Quagsire (Gen 4, full revamp)*

Komodo

Huff
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Status: done, ready for upload
(High five!)
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/quagsire

  • Move "Rest Talk" to Other Options as Quagsire now has Recover.
  • Moved "Counter" to Other Options.
  • Remove "Uber Support" set (somebody can do this at the Uber forum).
[Overview]
<p>Quagsire has great defensive typing and an excellent support movepool. What sets Quagsire apart from Milotic and Slowbro is its ability, Water Absorb. Having Water Absorb allows you to take on threats like Choice Band Azumarill and Swords Dance Feraligatr without the fear of boosted Water-type moves.</p>

<p>Another advantage over its fellow Water-types is that Quagsire has an immunity to Electric-type moves, making it a good counter to Choiced Magneton and Raikou locked into Thunderbolt. Quagsire also has access to Encore, giving it the advantage of being able to ruin anything that attempts to set up or use supporting moves. This makes up for Quagsire's lack of offensive power and prevents it from becoming complete set up bait.</p>

[SET]
name: Bulky Water
move 1: Recover
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Punch / Stone Edge
move 4: Toxic / Encore / Yawn
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

[Set Comments]
<p>Quagsire makes an excellent defensive Pokemon due to its great typing and ability. With its Water / Ground typing, Quagsire has resistances to Fire-, Poison-, Rock-, and Steel-type moves, immunities to Electric- and Water-type moves (thanks to Water Absorb), and a lone weakness to Grass-type moves.</p>

<p>With Recover and its high HP and Defense stats, Quagsire is able to stall opponents and take repeated hits without trouble. During this time, Quagsire can support its teammates and cripple opponents with one of its great support options. Earthquake gives reliable STAB, while Ice Punch and Stone Edge hit Flying-types and give good type coverage.</p>

[Additional Comments]
<p>The EVs listed focus on Quagsire's higher defensive stat. 252 EVs in HP gives you the highest possible bulk, while max Defense EVs are a must, allowing you to survive powerful physical assaults with little trouble. The remaining EVs are placed into Attack, giving Quagsire's attacks a small boost in power.</p>

<p>Quagsire has a major problem when faced with Grass-type opponents, as they are able to exploit its 4x weakness and OHKO it. Flying-types, such as Altaria, are great partners for Quagsire as they resist Grass-type moves. Altaria also has the ability Natural Cure, allowing it to absorb status moves and be cured upon switching out. Moltres is another option to pair with Quagsire, as it can switch into Grass attacks with ease and threaten to OHKO the Grass-types with its STAB Fire- and Flying-type moves. Its 4x Stealth Rock weakness should be taken into account, however.</p>

[SET]
name: Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Recover
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Ice Punch / Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

[Set Comments]
<p>Quagsire has access to the overlooked stat boosting move, Curse, which allows it to boost its average Attack and Defense stats. A base 65 Special Defense stat doesn't look too impressive, but with immunities to the commonly used Electric- and Water-type moves and only one weakness to Grass attacks, Quagsire can be tough to take down after a few boosts from Curse. With a few boosts from Curse, Quagsire becomes a fearsome tank, with its STAB boosted Earthquake denting anything that doesn't have a resistance or immunity to the move.</p>

<p>Curse is a given on this set to boost Quagsire's Attack and Defense. Recover allows Quagsire to restore much of its HP in a single turn. Earthquake gives Quagsire a powerful STAB move to play with, while the final slot gives Quagsire a move to hit Flying-types who will switch into its Earthquake.</p>

[Additional Comments]
<p>The EVs on this set focus on Quagsire's Special Defense stat. 252 HP EVs give Quagsire a large amount of bulk on both spectrums and enables it to take hits with little problems. Max Special Defense is a must, allowing you to survive most neutral special attacks aimed at Quagsire. The remaining EVs are placed into Attack to give Quagsire a small boost in power behind its attacks.</p>

<p>Again, Grass-types are an obstacle for Quagsire, meaning Flying- and Fire-types, such as Altaria and Moltres, are needed to remove these threats before Quagsire is safe to set up. Weezing is a problem for this set as well, since Will-O-Wisp can cripple Quagsire and render all physical moves worthless. To ensure this doesn't happen, Houndoom is a great addition to your team, being able to switch in on Will-O-Wisp and net a Flash Fire boost, OHKOing Weezing with Fire Blast instantly.</p>

