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Qwilfish (Analysis) [QC 0/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Zephyr, Jan 4, 2011.

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  1. Zephyr

    Zephyr Life Stream
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    [​IMG]

    Qwilfish


    Status: 0/2 QC Approved
    --------------------



    [OVERVIEW]
    <p>In 4th gen Qwilfish played a niche role as a Rain sweeper, or Toxic Spiker in the lower tiers. He could boast universally neutral STAB coverage and was able to heavily damage Celebi and deal with other bulky Waters, something many other Rain sweepers lacked. When the Rain was ending Qwilfish could Explode potentially killing another opponent and allowing a free switch in for your Rain setup. But a lot changed for Qwilfish in 5th gen. Politoed's emergence of an OU Drizzler was a boon to the puffer fish, as has the Dream World obtained Intimidate. Unfortunately Explosion's damage being cut in half and the creation of Nattorei and Burungeru (who resist Poison / Water / Normal) put a huge damper on Qwilfish. However in the right conditions it can be used to great effect on both Rain teams, and stall as one of the best Blaziken counters in the game. Qwilfish separates itself from other swift swimmers with its ability to pick up Toxic spikes, a major threat to a rain team's survivability, and also boasts more speed then some of the more popular swimmers, not to mention its the only swift swimmer that has the ability to spike, let alone toxic spike. Qwilfish can also pull off decent defensive sets as well, despite being outclassed, it still has some surprise value and can be quite unpredictable. These give it great diversity to the rest of its rain swimming brethren. </p>



    [SET]
    name:Poison Fish
    move 1:Poison Jab
    move 2:Waterfall
    move 3:Destiny Bond
    move 4:spikes
    item: Balloon
    nature: Jolly/Adamant
    Ev's: 252 Atk/ 252 speed/ 6 def


    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>There isn't much to Qwilfish, so you should never really be "surprised" by it. With Rain in effect you have a rather effective STAB move in the form of Waterfall. Poison jab acts as your secondary stab hitting many resists of waterfall. With rain up Qwilfish is essentially the faster spiker in the game, Destiny Bond lets you have a shot at taking down one of the opponents pokemon with you at the end. Balloon is a great item in temporarily removing one of Qwilfish's main weaknesses, letting you safely switch in or spike more efficiently. Using Jolly will allow you to still outpace a fair amount of the slower sweepers in the metagame should Rain Dance be removed from the field, where as you can vouch for Adamant for superior attacking effectiveness. Once rain dance is put up via your setup pokemon(or even an opponent due to the rain rampage currently wreaking havoc in the metagame) You have immediate access to double speed and 1.5x damage onto your water STAB move, this alone gives the fish considerable ability to do damage. Besides for Qwilfish's offensive capabilities, laying down spikes help's considerably for the rest of the Swift swimmers, because pokemon such as kingdra force alot of switches in order to try and weather its attacks, the spikes damage accumulated from switching helps keep immense offensive pressure and turning possbile 2hkos and 3hkos into OHKOs and 2hkos respectively.</p>



    [SET]
    name: Dancing Fish
    move 1: Waterfall
    move 2: Swords Dance
    move 3: Poison Jab
    move 4:explosion / Destiny bond / Taunt
    item: Life orb/Balloon
    nature: adamant
    EV's: 252 Atk/ 252 speed

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>This set isn't much different from the set above, except it's trying to be a little more offensive. Explosions nerf in this gen makes it very unused and there is not many pokemon that can still make effective use of it, although after a Swords Dance, Qwilfish can put quite a dent into anything that takes damage from it, though you can use Destiny Bond, or even Taunt as an option to help you get past Burungeru without being instanstly stopped and stalled from WoW + recover. after a single Swords Dance, combined with LO and rain in effect courtesy of Politoed(or whoever else is a source of rain) plus STAB, Qwilfish is suddenly a threat to most teams. The main pokemon that can stop this set include Storm Drain Gastrodon, Quagsire, and Water Absorb Gamageroge(Dream World) so its good to try and remove these pokemon from the opponents team before attempting an all out sweep, luckily these 3 pokemon aren't horribly common, and Ludicolo can switch in and handle them. Again, the rain boost will mean waterfall will already operate on a 1.5x ratio, so after a Swords Dance, Waterfall will effectively be at triple the offensive power.</p>


