Quagsire (Analysis)

Dezza Laa's set works really well for me.


Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)

- Stockpile
- Recover
- Swagger
- Scald

I especially love Swagger on this set, the opponent usually ends up killing itself, and doesn't do any more damage to Quagsire than normal because of Unaware.
 
try this set:
name: bulky ass
moves:amnesia,curse,earthquake,waterfall/aquatail.
EV's:252 atk, 128 def,128 spdef.
item:leftys
ability:unaware
nature:adament
try it, it works!
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
These sets honestly belong in Other Options, and shouldnt be considered main viable options. Particularly, the previous set looks like it hasn't been thought out due to hastily-made EVs.
 

Birkal

We have the technology.
is a Top Artistis a Top CAP Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
These sets honestly belong in Other Options, and shouldnt be considered main viable options. Particularly, the previous set looks like it hasn't been thought out due to hastily-made EVs.
I would disagree. I run a set nearly identical to stephenjm's. With that bulk, it can easily survive Outrages and set up some Stockpiles. At 3+ / 3+, even Grass-type moves have trouble OHKOing it. Swagger is an excellent way to boost up your opponents so they eventually kill themselves or are forced to switch. I personally run Ice Beam instead of Scald because I run Toxic Spikes and have problems with Dragons. I would not overlook that set; it can be an absolute monster.
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
I would disagree. I run a set nearly identical to stephenjm's. With that bulk, it can easily survive Outrages and set up some Stockpiles. At 3+ / 3+, even Grass-type moves have trouble OHKOing it. Swagger is an excellent way to boost up your opponents so they eventually kill themselves or are forced to switch. I personally run Ice Beam instead of Scald because I run Toxic Spikes and have problems with Dragons. I would not overlook that set; it can be an absolute monster.
I'll give credit to the Stockpile sets for being able to defeat my teams thrice. It's just that the sets were presented in an odd fashion. Particularly, I still disagree completely with 44lvlc0's idea.
 
I'll give credit to the Stockpile sets for being able to defeat my teams thrice. It's just that the sets were presented in an odd fashion. Particularly, I still disagree completely with 44lvlc0's idea.
Sorry if I didn't explain it well enough, it was really late at the time and I could barely stay awake. The set isn't mine, it was thought of by Dezza Laa and it is on his team, TriNitroToluene which has been very successful. Here is his analysis on it:



Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)

- Stockpile
- Recover
- Swagger
- Scald

This is personally my favourite Pokemon on this team. He functions as a counter to so many physical threats and finds himself sweeping a lot of Pokemon, quite a few times the most. His great defences and ability to further boost it means that he is an all round tank. The crux of Quagsire is in his ability, Unaware. Ignoring all boosts means that he it's hard to muscle through him. He takes all physical hits like they're nothing and shrugs it off. When working with Quagsire you're never going to get enough power to sweep a team. So I thought about letting the opponent killing himself.

Stockpile is the basis for this set to work. Before this strategy can work, you need the ability to take hits a bit better. Stockpile can do this to an extent, boosting both wings of his defence to +3. From there Recover gives me a viable form of recovery and longevity, meaning that even if critical hits come into account Quagsire still won't go down. Swagger is the move that is doing all the damage. With Unaware, boosting the opponents attack to +6 is not a problem for me. However for the opponent, no matter how little their attack stat is, their due to at least severely cripple themselves. Many physical sweepers find themselves killing themselves rather than me killing them. Scald is there to prevent Taunters and allows me to handle physical threats even better, as well as crippling opponents. While it does measly damage to most Pokemon, it still is annoying for the opponent having to deal with a burn and confusion.

Quagsire handles many threats as well, handling stat upper's with ease. Baton Pass teams find themselves with nothing to do and the ever deadly Gorebyss Baton Pass strategy won't work. He handles threats such as Shell Smash Cloyster, who even with the critical hits, won't come close to 3HKOing. He also handles the likes of Swords Dance Garchomp, Specially Defensive Scizor, Dragon Dance Tyranitar, Swords Dance Excadrill etc. Pokemon who also decide to invest in defense instead of attack find themselves unable to break through Quagsire as he laughingly mock them. With luck he is even able to handle Ferrothorn and Breloom with confusion hax, but it is a last resort kind of thing.
 