<p>Drapion makes an excellent partner for Quagsire as it can absorb Toxic Spikes set up by the opponent while being able to set up its own, aiding Quagsire by crippling walls such as Slowbro and Tangrowth. Drapion's typing also makes it an ideal switch-in to most Grass-types, though it should beware of Venusaur's Earthquake.</p>

[Team Options]
<p>Quagsire has a major issue with Grass-types; support from Fire- and Flying-types is vital to ensure Quagsire's survival in battle. Quagsire has major problems with Venusaur and Tangrowth as due their high Defense stats, they take little damage from Ice Punch. Both of these threats are able to immobilize Quagsire with Sleep Powder or KO it with Power Whip. For this reason, using Arcanine is recommended, who takes minor damage from Power Whip and can counter with STAB Fire attacks. Altaria is another great partner for Quagsire as it has a 4x resistance to Grass-type moves. It also has the ability to rid itself of status effects upon switching out. Altaria has access to a great support movepool as well, consisting of moves like Heal Bell, which helps remove poison and burn status that Quagsire has been affected by, and Safeguard, which prevents the opponent from inflicting status in the first place.</p>

<p>Quagsire appreciates support from Toxic Spikes to wear down walls it cannot damage, such as Slowbro and Milotic. Drapion is an excellent candidate for this, with its great defensive stats, resistance to Grass-type moves, and the ability to hit Grass-type Pokemon super effectively with Poison Jab or Cross Poison.</p>

<p>Moltres and enables it to take hits with little problems. Max Special Defense is a must, allowing you to survive most neutral special attacks aimed at Quagsire. The remaining EVs are placed into Attack to give Quagsire a small boost in power behind its has gives great defensive synergy with Quagsire. Quagsire is able to switch into Water- and Rock-type moves aimed at Moltres, while Moltres is able to switch into Grass-type moves aimed at Quagsire. However, Moltres must be cautious switching in when Stealth Rock is on the field, so it's best to include a Rapid Spinner if you decide to use Moltres.</p>

[Optional Changes]
<p>Quagsire has a variety of options available to it. Counter is an option to surprise powerful physical attackers, who fail to KO Quagsire. Body Slam is available if you wish to abuse the 30% paralysis rate, which could be helpful for crippling faster opponents. Finally, Quagsire is one of the few Pokemon with the move Haze, but while it may be helpful for removing stat boosts, Quagsire is outclassed by Pokemon such as Weezing and Milotic in this respect. You may choose to use Surf on the Bulky Water set as it hits Rhyperior and Donphan harder than Ice Punch, although you would need to use a Relaxed nature, which would give Slowbro the advantage in Speed.</p>

<p>If status moves are a major problem for your team, you may choose to run a set of Curse, Waterfall, Rest, and Sleep Talk. This allows you to set up and remain healthy against opponents like Weezing, who rely on status-inducing moves to wear down Quagsire. Waterfall is given as the attacking move of choice, as it gives you great STAB and nothing is immune to it outside Pokemon with Water Absorb and Shedinja.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Grass-type Pokemon are great counters for Quagsire, as they are able to hit it for 4x super effective damage while also having a resistance to Quagsire's STAB moves: Earthquake and Waterfall. Venusaur is the best counter to any Quagsire set; Sleep Powder and Power Whip both cripple Quagsire beyond repair. Tangrowth makes another great counter to all sets as it takes little damage from Ice Punch while being able to KO Quagsire with Power Whip.</p>

<p>Outside of Grass-types, bulky Water-types cause problems as Quagsire is unable to deal great amounts of damage with any of its moves. Blastoise and Milotic are great options as they are able to switch in on any of its moves and proceed to poison it with Toxic or hit it with Hidden Power Gras, with Milotic being the better of the two as it can Recover until Quagsire is unable to survive the damage from poison.</p>

