rain dance in the 5 gen

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by forestflamerunner, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner
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    A rain dance thread has been much overdue, and since no one else has made one, i think i will do so now. this thread is meant to discuss the viability of rain dance in the fifth generation.

    Effects

    • increases damage from water type attacks by 50%
    • decreases damage from fire type attacks by 50%
    • solar beam's base power is halved
    • thunder and hurricane are 100% accurate
    • pokemon with swift swim get their speed doubled
    • pokemon with dry skin recover 12.5% of their hp each turn
    • pokemon with hydration recover from stattus at the end of every turn, even self inflicted status conditions
    • weather ball bbecomes a 100 base power water type move
    • pokemon with rain dish recover 6.25% of health
    • pokemon with the forecast ability become a water type
    • synthesis moonlight and morning sun only recover 25% of their health

    The Pokemon

    as you can see, water types gain the most from the rain. however, some steel types gain quite a bit from the rain as well since they have one of their weaknesses( fire attacks) nuetralized. ice and grass types benefit for similar reasons. thanks to hydration and dry skin pokes, rain stall is now a definite possibility. i will split the thread up into two sections: offensive rain abusers, that use swift swim, the increased accuracy of hurricane and thunder, and the inrease in water type attacks to punch holes is opposing teams, and defensive abusers that use hydration, toxic, dry skin, waters great defensive typing, and the reduced power of fire type attacks to help whittle down the opponent. both of these pokes can be used on the same team for balence, or exclusively for either hyper offense or stall team types.

    offensive

    [​IMG]

    Politoed @ Choice Specs/scarf
    Timid/Modest
    Drizzle
    252 Sp.Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
    Hydro Pump / Boiling Water / Surf
    Ice Beam
    Focus Blast
    Hidden Power Grass/Electric

    pretty much a mandate for any rain team. specs toad provides offensive pressure right off the bat thanks to choice specs. drizzle and choice specs raise hydro pumps power to such an extent that most pokemon will be at worst 2HKO'ed (excluding some special walls. hypro pump can be replaced with surf for a more accurate stab or boiling water, though boiling water is somewhat inferior on a choiced set. the next three moves are for coverage. ice beam is for dragons which you can probably outspeed if you are using choice scarf, focus blast is for ttar, while the last slot is for either swampert or gyarados, depending on if you choose hp grass or hp electric respectively.

    [​IMG]

    Kingdra @ Life Orb
    Nature: Jolly/Adamant
    Ability: Swift Swim
    6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
    ~Dragon Dance
    ~Waterfall
    ~Outrage
    ~Substitute

    probably the most powerful rain dance sweeper out there. swift swim doubles its speed to astounding hights, which are then only boosted further by dragon dance. substitute is there to prevent status from interrupting your sweep, outrage for the dragon stab, waterfall to gain the rain boost and attack steel types that resist outrage, and dragon dance to boost stats.

    [​IMG]

    Kabutops @Life Orb
    Swift Swim
    6hp/252SPA/252Spe
    adamant
    -Swords Dance
    -Aqua Jet
    -Stone Edge/Superpower
    -Waterfall

    kabutops can raise its attack stat to great hightsthanks to sword dance. addi on stab rain boosted aqua jet and you become a killing machine. waterfall is for a more powerful stab option and stone edge provides yet another stab though you may want to use superpower over stone edge to take on natorrei, something rain has trouble against. furthermore, if you so wish you can use stealth rock and rapid spin on kabutops for support options on hyper offense teams.

    [​IMG]

    ludicolo@life orb
    swift swim
    32HP/252SPA/224SPE
    modest
    surf/hydro pump
    energy ball
    ice beam
    brick break

    most swift swimmers are primarily physically offensive. ludicolo provides one of the few viable special swift swimmers. it has great defensive typing allowing for multiple switches and its base 90 SPA provide a base for your sweep. surf/hypdro pump are your primary stab, while energy ball takes care of bulky waters that get in your way. ice beam is mostly for dragons and other flyings and brick break is to deal with ttar and special walls.