Sorry if I didn't explain it well enough, it was really late at the time and I could barely stay awake. The set isn't mine, it was thought of by Dezza Laa and it is on his team, TriNitroToluene which has been very successful. Here is his analysis on it:



Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)

- Stockpile
- Recover
- Swagger
- Scald

This is personally my favourite Pokemon on this team. He functions as a counter to so many physical threats and finds himself sweeping a lot of Pokemon, quite a few times the most. His great defences and ability to further boost it means that he is an all round tank. The crux of Quagsire is in his ability, Unaware. Ignoring all boosts means that he it's hard to muscle through him. He takes all physical hits like they're nothing and shrugs it off. When working with Quagsire you're never going to get enough power to sweep a team. So I thought about letting the opponent killing himself.

Stockpile is the basis for this set to work. Before this strategy can work, you need the ability to take hits a bit better. Stockpile can do this to an extent, boosting both wings of his defence to +3. From there Recover gives me a viable form of recovery and longevity, meaning that even if critical hits come into account Quagsire still won't go down. Swagger is the move that is doing all the damage. With Unaware, boosting the opponents attack to +6 is not a problem for me. However for the opponent, no matter how little their attack stat is, their due to at least severely cripple themselves. Many physical sweepers find themselves killing themselves rather than me killing them. Scald is there to prevent Taunters and allows me to handle physical threats even better, as well as crippling opponents. While it does measly damage to most Pokemon, it still is annoying for the opponent having to deal with a burn and confusion.

Quagsire handles many threats as well, handling stat upper's with ease. Baton Pass teams find themselves with nothing to do and the ever deadly Gorebyss Baton Pass strategy won't work. He handles threats such as Shell Smash Cloyster, who even with the critical hits, won't come close to 3HKOing. He also handles the likes of Swords Dance Garchomp, Specially Defensive Scizor, Dragon Dance Tyranitar, Swords Dance Excadrill etc. Pokemon who also decide to invest in defense instead of attack find themselves unable to break through Quagsire as he laughingly mock them. With luck he is even able to handle Ferrothorn and Breloom with confusion hax, but it is a last resort kind of thing.
This actually seems like a perfectly viable set. Quagsire is arguably one of the best users of Swagger in the game because of Unaware, and after a few Stockpiles, there's not much that many Sweepers could do. Only thing, why use a Relaxed nature? Wouldn't Bold be better than Relaxed in order to retain max Defense without losing Speed?
 
This actually seems like a perfectly viable set. Quagsire is arguably one of the best users of Swagger in the game because of Unaware, and after a few Stockpiles, there's not much that many Sweepers could do. Only thing, why use a Relaxed nature? Wouldn't Bold be better than Relaxed in order to retain max Defense without losing Speed?
I really have no idea, I was wondering that myself. But surely Bold would be a better option.
 

Don Honchkrorleone

Happy Qwilfish the nightmare
is a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
Ok. Now that I' feeling better to use the pc, I'll express my opinion about the Stockpile set. It requires prediction and skill, but it's amazing. I've been using theis for a while, and it's a great set overall. However, as much as I'd like to put it on the op, I'm just the writer. I bet my ass that the QC people won't approve it. So I'll just put this set in the OP if the QC people approve it, which they'll not IMO. But it's a pretty annoying set.
 
However, Quagsire has something that the Gastrodon: Unaware.</p>
I lol'd (and still am) after I read that sentence. It might be a good idea to change it somehow, but a hall of fame for humorous mistakes would be good for that one.

Edit: Also, what would a good replacement to Leftovers on the first set be because of item clause? I assume Whimsicott (another member of my team) uses it better than Quagsire.
 
I can't for a minute think why the QC people wouldn't approve Stockpile Physically Defensive Quagsire. It's his most effective set and most viable competitively by far.