<p>Weezing and Mismagius make great counters to Quagsire as they can both switch into Earthquake due to their Levitate abilities and burn it with Will-O-Wisp. When Quagsire's Attack stat is reduced from burn status, frail sweepers such as Alakazam and Absol can switch in and set up.</p>

<p>Quagsire can be beaten by users of Encore, Jumpluff and Clefable being the most reliable. They can switch in and use Encore as Quagsire uses Curse or Recover, forcing Quagsire to switch out. This also gives you a free turn to set up Leech Seed with Jumpluff or Stealth Rock with Clefable. Clefable also has the advantage of being able to switch in on Toxic as Magic Guard will prevent damage from harmful status effects.</p>

<p>Pokemon with Trick can spell doom for Quagsire. Rotom is a great choice here as it is immune to Earthquake. This allows you to switch to a Pokemon that doesn't mind the move Quagsire is using and set up for free as Quagsire switches out. Clefable is another excellent option as it is able to switch its Toxic or Flame Orb and cripple Quagsire for the remainder of the match.</p>
 

jc104

Humblest person ever
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
[SET]
name: Bulky Water
move 1: Recover
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Beam / Stone Edge
move 4: Yawn / Toxic
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Relaxed
evs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Quagsire makes an excellent defensive Pokemon due to its great typing alongside its high HP and Defense stats. Due to its Water/Ground typing, Quagsire has four resistances against Fire-, Poison-, Rock- and Steel-type moves, and immunities to Electric- and Water-type moves (thanks to Water Absorb and its ground typing) and a lone weakness to Grass-type moves.</p> (you make it sound like it resists each type 4 times)

<p>Recover is a must on this set, allowing Quagsire to reliably restore its respectable HP stat. Earthquake is suggested in the second slot to give Quagsire a strong physical STAB move, also allowing it to dent Fire-, Rock-, and Steel-types. Ice Beam and Stone Edge are listed to damage Flying-types that switch into Earthquake; (or full stop) Ice Beam is the more reliable option as it allows Quagsire to hit Grass-types, which would otherwise wall it. The final slot gives Quagsire the opportunity to support its teammates: Yawn is a great move to force switches or put a potential counter to sleep, while Toxic allows you to wear down walls that Quagsire is unable to deal significant amounts of damage to.</p>

<p>The EVs listed focus on Quagsire's higher defensive stat. 212 EVs in HP allow you to hit its highest Leftovers number, while max Defense is a must, allowing you to survive powerful physical assaults with little trouble. The remaining EVs are placed into Attack, giving Earthquake a small boost in power. You may also place the remaining EVs into Special Attack if you wish to do more damage with Ice Beam.</p>

<p>Quagsire has a major problem when faced with Grass-type opponents, as they are usually able to exploit its 4x weakness and OHKO it. Flying-types such as Altaria are great partners for Quagsire as they resist Grass-type moves. Altaria also has the ability Natural Cure, allowing you to absorb status moves and be cured upon switching out. Moltres is another option to pair with Quagsire as it can switch in with ease, providing Stealth Rock isn't in play, and threaten to KO most Grass-types with its STAB Fire- and Flying-type moves.</p>

[SET]
name: Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Recover
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Ice Punch / Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Careful
evs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Quagsire has access to an often overlooked stat boosting move, Curse, allowing it to boost its above average Attack and Defense stats. A base 65 Special Defense stat doesn't look too impressive, but with immunities to the commonly used Electric- and Water-type moves, Quagsire can be tough to take down after a few boosts from Curse.</p>

<P>Curse is a given on this set to boost Quagsire's Attack and Defense stats to great levels, at Underused standards at least. Recover allows Quagsire to restore much of its reasonable HP stat in a single turn. Earthquake gives Quagsire a powerful STAB move to play with, hitting Fire-, Rock-, and Steel-types super effectively. The final slot gives Quagsire a move to hit Flying-types that will switch into Quagsire's Earthquake. Ice Punch allows you to hit Grass-types super effectively, also hitting Altaria harder than Stone Edge. Using Ice Punch alongside Earthquake provides near perfect type coverage, only being resisted by Articuno (Articuno doesn’t resist ice punch, although it is likely to take little damage) and Moltres in UU. Stone Edge is listed as the secondary option to hit Moltres, and also Articuno, who would take little from your attacks, for 4x super effective damage.</p>

