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OU Quagsire

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by TRC, Jan 9, 2014.

  1. TRC

    TRC regal
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    [​IMG]
    Overview
    ########
    While Quagsire is yet another example of a bulky Water-type, it does have a few advantages that put it above the rest. Most notably, its typing grants it only one weakness, Grass-type attacks, and its ability Unaware ignores the opponents' stat boosts; this allows Quagsire to take on physical setup sweepers easily, and simplifies prediction massively, as Quagsire does not have to wearily play around these foes. Quagsire is further aided in this role by its access to Recover. That being said, its defensive prowess is somewhat diminished by its low Special Defense and the fact that its only weakness is a 4x weakness, making its typing a double-edged sword in that respect. Its typing also doesn't give it a large amount of resistances either, meaning that powerful physical attacks will still hurt it. Quagsire also has mediocre offensive stats as well as pathetic Speed, and faces great competition with Clefable, another Unaware user which has an extraordinary movepool and the advantage of being able to take on special attackers better. However, it still holds the advantage of being able to beat the common Bisharp and Mega Charizard X, two Pokemon that Clefable can't hope to beat, giving Quagsire a recognizable niche on stall in the metagame.

    Physically Defensive
    ########
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Toxic
    ability: Unaware
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    nature: Relaxed

    Moves
    ========
    Quagsire's standard set aims to take advantage of it's physical walling capabilities. Scald is an excellent move, and Quagsire has no trouble using it to burn the physical attackers it walls, severely crippling them. Earthquake functions as a STAB move to dent Pokemon such as Mega Charizard X, Tentacruel, and Heatran. Recover is mandatory to heal off the damage from the opponents it walls; without it, Quagsire would not be able to effectively take foes on. Finally, Toxic is a great move to cripple walls and other defensive Pokemon such as Hippowdon, Clefable, and Trevenant. Encore can be used to lock an opponent into a move, giving a teammate a free setup opportunity, such as against a Gyarados's Substitute, a Latias's Defog, or a Garchomp's Earthquake. Ice Beam is Quagsire's hardest hitting option against Pokemon that are 4x weak to Ice-type attacks, such as Salamence, Noivern, and Landorus-T, while Stockpile is a viable option to boost Quagsire's defenses even further, aiding it even more in its walling capabilities.

    Set Details
    ========
    Because Quagsire's primary role is checking physical attackers, an EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def is needed to do the most with its otherwise mediocre bulk. A Relaxed nature enhances Quagsire's physical bulk even more, while also not lowering either of Quagsire's offenses. Leftovers is a mandatory item, as it gives Quagsire additional, consistent recovery, which benefits it immensely over time.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Quagsire's main objective is to keep your team safe from physical setup sweepers. Quagsire's Unaware allows the user to not worry as much about setup sweepers, so don't worry if one starts setting up on a teammate, as Quagsire can act as a fail safe. Scald is the move that should be used the most often, unless the opponent has a way of dealing with it, such as Water Absorb or Storm Drain, in which case Toxic is the most optimal choice. Against a Natural Cure user, your best bet is to switch into something which can deal with it. Remember, Quagsire absolutely hates status, so if you predict that the opponent will use a status move such as Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, don't hesitate to switch out. Quagsire needs to be at full health to switch in on physical attackers without the risk of being 2HKOed, so if possible, try to Recover before you switch out. Don't keep trying for a burn with Scald if you need to restore your health with Recover.

    Team Options
    ========
    Mega Venusaur is a good teammate as it doubly resists the Grass-type attacks that trouble Quagsire, it is able to cripple threats to Quagsire with Sleep Powder, and it can also wall the special attackers that Quagsire has trouble with. Heatran synergizes well into a Fire / Water / Grass stall core with Quagsire and Mega Venusaur, and is adept at walling special attackers. Other Pokemon that can help deal with Quagsire's 4x weakness are recommended, such as Goodra, Scizor, and Ferrothorn. Blissey, Chansey, and Sylveon are also great teammates, as they can remove the status that Quagsire hates with either Aromatherapy or Heal Bell, and they too can deal with the special attackers which beat Quagsire.

    Other Options
    ########
    A combination of Infestation and Yawn can work to some extent to immobilize foes, creating setup opportunities, but Encore works just as well without taking up two moveslots. Haze is an interesting choice, as it allows Quagsire to check full Baton Pass teams by resetting their stat boosts, but it has little utility outside of that as Unaware prevents the opponents stat boosts from mattering when the Pokemon is targeting Quagsire, so it is therefore quite a niche option. A Curse set with a specially defensive spread can work to boost Quagsire's Defense while also powering up its physical moves, but Quagsire still lacks power even when boosted; if using Curse, Quagsire also lacks coverage. Iron Tail can be used as a coverage option to beat Calm Mind Clefable, but doesn't have much utility outside of this.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Grass-Types**: Quagsire's main counters are Grass-types, as they can hit it for massive damage with their STAB. Good examples in the metagame include Roserade, Breloom, Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Celebi, Amoonguss, Trevenant, and Gourgeist.