    [​IMG]
    dragonite @ Life Orb
    Ability: Multi Scale
    Nature: Rash
    Evs: 252 SpA, 72 Atk, 184 Spd
    -roost
    -Thunder
    -Windstorm
    -Outrage

    dragonite is one of the best dragons on a raindance team, excluding kingdra. with its new ability, multi scale, lets it take %)% damage when at full health. compine that with roost, and you have an exceptionally bulky dragon. thunder is used to take care of bulky waters and random flying pokes and outrage is for powerful stab. windstorm gets 100% accuracy in rain and helps take out roopushin, and hits nattorei the hardest of all of these moves.

    [​IMG]

    scizor@choice band
    technician
    248HP/252ATK/8SPE
    adamant
    bullet punch
    uturn
    superpower
    pursuit

    the infamous CB scizor. in the rain, fire type attacks aare weakened and he is all the more deadly because of it. he can function as a great counter to various dragon types thanks to his typing and stab technician boosted bullet punch. uturn can really help with switching and makes it really easy to get in your favorite sweeper. pursuit helps deal with latias and other psychics while superpower is there to deal with other steel types.

    [​IMG]
    latios@lifeorb
    levitate
    4HP/252SPA/252SPE/timid
    dragon pulse
    thunder
    psycho shock
    recover

    latios works exceptionally well on rain dance teams. it packs resistances to both electric and grass attacks which is very useful for a rain dance team. dragon pulse is for obligatory stab, thunder is used to abuse the rain, and psychoshock is to help get around special walls like blissey. recover is used for bulk and to prevent lifeorb recoil from adding up to quickly.
    [​IMG]

    dugtrio@choice band
    arena trao
    4HP/252ATK/252SPE
    sucker punch
    earthquake
    stone edge
    memento

    a rain dance trapper. dugtrio can easily dispell of 4 of the five weather inducers, the exception being hippodon. earthquake cleans up politoed, ninetails, and ttar most of the time and stone edge massacres abomasnow. sucker punch is there mainly to help deal with some troublesome psychics like starmie, while momento can be used to help set up a sweep when dugtrio nears its dimise. just be sure not to use memento too quickly.

    defensive

    [​IMG]

    manaphy@ life orb
    hydration
    252SPA/176SP/80hp
    tail glow
    rest
    ice beam
    surf

    manaphy is somewhat of a balence between offensive and defensive. 100/100/100 defenses are nothing to scoff at but tail glow is hard to overlook. I'm putting it in defense, so whatever. tail glow raises your special attack by +3, allowing you to do significant damge to even natorrei with surf, especially with a rain dance boost. ice beam is there mostly for coverage while rest is there to abuse hydration, which cures manaphy of its sleep each turn.

    [​IMG]

    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    -Surf/Boiling Water
    -Wish
    -Protect
    -Roar/Hidden Power [electric]/Ice Beam


    wish support for a rain dance team. hydration is an option, but generally manaphy is better as a hydration abuser. thanks to th changes wish underwent, it now restores half of Vaporeons HP. this means thatt vaporeon can pass 242 hp wishes to its teammates which is incredibly useful. boiling water is used to spread burns and for some stab while wish/protect are there to ensure recovery for vaporeon. roar is there to help phase and general utility, but if your team needs help with dragons or gyarados, ice bean and hp electric are options respectively.
    [​IMG]


    (Parasect) (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - X-Scissor/Aromatherapy/Aerial Ace
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Spore

    the new primier subseeder for rain dance teams. ludicolo is now outclassed thanks to parasects since drizzle always keeps parasects ability, dry skin, active. x- scissor provides solid stab, though you can use aromatherapy for team support though it leaves you vulnerable to taunt. substitute and leach seed are self explanatory while spore provides guaranteed sleep, which also allows to put a sub up with ease. noteworthy fact is that, when it is raining, parasect actually gains hp on the turn it uses substitute thanks to dry skin, leach seed and leftovers.