<p>The EVs on this set focus on Quagsire's Special Defense stat. 212 HP EVs give Quagsire a reliable number for Leftovers recovery. Max Special Defense is a must, allowing you to survive neutral moves aimed at Quagsire. The remaining EVs are placed into Attack to give Quagsire some power behind its attacking moves.</p>

<p>Again, Grass-types are an obstacle for Quagsire, meaning Flying- and Fire-types such as Altaria and Moltres are needed to remove these threats before Quagsire is safe to set up.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Quagsire has a major issue with Grass-types, support from Fire- and Flying-types is vital to ensure Quagsire's survival in battle. Altaria is a great partner for Quagsire as it has a 4x resistance to Grass-type moves and it also has the ability to rid itself of status effects upon switching out. Altaria has access to a great support movepool: moves such as Heal Bell help remove poison and sleep status from Quagsire, and it also has Safeguard available to prevent the opponent inflicting status in the first place.</p>

<p>Quagsire appreciates support from Toxic Spikes to wear down walls it cannot damage, such as, for example, Slowbro and Milotic. Drapion is an excellent candidate for this, with its great defensive stats, resistance to Grass-type moves, and the ability to hit Grass-type Pokemon super effectively with Poison Jab or Cross Poison.

[Other Options]

<p>Quagsire has a variety of options available to it. Among these is Encore, which could be helpful on the Curse set as the opponent may be locked into a stat boosting or support move, giving you time to set up. Counter is a viable option to surprise powerful physical attackers, who fail to KO Quagsire. Body Slam is an option if you wish to abuse the 30% paralysis rate, which could be helpful for crippling faster opponents. Finally, Quagsire is one of the few Pokemon with the move Haze; while it may be helpful removing stat boosts, Quagsire is outclassed in this role by Pokemon like Weezing.</p>

[EVs]

<p>Quagsire should always be running at least 212 EVs in HP; this give it a reliable Leftovers recovery each turn. You may choose to run 252 EVs, although this doesn't give significant advantage. Quagsire should always be using 252 EVs in the defensive stat of choice to give it the best possible durability. The remaining EVs should be placed into Attack to give Earthquake and other physical attacks more of a kick. If using Ice Beam on the Bulky Water set you may choose to place these into Special Attack, giving you more power against Altaria and Grass-types.

[Opinion]

<p>Quagsire has great defensive typing and an excellent supporting movepool; access to Recover gives Quagsire a distinct advantage over Swampert, while Water Absorb, higher Attack, and higher Defense stats give it the edge over Gastrodon. (you need to rephrase: water absorb is an advantage over Swampert. Secondly, this analysis is aimed at UU, where Swampert is banned)</p>

[Counters]

<p>Grass-type Pokemon are great counters for Quagsire as they are able to hit it for 4x super effective damage while also having a resistance to Quagsire's main STAB move, Earthquake. Many Grass-types have little fear of Ice Beam due to reasonably high Special Defense stats and the low Special Attack stat Quagsire has. Blastoise makes another great counter to Quagsire as it takes little damage from any of its attacks while it is able to poison Quagsire with Toxic and stall it until Recover is unable to restore the damage from poison.</p>

Changes/suggestions in Bold. Removals in red. Be careful about stringing sentences together with commas; you either need a colon or semicolon, or even a full stop to break them into separate sentences.
 

Komodo

Huff
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I fixed some of your errors, however a few of them are incorrect. You always use a hyphen when you have the word "type" or "typing" after the name of a type. "Water/Ground-typing" is correct the way it is.

Another one I didn't fix is where you add "and its ground typing" inside the bracket. The part about Water Absorb only refers to the Water resistance, not the Electric. There are a few more, but they don't need pointing out.

Thanks for the other fixes though.
 

jc104

Humblest person ever
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
I see what you mean about my correction. However, your sentence does make it sound a little as though water absorb gives and electric immunity. I suggest you rephrase as follows:

"Thanks to its Water/Ground typing and its ability, water absorb, Quagsire has two immunities -- to Electric- and Water-type moves, as well as resistances to 4 attacking types: Fire, Rock, Steel and Poison. This bings with it only one weakness - to Grass-type moves"

Or something like that.