    **Powerful Special Attackers**: Powerful special attackers can prey on Quagsire's weaker defensive stat and damage it severely. Hydreigon, Choice Specs Noivern, Gengar, and Keldeo are all good examples of Pokemon that can wear it down with their STAB moves.

    **Mold Breaker Setup Pokemon**: Excadrill, Haxorus, and Mega Gyarados all have the ability Mold Breaker, which allows them to bypass Quagsire's Unaware ability with offensive boosts they have already gained, meaning that Quagsire cannot wall them.

    **Toxic**: Toxic wears Quagsire down quickly and thus prevents it from being able to wall opponents effectively. Blissey, Chansey, and Gliscor are examples of Pokemon that can Toxic Quagsire.

    **Taunt**: Taunt is quite bothersome for Quagsire, as the move prevents it from using Recover or any of its other status moves, and users of Taunt such as Gliscor and Sableye can easily take advantage of that.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  2. TRC

    TRC regal
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    Quagsire is ready for QC checks.
  3. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
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    Mention some examples with Encore because Quagsire with Toxic can still be beaten by threats such as Substitute + Dragon Dance Gyarados (especially Mega Gyarados thanks to Mold Breaker) and it can lock Jirachi into Calm Mind. There's a lot of examples but these are just a couple.

    Actually Mold Breaker is a pretty big con. Excadrill, Haxorus, and Mega Gyarados can just steamroll through after a Swords Dance / Dragon Dance.

    Also QC can disagree with me but I think the first option in slot 4 should be Encore. It is very powerful on the opportunities it can open to the team as well as helping Quagsire further fulfill its duties.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  4. TRC

    TRC regal
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    Ok I've done the former two changes, but Toxic has such valuable utility for immediately crippling something that doesn't mind a burn as much such as Jellicent or Gastrodon.

    If QC thinks otherwise then I will change the order around.
  5. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Eh... Quagsire is merely "ok." It's basically a poor man's Clefable, but it has the distinction of beating Pokemon that Clefable can't, such as Bisharp & Charizard-X (something you should probably mention in the overview)

    Encore shouldn't be a main option. Its a nice gimmick, but not worth giving up Toxic. The 2 moves mentioned in set details should moved to the moves section.

    Everything looks good.

    QC (1/3)
  6. TRC

    TRC regal
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    Thanks, implemented.
  7. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    Everything looks a-ok here.

    QC Approved 2/3
  8. TRC

    TRC regal
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    Cool thanks, writing it up.
  9. TRC

    TRC regal
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    This is now written up and ready for the final QC check.
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Overview

    Remove this, it's false. Quagsire's physical bulk is pathetic for a wall by OU standards. Just mention how the combo of good typing, Unaware, and Recover make it a reliable counter to some strong set up sweepers, and that's it. That's the reason to use Quagsire, so be concise and to the point.

    This is arguable, and Clefable is definitely the Unaware user that is most easy to fit on teams. Just mention that Quagsire has one pro over Clefable, which is that it can handle some set up sweepers that she can't.

    Main Set

    Moves

    Scald is not mandatory on any p.defensive Water-type remove this. Just stick to talking about Quagsire.

    Usage Tips

    Replace this with: ''The main objective of Quagsire is to keep your team safe from the set up sweepers he walls.

    In the usage tips, mention that Scald should be spammed most of the time, unless the opponent has a way to mitigate it (Water Absorb, Natural Cure, or Storm Drain are the best ways to do this). If it has one of those then Quagsire should either use Toxic or just switch out to a threat that can handle the Natural Cure user (the only case where nor Scald nor Toxic are good options). Remove all the other stuff about Scald and Toxic. Also, remove any explanation of Encore, as it's not on the main set.

    Do those and


    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED 3/3
  11. TRC

    TRC regal
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    Done. Thanks a lot. Ready for GP.
  12. Minus

    Minus Xylen is my hero
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    Awesomeness (open)

