ORAS OU Quick Pass HO team [Peaked Top 10]

[escarlata]

Hi WebBowser, nice to see someone still using BP teams even after 2 nerfs and being successful with it. Have tested this on the ladder and had mixed results in terms of performance, but generally pretty consistent. Having said that, I have made some amendments to it which works better for me, and perhaps for you too, so you may want to have a try with it if interested.
1 thing that has been bothering me is Bisharp and Defiant Thundurus, both of which giving Latios a lot of trouble (less so the latter because Ice Beam). I would suggest Uxie over Latios for Dual Screen Memento. While Latios has offensive presence, but I feel that the general utility of Yawn allows for more opportunities to get both screens up and gives you more breathing room against Bisharp and the likes, and the general bulk increase is pretty handy too. Other than that, Wobbs should hold Sitrus Berry so it can avoid more 2HKOs in general since Wobbs is not likely to stay in for more than 4 turns for Leftovers to make up for the Sitrus Heal. Another thing is that you might consider dropping Extrasensory on Greninja for Spikes considering its main targets, i.e. Fighting types, Amoonguss and Venusaur basically gives a free sub to Scollipede anyway, and HP Fire Amoonguss/Venusaur still gives a free Light Screen.

So to summarise:

Suggested Changes

Dual Screen Latios -> Dual Screen Uxie
Lefties on Wobbs -> Sitrus Berry
Extrasensory on Greninja -> Spikes

Suggested Set

Uxie @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Memento
- Yawn

EVs allow you you to outrun Adamant Bisharp by 1 point, and rest is put into physical bulk. Feel free to go for a higher Spe though outspeeding Bisharp is enough imo (Bold 252 HP / 108 Def / 148 Spe is better than Timid 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe if you want to outspeed Jolly Bisharp too). 2 reasons to run this over Latios is better bulk and Yawn. The superior bulk means that LO Bisharp Knock Off is only a whooping 4HKO through Reflect, which means you can easily get both screens up, Yawn to force a switch, and proceed to Memento. Even if he doesn't switch, Bisharp is now asleep. The sheer utility of Yawn is not limited to Bisharp; when in conjunction with Spikes Greninja, you can force a lot of switches while setting up screens very easily. If they decide to KO Uxie, you would get a free turn to do whatever you like with Scollipede; or Yawning against anything that bothers Scollipede followed by Memento makes it super easy to get Iron Defense.

 

[WebBowser]

escarlata These are some really interesting and creative changes. I run extrasensory on gren because keld is a pain, but I agree that for the most part it's unnecessary. Spikes is an interesting option, if only to break sash and sturdy (I've lost a few games to sash-endeavor shennanigans). If I do replace extrasensory, it'll either be for dark pulse(cuz **** megabro) or spikes, I'll have to seriously consider the options. I hadn't seriously considered sitrus berry on Wobb, but your reasoning is sound, I like it a lot.

The one thing I'm not entirely sold on is duel screens Uxie. I chose latios for a lot of reasons. It's speed is great, it's unexpected, ice beam handles a lot of the more obnoxious threats like thundy and lando-i (and eventually megamence) should they attempt to stay in. I've literally never had any trouble with defiant thundy-i because even if I mispredict and give them a free +2, they still lack prankster taunt (and usually lack taunt in general) and I can just outboost them due to lack of SD and take an easy switch to my sweeper of choice. Bisharp is a bit more of a problem. Good news is that from behind a reflect, scoli gets a free swap into bishy, meaning that unless your opponent swaps bisharp into memento, no free +2. Bad news is that bisharp can boost with SD and can threaten espeon with KO, forcing me to go into zard. Bisharp is hardly the only mon capable of doing this, but it still sucks.

That all being said, yawn still might just be worth the loss of speed and being taunt bait (to be fair, the only reason why latios isn't taunt bait is because most people expect it to have something resembling an offensive presence). My team's core is becoming well enough known that most players know what to expect at team preview, and will usually send out their best check first. If I can force that check out and get scolipede in on darn near anything else, then I basically win (he only needs 1 free turn after all).