The thing about "Water/Ground typing" is correct. The hyphen is only necessary when both words together combine to form the adjective. You are confusing it with the following scenario: "Ground- and Water-type moves" Edit: sorry

This is fairly irrelevant, however. The most important thing is the sentences attached with commas. This really is very wrong.
 

Komodo

Huff
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I just talked with a moderator of this forum on IRC and he said it is fine the way it is. Thanks for the previous post :)

Ah. Continually editing your post is making it difficult to keep track of =/

Edit - I'm going to leave this for someone else, you are making this confusing. I didn't refer the the Ground/Water thing with the moderator.
 

jc104

Humblest person ever
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Sorry. I shouldn't do that. You should refer the Ground/Water thing to the moderator anyway.
 
Status: EDIT ME!

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/quagsire

  • Remove "Rest Talk" set as Quagsire now has Recover.
  • Moved "Counter" to Other Options
  • Remove "Uber Support" set (unless somebody can prove this is useful)
[SET]
name: Bulky Water
move 1: Recover
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Beam / Stone Edge
move 4: Yawn / Toxic
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Relaxed
evs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Quagsire makes an excellent defensive Pokemon due to its great typing alongside its high HP and Defense stats. With its Water/Ground typing, Quagsire has resistances against Fire-, Poison-, Rock- and Steel-type moves, immunities to Electric- and Water-type moves (thanks to Water Absorb), and a lone weakness to Grass-type moves.</p>

<p>Recover is a must on this set, allowing Quagsire to reliably restore its respectable HP. Earthquake is suggested in the second slot to give Quagsire a strong physical STAB move, allowing it to dent Fire-, Rock-, and Steel-types. Ice Beam and Stone Edge are listed to damage Flying-types that will switch into Earthquake. Ice Beam is the more reliable option as it allows Quagsire to hit Grass-types, who would otherwise wall it. The final slot gives Quagsire the opportunity to support its teammates; Yawn is a great move to force switches or put a potential counter to sleep, while Toxic allows you to wear down walls that Quagsire is unable to deal significant amounts of damage to, such as Slowbro and Uxie.</p>

<p>The EVs listed focus on Quagsire's higher defensive stat. 212 EVs in HP allow you to hit its highest Leftovers number, while max Defense EVs are a must, allowing you to survive powerful physical assaults with little trouble. The remaining EVs are placed into Attack, giving Earthquake a small boost in power. You may also place the remaining EVs into Special Attack if you wish to do more damage with Ice Beam.</p>

Mention that you can go with an Impish nature if you select Stone Edge.

<p>Quagsire has a major problem when faced with Grass-type opponents, as they are able to exploit its 4x weakness and OHKO it. Flying-types, such as Altaria, are great partners for Quagsire as they resist Grass-type moves. Altaria also has the ability Natural Cure, allowing it to absorb status moves and be cured upon switching out. Moltres is another option to pair with Quagsire as it can switch into Grass attacks with ease and threaten to OHKO the Grass-types with its STAB Fire- and Flying-type moves. Its 4x Stealth Rock weakness should be taken into account, though.</p>

[SET]
name: Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Recover
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Ice Punch / Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
ability: Water Absorb
nature: Careful
evs: 212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Quagsire has access to the overlooked stat boosting move, Curse, which allows it to boost its above average Attack and Defense stats. A base 65 Special Defense stat doesn't look too impressive, but with immunities to the commonly used Electric- and Water-type moves, Quagsire can be tough to take down after a few boosts from Curse.</p>

<P>Curse is a given on this set to boost Quagsire's Attack and Defense stats to great levels, in Underused standards at least. Recover allows Quagsire to restore most of its HP stat in a single turn. Earthquake gives Quagsire a powerful STAB move to play with, hitting Fire-, Rock-, and Steel-types super effectively. The final slot gives Quagsire a move to hit Flying-types that will switch into Quagsire's Earthquake. Ice Punch allows you to hit Grass-types super effectively, also hitting Altaria harder than Stone Edge. Using Ice Punch alongside Earthquake provides near perfect type coverage, only being resisted by Moltres in UU. Stone Edge is listed as the secondary option, allowing you to hit Articuno and Moltres for 4x super effective damage.</p>