    Overview
    ########
    While Quagsire is yet another example of the ubiquitous bulky water Water-Types, it does have a few advantages that put it above the rest. Most notably, its typing grants it only one weakness, the Grass-type attacks, and its Unaware ability ignores the opponents stat boosts; this allows Quagsire to take on physical set up attackers easily (Don't use a form of "easy" within 10 words; chang it to "piece of cake" or something better), while also easing prediction massively and eases prediction massively. Quagsire is further benefited even further in this role seems unnecessary, but ignore this if you want to by its access to reliable recovery in the form of Recover. That being said, its defensive prowess is somewhat diminished by its low Special Defense, and the fact that it is 4x weak to its only weakness while it only has one weakness, Quagsire is 4x weak to it, making its typing a double-edged sword in that respect. Its typing also doesn't leave a large amount of resistances either, meaning that powerful physical attacks will still hurt it. Quagsire also has mediocre offensive stats as well as Speed, and faces great competition with Clefable, another Unaware user who has an extraordinary movepool and the advantage of being able to take on special attackers better easier. However, it still poses the advantage of being able to beat the common Bisharp and Mega Charizard X, two Pokemon that Clefable can't hope to beat, giving Quagsire a recognizable niche on stall in the metagame.

    Physically Defensive
    ########
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Toxic
    ability: Unaware
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    nature: Relaxed

    Moves
    ========
    Quagsire's standard set aims to take advantage of Quagsire's physical walling capabilities. Scald is an excellent move, and Quagsire has no trouble using it to burn the physical attackers it walls, severely crippling them. Earthquake functions as a STAB move to dent things like Mega Charizard X, Tentacruel, and Heatran. In order to heal off the damage from the opponents it walls, Recover is mandatory,; without it, Quagsire would not be able to effectively take them specify "them" with a synonym you didn't already use :P on. Finally, Toxic is a great move to cripple walls and other defensive Pokemon such as Hippowdon, Clefable, and Trevenant. In terms of other move options, three stick out the most: Encore, Ice Beam, and Stockpile. Encore can be used to lock an opponent into a move, giving a teammate a free setup opportunity, such as against a Gyarados's Substitute, a Latias's Defog, or a Garchomp's Earthquake. Ice Beam is Quagsire's hardest hitting option against Pokemon 4x weak to the 4x Ice-type weak Pokemon, such as Salamence, Noivern, and Landorus-T, while Stockpile is a viable option to boost Quagsire's defenses even further, aiding it even more in its walling capabilities.

    Set Details
    ========
    Quagsire's EVs provide it with the most physical bulk as possible, making its job checking physical attackers as easy as possible. Because Quagsire's primary role is checking physical attackers, 252 HP /252 Def are needed to do the most with his otherwise mediocre bulk. A Relaxed nature benefits this process even more, while also not lowering either of Quagsire's offenses. Leftovers is a mandatory item as it gives Quagsire consistent recovery which benefits it immensely over time.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    The main objective of Quagsire is to keep your team safe from the setup sweepers it walls Seems redundant, Keep it if you want. Quagsire's Unaware allows the user to not worry as much about setup sweepers, so don't fear if one starts setting up on a teammate, as Quagsire can act as a fail safe. Scald is the move that should be used the most often, unless the opponent has a way of dealing with it(comma) such as Water Absorb, Storm Drain, and Nature Cure; in the former two's case, Toxic is the best option, while in the latter case, your best bet is to switch into something which can deal with the Natural Cure user. Remember, Quagsire absolutely hates status, so if you predict that the opponent will use a status move like Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, don't hesitate to switch out. Quagsire needs to be at full health to switch in on physical attackers without the risk of being 2HKOed, so if possible, try to Recover before you switch out. Don't keep trying to for a burn a for with Scald if you need to Recover your health.

    Team Options
    ========
    Mega Venusaur is a good teammate as it resists the Grass-type attacks that trouble Quagsire, and it is also able to cripple Quagsire's threats to Quagsire with Sleep Powder. It can wall the special attackers that Quagsire has trouble with, and also provides great defensive synergy. Other Pokemon that can help deal with Quagsire's 4x weakness are recommended, such as Pokemon that resist it and can set up on opponents of that type. Example include: Goodra, Mega Scizor, and again, Mega Venusaur. Heatran fits well [synergistically] Is this even a word :P? into a Fire / Water / Grass core with Quagsire and Mega Venusaur, and is adept at walling special attackers. Blissey, Chansey, and Sylveon are also great teammates as they can remove the status which that Quagsire hates with either Aromatherapy or Heal Bell, and they too can deal with the special attackers which beat Quagsire.

    Other Options
    ########
    A combination of Infestation and Yawn can work to some extent to immobilize foes, creating setup opportunities, but Encore works just as well at this without taking two moveslots. A Curse set can work to boost Quagsire's Defense even more while also powering up Earthquake, but it Quagsire is lacking power Quagsire still lacks power even when boosted;, and with Curse, Quagsire also lacks coverage. If one was to use a Curse set though, Special Defense EVs would be recommended. Iron Tail can be used as a coverage option to beat Calm Mind Clefable, but doesn't have much utility outside of this.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Grass-Types**: Quagsire's main counters are Grass-types as they can hit it for massive damage with their STAB. Good examples in the metagame include Roserade, Breloom, mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Celebi, Amoonguss, Trevenant, and Gourgiest.