I'll have to test these changes before committing them to the RMT (when I have time... college op), but a lot of them look very promising, thank you.

P.S. I started building this team before even the first BP suspect in an attempt to draw attention to the amount of power scoli had on his own, without the support of other BPers. This team was a long time in coming and I am quite proud/horrified of it's overall effectiveness.

 

[locoghoul]

Scolipede: This guy is the main star of the show. He is insanely bulky even without screens on the physical side due to speedy IDs. With screens, he can get at least one ID off of anyone but taunt thundy and phazers. Subs is mostly there to screw over trickscarfers, which can stop an espeon sweep dead and cripple scolipede. That being said, I've ran rock slide in the past for zards and EQ for tran. Here's a few calcs I like to show off to show just how ridiculous this guy gets.

252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. +2 248 HP / 252+ Def Scolipede: 252-296 (78 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is basically showing that choiced phys mons simply will not prevent scoli from passing as long as he gets an ID up (unless your name is darmantian).

252+ Atk Choice Band Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scolipede: 159-187 (49.2 - 57.8%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Arceus Extreme Speed vs. +2 248 HP / 252+ Def Scolipede: 79-94 (24.4 - 29.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO

Here's the most powerful neutral priority in the game, fails to even check scoli, let alone counter. Megazors and Azumarils have no chance.

So you may be asking "why are these uber calcs relevant?" They are relevant because no physical mon in OU hits harder then these things, so attacking scolipede with a physical mon is quite possibly the worst thing you can do as he will more often then not laugh, and at absolute worst pass to one of his healthy teammates for a sweep. Any priority abuser not named talonflame or m-pinsir may as well not even switch in, and even powerful STAB stone edges often fail to make a dent into scoli. Unstabbed stone edges need'nt even be bothered with unless you are fishing for a crit.

252+ Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scolipede: 186-220 (57.5 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I have a small nitpick, CB Adamant Reckless Starambo would hit harder than those examples you've provided (Arceus ES is actually not that strong if unboosted). Just had to say it. You got a nice team and it's nice to see some development on a playstyle that has been ostracized by this community. Keep it up

 

[WebBowser]

I have a small nitpick, CB Adamant Reckless Starambo would hit harder than those examples you've provided (Arceus ES is actually not that strong if unboosted). Just had to say it. You got a nice team and it's nice to see some development on a playstyle that has been ostracized by this community. Keep it up

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. +2 248 HP / 252+ Def Scolipede: 288-338 (89.1 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

You are right, of course, but I showed uber calcs just because of the wow factor inherit in uber calcs (and a CB Ho-Oh BB is hardly a wimp slap by any standard you care to imagine). I did make a small error in forgetting about staraptor having a non-negligible chance of ohkoing, so I'll probably make a note somewhere in the post.

The point of Scolipede being able to tank even very powerful SE physical STABs still stands though, but thanks for reminding me of staraptor, who is actually OU relevant (something tells me adamant CB staraptor isn't going to catch on anytime soon tho, so we still safe :D).

For what it's worth, CB darm can actually ohko scoli, even at +2, but who uses that? He's not even on the viability rankings thread (which I think is a tad harsh, but w/e).

252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. +2 248 HP / 252+ Def Scolipede: 344-408 (106.5 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I do dislike how the community has treated BP users though. I think that the limited number of competent BP teambuilders is a large part of the reason why it's power went unrecognized for awhile, despite the huge buffs it got in scoli and to a lessor extent smeargle. I also strongly dislike the bad sportsmanship I occasionally see on the ladder. I don't care how frustrating or broken a playstyle is, that does not give anyone the right to be verbally abusive to another player.

But I digress, I assure you that I do not intend to hide anything pertaining to this team and that I have not artificially made calcs any more impressive then they are (i.e. I did not adjust the levels or manually change damage values in attempt to obscure the actual calc). I have zero intention of misleading anyone here about the power of any member of this team or the team as a whole.

