[QC Ready 0/3] Excadrill

[GrislyBear]

I think there should be some more information about good team mates. The only support for Excadrill that was mentioned was smooth rock Tyranitar and Hippowdon. What are good options for removing Excadrill's checks and counters? What has type synergy for easier switches?

 

[Flamer]

IMO, Mold Breaker is by far the superior ability. With the weather nerf Excadrill not only requires TTar/Hippowdon with Smooth rock to be alive when its ready to sweep but also has to be able to sweep in 8 turns. Mold Breaker allows Excadrill to annihilate Gengar and Rotom-W on the switch. Shadow claw sounds alright atm over SD, beating spinblockers such as Sitrus/Harvest Trevenant is a priority for him and Excadrill doesnt really have the speed outside sand to take advantage of the boost. Therefore I'm asking to change Mold Breaker to the first slash and make Shadow Claw the first slash over Swords Dance.

EDIT: Ahhh my apologies, already done. Nice Job!!!

 

[Yanni]

For the spinning set + 3 Attacks. What about an Assault Vest? I'm using this set at present:

<p>Excadrill @ Assault Vest<br />
Ability: Mold Breaker<br />
EVs: 240 HP / 196 Atk / 72 Spe<br />
Adamant Nature<br />
- Rapid Spin<br />
- Earthquake<br />
- Shadow Claw<br />
- Rock Slide</p>

Equipped with an Assault Vest, 0 SpD EVs and 240HP Life Orb Gengar 2HKOs (76.48 - 90.73%) with Focus Blast and 3HKOs with Shadow Ball (38.24 - 45.36%) while Excadrill has a guaranteed (206.1 - 242.74%) OHKO in return with Mold Breaker. Since Mega Gengar does less damage than Life Orb Gengar that is a fairly potent defense as it is guaranteed to kill their spin blocker.

Rotom-W while not a true Excadrill counter is seeing heavy usage at present it similarly fails to OHKO with an Assault Vest. Even if it went Modest with 252 SpA it only does 84.08 - 98.81% vs. 0 SpD requiring a Specs to OHKO. Most Rotom at present are running Bulky with less SpA than that and no Specs thus are guaranteed to 2HKO. Once again, thanks to Mold Breaker Excadrill savages Rotom-W with Earthquake doing 107.89 - 126.64% to the Bold 252 HP / 228 Def ChestoRest lifted from this gens C&C.

Let me just check Aegislash...

Quiet Aegislash hits for 36.34 - 42.75% with Shadow Ball and 39.19 - 46.31% with Sacred Sword. Both are 3HKOs.

I'm fairly certain that the EVs I use are imperfect as well it could be bolstered even further but Assault Vest makes spinning Excadrill tank hits really well. It might dislike losing Leftovers recovery and the longevity they can provide but being able to come out on top of every spin blocker while leaving SpD EVs free to be allocated in other slots is quite potent.

Thoughts on its viability?

 

[alexwolf]

Hmm i haven't though about Assault Vest and it is a good idea Yanni. Your EV spread however could use some tweaking. For one, you are better of putting those 240 HP EVs to SpD as Excadrill's HP stat is much bigger than its SpD and so it benefits more from investment in SpD. The lack of SD is a real downer though as you no longer gain the ability to get on top of Pokemon such as Leech Seed + Protect Ferrothorn and Skarmory actually beats you easily, whereas with Leftovers and SD you could at least pose a threat after a few boosts, forcing Skarmory to stop setting up hazards and phaze you. I think that an AC mention on the bulky set would be the place for Assault Vest.

 

[andreprestes]

I really liked the Assault Vest idea! But I don't know about the EVs... Any other options?

Is 252 Atk / 252 Spd viable?

 

[Fuzznip]

Okay, Assault Vest Excadrill with Mold Breaker has now become my favourite Exca set to use. Excellent suggestion. It's actually so freaking good at spinning away hazards, laughing at Aegislash and Gengar. It's really bulky on the special side too, to my surprise. You have to include it. I ran:

-Rapid Spin
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Shadow Claw

With a spread of 80 HP/176 Atk/252 SpD and an Adamant nature. It was just a random spread that I wanted to try, packing special bulk and offensive pressure in one. I had good success with it. The EV spread can change easily though. I haven't looked into the best spread yet.

 

[McBlue]

Here is a set I have found good results with. This set can also run a adamant nature if you want a lose a little speed for power.