    [SET]
    name:Defensive Puffer
    move 1:Thunder Wave
    move 2:Spikes / Toxic Spikes
    move 3:Waterfall/Boiling Water
    move 4:Protect
    item:Leftovers
    nature: Impish
    ability: Intimidate
    Ev's: 252 HP/ 252 Defense/ 6 SpD


    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Qwilfish has an underestimated defensive potential. Its so bulky that Scarf Garchomp fails to 2hko(possibly fails to even 3hko depending on damage roll after the turns of leftovers recovery) with Outrage and Blaziken tops at 35% with Thunder Punch, less with its other moves. Qwilfish works similar to a physically defensive Tentacruel without Rapid Spin and with much, MUCH worse Special Defense. Thunder Wave tears down the the opponent's sweepers, while playing with protect you can pick up leftovers recovery letting you have a lot of control over you're opponents attempts at damaging you physically. Maximum Ev's into its HP and defense stats combined with Impish nature allows you optimal survivability from physical assaults. Leftovers is the best item option here as it lets you gain a considerable amount of hp over the various turns. Latios and Latias make great partner's for this set as they both resist electric attacks and are immune to Ground moves, which then they can take use of the spikes Qwilfish lays out in order to deal lots of damage to the opposing team, Flygon also makes a good partner to Qwilfish, being immune to both of the type weakness, most dragon pokemon in general are good partners for Qwilfish.</p>


    [SET]
    name:Defensive Pivot
    move 1:Spikes / Toxic Spikes
    move 2:Boiling Water / Taunt
    move 3:Pain Split
    move 4:Substitute
    item: Leftovers / Black Sludge
    nature: Bold
    Ev's: 252 HP / 252 Def/ 6 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Switch in Qwilfish on a physical attacker/wall, cause a switch and Substitute. Use the Spikes of your choice as your Substitute takes a hit, then Substitute back up.
    Even with Max HP, it only has 334 HP which isn't so high, especially after a few hits, making Pain Split usable. Boiling Water is usable for lowering the foe's attack further through some Burns, and Spikes allows it to take advantage of it's defensive role and cause some entry hazards. Toxic Spikes can be used, but at that point it would be better to just use Tentacruel. Taunt can also be used, but would be better on a faster set.</p>



    [Team Options]
    <p>Basically put, Qwilfish is a lack luster pokemon, and for any offensive set, the only way to find an effective home would be on a Rain Dance team. The thing about Qwilfish is he has alot of rough competition in the form of the other Swift Swimmers. A key niche is resisting most of the common priority moves giving it better chances at getting a decent sweep. Furthermore it mostly competes for a spot with Kabutops, although Kabutops is usually the preferred pokemon of 4th gen(and possibly 5th gen) Qwilfish does diverge with the ability to pick up toxic spikes, which can whittle down a Rains team lifespan by quite a bit. To have an easier time sweeping with Qwilfish, its recommended to have Stealth Rock and Spikes up. Ludicolo is also one of its best partners, as Swampert and Quagsire are both easily handles by this swift swimming partner.</p>


    [Optional Changes]
    <p>There really isn't much out there for our little fish friend. You do have access to Aqua Jet as a form of STAB priority. You can attempt to run very gimmicky things like Sash + Counter, although if you wanted to do that, there are many better options then Qwilfish for such a set.
    Aqua Jet is definitely usable on Qwilfish though, as once Rain Dance goes down, you can retain high speeds, and also functions as added priority for your team.</p>


    [Counters]
    <p>Once under the rain, its hard to switch out to something that can take an attack from Qwilfish as it Swords Dances. Nattorei and Burungeru is a good defensive core to attempt to silence the fish's assault.
    Slowbro can switch into Swords Dance or even +2 rain boosted Waterfall (assuming no hazards up), take a +2 Poison Jab, and survive to OHKO with Psychic or status it.
    Trying to bring in a weather changer into the right attack can also stop it.(like Tyranitar into Poison Jab or Abomasnow into Waterfall)
    There are also lesser used pokemon that can stop Qwilfish in its tracks, these include Toxicroak and Quagsire, they both absorb its waterfall, and resist its secondary stab, poison jab. If you don't allow Qwilfish to set up, Swampert can also handily dispose of the puffer. Empoleon can switch into qwilfish easily, but with Roar or Earthquake(both uncommon) it does not have much to retaliate with.</p>


    [Dream World]
    <p>Qwilfish has been given access to Intimidate making a defensive set interestingly possible, and is generally a good ability to have regardless.</p>
  2. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    What can Qwilfish do that other Rain Dancers (specifically Kabutops) can't?