<p>The EVs on this set focus on Quagsire's Special Defense stat. 212 HP EVs give Quagsire a reliable number for Leftovers recovery. Max Special Defense is a must, allowing you to survive neutral moves aimed at Quagsire. The remaining EVs are placed into Attack to give Quagsire some power behind its attacking moves.</p>

<p>Again, Grass-types are an obstacle for Quagsire, meaning Flying- and Fire-types, such as Altaria and Moltres, are needed to remove these threats before Quagsire is safe to set up.</p>

There are much more obstacles you should mention. Toxic and Will-O-Wisp coming from the likes of Slowbro and Weezing, respectively, will instantly drain Quagsire's effectiveness. If the opponent has set up two layers of Toxic Spikes, that's even worse. Venusaur can absorb them and also resists Grass moves by 4x. On the other hand, if you set up Toxic Spikes with Drapion (who resists Grass moves) or someone else, Quagsire will have a much easier time setting up and stalling, as most of its counters, such as Slowbro or Tangrowth, will now be crippled by poison.

You need to include RestTalk + Curse Quagsire, because it can remove its fear from Toxic or Will-O-Wisp that can shut it down. Recover is not always going to be better than RestTalk, so that's something you should consider. Waterfall also provides fantastic coverage.

[Team Options]

<p>Quagsire has a major issue with Grass-types, support from Fire- and Flying-types is vital to ensure Quagsire's survival in battle. Altaria is a great partner for Quagsire as it has a 4x resistance to Grass-type moves. It also has the ability to rid itself of status effects upon switching out. Altaria has access to a great support movepool, moves such as Heal Bell help remove poison and burn status from Quagsire, and it also has Safeguard available to prevent the opponent inflicting status in the first place.</p>

<p>Quagsire appreciates support from Toxic Spikes to wear down walls it cannot damage, such as Slowbro and Milotic. Drapion is an excellent candidate for this, with its great defensive stats, resistance to Grass-type moves, and the ability to hit Grass-type Pokemon super effectively with Poison Jab or Cross Poison.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Quagsire has a variety of options available to it, among these is Encore, which could be helpful on the Curse set as the opponent may be locked into a stat boosting or support move, giving you time to set up. Counter is a viable option to surprise powerful physical attackers, who fail to KO Quagsire. Body Slam is an option if you wish to abuse the 30% paralysis rate, which could be helpful for crippling faster opponents. Finally, Quagsire is one of the few Pokemon with the move Haze, while it may be helpful removing stat boosts, Quagsire is outclassed by Pokemon such as Weezing and Milotic.</p>

[EVs]

<p>Quagsire should always be running at least 212 EVs in HP. This gives it a reliable Leftovers recovery each turn. You may choose to run 252 EVs, although this doesn't give a significant advantage. Quagsire should always be using 252 EVs in the defensive stat of choice to give it the most durability as possible. The remaining EVs should be placed into Attack to give physical moves more of a kick. If using Ice Beam on the Bulky Water set, you may choose to place these into Special Attack, giving you more power against Altaria and Grass-types.

[Opinion]

<p>Quagsire has great defensive typing and an excellent support movepool; access to Recover and Water Absorb gives Quagsire a distinct advantage over Swampert, while higher Attack and Defense stats give it the edge over Gastrodon.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Grass-type Pokemon are great counters for Quagsire, as they are able to hit it for 4x super effective damage while also having a resistance to Quagsire's STAB moves. Many Grass-types have little fear of Ice Beam due to their reasonably high Special Defense stats and the low Special Attack stat Quagsire has. Blastoise makes another great counter to Quagsire as it takes little damage from any of its attacks while it is able to poison Quagsire with Toxic and stall it until Recover is unable to restore the damage from poison.</p>

There are more counters to Quagsire I believe. Milotic can easily rub off a lot of the moves Quagsire uses and can poison it with Toxic. Mismagius and Weezing can burn it with Will-O-Wisp. Jumpluff or any other Encore user faster than Quagsire will spell doom across its face. Trick will instantly make Quagsire worthless. These are just some things off the top of my head.