    **Powerful Special Attackers**: Special wallbreakers and other poweful special attackers can prey on Quagsire's weaker defensive stat to weaken and damage it severely. Hydreigon, Choice Specs Noivern, Gengar, and Keldeo are all good examples that can wear it down with their STAB moves.

    **Mold Breaker Users**: Excadrill and Haxorus both have the ability Mold Breaker, which allows them to bypass Quagsire's Unaware ability with their own offensive boosts, which lets letting them set up and take down Quagsire easily.

    **Toxic**: Toxic prevents Quagsire from being able to wall opponents effectively as it wears it down quickly with the residual damage. Blissey, Chansey, and Gliscor are examples of Pokemon that can Toxic Quagsire.

    **Taunt**: Taunt is quite bothersome for Quagsire as it the move prevents it from using Recover or any of its other status moves, and users of Taunt such as Gliscor and Sableye can easily take advantage of that.

    GP 1/2 TRCarnivine
    Sorry for the delay :P
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
  13. StViers

    StViers

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    The line "Quagsire's EVs provide it with the most possible physical bulk as possible, making its job checking physical attackers as easy as[possible] pick another word, like "it can"." I'd go with: "These EV's provide Quagsire the most physical bulk possible, making the most of its role as a check to physical attackers." If you wanted to reword it completely but keep the intent, I'd even say "Because Quagsire's primary role is checking physical attackers, 252 HP /252 Def are needed to do the most with his otherwise mediocre bulk." ;) Sorry if I'm stepping on toes!
    Minus likes this.
  14. TRC

    TRC regal
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    Implemented, sorry it was a bit late.
    Minus likes this.
  15. P2X7

    P2X7

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    Amateur check.

    Add
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    Amateur check (open)

    Overview
    ########
    While Quagsire is yet another example of the ubiquitous bulky Water-types, it does have a few advantages that put it above the rest. Most notably, its typing grants it only one weakness, Grass-type attacks, and its Unaware ability ignores the opponents stat boosts; this allows Quagsire to take on physical set (Remove this space)up attackers easily, and simplifies prediction massively. Quagsire is further benefited in this role by its access to reliable recovery in the form of Recover. That being said, its defensive prowess is somewhat diminished by its low Special Defense, and the fact that it is 4x weak to its only weakness, making its typing a double-edged sword in that respect. Its typing also doesn't leave a large amount of resistances either, meaning that powerful physical attacks will still hurt it. Quagsire also has mediocre offensive stats as well as Speed, and faces great competition with Clefable, another Unaware user who has an extraordinary movepool and the advantage of being able to take on special attackers better. However, it still poses the advantage of being able to beat the common Bisharp and Mega Charizard X, two Pokemon that Clefable can't hope to beat, giving Quagsire a recognizable niche on stall in the metagame.

    Physically Defensive
    ########
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Toxic
    ability: Unaware
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    nature: Relaxed

    Moves
    ========
    Quagsire's standard set aims to take advantage of Quagsire's physical walling capabilities. Scald is an excellent move, and Quagsire has no trouble using it to burn the physical attackers it walls, severely crippling them. Earthquake functions as a STAB move to dent things like Mega Charizard X, Tentacruel, and Heatran. In order to heal off the damage from the opponents it walls, Recover is mandatory; without it, Quagsire would not be able to effectively take foes on. Finally, Toxic is a great move to cripple walls and other defensive Pokemon such as Hippowdon, Clefable, and Trevenant. In terms of other move options, three stick out the most: Encore, Ice Beam, and Stockpile. Encore can be used to lock an opponent into a move, giving a teammate a free setup opportunity, such as against a Gyarados's Substitute, a Latias's Defog, or a Garchomp's Earthquake. Ice Beam is Quagsire's hardest hitting option against 4x Ice-type weak Pokemon that are 4x weak to Ice-type attacks, such as Salamence, Noivern, and Landorus-T, while Stockpile is a viable option to boost Quagsire's defenses even further, aiding it even more in its walling capabilities.

    Set Details
    ========
    Because Quagsire's primary role is checking physical attackers, 252 HP /(This needs a space.)252 Def are needed to do the most with his its(Consistency) otherwise mediocre bulk. A Relaxed nature benefits this process even more, while also not lowering either of Quagsire's offenses. Leftovers is a mandatory item as it gives Quagsire consistent recovery which benefits it immensely over time.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    The main objective of Quagsire is to keep your team safe from setup sweepers. Quagsire's Unaware allows the user to not worry as much about setup sweepers, so don't fear if one starts setting up on a teammate, as Quagsire can act as a fail safe. Scald is the move that should be used the most often, unless the opponent has a way of dealing with it, such as Water Absorb, Storm Drain, and Natureal Cure; in the former two's case, Toxic is the best option, while in the latter case, your best bet is to switch into something which can deal with the Natural Cure user. Remember, Quagsire absolutely hates status, so if you predict that the opponent will use a status move like Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, don't hesitate to switch out. Quagsire needs to be at full health to switch in on physical attackers without the risk of being 2HKOed, so if possible, try to Recover before you switch out. Don't keep trying for a burn with Scald if you need to Recover restore your health with Recover.