    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel
    Rain Dish
    Black Sludge
    Calm
    252 hp, 252 Special Defense
    Surf
    Toxic Spikes
    Acid Bomb/Giga Drain
    Rapid Spin/Giga Drain

    Basic idea for any Tentacruel. Toxic Spikes to help you wittle the enemy for your team, Rapid Spin to save your team from hazard damage. The attacking moves, I use surf as boiling water is useless if your poisoning your enemy with the toxic spikes. Acid Bomb and Giga Drain are both awesome. Giga drain gives you great recovery, and Acid Bomb is just amazing in general, especially when the enemy switches into it.

    [​IMG]
    Zapdos
    Pressure (Volt Absorb if it gets released)
    Left Overs
    Calm/Bold
    252 HP, Rest of EV's into defense of your choice
    Thunder
    Substitute
    Roost
    Toxic/HP Ice/HP Grass

    This is the basic Sub Roost set. No need for heat wave due to it being in a rain team. This is a GREAT addition as it resists both GRASS and ELECTRIC type attacks that would be aimed at your other water types. Thunder with 100% accuracy in the rain. Toxic away and start sub roosting. Toxic is a good choice, but if you have toxic spikes on your team you can have room for more coverage through Hidden Power.

    [​IMG]
    Slowbro/Leftovers
    Regeneration
    Bold/252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    ~ Slack Off
    ~ Surf
    ~ Ice Beam / Psychic / HP Electric
    ~ Thunder Wave / Toxic / Yawn

    has gotten a real boost this generation. with regeneration, it gains 33% of its hp upon switching out. combine that with slack off and you have a pretty sturdy wall. slack off is for recovery and surf is your primary stab. you then have your choice of status infliction.thunder wayve is better for offensive teams while toxic is good for stall. yawn can be used mostly to stop sweepers in their tracks. the choice between ice beam, hp electric, and psychic is entirely based on what your team needs remmoved. ice beam deals with all your dragans weith ease, hp electric takes on bulky waters while psychic mostly takes car of roopushin.

    [​IMG]

    Natorei
    Steel Thorns
    Left Overs
    Careful/Impish
    252 HP, Rest of EV's into defense of your choice
    Power Whip
    Thunder Wave/Spikes/Stealth Rock
    Leech Seed
    Protect/Spikes/Stealth Rock


    Typical Wall set. He resists the grass/electrric attacks aimed at the waters in a raindance team, and also benefits from the decrease in damage from fire type attacks. Another basic walling set, as with leech seed and left overs, he can get a few layers of spikes up with out dropping quickly at all. Thunderwave is also a great choice for incoming switches, although it really isn't THAT necessary as if you are running swift swimmers you are most likely going to outspeed the enemy anyways.


    [​IMG]

    Foretress
    Sturdy
    Left Overs
    Careful/Impish
    252 HP, Rest of EV's into defense of your choice
    Spikes/Toxic Spikes
    Stealth Rock/Toxic Spikes
    Earth Quake
    Rapid Spin/Gyro Ball


    This is another typical wall who sets spikes and stealth rock up. Nothing too new or different compared to his role in the previous generations. Set up hazards, and rapid spin the enemies hazards away. As noted, the only real difference from this set compared to the previous set is the fact that explosion is missing. Due to its nerf, it most likely is more useful to set up another layer of spikes.

