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Quagsire

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by thewetmop, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. thewetmop

    thewetmop

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    [​IMG]

    EDITED: long overdue, i've added some interesting sets courtesy of other posters. Hope this helps out.

    Quagsire returns, most likely to UU, but with some new toys that could make him even more awesome than he previously was. Why make a topic devoted to quagsire? Partly because he's my favorite pokemon, but mostly because i think unaware being added to his skillset gives him a whole new role in the lower tiers.

    Base Stats:
    HP 95
    Atk 85
    Def 85
    SpA 65
    SpD 65
    Spe 35

    Abilties:
    *Damp: Prevents the use of Selfdestruct or Explosion. Prevents Aftermath from doing damage.

    *Water Absorb: Heals 25% HP when hit by a Water-type attack.

    *Unaware: If a Pokemon with the ability Unaware is the target of an attack, all of the attacker's [Special] Attack boosts are ignored. If a Pokemon with the ability Unaware is attacking, all of the defender's [Special] Defense boosts are ignored. If an Unaware Pokemon is using Punishment, stat boosts still factor into its power. If an Unaware Pokemon hits itself in its confusion, it still keeps its altered Attack and Defense stats.

    New toys
    - Unaware. Water Absorb is great, but so is this. Belly Drummers, Dragon Dancers, CM users, and SD set ups become much less threatening when you have something like this in tow. In addition, Quagsire gets excellent support moves in yawn and toxic to punish opponents forced to switch as their stat boosts are meaningless.

    - Boiling water. Exactly what Quaggy wanted this generation. After a burn, quagsire becomes quite difficult to kill physically, thanks to his access to recover. Whats more, setting up instead of attacking does you opponent no good if you're running unaware.

    - Level ground. You won't see this on my set(s), but it could have some uses because of its speed lowering capability. Though Quagsire will probably still be slower.

    it doesn't get many other moves this gen. Though it got recover in HG/SS, so i can't complain much.

    Possible movesets
    Unaware sweep blocker

    Quagsire @ leftovers
    Unaware
    Relaxed 252 HP 4 Atk 252 Def
    -Earthquake
    -Boiling water
    -Toxic/Yawn
    -Recover

    This set serves to block potential sweeps, most notably from physical sweepers boosted by DD, SD, bulk up, or bellydrum. Earthquake is your standard damaging move. Boiling water does some damage (albiet, not alot) and has a chance to burn physical attackers, Toxic and Yawn are for your calm mind opponents, who aren't particularly bothered by boiling water or earthquake. Recover keeps quaggy alive longer, and gives him more shots at status-ing the opponents team. Relaxed is used over impish to prevent a drop in power to boiling water. While having earthquake as his only real attacking move may scream setup fodder, his ability makes this set actually work out.

    EDIT::
    Dragon Killer
    Quagsire@ Leftovers
    Impish 128 HP, 252 Atk, 128 Def
    -Earthquake
    -Ice punch
    -Toxic/Yawn
    - Recover
    ::



    This set (courtesy of Rykard) swaps boiling water for Ice punch, and gains the ability to kill dragon types try to set up on you. with 252 Atk, he can OHKO salamence, and can still survive an outrage from max attack mence. While he won't be able to OHKO pure dragons, or our new dark/dragon hyrda, you should be able to deal some damage while they "set up" as they won't know you aren't running water absorb. As always, a status move is available for situations in which ice punch, and earthquake aren't viable.




    The biggest point of contention here is weather dream world abilities are compatible with egg moves, as Quagsire gets both Recover and Yawn from egg moves. If not, unaware quagsire may not be as helpful as the water absorb variants. EDIT: issue has been solved, pokemon can have dreamworld abilities and egg moves.
  2. foxy_eisenhower

    foxy_eisenhower

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    Obligatory Gimmick Option!
    Quagsire @ leftovers
    Unaware
    Relaxed 252 HP 4 Atk 252 Def
    -Earthquake
    -Boiling water
    -Swagger
    -Recover
    Like if Machamp was a tadpole and just looked at things funny instead of punching them confused.
  3. General Tso

    General Tso

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    Recover is a Move Tutor move yes? (I don't know). If it is, I believe it'd be illegal with Unaware.

    Poor Quagsire :(
  4. foxy_eisenhower

    foxy_eisenhower

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    Corsola
    Milotic
    Shellos, Gastrodon RecoverHGSS

    copied from the Egg Move list in Bulbapedia. I think they figured out you can breed dream world abilities but don't quote me on it
  5. Rykard

    Rykard

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    with the abundance of dragons that came out that seem really powerful, i would suggest running Ice punch since they will be the ones most commonly setting up and sweeping. since he got it from a move tutor in diamond and pearl, i'm not sure if he can still get it along with Unaware though.

    and with an ev spread of 128 HP, 252 Atk and 128 Def and an adamant nature, he can 1 hit KO salamence with ice punch while surviving a life orbed, adamant, max attack outrage with stealth rocks up. I think that is pretty beast
  6. foxy_eisenhower

    foxy_eisenhower

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    Intimidate. Or overconfident, either way you need to redo the calcs unless you actually did account for it


    wow i'm stupid, sorry man \/
  7. Rykard

    Rykard

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    the overconfident boost wouldn't matter because you have unaware and you would be switching quagsire in after mence killed something meaning intimidate would have already occurred

    I'm not saying quagsire is a salamence counter. Just saying that he has way more potential with unaware than bibarel does and this is just an example
  8. CRC

    CRC

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    Scarf Ditto seems like a better counter to stat uppers, but quagsire in my opinion beats swampert with unaware if it gets recover. If it doesn't, it sucks.
  9. Thund91

    Thund91

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    Would Recover/Encore/Unaware be possible?
  10. Rykard

    Rykard

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    its not safe to say yet. its been proven that you can breed Dream world abilities within your own species so a female and a male quagsire with unaware would result in a wooper that has unaware (or whatever wooper's dream world ability is). since recover is an egg move it gets from another species, it is not known if this will work or not
  11. Morm

    Morm

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    If the female quaggy has unaware and you breed with a male quaggy that has recover that should yield a baby with recover/unaware. Who would honestly even use unaware when water absorb not only gives him an immunity but it gives him healing for some of those super predictable surfs that fly around in virtually every tier?