Quagsire should always be running max Def because that allows him to counter almost every physical threat in the game with Swagger and Scald and is his best competitive niche. He is an insanely effective physical wall in the game with instant Recovery, Defence boosting moves, Burn, and increasing Confusion damage that no other physical wall has access to. The rare physical Grass types are the only ones Quagsire can't counter. Excadrill, Terrakion, Conkeldurr, Dragonite, Salamence, Scizor, Mienshao, you can keep naming the best physical attackers in the game, they cannot hope to get past physically defensive Quagsire. Breloom and SD Virizion are the only top tier physical threats he doesnt counter. This guy walls more stuff than Skarmory and Gliscor combined. He not only walls, he outright counters them to a bloody pulp.

Quagsire's x4 weakness to Grass means that Curse sets never have time and lack the power to do enough damage or the special bulk to last.

Honestly I am extremely surprised that a Scald, Swagger set has not even been mentioned when it is its best and most viable niche in OU. Especially when Haze (read it again: HAZE!) was mentioned when Quagsire has Unaware! Physically Defensive should not be last in the analysis, it should be head and shoulders above the other two sets which, imo, are not even competitively viable in OU.

P.S. OK rereading my post again I was probably a bit too dramatic but man was I pissed off that Quagsire got such shitty sets in the analysis... I'm sorry but Physically Defensive has to be no.1 for Quagsire, it's not a matter of opinion at this stage, it is a fact that many, many people will back up and calcs will back up. Please update the analysis accordingly and also credit Dezza La for coming up with an awesome set. Sorry for sounding rude but it had to be done.
 
I really have no idea, I was wondering that myself. But surely Bold would be a better option.
Quagsire has, what, 35 base Speed?
It's not out-running much, so it's a better option to use Relaxed, so that you won't reduce the damage which Scald will do.

edit: shit, nvm. I was thinking of Impish. Yeah, I guess Bold would be better than Relaxed.
 

bugmaniacbob

Was fun while it lasted
is an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Hmm not sure what the position of this analysis is

It's had GP checks from 3 different GP members, but two of them were from before those members were admitted to the GP team

so uh

REMOVE
ADD
COMMENT


[Overview]

<p>In a metagame dominated by boosting sweepers, a brave Pokemon stands out as one of the best counters to almost all of them: Quagsire. Dream World brought him the fantastic ability Unaware, and Quagsire can make excellent use of it, especially since there is very little competition in that area (Clefable has Magic Guard, and Bibarel and Swoobat are useless). Despite losing a Water-type immunity by forgoing Water Absorb for Unaware, he becomes one of the best checks to Swords Dance Excadrill, Shell Smash Cloyster,(comma) and Swords Dance Landorus in the game. However, if you think that Quagsire's only new trick is Unaware, think again. He also got Scald as a bonus in this generation, which allows him to cripple many physical sweepers thanks to its high burn chance (although Quagsire's Special Attack is admittedly substandard).</p>

<p>However, all is not sunshine for Quagsire. His fellow Water / Ground friend Gastrodon got an update to his Storm Drain ability, making him a better choice for walling opposing Water-type Pokemon. One of his best moves, Encore, was severely reduced in power, and with Ferrothorn completely shutting Quagsire down, it's hard to find room for Quagsire in your team. Quagsire is still mortally afraid of Grass-type moves and Taunt in general. However, do not be discouraged by these flaws, as Quagsire is still a good Pokemon to use, especially if you have a weakness to boosting sweepers.</p>

[SET]
name: Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Recover
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Waterfall / Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
ability: Unaware
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[Set comments]

<p>Quagsire can boost his mediocre Attack as well as his respectable Defense with Curse. There is one main reason to use Curse Quagsire over Gastrodon or Swampert: Unaware. This allows Quagsire to set up Curse in the face of sweepers that can't damage it much, since boosting alongside Quagsire will have no effect. As before, Recover is necessary to keep Quagsire alive for as long as possible. Earthquake is his main damaging move, and attains super effective coverage against Excadrill, Jirachi, Tyranitar, Heatran, Metagross, Magnezone,(comma) and others (just watch out for Air Balloon users). His last move should be chosen depending on whether you want another reliable STAB move (Waterfall) or the best coverage possible (Stone Edge).</p>

[Additional comments]