    [​IMG]
    latias@leftovers
    bold/levitate
    252HP/236DEF/20SPD
    wish
    protect
    thunderwave/ toxic
    draco meteor

    latias, unlike its brother, has wish, which makesw it more inclined to run a defensive set. wish/protect is for wish passing (go figure). thunder wave or toxic is to spread status. the choice comes down to if you are running more of a stall team or an offensive team and you want to slow down your opponents. draco meteor is to pack a punch if you need to
    bibliography
    these are all the people from who'm i borrowed

    norelationstojfk- i used the politoed set on his thread
    steeldragon- i borrowed his kingdra set
    boyofrito- for his kabutops set
    super mario bro- for his moveset for vaporeon
    G.I.R. for recomending superpower on kaputops
    alphatron- for the parasect set
    RaRaRabbit: for his analysis and movesets for zapdos tentacruel forretress and natorei
    megan fox- for the slowbro moveset
  2. RaRaRabbit

    RaRaRabbit

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    I think bringing up rain stall might be a bit cool. Considering there have been a few rain stall pokemon as of late.

    Ludicolo (rain dish), Parasect (dry skin), Tentacruel (New rain dish ability), Blastoise (new rain dish ability), and I have even read someone say that Jynx was a decent rain abuser with dry skin.

    Also the use of hydration vaporeon and lapras.
  3. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner
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    thats a good i dea. i think i'll first split up the pokes into hyper offense abusers and rain stallers for convenience
  4. Ginku

    Ginku Farbenprächtig
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    You might want to try superpower on kabutops to break through nattorei who rain normally struggles against.
  5. RaRaRabbit

    RaRaRabbit

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    One other note, is that you don't need to limit your options to just water types. Nattorei heavily benefits off of rain dance since it halves the power of fire type attacks. Bronzong becomes a much more potent wall as fire is his only weakness as long as he has levitate (although he doesnt have a reliable reccovery).
  6. Athrosu

    Athrosu

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    I'm tired of Politoed leads on DW, they're the most uninteresting thing. The other day somebody actually used the move Rain Dance on me in Wifi, I was so happy even though I ended up getting beaten.
  7. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

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    Politoed isn't the best lead even for a Rain Dance team, so I find that a little odd.

    Rain stall needs a way to deal with other stallers. It got to the point where I frantically tried to use Acid Bomb Tentacruel as a wallbreaker just to make things easier for me.
  8. RaRaRabbit

    RaRaRabbit

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    I agree about the whole politoed lead thing a bit. I don't mind if they lead and switch out to keep him safe, but I can't count how many times I took out the toed first easily and whipped up sandstorm immediately after.

    There was just a war story I read a bit ago (on this forum) where someone used a jolteon with raindance, and it saved him the game. Stuff like that isn't a bad idea at all.


    Acid bomb on tentacruel is awesome. I used it and had some great results.
  9. aburame_shino

    aburame_shino

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    I was thinking of a rain team based around Choice Specs Kingdra and Choice Band Kabutops. The rest of the pokes would be pretty defensive. I was thinking Nattorie to set up rocks, Chansey to sponge special hits and pass wishes to Politoad, then a Zapdos to cover fighting weaknesses and abuse Thunder. Thoughts?
  10. The Pokemon Pimp

    The Pokemon Pimp

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    Rain Dance is probably my favorite type of weather, just because of all the sexy effects that come with it.

    I love Zapdos as a Rain Dance abuser. Once Lightingrod comes out, it serves as a powerful offensive force that can switch into Electric attacks and fire back STAB Thunders in return.
  11. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner
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    ok i m trying to get all these pokes set up. please by patient, or, even better post the set for me. i'd really apreciate it. on ths issue of politoed as a lead, i never meant to say politoed should be a lead. i just put it at the beginning because it is the most important thing to a rain dance team. sorry for the confusion
  12. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

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    Zapdos as a rain abuser works quite well. He's bulkier than the electric genie this generation and he's immune to electric attacks. Losing heat wave doesn't matter since it's raining, and losing extra sensory is laughable. Zapdos doesn't get gale. But if it did, it would completely blow every other electric and flying type out of the water.

    I'm gonna have to mention Parasect as well. Ludicolo is now outclassed as a rain dance subseeder. Parasect is just amazing.