    Does it really deserve an OU analysis?
  3. Zephyr

    Zephyr Life Stream
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    I referenced that above. It has a few niches but has a hard time competing for a team spot.

    Examples being a defensive set, being able to Destiny bond/explode on something it cant outright kill, and can be an offensive spiker.

    Anyways, I figured I'd do an analysis on a lesser used pokemon, and hey its smogon so we might as well get an analysis on everything eventually anyways.
  4. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    I understand and appreciate your enthusiasm, but does Qwilfish deserve an "OU" analysis at the time?

    That's the real question we have to answer.
  5. LizardMan

    LizardMan A mo so true.
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    It does quite well against Birijion, and absorbs Toxic Spikes which makes it different from the other Swift Swimmers.

    The first set should probably have a Focus Sash, since it seems like a suicide lead. But is Swift Swim really enough to consider using it over something like Smeargle/that new bug spiker?

    Another cool thing about Qwilfish is that it can outrun Scarfed Latias/Latios in Rain, and speed tie Kingdra. It also has different resistences, which make it different from other Swift Swimmers.

    Edit:Looks like you can't write about this.

    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83606
  6. Zephyr

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    Probably not, but its been done already.
  7. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    It CAN outrun those threats, but can it handle them offensively? Can it do anything to threaten them?
  8. LizardMan

    LizardMan A mo so true.
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    Yes, a +2 Poison Jab can OHKO Latias/Latios/Kingdra after Stealth Rock.
  9. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck i am woodchuck
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    That's not relevant. At all.

    Also, what's the calc on MixKen's HP Electric vs. that defensive set? Or is MixKen not common enough of a Blaziken set to be worth a mention?
  10. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    No, it isn't.

    93.4% - 110.2%.
  11. Calm Pokemaster

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    Minor nitpick, the correct formst for EVs is HP / Atk / Def / SpA / SpD / Spe.

    Remove the spaces between the end of paragraphs and the corresponding </p> tags.
  12. Zephyr

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    I don't think its near common enough.(I've never even seen one at all myself)

    Also carrying on, Qwilfish also picks up Toxic spikes, lays out spikes, and can use a defensive set, I'm sure that's plenty of diversity with kabutops.

    I should also mention another key point is that Kabutops is completely countered by Nattorei, where as Qwilfish is not.
  13. LizardMan

    LizardMan A mo so true.
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    Qwilfish can also explode. Not one pokemon in gen 4 had a Counter Sash analysis, unless you were a lead anyway.

    Rain is a top tier threat in gen 5 at the moment, and Qwilfish has some selling points to make it a different yet effective choice. Not sure if it deserves an OU analysis, but it is definitly better than Counter Sash Clefable. Clefable is just better off doing other things.


    Kabutops has Superpower, which at +0 does around 65% to Nattorei IIRC. At +2, it is a guaranteed OHKO.
  14. Zephyr

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    Thanks, will make changes. If anyone else sees anything wrong or wants to add, feel free to.
  15. Alan

    Alan

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    Shut up Aaaaahhhh.....Clefable, Qwilfish is perfectly acceptable in OU due to rain and its got pretty decent stats/typing. However, I think Jolly should be slashed with Adamant on the SD set, so that it can outspeed specific threats while not in rain (Heatran, speed-tying with Kingdra, Suicune, etc as well as outspeed Dragonite).

    Also these paragraphs need to be a lot better..... this is barely better than a skeleton.

    A spiker set with these EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD / 4 Spe is probably still good. It worked in DPP OU pretty well, should still work, Def and SpD might need to be shuffled around a bit.
  16. Zephyr

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    Thanks for the positive criticism. Yeah the paragraphs are still in work which is why I haven't changed the name of the thread to include QC yet.
  17. jrp

    jrp wanker of the highest order

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    Clefable, a level one smeargle can run countersash, that arguement is completely irrelevant.
    that post is useless, as are your arguements.
    Qwilfish is an incredible and underlooked rain sweeper, and if drizzle does not get banned, it can be a massive threat, lacking the 4x grass weakness of kabutops, being neutral to grass. It can absorb toxic spikes, which can be the bane for many teams.
    I think qwilfish deserves an analysis.
  18. Farewell

    Farewell

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    REMEMBER: Taunt can go on the sets above to be different from other Swfit Swimmers.