    Boiling water makes him a little more scary, to be certain. He can invest more heavily in SpD and even forget about HP. Personally, I'd run:

    252HP/252SpDef/4Def (EV's debateable as he'd come in on a lot of attacks)

    Boiling water
    Encore
    recover
    Toxic

    For that double status flavor
  12. CRC

    CRC

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    Unaware negates any type of setup, even setup that has already happened. Thats better than an immunity to water in my opinion.
  13. Shadow hunter

    Shadow hunter

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    quagsire spa base is 65 so boiling water wond do anything it would only be for 30% burn rate because it will do patetic damage even to those weak to it i dont see quagsire using boiling water really
  14. thewetmop

    thewetmop

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    This is probably a better idea. I'll add it to the original post.
  15. thewetmop

    thewetmop

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    yes, the only reason it would be used would be to status opponents. I was unable to find the chance of burn when creating this thread, so i didn't know how likely it would be. At 30%, it may not be worth it.
  16. Raptorg

    Raptorg

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    I'm fairly sure it was confirmed as a 30% chance to burn.

    Honestly, I think that's just fine.
    Quagsire never was about OHKO'ing everything it attempts to wall.
    The burn is just so good, even if it hits a special attacker, that's still additional damage that attacker takes each turn, and it helps your trusty special wall in case this special attacker has a surprise physical attack.
  17. Rykard

    Rykard

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    30% is a lot more than people are making it out to be i think. I mean it has the same chance to burn that body slam has to paralyze and that happened all the time. plus, having only 1 weakness and being able to take physical hits pretty well makes him really good at surviving and staying in to get that 30% burn chance to occur in my opinion. And since he has usually ran toxic, this gives him more options to hurt switch ins that will resist toxic
  18. norelationstojfk

    norelationstojfk

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    I legitimately think Unaware can bring Quagsire some use in OU. For a while, I used a Bibarel with the same purpose in OU, and it was very effective despite it being an NU pokemon. A lot of ragequits happened (my favorite when Bibarel KOed a Metagross). Quagsire's better typing gives it more opportunity to switch in and make a pain in the butt out of itself. Still, the high attacking powers speculated to be in OU may be too much for Quagsire.
  19. Wafflez

    Wafflez

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    Quagsire dsn't seem to do pretty much what it did last gen..Lower tier Tanking.I suppose boiling water is nice and Unaware can turn it into a solid check/counter to a lot of threats.And...


    I lol'd.
  20. thewetmop

    thewetmop

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    I feel like the high attacking power you're talking about will keep him down in UU. Especially because so many powerful things were added this generation. That said, he looks like he's got promise for UU, where the setup pokemon he has to block do a significant amount less to him.
  21. Forsety

    Forsety

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    Quagsire got abit of a niche problem this gen, his old niche was that he was a water/ground with a immunity to water who could still hit hard. This gen hes been utterly usurped by Gastrodon and Gamogeroge.

    In short for Quagsire to even be of any use this gen he HAS to run an Unaware set to distinguish himself from the others. Now in terms of Unaware pokemon he is actually the most physically defensive available giving him a new niche.

    However another con we have is in running Unaware he loses Ice Punch one of his best coverage moves from last gen and Bibarrel still has Super Fang over him.

    The other big problem is there are alot more Mold Breakers this gen who'll not even care about Unaware which sort of kills Quaggy's ability as a check against setups.

    In the end think one of the best things he probably has going for him will probably be a classic Curse set or a pure defensive support set. But the power creep has definitely hurt Quaggy most since he was only barely cutting it statwise before.
  22. Shadow hunter

    Shadow hunter

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    people anyone making unaware ability quagsire with ice punch is ilegal ice punch is not lvl up or egg move is a tutor move from 4 gen and unaware is dream worl ability from 5 gen so no unaware with ice punch guys and boiling water on quagsire? why with its pathetical spa it will be like doing an WoW with 30% Chance to burn leavue boiling water for gastrodon wich gets water imunity now with storm drain
  23. deluge

    deluge

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    With the new and vicious setup move known as Shell Break Unaware Quagsire could have a niche.
    It's neutral to Water/Ice and resists Rock while negating Cloyster's Atk and SpA boosts.

    ~Encore
    ~Boiling Water
    ~Toxic/Yawn
    ~Recover

    A 100% status platform with ability to "do something" when Taunted due to Boiling Water having Base Power.
    A defensive Quagsire's attacks are doing laughable damage anyway so I wouldn't even bother with an attack unless there's a useful effect.
  24. Quegg

    Quegg

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    I'm really happy about Quag here getting Unaware; one of his biggest problems in my mind last gen is that he was really easy to set up on, so this should help mitigate that problem somewhat.

    He'll still have to run Water Absorb in Ubers though. Stopping setup isn't anywhere near as useful as keeping Kyogre in check.
  25. sensible

    sensible

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    Uuuh... Ever heard of Encore?

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