    (Parasect) (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - X-Scissor/Aromatherapy/Aerial Ace
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Spore
  13. The Pokemon Pimp

    The Pokemon Pimp

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    Parasect is awesome under rain...all it was really used for in Gen IV was a Kyogre counter, but now that rain exists in non-ubers it should be used more. Spore is so perfect, too, especially if you end up Sporing the opponent's weather inducer. They either switch out to preserve the weather but will probably never wake up for the rest of the battle, or stay in hoping to wake up and likely losing their weather. Pretty interesting.
  14. RaRaRabbit

    RaRaRabbit

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    Note: These are all Rain Stall builds:



    Tentacruel

    Rain Dish
    Black Sludge
    Calm
    252 hp, 252 Special Defense

    Surf
    Toxic Spikes
    Acid Bomb/Giga Drain
    Rapid Spin/Giga Drain

    Basic idea for any Tentacruel. Toxic Spikes to help you wittle the enemy for your team, Rapid Spin to save your team from hazard damage. The attacking moves, I use surf as boiling water is useless if your poisoning your enemy with the toxic spikes. Acid Bomb and Giga Drain are both awesome. Giga drain gives you great recovery, and Acid Bomb is just amazing in general, especially when the enemy switches into it.



    Parasect
    Dry Skin
    Left Overs
    Careful/Impish
    252 HP, Rest of EV's into defense of your choice

    Spore
    Substitute
    Leech Seed/Protect
    X-Scissor/Leech Seed

    This one is a bit tough, as you absolutely NEED spore. Yet you need room for substitute and leech seed, and yet protect sounds so awesome... and you need some form of attack to not be screwed by taunt. Then you have options for Aroma Therapy, as well as Stun Spore. SO MANY CHOICES. Either way, send him in on a grass attack aimed at your water type pokemon, use spore/leech seed/substitute on the switch, and just start sub/protecting away and heal lots every turn.



    Ludicolo
    Rain Dish
    Left Overs
    Calm/Bold
    252 hp, Rest of EV's into defense of your choice

    Leech Seed
    Protect
    Substitute
    Boiling Water/Ice Beam/Energy Ball



    Zapdos
    Pressure (Volt Absorb if it gets released)
    Left Overs
    Calm/Bold
    252 HP, Rest of EV's into defense of your choice
    Thunder
    Substitute
    Roost
    Toxic/HP Ice/HP Grass

    This is the basic Sub Roost set. No need for heat wave due to it being in a rain team. This is a GREAT addition as it resists both GRASS and ELECTRIC type attacks that would be aimed at your other water types. Thunder with 100% accuracy in the rain. Toxic away and start sub roosting. Toxic is a good choice, but if you have toxic spikes on your team you can have room for more coverage through Hidden Power.
  15. Schtizzel

    Schtizzel

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    Rain Dance Stall is imo the best weather. Parasect can clearly stall out whole teams and also Nattorei can benefit from Rain. It loses his 4x fire weakness and can handle other water pokis with his grass moves.
    At the same time Rain Stall can be pretty offensive. All the Swift Swimmer are such big threads. Hard hitting and super fast...

    I already tried out some pokis for my team and Dragonite is one of my favorite Gen 5 Rain abuser.
    Multi Scale guarants a pretty save switch-in. Dragon Tail is for phazing out and prevend more hazard damage. Hurricane becomes a hard hitting STAB and a 100% chance of confusing. So everybody should try out Dragonite. It can stall and phaze opponents, but can also hit hard with STAB Hurricane and a Dragon Move...