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Rock Slide
- Brick Break

This allows Excadrill to act as a revenge killer. With scarf and mold breaker he can hit fast and hard, taking out all rotoms (besides flying) and anything with levitate with a stab EQ. He also outspeeds +1 speed blaziken as a note.

 

[JamesHardenBeard]

How viable is an assault vest/mold breaker Excadrill? Would you invest in special defense to further his bulk against special attacks, or defense so give him bulk against both attacking types?

 

[Style_Dota]

How viable is an assault vest/mold breaker Excadrill? Would you invest in special defense to further his bulk against special attacks, or defense so give him bulk against both attacking types?

They're discussing it right now in the thread...so it is pretty viable.

Anyway, after running a few offensive calcs, and it doesn't seem that there is any spread that guarantees a OHKO on anything important defensively, so I ran a few defensive calcs and got this spread:

160 HP / 96 Atk / 252 SpD Adamant Nature

With this spread, Excadrill hits a magic leftovers number of 401. It also gets 4HKOed by Bold Rotom-W's Hydro Pump (Holy shit this thing is awesome), as well as having the ability to still OHKO any offensive Rotom-W variant (while taking a hit) and 2HKOng Bold Rotom.

 

[alexwolf]

They're discussing it right now in the thread...so it is pretty viable.

Anyway, after running a few offensive calcs, and it doesn't seem that there is any spread that guarantees a OHKO on anything important defensively, so I ran a few defensive calcs and got this spread:

160 HP / 96 Atk / 252 SpD Adamant Nature

With this spread, Excadrill hits a magic leftovers number of 401. It also gets 4HKOed by Bold Rotom-W's Hydro Pump (Holy shit this thing is awesome), as well as having the ability to still OHKO any offensive Rotom-W variant (while taking a hit) and 2HKOng Bold Rotom.

- 0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 160 HP / 252 SpD Excadrill: 254-302 (63.34 - 75.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. +1 160 HP / 252 SpD Excadrill: 170-204 (42.39 - 50.87%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As i said again, it really depends on what ability we decide to slash first. If we go with Mold Breaker (seems the most possible option to me), then probably no Speed investment is needed. Bulky Excadrill also should have enough juice to 2HKO Trevenant with Shadow Claw unboosted or OHKO it after a boost. 128 Atk EVs with an Adamant nature are needed to 2HKO max HP Trevenant with Lefties, while 48 EVs with an Adamant nature are needed to OHKO max HP Trevenant after a Swords Dance boost. I think that going with the 48 Atk EVs (or 60 for the Lefties number as Mike said) is the best option, as Swords Dance will be slashed first on the moveset, giving to Excadrill the option to always get past Trevenant. So here is the spread and the moveset for the bulky Excadrill set:

Excadrill @ Leftovers / Assault Vest
Ability: Mold Breaker / Sand Rush
EVs: 160 HP / 96 Atk / 252 SpD
Nature: Adamant
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance / Rock Slide
- Shadow Claw

AC mention of 128 HP / 128 Atk / 252 SpD with Adamant if one wants to use Rock Slide instead of Swords Dance (Assault Vest) to always 2HKO Trevenant with Shadow Claw. Also, we should mention a more speedy bulky spread for Sand Rush variants. 52 Spe EVs allow Excadrill to outspeed Choice Scarf Timid Rotom-W and Adamant Mega Charizard X after a Dragon Dance under sand, without sacrificing a lot of bulk, so it seems as a good Speed benchmark for Sand Rush variants. To outspeed Jolly +1 Mega Charizard X, 140 Spe EVs are needed.

 

[Style_Dota]

Out speeding rotom with sand rush seems like a moot point. Why outspeed something you can't really do anything against anyway? To guarantee a spin? Seems like a waste of investment.

 

[andreprestes]

Adamant 80 HP/176 Atk/252 SpD spread doesn't hit (harder) anything important?

 

[Fuzznip]

Can bulky SD and Assault Vest be separate sets please? Both run different movesets, abilities, and EV spreads and use different playstyles. I personally don't really like bulky SD to begin with, but Assault Vest needs to be an independent set in my opinion.

 

[alexwolf]

Out speeding rotom with sand rush seems like a moot point. Why outspeed something you can't really do anything against anyway? To guarantee a spin? Seems like a waste of investment.

Which is why i mention Mega Char X too, one of the most dangerous speed boosting threats.