    Team Options
    ========
    Mega Venusaur is a good teammate as it resists the Grass-type attacks that trouble Quagsire, and it is also able to cripple Quagsire's threats with Sleep Powder. It can wall the special attackers that Quagsire has trouble with, and also provides great defensive synergy. Other Pokemon that can help deal with Quagsire's 4x weakness are recommended, such as Pokemon that resist it and can set up on opponents of that type. Example include: Goodra, Mega Scizor, and again, Mega Venusaur. Heatran fits well synergistically into a Fire / Water / Grass core with Quagsire and Mega Venusaur, and is adept at walling special attackers. Blissey, Chansey, and Sylveon are also great teammates as they can remove the status that Quagsire hates with either Aromatherapy or Heal Bell, and they too can deal with the special attackers which beat Quagsire.

    Other Options
    ########
    A combination of Infestation and Yawn can work to some extent to immobilize foes, creating setup opportunities, but Encore works just as well without taking up two moveslots. A Curse set can work to boost Quagsire's Defense even more while also powering up Earthquake, but Quagsire still lacks power even when boosted; if using (I assume that this is what you were trying to say)Curse, Quagsire also lacks coverage. If one was to use a Curse set though, Special Defense EVs would be recommended. Iron Tail can be used as a coverage option to beat Calm Mind Clefable, but doesn't have much utility outside of this.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Grass-Types**: Quagsire's main counters are Grass-types as they can hit it for massive damage with their STAB. Good examples in the metagame include Roserade, Breloom, mMega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Celebi, Amoonguss, Trevenant, and Gourgieist.

    **Powerful Special Attackers**: Special wallbreakers and other poweful special attackers can prey on Quagsire's weaker defensive stat and damage it severely. Hydreigon, Choice Specs Noivern, Gengar, and Keldeo are all good examples that can wear it down with their STAB moves.

    **Mold Breaker Users**: Excadrill and Haxorus both have the ability Mold Breaker, which allows them to bypass Quagsire's Unaware ability with their own offensive boosts, letting them set up and take down Quagsire easily.

    **Toxic**: Toxic prevents Quagsire from being able to wall opponents effectively as it wears it down quickly with the residual damage. Blissey, Chansey, and Gliscor are examples of Pokemon that can Toxic Quagsire.

    **Taunt**: Taunt is quite bothersome for Quagsire as the move prevents it from using Recover or any of its other status moves, and users of Taunt such as Gliscor and Sableye can easily take advantage of that.
    TRC likes this.
  16. TRC

    TRC regal
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    Implemented the amcheck, thanks.
  17. tehy

    tehy

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    amcheck (open)

    Overview
    ########
    While Quagsire is yet another example of the ubiquitous bulky Water-types, it does have a few advantages that put it above the rest. Most notably, its typing grants it only one weakness, Grass-type attacks, and its ability Unaware ability ignores the opponent's stat boosts; this allows Quagsire to take on setup physical setup attackers easily, and simplifies prediction massively. Quagsire is further benefitaided in this role by its access to reliable recovery in the form of Recover. That being said, its defensive prowess is somewhat diminished by its low Special Defense, and the fact that it is 4xonly weak toness its onlya 4x weakness, making its typing a double-edged sword in that respect. Its typing also doesn't leagive it a large amount of resistances either, meaning that powerful physical attacks will still hurt it. Quagsire also has mediocre offensive stats as well as Speed, and faces great competition with Clefable, another Unaware user who has an extraordinary movepool and the advantage of being able to take on special attackers better. However, it still poseholds the advantage of being able to beat the common Bisharp and Mega Charizard X, two Pokemon that Clefable can't hope to beat, giving Quagsire a recognizable niche on stall in the metagame.