    A true Defensive set with:

    Set Name: Defensive Pivot
    Qwilfish: @ Leftovers / Black Sludge [Item Clause / Mono Poison Team]
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Nature: Bold (+Def, - Atk)
    Ability: Intimidate

    Spikes / Toxic Spikes
    Boiling Water / Taunt
    Pain Split
    Substitute
    / Stockpile

    Switch in Qwilfish on a physical attacker/wall, Intimidate, cause a switch and Substitute. Use the Spikes of your choice as your Substitute takes a hit, then Substitute back up.

    Even with Max HP, it only has 334 HP which isn't so high, especially after a few hits, making Pain Split usable. Boiling Water is usable for lowering the foe's attack further through some Burns, and Spikes allows it to take advantage of it's defensive role and cause some entry hazards. Toxic Spikes can be used, but at that point it would be better to just use Tentacruel. Taunt can also be used, but would be better on a faster set.

    The choice for the last move is really dependent on your team, Stockpile works like a Weezing set would, as it increases your defenses, and is especially useful if the foe you Intimidated switches out. Substitute is used as the foe switches out, so you can scout, and safely lay down Spikes.
  19. Zephyr

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    Thank you for the support. :)

    @hhjj thanks for the addition, I'll go ahead and add it in.
  20. Heist

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    yeah you definitely need to fix a lot of the prose in this, although it should all be done nicely when it gets gp checked. refrain from using stuff such as "you" etc. remember to capitalise all moves and pokemon names as well. alot isnt a word and dont fully capitalise a word.

    i see that you probably need to add a bit more onto each set.

    for the first set mention team options that abuse spikes and work especially well under rain. kingdra is notorious for forcing switches when rain is up, so that, alongside a number of other pokemon deserve mentions. also talk about how all other weather starters take maximum damage from spikes so they can be weakened via this entry hazard. i think you should probably wait until suspect testing round 2 ends before really continuing to work on this set, as there is an incredibly high chance drizzle will be banned, and qwilfish loses a lot from that.

    defensive set should mention how its generally outclassed although it does have an incredibly small niche. you can talk about how latias/latios make good partners for any set with spikes as they love to abuse it with their powerful dragon-type attacks. they also have great synergy with it [resist elec/ground etc and qwilfish can take on problem pokemon like scizor with limited success].

    i definitely think you should wait for the verdict on drizzle before wasting too much time on this analysis, though.
  21. Zephyr

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    Alright, I'm glad I asked you for this. I'll go ahead and add some team suggestions.
  22. A Man In Black

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    Slowbro can switch into Swords Dance or even +2 rain boosted Waterfall (assuming no hazards up), take a +2 Poison Jab, and survive to OHKO with Psychic or nearly OHKO with Thunderbolt or apply status of some sort.

    Storm Drain Gastrodon is about as hard as hard counters get. Even if Qwilfish still has its Balloon, in the rain +1 Gastrodon can 2HKO back with Surf, while +2 Poison Jab is a 3-4HKO.

    Both Water Absorb and Unaware Quagsire can counter Qwilfish; rain-boosted Waterfall doesn't 2HKO Unaware Quagsire.

    0/0 neutral nature Empoleon is never OHKOed by +2 rain-boosted Waterfall, but it needs Roar or Earthquake (both uncommon moves) to stop Qwilfish.

    In Dream World matches, Water Absorb Gamageroge also counters Qwilfish handily.
  23. Zephyr

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    Thanks for the pointers, will be adding them in.
  24. LizardMan

    LizardMan A mo so true.
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    I think Rest/Talk needs a mention since Qwilfish lacks reliable recovery. Other than that, I think it is pretty much ready for QC to take a wack at it.

    If it passes, GP can take care of some grammar errors/poor wording.
  25. Zephyr

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    Alright well after a few opinions from some good people and looking at some other analysis, I think this is about ready for QC.
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