Great work September! :)
 

Age of Kings

of the Ash Legion
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Would Venusaur deserve mention on team options or other? (In particular a special variant since it sadly lacks physical poison moves but can hurt enemy Venusaur and Tangrowth harder.) It also resists Grass 4x, and might be granted opportunities to set up something. It also has the added bonus of being able to beat Milotic if you so wish it to. It's also immune to Poison and absorbs those Toxic Spikes.
 

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
A couple of quirks and tweaks to work on:

-252 hp / 252 Def / 6 Atk EV spread would be best for Quagsire. It needs all the physical bulk it needs. Unless there's a significant thing about those 44 Atk EVs, then I think it should be dumped in the Defense EVs.

-you need to point out what makes quagsire a different wall than slowbro and milotic. why choose it over the them? What are Quagsire's niches? Water Absorb is one of them and its a pretty neat move I would say to handle stuff like CB Azumarill.

-ice punch over ice beam would be best so you actually smack venusaur harder. ice beam is just not needed, take advantage of its decent attack stat to dish out some good damage with ice punch. this allows you to run a bold nature rather than relaxed, so you outpace opposing slowbro.

-mention venusaur specifically for team options. its the best quagsire check i'd say. with godo bulk from the physical spectrum, it can take ice punch then threaten you with sleep powder or power whip. moltres can't freely switch in on sleep powder. i'd probably add altaria as a partner or sleep talk arcanine to beat venusaur. and hey, fire- and water- cores are good.

-for the curse set, you need to watch out for status, especially will-o-wisp. add houndoom as a possible partner as it checks weezing pretty well.

-i agree with fuzznip, broaden the counters section. there is a lot that counters it.

Other than that, good job on this, I might come back to edit after you implement these suggestions
 

Xia

On porpoise
is a Contributor Alumnus
Quagsire as it can switch into Grass attacks with ease and threaten to OHKO the Grass-types with its Fire- and STAB [since Fire isn't boosted by STAB] Flying-type moves. Its 4x Stealth Rock weakness should be taken into account, however.</p>
 

Komodo

Huff
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
How isn't Fire boosted by STAB? This line is talking about Moltres.

Edit, I'll work on all the other fixes today, I doubt it's worth checking again until I change everything.
 
Why delete the Ubers set? Quagsire is ranked almost as highly in Ubers (72) as in UU (64) as of December, so I think it certainly deserves a set that shows it can function in Ubers, where people might not normally think to use it. I don't see why you're so quick to dismiss it as useless without (apparently) even bothering to test it or get input about it. It was obviously put in the analysis for a reason...

Also have you tested Encore on the standard set? From my experience facing it, it seems more dependable than Yawn against sweepers that would seek to set up on Quagsire, as many of them will simply Substitute in your face, expecting Yawn or Toxic. It's also the best option against Curse users, for the most part, as many of them have ResTalk. You should test it to see if deserves a slash, and if it should get the first/second/third slash and all that jazz.
 

Xia

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Why delete the Ubers set? Quagsire is ranked almost as highly in Ubers (72) as in UU (64) as of December, so I think it certainly deserves a set that shows it can function in Ubers, where people might not normally think to use it. I don't see why you're so quick to dismiss it as useless without (apparently) even bothering to test it or get input about it. It was obviously put in the analysis for a reason...
It may have been removed because there are going to be separate Uber and OU analyses for Pokemon in lower tiers. Personally, I would have removed it as well and let someone with Ubers experience take it (or posted an Uber Analysis in the Uber subforum which included that set).
 

Komodo

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Why delete the Ubers set? Quagsire is ranked almost as highly in Ubers (72) as in UU (64) as of December, so I think it certainly deserves a set that shows it can function in Ubers, where people might not normally think to use it. I don't see why you're so quick to dismiss it as useless without (apparently) even bothering to test it or get input about it. It was obviously put in the analysis for a reason...
Repeating what Xia already mentioned, this forum is for UU analyses only. If you check out the Uber forum they are working on things such as Weavile there (which is normally OU). The uber analysis should be done on the other forum, probably by someone more experienced in the tier.