    Physically Defensive
    ########
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Toxic
    ability: Unaware
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    nature: Relaxed

    Moves
    ========
    Quagsire's standard set aims to take advantage of Quagsire's physical walling capabilities. Scald is an excellent move, and Quagsire has no trouble using it to burn the physical attackers it walls, severely crippling them. Earthquake functions as a STAB move to dent things like Mega Charizard X, Tentacruel, and Heatran. In orderRecover is mandatory to heal off the damage from the opponents it walls, Recover is mandatory; without it, Quagsire would not be able to effectively take foes on. Finally, Toxic is a great move to cripple walls and other defensive Pokemon such as Hippowdon, Clefable, and Trevenant. In terms of other move options, three stick out the most: Encore, Ice Beam, and Stockpile. Encore can be used to lock an opponent into a move, giving a teammate a free setup opportunity, such as against a Gyarados's Substitute, a Latias's Defog, or a Garchomp's Earthquake. Ice Beam is Quagsire's hardest hitting option against Pokemon that are 4x weak to Ice-type attacks, such as Salamence, Noivern, and Landorus-T, while Stockpile is a viable option to boost Quagsire's defenses even further, aiding it even more in its walling capabilities.


    Set Details
    ========
    Because Quagsire's primary role is checking physical attackers, 252 HP / 252 Def are needed to do the most with its otherwise mediocre bulk. A Relaxed nature benhancefits thiQuagsire's processhysical bulk even more, while also not lowering either of Quagsire's offenses. Leftovers is a mandatory item, as it gives Quagsire additional, consistent recovery, which benefits it immensely over time.


    Usage Tips
    ========
    The main objective of QuagsirQuagsire's main objective is to keep your team safe from physical setup sweepers. Quagsire's Unaware allows the user to not worry as much about setup sweepers, so don't fearworry if one starts setting up on a teammate, as Quagsire can act as a fail safe.

    Scald is the move that should be used the most often, unless the opponent has a way of dealing with it, such as Water Absorb, or Storm Drain, and Natural Cure; in the former two'swhich case, Toxic is theyour best option, while in the latter cabet. Against a Natural Cure user, your best bet is to switch into something which can deal with the Natural Cure user.

    Remember, Quagsire absolutely hates status, so if you predict that the opponent will use a status move like Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, don't hesitate to switch out. Quagsire needs to be at full health to switch in on physical attackers without the risk of being 2HKOed, so if possible, try to Recover before you switch out. Don't keep trying for a burn with Scald if you need to restore your health with Recover.



    Team Options
    ========
    Mega Venusaur is a good teammate as it doubly resists the Grass-type attacks that trouble Quagsire, and it is also able to cripple Pokemon that threaten Quagsire's threats with Sleep Powder. It c, and wall the special attackers that Quagsire has trouble with, and also provides great defensive synergy.

    Other Pokemon that c
    Heatran help deal wfith Quagsire's 4x weakness are recommended, such as Pokemon that resll synergist it and can set up on opponents of that type. Example include:lly into a Fire / Water / Goodra, Mega Scizor, and again,ss core with Quagsire and Mega Venusaur. Heatr, and fits adept at well synergistically into a Fire / Watalling special attackers. Other / Grass corePokemon that can help deal with Quagsire and Mega Venusaur, a's 4x weakness are recommended, isuch adept at walling special attackerss Goodra and Scizor. Blissey, Chansey, and Sylveon are also great teammates, as they can remove the status that Quagsire hates with either Aromatherapy or Heal Bell, and they too can deal with the special attackers which beat Quagsire.

    Other Options
    ########
    A combination of Infestation and Yawn can work to some extent to immobilize foes, creating setup opportunities, but Encore works just as well without taking up two moveslots. A Curse set with a specially defensive spread can work to boost Quagsire's Defense even more while also powering up Earthquakeits physical moves, but Quagsire still lacks power even when boosted; if using Curse, Quagsire also lacks coverage. If one was to use a Curse set though, Special Defense EVs would be recommended. Iron Tail can be used as a coverage option to beat Calm Mind Clefable, but doesn't have much utility outside of this.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Grass-Types**: Quagsire's main counters are Grass-types, as they can hit it for massive damage with their STAB. Good examples in the metagame include Roserade, Breloom, Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Celebi, Amoonguss, Trevenant, and Gourgeist.

    **Powerful Special Attackers**: Special wallbreakers and other pPoweful special attackers can prey on Quagsire's weaker defensive stat and damage it severely. Hydreigon, Choice Specs Noivern, Gengar, and Keldeo are all good examples that can wear it down with their STAB moves.

    **Mold Breaker UsersSetup Pokemon**: Excadrill and Haxorus both have the ability Mold Breaker, which allows them to bypass Quagsire's Unaware ability with their own offensive boosts, letting them set up and take down Quagsire easily.

    **Toxic**: Toxic preventwears Quagsire down quickly and thus prevents it from being able to wall opponents effectively as it wears it down quickly with the residual damage. Blissey, Chansey, and Gliscor are examples of Pokemon that can Toxic Quagsire.