Also note that on occasion I will update my team but forget to update the descriptions, leaving behind unintended artifacts. Please feel free to call me out on any of those artifacts if you see them.

 

[locoghoul]

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. +2 248 HP / 252+ Def Scolipede: 288-338 (89.1 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

You are right, of course, but I showed uber calcs just because of the wow factor inherit in uber calcs (and a CB Ho-Oh BB is hardly a wimp slap by any standard you care to imagine). I did make a small error in forgetting about staraptor having a non-negligible chance of ohkoing, so I'll probably make a note somewhere in the post.

The point of Scolipede being able to tank even very powerful SE physical STABs still stands though, but thanks for reminding me of staraptor, who is actually OU relevant (something tells me adamant CB staraptor isn't going to catch on anytime soon tho, so we still safe :D).

For what it's worth, CB darm can actually ohko scoli, even at +2, but who uses that? He's not even on the viability rankings thread (which I think is a tad harsh, but w/e).

252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. +2 248 HP / 252+ Def Scolipede: 344-408 (106.5 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I do dislike how the community has treated BP users though. I think that the limited number of competent BP teambuilders is a large part of the reason why it's power went unrecognized for awhile, despite the huge buffs it got in scoli and to a lessor extent smeargle. I also strongly dislike the bad sportsmanship I occasionally see on the ladder. I don't care how frustrating or broken a playstyle is, that does not give anyone the right to be verbally abusive to another player.

But I digress, I assure you that I do not intend to hide anything pertaining to this team and that I have not artificially made calcs any more impressive then they are (i.e. I did not adjust the levels or manually change damage values in attempt to obscure the actual calc). I have zero intention of misleading anyone here about the power of any member of this team or the team as a whole.

Also note that on occasion I will update my team but forget to update the descriptions, leaving behind unintended artifacts. Please feel free to call me out on any of those artifacts if you see them.

I have caught some bp teams off guard with it a couple of times, thought of sharing.

Regarding the whole anti-bp sentiment, well, what can you do when the mods themselves are against adapting to a playstyle? I'm ok with ppl insulting each other on the interwebz, it has happened since '95, it's gonna happen all the time. The real issue is, how looked down upon the strat is. I believe the first nerf would have been enough if there had been some willingness to recognize BP chains as a threatening archetype. Instead, people moved over thinking not to face them ever again. Like, you just had a suspect ladder nerfing it and you honestly don't make a single change in your team? Like 1 move in one poke out of 4x6 total combined moves is too much to ask apparently. Don't get me started on the zealotry-esque terminology most people use nowadays too.

 

[WebBowser]

Alright, so I got done testing Uxie over Latios, and the main issue wasn't speed or bulk but typing. Simply put, the resistances dragon gives me are far too good to pass up, allowing me to setup in the face of things like Keldeo and Zard-Y, which Uxie simply cannot do.

So yeah, Uxie simply does not make the cut. If anyone wants to attempt to recreate this team in lower tiers though, Uxie is a fine screen setter and would probably be my first choice. It's just that latios is ever so slightly better here in OU.

 

[escarlata]

I understand your concerns with Keldeo, Zard Y and what not, and made the suggestion with them in mind. During my playtesting with your team with Uxie over Latios, I would just Yawn on the first attack, and attempt to get either screen up on the next turn on the predicted switch. If they switch, there is the possibility of getting the other screen up, or Memento; if not, Uxie is KOed but Scollipede gets a free sub up against a sleeping opponent. I acknowledge that this is a more reckless way of doing things, but I personally like how abusable Yawn is as a whole (though this means several potential 2HKOs should be kept in mind). Overall, Latios and Uxie just have a slight edge over each other against different opponents, so it is down to which one you are more comfortable/familiar with rather than which is better; whichever you settle with, I respect that decision, but just gonna mention this yuh.