Also have you tested Encore on the standard set? From my experience facing it, it seems more dependable than Yawn against sweepers that would seek to set up on Quagsire, as many of them will simply Substitute in your face, expecting Yawn or Toxic. It's also the best option against Curse users, for the most part, as many of them have ResTalk. You should test it to see if deserves a slash, and if it should get the first/second/third slash and all that jazz.
The thing with Quagsire is that most of the time it will lure in Grass-types which will attack it right away. Most of the Pokemon that actually "set up" on Quagsire can defeat it without setup anyway(from experience, they usually attack). Mostly being Mismagius (which can 2HKO with no boosts and life orb Shadow Ball) and Venusaur being able to OHKO you with Power Whip or Energy Ball. Besides that, most Pokemon will try to status Quagsire so using Encore won't be a big help. Most of the opponents I have used Encore on will attack you right away or switch to a status user/Grass-type. Myself, I believe Encore should be left to Other Options.

Edit - As franky supports this, I'll work it in somewhere. Thanks for sharing your opinion :)
 

franky

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I forgot about encore bro, place it somewhere on the support set. It could be useful when facing defensive walls. Encore is a powerful move and its not meant for other options. Give it a slash if not, then at least give it a solid sentence or two on the support set. other than that, this looks pretty good now.
 

Komodo

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Thanks franky (hey, I love how intelligent all of your posts sound). I guess the bulk of this is complete, ready for grammar changes now.
 
Okay that's fine about the Uber thing. The "Full Revamp" title suggests it would stay in, and you said you removed because it wasn't useful, so that's why I was questioning the move. :)

Did you test Encore? You need to test things before you assume they're only good for OO. I think you'll find it more useful in practice than in theorymon. Again, it really helps against pokemon like Curse users, Feraligatr, Altaria (if you're using Stone Edge), and walls in general.

I'll give a full edit sometime soon.
 

Komodo

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Did you test Encore? You need to test things before you assume they're only good for OO. I think you'll find it more useful in practice than in theorymon. Again, it really helps against pokemon like Curse users, Feraligatr, Altaria (if you're using Stone Edge), and walls in general.
I have used Encore a few times, it caught a Swords Dance Feraligatr one time. Probably the only time it worked for me personally. Most of the other times I just had Venusaur switch-ins. I see the move is effective, just not as often as we'd like. It deserves a mention though :)
 
I have used Encore a few times, it caught a Swords Dance Feraligatr one time. Probably the only time it worked for me personally. Most of the other times I just had Venusaur switch-ins. I see the move is effective, just not as often as we'd like. It deserves a mention though :)
Well obviously Quagsire isn't going to do ANYTHING with Venusaur around (Yawn and Toxic aren't useful against it either), so you can't really say it hurts Encore, since it pretty much fucks anything Quag wants to do besides Ice Punch, which is a one-time thing. Any team with Quagsire on it needs to have an effective way of dealing with Venusaur, since it's so popular, or Quag will look like a bitch no matter what moveset it has :P
 
I'm not sure Water Absorb is as important as you say it is in Opinion section. Milotic and Slowbro don't even really fear physical water attacks; what they really hate is boosted Normal attacks. The main advantages to using Quagsire are STAB Earthquake, Encore, and Electric immunity. Water Asorb is a nice bonus, but not as important as you claim.

Surf needs to be mentioned somewhere (probably in Other Options) to get the OHKO on Rhyperior. Quagsire is a decent-ish check to it with STAB Surf, but has a harder time when it has to rely on the 2-3HKO Earthquake (even less against bulky Rhyperior).
 

Komodo

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[EVs]

<p>Quagsire should always be running 252 EVs in HP, allowing it to reach its best defensive potential. Quagsire should always be using 252 EVs in the defensive stat of choice to give it the most durability as possible as well. The remaining EVs should be placed into Attack to give its physical moves more of a kick.</p>
 

Erazor

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Using Ice Punch alongside Earthquake provides near perfect type coverage, only being resisted by Moltres in UU
Ice Punch hits Moltres for neutral. so it's completely unresisted except by Shedinja('coz Bronzong isn't UU)
 

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