<p>Generally the best course of action for the EVs is to maximize HP and Special Defense, while the leftovers can go in Defense. There are other options for the last slot; Aqua Tail is stronger than Waterfall but has less accuracy, Body Slam can paralyze the foe with some luck, and Brick Break is a super effective move against Ferrothorn and stronger against Tyranitar, and also breaks screens. Ice Punch, while a good move, is unfortunately illegal with Unaware. Rest is also an option over Recover if status is annoying.</p>

<p>Grass-types are still an obstacle for this set. Status effects like poison and burn are also a pain for Quagsire. Celebi is thus a good partner for Quagsire, as it can remove status via Aromatherapy or Heal Bell while also resisting the Grass-type attacks that Quagsire hates. Forretress is also a good teammate, as it can spin away dangerous Toxic Spikes, and also resists Grass-type attacks. This set enjoys entry hazards because Quagsire's Attack is quite substandard; Forretress, mentioned above, can also set up all three entry hazards.</p>

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Scald
move 2: Recover
move 3: Yawn / Toxic
move 4: Earthquake
item: Leftovers
ability: Unaware
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[Set comments]

<p>The goal of this set is to counter countering the potent special sweepers without Grass-type moves that also plague the metagame,(comma) such as Calm Mind Reuniclus, Calm Mind Latios, and Nasty Plot Lucario. Quagsire, while often seen as a physically defensive Pokemon, has enough bulk to pull off a specially defensive set. However, one must not forget that Quagsire's cousin Gastrodon can also pull off the same set with better Special Defence Defense. However, Quagsire has something that Gastrodon doesn't (again): Unaware.</p>

<p>Scald is great with its high burn chance on this set, capable of potentially crippling most physical and even some mixed and special sweepers. Recover keeps Quagsire alive, and is a must on this set. Assuming the opponent isn't afflicted with a status condition yet, Yawn can either phaze or put the foe to sleep, while Toxic severely manhandles bulky walls such as Jellicent and Cresselia. Earthquake adds some coverage to Scald and is good to take out Nasty Plot Lucario and other fearsome Pokemon that are weak to Ground.</p>

[Additional comments]

<p>The EVs are focused on special walling. Basically, 252 EVs in HP and 252 EVs in Special Defense lets Quagsire sponge special hits quite well, considering Quagsire's base 65 Special Defense stat. The remaining EVs are put in the into Defense. Quagsire can run Ice Beam on this set to deal with Grass-types as well as special attacking specially inclined Dragon-types with an immunity to Ground-type moves, such as Latios and Hydreigon, but coming from 65 base Special Attack, Ice Beam won't hurt enough barring a 4x weakness.

<p>Even with full investment in his Special Defense, STAB Grass-type moves will severely hurt, if not OHKO Quagsire. With that in mind, any Pokemon that resist and has have a super effective move against Grass-types and resist their STAB moves are good partners for Quagsire. Volcarona gets a special mention because it can come in on Grass-type moves aimed at Quagsire, while Quagsire can take the Rock-type moves that Volcarona hates with despair. Pokemon that can set up entry hazards, especially those with a Fire-type weakness such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress,(comma) also pair well with Quagsire because of his natural ability to force switches.</p>

[SET]
name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Scald
move 2: Recover
move 3: Yawn / Toxic
move 4: Earthquake
item: Leftovers
ability: Unaware
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[Set comments]

<p>With Unaware, Quagsire becomes one of the best counters to some of the most dangerous physical sweepers in the OU metagame, such as Cloyster, Excadrill, Scrafty, and Landorus. Scald is a staple on this set, due to its high 30% chance of burning the foe, and with Quagsire's moderately high Defense stat, it will take physical hits easily if the foe is burned. Recover is another great move for reliable recovery, lengthening Quagsire's lifespan. In the third slot, Yawn can force some switches, while Toxic can cripple bulky Pokemon such as Jellicent, while also threatening the special attackers that do not mind being burned. Finally, in the last slot, Earthquake is a good secondary STAB move that adds some coverage.</p>

[Additional comments]

<p>There are several alternate alternative moves that can fill the last slot. Safeguard protects Quagsire and its comrades against status. Ice Beam helps against Gliscor, Landorus, and a variety of Dragon- and Grass-types, but again, it won't hurt much coming from Quagsire's mediocre Special Attack. Stone Edge hurts Volcarona more than Scald. Finally, Stockpile can turn Quagsire into an unbreakable wall if the foe doesn't have a Grass-type move. </p>