 

[WebBowser]

Hey guys, I want to announce that I have updated my team in prep for ORAS, yay! The most surprising thing about the team was just how little it wound up changing, I didn't even change the mega (megabro and mega sable are simply too slow). However, Greninja got a total makeover and it is awesome, giving my team 4 whopping leads! (Latios, Scoli, Greninja, Wobb). This greatly increases the number of options you have during those crucial first few turns, which is great.

Here's the ninja set

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Gunk Shot
- Low Kick

I'm still gathering good replays of me on the ORAS ladder, but until then, enjoy this mirror matchup against a new friend!

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-180050824

Good to see other people being successful with this team.

 

[WebBowser]

Whelp, Graninja is now banned and this team has lost an important glue mon. This means that I now need to start finding another mon to take his place. Here's what I need my gren replacement to do...

1. It needs to be able to revenge kill most/all notable special threats. This includes mega gard, keldeo, lando-i and CMers.

2. It needs to be fast enough that it encourages priority abusers and scarfmons to come out and revenge it. I'd like for it to be at least base 112 to outspeed thundy-I.

3. It needs to be able to achieve those things without a scarf, scarf mons are too easy to check for my liking.

U-Turn/Volt Switch is a plus but isn't necessary.

I'm thinking either Zam or Azelf.

 

[Patolegend!]

Whelp, Graninja is now banned and this team has lost an important glue mon. This means that I now need to start finding another mon to take his place. Here's what I need my gren replacement to do...

1. It needs to be able to revenge kill most/all notable special threats. This includes mega gard, keldeo, lando-i and CMers.

2. It needs to be fast enough that it encourages priority abusers and scarfmons to come out and revenge it. I'd like for it to be at least base 112 to outspeed thundy-I.

3. It needs to be able to achieve those things without a scarf, scarf mons are too easy to check for my liking.

U-Turn/Volt Switch is a plus but isn't necessary.

I'm thinking either Zam or Azelf.

Hi WebBowser, I used your team to get reqs for the Suspect test and actually used both Weavile and Lead terrakion, although scarf could also work; everything used to check Scarf Rak is easily exploitable by Scoli. I like the fast Taunt though, as it helped avoid rocks being set up without damaging espeon, while also allowing Scoli to boost up against something that couldn't boost against it.

Weavile also puts in a lot of work, revenging the threats you mentioned, apart from Keldeo, while also drawing in Scizor for Scoli to set up on.

 

[WebBowser]

Hey Patolegend! Good to see that people are still using this team and being successful with it. I actually completely missed the Gren suspect (IRL stuff), but I can imagine with it being a starter mon and all it drew in a lot of players, so seeing people make reqs with this team makes me feel good.

Out of curiosity, who did lead terrakion replace? I'd imagine that it would serve a similar role that wobb currently serves (swapping into phasers to taunt them and make them setup bait for scoli).

I've been experimenting with weavile myself, and while it definitely puts in work I'm mad out of practice and threw a lot of winnable matches. Kind of an odd feeling having to relearn your own team.

*edit*

This just in, contrary serperior is a thing now. Apparently I can now have a setup sweeper AND revenge killer in one package, has decent bulk to boot. Ayup, definitely giving this a shot.

 

[Patolegend!]

I used them both in Greninja's slot tbh; as it was for reqs, it worked pretty well. It also gives you shedloads of momentum from the get-go; taunting then switching into Wobb is pretty satisfying :) I started off with Weavile, but ended up with Lead Rak; I preferred the early game pressure.

 

[WebBowser]

I've actually found a really nice terrakion set that suits my purposes quite nicely.

Terrakion @ Lum Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Iron Head
- Taunt

Basically, screw fairies, screw thundy, and screw heatran. Lum Berry is for thundy and sable, and taunt is to shut down walls. Most of the things that can outspeed it either fail to ohko or are handled by Latios.

Here's a great replay of Terrak doing work.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-202270469

I'll update the OP sometime later today or tomorrow.