    **Taunt**: Taunt is quite bothersome for Quagsire, as the move prevents it from using Recover or any of its other status moves besides Scald, and users of Taunt such as Gliscor and Sableye can easily take advantage of that.


    comments (open)

    Comments:
    At the top, you state that Unaware lets it take on physical setup sweepers easily, when it should really just be 'setup sweepers'. Then in the usage tips you just say 'setup sweepers', but since in this case you're talking a full physically defensive set only and not general quagsire, it makes more sense to specify physical setup sweepers.
    "Its typing also doesn't leave a large amount of resistances either, meaning that powerful physical attacks will still hurt it";I understand precisely what you mean but this is just poorly written. So...you might want to re-write it yourself;i'll take a crack at it too.
    Any sentence saying "some options are blah" is pure fluff. Just talk about it already
    I added in that Leftovers gives it additional recovery, because just saying consistent implies it didn't already have it with Recover.
    Other than all the stuff mentioned in the first two sentences about Mega venusaur, how does it 'provide great defensive synergy'? I guess it can take on Water-types and absorb Toxic, both problematic for Quagsire, but overall that feels like a throw-in.
    Just going to point out here that Roserade has 1.3% usage in this metagame and it may not even deserve it, although since it trashes quagsire it might still deserve a mention.
    Rearranged the order of a few things, no reason to mention stuff out of order when it flows better otherwise. Also, differentiated between Water Absorb/Storm Drain and Natural cure, which saved space and flowed better, although it unfortunately unfused a fused sentence.
    What is the difference between a special wallbreaker and a strong special attacker? And more relevantly, how does that difference matter to quagsire?
    Quagsire doesn't give a crap about Mold Breaker if it's not attached to some way to boost stats, you know.
  18. TRC

    TRC regal
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    Ok, I have implemented tehy 's amcheck except for two things.

    "Mega Venusaur is a good teammate as it doubly resists the Grass-type attacks that trouble Quagsire, and it is also able to cripple Pokemon that threaten Quagsire's with Sleep Powder"

    I left out this sentence due to ambiguity; it seems like you are saying the Mega Venusaur cripples Pokemon that use Sleep Powder to threaten Quagsire.

    "Taunt is quite bothersome for Quagsire, as the move prevents it from using Recover or any of its other status moves besides Scald, and users of Taunt such as Gliscor and Sableye can easily take advantage of that"

    By status move, I mean of the three categories of moves, Physical, Special, and Status, not a move that inflicts a Status. Scald would not fall under that category anyway as much as Air Slash would be a "flinching" move on anything other than Togekiss.

    In any case, it is ready for the 2nd and final GP check.
  19. tehy

    tehy

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    Well, the 's was a leftover that i unfortunately forgot to eliminate, if you take it out then it should read just fine

    As for the status move thing; I get that you weren't including it, but it's super relevant to note, because Scald lets Quagsire actually do something to Sableye, even if it's taunted. (And is SE on gliscor, but not the point.)
  20. piikachuu

    piikachuu now with a scarf
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    add rm comment
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    Overview
    ########
    While Quagsire is yet another example of the ubiquitous a (some people really hate the word "ubiquitous" and tbh i don't think they're that common) bulky Water-type, it does have a few advantages that put it above the rest. Most notably, its typing grants it only one weakness, Grass-type attacks, and its ability Unaware ignores the opponents'(apostrophe) stat boosts; this allows Quagsire to take on setup physical setup sweepers attackers easily, and simplifies prediction massively (how?). Quagsire is further aided in this role by its access to Recover. That being said, its defensive prowess is somewhat diminished by its low Special Defense,(RC) and the fact that its only weakness is a 4x weakness, making its typing a double-edged sword in that respect. Its typing also doesn't give it a large amount of resistances either, meaning that powerful physical attacks will still hurt it. Quagsire also has mediocre offensive stats as well as pathetic (or an adjective of your choice, but "mediocre" does not do it justice) Speed, and faces great competition with Clefable, another Unaware user who which has an extraordinary movepool and the advantage of being able to take on special attackers better. However, it still holds the advantage of being able to beat the common Bisharp and Mega Charizard X, two Pokemon that Clefable can't hope to beat, giving Quagsire a recognizable niche on stall in the metagame.

    Physically Defensive
    ########
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Toxic
    ability: Unaware
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    nature: Relaxed

    Moves
    ========
    Quagsire's standard set aims to take advantage of Quagsire it's physical walling capabilities. Scald is an excellent move, and Quagsire has no trouble using it to burn the physical attackers it walls, severely crippling them. Earthquake functions as a STAB move to dent things Pokemon like such as Mega Charizard X, Tentacruel, and Heatran. Recover is mandatory to heal off the damage from the opponents it walls; without it, Quagsire would not be able to effectively take foes on. Finally, Toxic is a great move to cripple walls and other defensive Pokemon such as Hippowdon, Clefable, and Trevenant. Encore can be used to lock an opponent into a move, giving a teammate a free setup opportunity, such as against a Gyarados's Substitute, a Latias's Defog, or a Garchomp's Earthquake. Ice Beam is Quagsire's hardest hitting option against Pokemon that are 4x weak to Ice-type attacks, such as Salamence, Noivern, and Landorus-T, while Stockpile is a viable option to boost Quagsire's defenses even further, aiding it even more in its walling capabilities.