<p>The EVs listed give Quagsire maximum physical bulk, while the remaining 4 EVs are put in Special Defense. Alternatively, you can move these EVs to Quagsire's Attack or Special Attack for more power, or to his Speed to Speed tie with Reuniclus with a neutral nature. This also allows Quagsire to outspeed opposing Quagsire that do not do the same.</p>

<p>Grass types that don't (apostrophe) fear status, like Celebi, Shaymin, and Roserade, are also excellent counters. Again, Volcarona is a good partner for Quagsire, as it resists Quagsire's sole weakness to Grass-type attacks while Quagsire resists Volcarona's weakness to Rock-type attacks. Thus, Volcarona can switch into Grass-type attacks aimed at Quagsire and then either proceed to kill the Grass-types with its powerful atttacks or set up with Quiver Dance. Generally speaking, a Pokemon that benefits from Quagsire’s resistances and immunities also pairs well with him, like Skarmory, who can survive the Grass-type moves that plague Quagsire, and in return, Quagsire can switch in on the Fire- and Electric-type attacks aimed at Skarmory. If Yawn is selected, entry hazards are welcome since Yawn will force many switches.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>On the Curse set, Quagsire can also invest in his Defense by using a 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def spread with an Impish nature, which allows him to take on physical threats more easily. Quagsire has some interesting options under his belt. Counter works because Quagsire can take a physical hit and then heal off the damage taken with Recover. Safeguard can protect Quagsire and his teammates against random status. While Haze resets all stat changes, it is redundant with Unaware. Mist prevents the foe from lowering one of Quagsire's or the rest of the team's stats, but is very situational. Rest + Sleep Talk is good if you are worried about status. Encore, formerly a good option, got nerfed to last only three turns, and is no longer viable. Stockpile can make Quagsire an unbreakable wall if the opponent lacks a Grass-type move.</p>

<p>Acid Spray lowers the foe's Special Defense by 2 stages, but should only be used with Water Absorb since Unaware ignores that drop. Quagsire also has Surf, Ice Beam and Earth Power, but with his mediocre 65 Special Attack, the only special move that should really be used is Scald. Ice Punch is great against Dragon and Grass-types, but is illegal with Unaware. Water Absorb is a good ability, but Quagsire is outclassed by Gastrodon at absorbing Water-type moves. Finally, Lum Berry cures Quagsire of harmful status, but the loss of Leftovers is significant. </p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Grass-type Pokemon are a thorn in Quagsire's foot, in particular those that have Poison as their secondary type, such as Roserade, Amoonguss and Venusaur who are immune to Toxic. Grass-types like Lilligant, Shaymin, Nasty Plot Shiftry, and Celebi, that don't fear the burn from Scald, are also great counters. Physical Grass-types such as Breloom, Leafeon, Abomasnow and Ferrothorn can smack Quagsire with a powerful Seed Bomb, Leaf Blade, Wood Hammer, or Power Whip,(comma) respectively, but they can’t switch into Scald due to its high burn rate (Breloom is an exception if it's already poisoned by Toxic Orb). Other Pokemon that often use Grass-type moves also fare well against Quagsire. Haxorus is the only non Grass-type physical sweeper that Quagsire hates because Mold Breaker can bypass Unaware, but it can't switch into Scald. Quagsire will often use status moves more than attacking moves, so if a Pokemon can use Taunt and isn’t weak to Scald or Earthquake, it can be considered as a Quagsire check. Good examples include Whimsicott, Azelf, Tornadus, and Thundurus.</p>


Since this analysis has changed since the first time I checked it, I've re-checked the whole thing, and I'm pretty sure the GP checks caught more or less everything, except for the specially defensive set, which is newer I suppose, and has only had one check.

So, put simply:

My previous check + this check counts as GP check #1



And I'm retroactively stamping Calm Pokemaster's + NixHex's checks as GP check #2



So I think that's everything done here
 
Wouldnt eviolite dusclops be a good counter too? Will o wisp, pain split taunt and night shade would totally wall quagsire
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top