On a side note, I experimented a bit with Serperior, but apparently sticking another heatran weak mon in a team that already has trouble with him is a bad idea.

*edit*

Alrighty folks, just wanted to let you know that Terrakion is IN! Had a bunch of good games where he did exactly what I needed him to do, so I'm very happy to introduce him into the team. I have a few replays with the new team with my usual in depth explanations for each.

As always, let me know if you see anything off! Cheers!

 

[_Mew2King_]

you are allowed to bump just once

 

[WebBowser]

oops, my apologies. I'll fix that now.

 

[quagback2qc]

So, you replaced Terrak with Mega Aero I'm assuming.

 

[WebBowser]

Yes I did. Note that lately I've been experimenting with trying to find a decent Ttar lure to bait him out and make my espeon safer. Right now I'm looking at aura sphere raikou.

 

[Joetaku]

Man I love this team! It gets the job done. That CM Clefable is the only thing that's given me REAL trouble so far. Trick Scarf Rotom-W lead against lati, causes a slight problem as well, limiting you to either switching, or having to choose one screen, or use momento. I was wondering what you do to get around this small hindrance?

 

[WebBowser]

Man I love this team! It gets the job done. That CM Clefable is the only thing that's given me REAL trouble so far. Trick Scarf Rotom-W lead against lati, causes a slight problem as well, limiting you to either switching, or having to choose one screen, or use momento. I was wondering what you do to get around this small hindrance?

If you predict the rotom lead, then you can counter lead with scolipede. Scoli can easily take any of his hits (sans invested specs hydro pump), does not care about WoW, cares a little bit about twave (you can sub if you predict it, but if he gets you on the ID just BP out the next turn and hope that your recipient walls his entire team). Scolipede can scout the trick with protect(it's not like rotom-w can setup in any meaningful manner), potentially giving your mega of choice a free swap in (maybe less helpful for mega aero, but it's something). If you wanna gamble on outspeeding rotom-w, you can try to block the trick with protect + subs (risky move if you don't have +2 speed on the subs attempt). Note that fully invested scarf rotom-w does outspeed scolipede, you need 48 speed EVs to outspeed nuetral nature 252 speed scarftom and 156 speed EVs to outspeed pos natured (at which point you should seriously consider running timid scoli).

In case you care:

0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scolipede: 108-127 (33.4 - 39.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scolipede: 168-198 (52 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scolipede: 147-174 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scolipede: 231-273 (71.5 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If your latios gets led into by rotom-w, I personally would just light screen, eat the trickscarf, hard swap into scolipede, and have latios memento later. There really aren't any better swap ins for rotom-w on this team then scoli behind a light screen.

 

[Joetaku]

If you predict the rotom lead, then you can counter lead with scolipede. Scoli can easily take any of his hits (sans invested specs hydro pump), does not care about WoW, cares a little bit about twave (you can sub if you predict it, but if he gets you on the ID just BP out the next turn and hope that your recipient walls his entire team). Scolipede can scout the trick with protect(it's not like rotom-w can setup in any meaningful manner), potentially giving your mega of choice a free swap in (maybe less helpful for mega aero, but it's something). If you wanna gamble on outspeeding rotom-w, you can try to block the trick with protect + subs (risky move if you don't have +2 speed on the subs attempt). Note that fully invested scarf rotom-w does outspeed scolipede, you need 48 speed EVs to outspeed nuetral nature 252 speed scarftom and 156 speed EVs to outspeed pos natured (at which point you should seriously consider running timid scoli).

In case you care:

0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scolipede: 108-127 (33.4 - 39.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scolipede: 168-198 (52 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scolipede: 147-174 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scolipede: 231-273 (71.5 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If your latios gets led into by rotom-w, I personally would just light screen, eat the trickscarf, hard swap into scolipede, and have latios memento later. There really aren't any better swap ins for rotom-w on this team then scoli behind a light screen.

Okay, thanks. I did notice that the light screen, and then the momento later worked decently. Thanks for the response.