 

[Shroomisaur]

I've tried Assault Vest Exca, and it's a surprisingly effective bulky spinner to say the least, although Vest vs. Lefties is going to be an issue. Anyway, I feel that Scarf Exca hasn't gotten the consideration it deserves yet:

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant / Jolly
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
- Shadow Claw

This thing reaches 412 Speed with adamant, outspeeding and OHKOing all unboosted Pokemon up to 138 base including Greninja, Talonflame, (Mega)Gengar, and Mega Manectric.

If you run Jolly you hit 453, and additionally outpace Mega Alakazam & Aerodactyl, Scarf Rotom, +2 Timid Gorebyss, and everything up to +1 neutral base 100s (Salamence, Volcarona, Charizard X).

 

[Fuzznip]

I'm not really against Choice Scarf Excadrill, only because of Mold Breaker, which keeps its only STAB attack from being easily avoided. Also a clutch Rapid Spin with that Speed could be useful in certain scenarios.

 

[AdmiredFob]

Why are we still using level 100 numbers when everything in the game is scaled to 50 in every situation possible (except no rules battling)?

 

[GrislyBear]

Why are we still using level 100 numbers when everything in the game is scaled to 50 in every situation possible (except no rules battling)?

Wrong place to ask but the answer is because Smogon bases it's battles on what is possible not what is likely (read this in a uc thread I think)

 

[McGrrr]

I've tried Assault Vest Exca, and it's a surprisingly effective bulky spinner to say the least, although Vest vs. Lefties is going to be an issue. Anyway, I feel that Scarf Exca hasn't gotten the consideration it deserves yet:

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant / Jolly
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
- Shadow Claw

This thing reaches 412 Speed with adamant, outspeeding and OHKOing all unboosted Pokemon up to 138 base including Greninja, Talonflame, (Mega)Gengar, and Mega Manectric.

If you run Jolly you hit 453, and additionally outpace Mega Alakazam & Aerodactyl, Scarf Rotom, +2 Timid Gorebyss, and everything up to +1 neutral base 100s (Salamence, Volcarona, Charizard X).

This is definitely viable, but I question the need for Shadow Claw (presumably, purely for Trevenant and Gorgeist?). I think Brick Break is superior, because it gives you the versatility to break screens, and also avoids locking in to Earthquake against say... Tyranitar, Mega Kangaskhan, 2/3 HP Mega Lucario etc. (I mean, if it breaks Multiscale on the switch, it's done its job).

I also think that Adamant and Jolly are different propositions, and should be used differently. Max speed is fine for Jolly (though you could make the same argument for 302 v 300), but 412 (275) doesn't really beat anything that 405 (270) doesn't equally beat... It might not seem much, but those 5 speed points should be redistributed (for example, with 252 Att / 232 Spe / 24 SpD, Excadrill has a 6.25% chance of surviving normal Gengar's Focus Blast, which is infinitely superior to 0%!)*.

Edit: *I know people here readily grasp at strawmen, so to clarify... I'm not suggesting that a few SpD EVs are suddenly a solution to Focus Blast. This was to illustrate my point that a few EVs can make a difference.

 

[Shurtugal]

I feel a dedicated Spin / SR set should be mentioned. The set should look like this:

Excadrill @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Trait: Mold Breaker
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head / Rock Slide
- Earthquake

AC, or maybe even slashed, should be Chople Berry. Chople allows it to beat Lucario, MegaGar, Rak, Keldy, etc. with ease. It should be noted being able to lure Gengar allows it to spin easier. A Scarf set also warrants mentioning since EQ is really spammable and is a really reliable, good revenge killer. (Note: Scarf Exca wants Earthquake / Iron Head / Rock Slide / Rapid Spin or X-Scissor; Jolly should be the primary nature as well)

 

[Fuzznip]

Stealth Rock is a 5th gen tutor move if I'm not mistaken, so that set is illegal pre-Pokebank.

 

[Shroomisaur]

This is definitely viable, but I question the need for Shadow Claw (presumably, purely for Trevenant and Gorgeist?). I think Brick Break is superior, because it gives you the versatility to break screens, and also avoids locking in to Earthquake against say... Tyranitar, Mega Kangaskhan, 2/3 HP Mega Lucario etc. (I mean, if it breaks Multiscale on the switch, it's done its job).

I also think that Adamant and Jolly are different propositions, and should be used differently. Max speed is fine for Jolly (though you could make the same argument for 302 v 300), but 412 (275) doesn't really beat anything that 405 (270) doesn't equally beat... It might not seem much, but those 5 speed points should be redistributed (for example, with 252 Att / 232 Spe / 24 SpD, Excadrill has a 6.25% chance of surviving normal Gengar's Focus Blast, which is infinitely superior to 0%!)*.