    Set Details
    ========
    Because Quagsire's primary role is checking physical attackers, an EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def are is needed to do the most with its otherwise mediocre bulk. A Relaxed nature enhances Quagsire's physical bulk even more, while also not lowering either of Quagsire's offenses. Leftovers is a mandatory item, as it gives Quagsire additional, consistent recovery, which benefits it immensely over time.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Quagsire's main objective is to keep your team safe from physical setup sweepers. Quagsire's Unaware allows the user to not worry as much about setup sweepers, so don't worry if one starts setting up on a teammate, as Quagsire can act as a fail safe. Scald is the move that should be used the most often, unless the opponent has a way of dealing with it, such as Water Absorb or Storm Drain, in which case,(RC) Toxic is the most optimal choice. Against a Natural Cure user, your best bet is to switch in(remove space)to something which can deal with it. Remember, Quagsire absolutely hates status, so if you predict that the opponent will use a status move like such as Will-O-Wisp or Toxic, don't hesitate to switch out. Quagsire needs to be at full health to switch in on physical attackers without the risk of being 2HKOed, so if possible, try to Recover before you switch out. Don't keep trying for a burn with Scald if you need to restore your health with Recover.

    Team Options
    ========
    Mega Venusaur is a good teammate as it doubly resists the Grass-type attacks that trouble Quagsire, it is also able to cripple threats to Quagsire with Sleep Powder, and it can also wall the special attackers that Quagsire has trouble with. Heatran fits well synergistically synergizes well into a Fire / Water / Grass stall core with Quagsire and Mega Venusaur, and is adept at walling special attackers. Other Pokemon that can help deal with Quagsire's 4x weakness are recommended, such as Goodra, Scizor, and Ferrothorn. Blissey, Chansey, and Sylveon are also great teammates, as they can remove the status that Quagsire hates with either Aromatherapy or Heal Bell, and they too can deal with the special attackers which beat Quagsire.

    Other Options
    ########
    A combination of Infestation and Yawn can work to some extent to immobilize foes, creating setup opportunities, but Encore works just as well without taking up two moveslots. A Curse set with a specially defensive spread can work to boost Quagsire's Defense while also powering up its physical moves, but Quagsire still lacks power even when boosted; if using Curse, Quagsire also lacks coverage. Iron Tail can be used as a coverage option to beat Calm Mind Clefable, but doesn't have much utility outside of this.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    **Grass-Types**: Quagsire's main counters are Grass-types, as they can hit it for massive damage with their STAB. Good examples in the metagame include Roserade, Breloom, Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Celebi, Amoonguss, Trevenant, and Gourgeist.

    **Powerful Special Attackers**: Powerful special attackers can prey on Quagsire's weaker defensive stat and damage it severely. Hydreigon, Choice Specs Noivern, Gengar, and Keldeo are all good examples of Pokemon that can wear it down with their STAB moves.

    **Mold Breaker Setup Pokemon**: Excadrill and Haxorus both have the ability Mold Breaker, which allows them to bypass Quagsire's Unaware ability with offensive boosts they have already gained, therefore meaning that Quagsire can not wall them.

    **Toxic**: Toxic wears Quagsire down quickly and thus prevents it from being able to wall opponents effectively. Blissey, Chansey, and Gliscor are examples of Pokemon that can Toxic Quagsire.

    **Taunt**: Taunt is quite bothersome for Quagsire, as the move prevents it from using Recover or any of its other status moves, and users of Taunt such as Gliscor and Sableye can easily take advantage of that.



    gp 2/2
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  21. TRC

    TRC regal
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    Implemented, thanks. This analysis is complete.
  22. Necosh

    Necosh

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    I would probably run Muddy Water>scald simply for the accuracy debuff chance. Although 100% accuracy debuffs like Flash and Sand Attack are pretty much not accepted for competitive play, where as moves with a little more chance are acceptable, and the only thing better than them hitting you for less damage is them not hitting you at all.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  23. TRC

    TRC regal
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    Scald is absolutely essential for the burn chance, that is its main purpose.
  24. Frochtejohgurt

    Frochtejohgurt

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    Mega Gyarados still isn't mentioned, although it much more common as a setup sweeper than Excadrill or Haxorus are.
  25. TRC

    TRC regal
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    Removed mentions of Genesect and Mega Lucario.

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