    People should let go the idea of Lead Politoed. It leaves all of your cards widly open. Everybody can clearly see that you use a Rain team from the first round on. So they can save all of their Counters for destroying your team. And Politoed isn't that bulky that he can be fresh and not death the whole match. Hippo and Tar became so much popular, even Non-Sandstream-Teams will use them. So your opponent will focus on killing Politoed and sending out their Weather-Poki to sweep through your team easily.
    That's why an Anti-Lead is much more effective for leading than Politoed. The frog can be switched in so much, that Rain will be up but not on Round 1.
  16. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    When I was young, I always used the "Ultimate Draining&Recovery" pokemon, Ludicolo
    (note that it was in-game, and I did not even know about EV's and stuff)
    Ludicolo@Leftovers
    Ability:Rain Dish
    -Leech Seed
    -Giga Drain
    -Protect/Substitute
    -Surf/Ice Beam

    Note that this is a very gimmicky set, and its not really recommended.
    Anyway, with Rain Dish+Leftovers you restore 1/8 of your health, and with leech seed thats again about 1/8, so thats 1/4 each turn. Use protect/substitute, and Giga Drain/Synthesis/Surf, whichever is the best option
  17. The Pokemon Pimp

    The Pokemon Pimp

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    No Synthesis, but otherwise it's not too bad. Surf would be great so you don't get walled too easily.

    It's a lot like a standard Ludicolo subseeder, though.

    Tentacruel is great too, because it never had a go-to ability to begin with. Rain dish is still a niche ability but it's better than Clear Body on Tenta.
  18. Raptorg

    Raptorg

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    Synthesis only recovers 25% in the rain and is wrecked in Sandstorm as well. Not worth it.
    You could be a complete asshole and use both protect and substitute, though you won't be defeating grass types anytime soon. Ice Beam is an option.
  19. Lou Cypher

    Lou Cypher

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    I love Gorebyss in rain. Shell Smash on that thing is lethal, especially since it packs Baton Pass as well. I don't know about you but I find Swift Swim + Shell Smash + Baton Pass to be...well...scary, to say the least.
  20. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner
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    ok i updated tentacruei, dragonite, zapdos, and parasect. what else am i missing?
  21. The Pokemon Pimp

    The Pokemon Pimp

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    Jeez, especially if you pass to a White Herb sweeper. The White Herb part could be gimmicky but dangerous if used correctly.
  22. Schtizzel

    Schtizzel

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    @forestflamerunner: Multi-Scale + Superpower is illegal. Superpower can only be achieved be a 4Gen MoveTutor.

    Dragonite is such an diverse pokemon. ThunderWave, Dragon Tail, Toxic, Roost + Multiscale for defensiv/stall/phazing - DD, Outrage, ExtremSpeed, Aqua Jet for attacking - just to name some possibilities. Last but not least amazing typing (grass + fighting resistance).

    Parasect and Dragonite are imo the best additions for Rain teams plus the new Rain-orientated abilities.
  23. The.Lost.Hylian

    The.Lost.Hylian I'll have what you're drinking
    is a Researcher Alumnus

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    I will come back to this. I wanted to start a rain thread, since I've had lots of success with my rain stall team on PO, but since PO hadn't been discussed on Smogon, I didn't want to bring it up if there was any issues against it.

    For Politoed, I run...

    368 total HP
    ~280 SpDef
    ~240 SpAtk
    rest in Def

    Boil Over, Perish Song, Focus Blast/Hypnosis, Ice Beam

    Works great, can take hits decently, but Perish Song is so good. In 3 turns, you know your opponent will switch Pokemon, either through staying or switching, so it's great to get set ups. I run defensive Sub/Roost Volt Absorb Zapdos, Perish Song/Heal Bell Celebi, Toxic Spikes/Rapid Spin Tentacruel, Stealth Rock Skarm, and the 6th member rotates. Sometimes I use Forry for TS/Rapid Spin. I'll post my teams for elaboration later, I'm on break at work ^^
  24. The Pokemon Pimp

    The Pokemon Pimp

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    Cool set, I had no idea Perish Song was relatively viable but if it works for good pseudophazing then that's nice. I haven't played around with Politoed on PO but I would play Hypnosis over Focus Blast, sleep is so rare (especially around a rain team, I think) that I would utilize it. It might conflict with Boil Over, though...
  25. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner
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    waht are some noteworthy steel types i should add?

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