Edit: *I know people here readily grasp at strawmen, so to clarify... I'm not suggesting that a few SpD EVs are suddenly a solution to Focus Blast. This was to illustrate my point that a few EVs can make a difference.

Yes, Shadow Claw is there for Trev/Gourgeist, but also for Gengar (not every Gengar is Mega, after all). I've never considered Brick Break in its place but that sounds like an interesting option. As for those EVs... I actually run exactly that spread, since as you said the extra speed isn't useful! I just changed it to a 252/252 because it's simpler and in general dropping a few speed points seems frowned upon.

I feel a dedicated Spin / SR set should be mentioned. The set should look like this:

Excadrill @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Trait: Mold Breaker
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head / Rock Slide
- Earthquake

AC, or maybe even slashed, should be Chople Berry. Chople allows it to beat Lucario, MegaGar, Rak, Keldy, etc. with ease. It should be noted being able to lure Gengar allows it to spin easier. A Scarf set also warrants mentioning since EQ is really spammable and is a really reliable, good revenge killer. (Note: Scarf Exca wants Earthquake / Iron Head / Rock Slide / Rapid Spin or X-Scissor; Jolly should be the primary nature as well)

Yeah I just posted about Scarf Excadrill myself, but... here's the problem with your suggestions: Iron Head is illegal, Stealth Rock is illegal, and Chople Berry isn't available yet either afaik. Sorry, I think you've been playing a little too much Pokebank!

 

[McGrrr]

Yes, Shadow Claw is there for Trev/Gourgeist, but also for Gengar (not every Gengar is Mega, after all). I've never considered Brick Break in its place but that sounds like an interesting option.

Since Sand Rush is redundant with Choice Scarf, Mold Breaker Earthquake beats all Gengar ;)

It's an easy thing to overlook.

Therefore, Shadow Claw is really just for:

| 21 | Trevenant | 8.55612% | 26890 | 8.642% | 20470 | 8.373% |
| 65 | Gourgeist-Super | 2.35876% | 6700 | 2.153% | 5357 | 2.191% |
| 126 | Gourgeist-Small | 0.37055% | 962 | 0.309% | 814 | 0.333% |
| 127 | Gourgeist | 0.36612% | 1177 | 0.378% | 950 | 0.389% |
| 154 | Gourgeist-Large | 0.19304% | 584 | 0.188% | 480 | 0.196% |

 

[Kejmur]

I think I would also mention Choice Band set. With Mold Breaker it's not easy to switch into this thing (although I admit Sand Rush has some merit as well here if you are ready to back it up with Sandstorm support), while you have the ability to smash things hard. I would go with Adamant, standard Max Atk/Max Speed (although I think bulkier spread with much less speed is an option as well just to abuse those great resistances Excadrill typing provides). Calculations include Adamant nature only:

Max HP/Max Def Impish Hippowdon vs Adamant CB Earthquake
42.38%-50.00%

Taking into account how bulky Hippowdon is on physical side, I would say this hurts. Alot.

Max HP/Max Def Bold Slowbro vs Adamant CB Earthquake
47.21%-55.84% (Clean 2HKO with SR up)

Max HP/Max Def Positive Nature Trevenant vs Adamant CB Shadow Claw
59.89%-70.59%

Max HP Neutral Nature Conkeldurr vs Adamant CB Earthquake
69.57%-82.13%

248 HP Positive Nature MegaScizor vs Adamant CB Earthquake
54.36%-64.53%

Same MegaScizor, but neutral nature
60.17%-70.93%

Max HP/Max Def Positive Nature Forretress vs Adamant CB Earthquake
44.35%-52.54% (75.48% for 2HKO with SR up counting Leftovers)

Standard Support Garchomp vs Adamant CB Earthquake
56.43%-66.67% (Clean 2HKO)

Max HP Neutral Nature Shield Form Aegislash vs Adamant CB Earthquake
120.37%-141.36%

Etc. Etc.

Anyway I think this set deserve at least OO mention, especially taking into account that metagame is slower than previous one, his great typing to easily switch in with good amount of resistances and only Spikes being the hazards which he find annoying to deal with (and with Defog less common anyway). Unfortunately Gliscor and Skarmory are still a problem for this guy, but if you don't run those - switching to this guy may be hard.

 

[Jukain]

ok i'm just gonna say that bulky sd excadrill is garbage from my testing

i'll give assault vest a set though