the Quality Control tag.

    Anyway, I think you should highlight the reasons this should be used over MixMence (i.e. Easier time with Jellicent). I'm not too sure about the EVs, but I'll go test this out on PO and get back to you on that.

    Also, I think Lum Berry should be mentioned, so you can take Jellicent's Will-O-Wisp once without being screwed.
  3. blunder

    blunder

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    573
    How Do I add the QC Tag?

    firecape edit: I did it for you.
  4. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    GO to edit, then advanced, then change the tag in the upper left hand corner.
  5. blunder

    blunder

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    573
  6. Danilo

    Danilo
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,254
    Why make this a mixed set? Why not just an all out attacker set? Here's what I would do

    name: All Out Attacker
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Earth Power
    move 3: Fire Blast
    move 4: U-turn
    evs: 252 Spe / 252 Spa / 4 HP
    item: Life Orb
    There's really no need to run Earthquake, when Hydreigon has access to Earth Power. As you mentioned, Crunch really only hits Espeon. Things like Gengar can just Focus Blast Hydreigon, so it doesn't really have to worry about Crunch. Yeah, that's it...
  7. blunder

    blunder

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    573
    But the Focus of this Set is For Hydreigon to be able to take things on even after it gets a -2 From Draco Meteor. I will Still try your set though, and thanks for the suggestion
  8. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,048
    http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/hydreigon
  9. Danilo

    Danilo
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,254
    Well, I guess my suggestion seems silly now. I understand this set a little better now. Didn't realize that it was supposed to hit hard after a -2 spa drop... Slash in U-turn with Crunch!
  10. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,388
    Since you now don't have Life Orb listed as the only item, I think the set should just be called "Mixed" instead of "Mixed Life Orb".
  11. blunder

    blunder

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    573
    Oh Right, Thanks

    So Do I just wait for one of the GP or QC guys to look this over and approve or disapprove of this?
  12. Danilo

    Danilo
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,254
    QC will approve or disapprove first. If you get 3 approvals, then the gp guys will do a bunch of checks.
  13. LighTz911

    LighTz911

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    233
    What's the point of having max speed? I'm pretty sure almost no one uses max speed on a Hyreigon and I think you should use slightly less to out speed positive 90s or something.
  14. Asbestospoison

    Asbestospoison

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    In a Sandstorm, Jolly Terrakion can switch in without being OHKO'd by Draco Meteor and proceed to outspeed and OHKO with CC, and if you're running lum berry/expert belt, Terrakion doesn't need a sandstorm to survive long enough. You might want to add this to the counters.
  15. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,388
    92 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Earthquake vs 4 HP/0 Def Terrakion: 72.22% - 84.57%

    Terrakion can't switch in on an Earthquake, so it isn't a very reliable counter. It does make a solid check, though, since it can switch in on anything but Earthquake in a sandstorm (and gets an Attack boost from Justified if it comes in on Crunch) and can go for the Close Combat on Hydreigon.
  16. blunder

    blunder

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    573
    I use max speed for Haxorus and in Additional Comments I put a nature option of Rash

    I have had Terrakion in the counters list, but thanks for that little section on sandstorm and how it can take almost everything
  17. LighTz911

    LighTz911

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    233
    Adamant is the main slash for everything. Jolly is only mentioned in Choice Scarf, which Adamant or not, you lose, and Swords Dance, which no one uses. I believe a slightly slower spread with more power is more ideal for this set.
  18. Asbestospoison

    Asbestospoison

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    True, but Terrakion will always outspeed (assuming it has a jolly nature, which it almost always does), and if it has an air balloon, Hydreigion is even more screwed.
    Also, this is just a thought, but maybe list Gengar as a teammate? Gengar can take Fighting attacks for Hydreigon, and Hydreigon is resistant to the Dark type attacks, ghost type attacks, and the psychic type attacks which would hurt Gengar. It could also (Maybe, I'm too lazy to do calcs) take care of Latias and Latios, if they lack Psyschock (Highly unlikely, for latios at least). Like I said, this is just a thought, ignore it if there are any problems w/ it.
  19. Danilo

    Danilo
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,254
    You have to be high to switch in Terrakion on Hydreigon.
  20. Asbestospoison

    Asbestospoison

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    I'm prolly high right now anyways.
    Like it's been said, it's not a hard counter or anything, since it would lose up to max 72% of it's HP from Draco Meteor in a sandstorm, about 82% max from earthquake, and be OHKO'd by DM otherwise(assuming Hydreigon is running life orb), but it's a decent check as it can switch in safely on Fire Blast, Crunch (Which would also raise Terrakion's attack), and if it has an air balloon, it can switch in on earthquake too. I think it at least deserves a little more mention, other than what's already there.
  21. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 22, 2011
    Messages:
    689
    First off, the nature should be Mild. Hydreigon doesn't need max speed. I think Expert Belt is AC material. Since you're splitting EVs, Hydreigon will need all the power it can get from LO. I don't know about Lum Berry either. This set doesn't really mind getting burned with strong attacks such as Draco Meteor and Fire Blast at its disposal. Getting para'd isnt a big deal either since this set shouldn't be played like a mixmence, but rather a lure for other special attackers.

    I think Outrage might deserve a slash (perhaps over EQ?). The most important thing about this set imo is catching those special walls off guard. With your spread, Dmeteor + Crunch vs Chansey/Blissey won't kill, meaning your opponent will be able to adjust. A D-Meteor + Outrage combo has a good chance off killing the blobs (40% - 47% followed by 53% - 63%).
  22. blunder

    blunder

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    573
    Thanks for the Tip, But with Outrage Heatran Walls this Set-



    And does anyone have an Idea for an alternate spread, because that would be greatly appreciated
  23. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,111
    I don't know about using Outrage on this set. Lati@s can't switch in, but they can fodder something off and have an easy revenge kill. Also, 248/0 Scizor takes a piddly 27.7%-32.7% and wrecks you with BP, U-turn, or Superpower.

    Terrakion doesn't like coming in on Outrage, taking over half, but it's actually weaker than Draco Meteor and he obviously crushes you with Close Combat.

    Yeah, I'd just say no to Outrage.
  24. Mynism

    Mynism

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    309
    Definitely slash Outrage with Uturn/Crunch. It is where it belongs and I can definitely see it working with EQ/Fire blast, especially to abuse it to the maximum since DM really hit only once.
  25. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,626
    Hi.

    Thunder, I can't really make a decision on this set because you seem pretty unsure and undecided on the set itself. The OP lists options like Lum Berry and Expert Belt, but no specific fixings around these items. By slashing U-turn with Crunch, you are also essentially making your set a duplicate of the standard set on-site. Please solidify your set and be prepared to defend it against offending suggestions.

    What I would do is emphasize Hydreigon's strengths over similar Dragons. Hyderigon is, besides Flygon, the only other Dragon-type that is able to go mixed AND switch in easily due to an immunity to (Toxic) Spikes. Because it's commonly known for special attacking, a mixed set can theoretically be a surprise, but please be sure to outline why your should use options like Earthquake and not Earth Power, or even Taunt. Do this, and the ball will be in your court.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)