1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Rain Stall (Peaked #35 on PS)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by HiImGrey, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. HiImGrey

    HiImGrey

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    24
    I've always preferred playing stall, but the existence of many powerful OU threats have always discouraged from running stall in the metagame. However, the Defense of the Titans thread gave me some ideas, and definitely proved stall was viable. So I went to the lab and came up with this team, which although is quite generic, works very well. I have a 68-8 record with this team and at the time of this writing #35 on PS OU current ladder.


    [​IMG]

    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 24 Spd / 252 HP / 232 Def
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Perish Song

    I feel that without running my own weather, running stall is a major uphill battle. For example, it's incredibly difficult for stall to beat Growth Venusaur in the sun, or hard to stall out a Sand team when I'm the one taking passive damage every turn. Politoed remedies this, and also gives a lot of utility. The most important moves here are definitely Toxic and Perish Song. Toxic has allowed me to eventually take down many specially defensive Rotom-W on the switch, which otherwise is very difficult for my team to take down. Perish Song has taken out the last member of my opponent's team multiple times, and has stopped many setup sweepers from sweeping me. Overall, I don't think there's anything to change on Politoed.

    The 0 ATK IV is most minimize the damage I take from confusion, and is also used in all my members without physical attacks.


    [​IMG]

    Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 16 Spd / 252 HP / 240 Def
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin
    - Protect
    - Toxic Spikes

    Rain Dish is an amazing ability, and its ability to absorb Toxic Spikes by coming in, and to spin away hazards is mandatory for stall. Tentacruel is an answer to most Infernape and Terrakion. Although this is a very generic set, it's also very effective. I opted to run Toxic Spikes over Toxic because even though I can't beat Jellicent 1 on 1, Toxic Spikes are invaluable for easily beating many teams that didn't include a way to handle them, and I think that gave me more wins overall than being able to beat Jellicent. I can always poison Jellicent with Politoed anyway. The only downside to this set is that opposing Toxicroak and Sub DD Gyarados beats me for free, but I think I would need to sacrifice too much to beat those Pokemon.


    [​IMG]

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind

    An MVP of the team, Skarmory is my answer to Garchomp and other physical dragons. In the rain, there's absolutely nothing they can do, which allows me to set up some Spikes. The only major physical threats that I don't hard counter are Gyarados if it has nabbed a Dragon Dance before hand and flinches me with Waterfall, Infernape with Thunder Punch, Kyurem-B and Choice Band Terrakion. Skarmory is also very effective against Baton Pass, and in combination with Politoed, actually makes it not difficult to win.


    [​IMG]

    Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 HP / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
    - Hurricane
    - Focus Blast
    - U-turn
    - Taunt

    Tornadus-T is the last member of the team added, and I tried numerous defensive players over it first, but Tornadus-T has been the best. It prevents Deoxys-D from setting up stuff, beats Ferrothorn, Conkeldurr and Magnezone which would otherwise beat my team for free. Overall, Tornadus-T is just too good not to use on a Rain team because unless my opponent runs specially defensive Jirachi or Rotom-W, something is getting mauled by Hurricane. I run Focus Blast over Superpower because I can just Taunt Chansey anyway if it switches in.


    [​IMG]

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Careful Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Body Slam
    - Wish
    - Protect

    As mentioned earlier, not running specially defensive Jirachi or Rotom-W would make me very susceptible to Tornadus-T, so here's specially defensive Jirachi. It's the most generic set available, but absolutely necessary to handle stuff like Tornadus-T and Latios. Along with Skarmory, double steel types gives me very strong defensive capabilities that beats most Dragons. With rain up, pretty much only strong Earthquakes are going to do much, in which case I get a free switch to Skarmory or Tornadus-T.


    [​IMG]

    Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 SDef / 4 HP
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Seismic Toss
    - Heal Bell
    - Softboiled
    - Stealth Rock

    Completing the SkarmBliss(Chansey) core, not a lot of threats can wall break through the duo. Anything that can get through are usually walled by Jirachi and Tentacruel, and the redundancy is countering abilities allow me to keep the health up for each of them. Seismic Toss for damage, and Heal Bell and Softboiled for recovery. I feel the rest of team can easily inflict status, so I run Stealth Rock, which I can get up pretty easily considering Chansey gets a lot of switch-in opportunities.

    Threats:

    I'm not going to go over all the OU threats, but am going to mention a few that really gives me trouble here. However, for most of these, I just accept that it's going to be really difficult to beat them because it's impossible for me to counter everything.

    1. Specially Defensive Rotom-W: very hard to take down. Pain Split means I can't take it down with Chansey, and Will-O-Wisp let's it beat Jirachi. All my other members are weak to Volt Switch. What I usually do is to get Stealth Rock up, Toxic it with Politoed then sacrifice Chansey to take it down. I don't think I can really counter it unless I run Celebi, but I feel that the other members play roles that are more important, and I have beaten many specially defensive Rotom-W in the past so it's definitely possible.

    2. Breloom: I hate seeing this guy in any team I play against. It outspeeds most of my members and then just hammers me with damage. I usually switch to Politoed to absorb with Spore, then to Skarmory to force it out. Fortunately, not many people have predicted the switch to Politoed and have in fact wasted their Spore on it.

    3. SubDD Gyarados: This thing is very difficult to beat for my team because anything that can break its sub on my team is damaged hard by Waterfall, and anything that can take a Waterfall can't break the sub. I've only beaten it a few times through bad playing on my opponent's part. Skarmory can take a hit once, but will need to be at full health all the time to counter Gyarados. I usually set up Stealth Rock ASAP when I see any Gyarados in team preview.

    4. Kyurum-W: incredibly difficult to take down, I usually try to set up Toxic Spikes to beat it through passive damage. I almost always sacrifice 2 to 3 members before it dies though.

    5. Magnezone: It traps and KOs Skarmory and Jirachi, which are probably very important if my opponent decides to run Magenzone. The Scarf version can't really do much to Jirachi though, but the Substitute set is very dangerous. I usually predict the switch and double switch to Tornadus-T to maul something with Focus Blast.

    6. Sub Calm Mind Jirachi: I can't break it's Sub and it will OHKOs everything on my team easily except for Chansey after a single Calm Mind. This is pretty much auto-lose when I ever encounter one except when my opponent is bad. Luckily, this set is uncommon so I just accept the loss whenever I see it.
  2. Eranu

    Eranu

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    382
    Hey,

    Cool to see you've peaked high with a stall team. Stall is generally hard to pull off in BW2. I'll try to help you shorten your threat list. Bulky Rotom-w is always annoying for stall teams, since it can just volt switch out on its counters (Ferrothorn, Chansey, etc). A solution could be changing your Tentacruel to a Toxic set. This allows you to outspeed Rotom-w and Toxicing it. You can also use Substitute on the volt switch. Toxic Spikes are a bit underwhelming in BW2 since it can only hit one poke out of the top ten usage, so I think having Toxic compensates big time for losing Toxic Spikes. I don't really see how you're weak to Breloom. After you fodder something to spore you can just deal with it by using either Tornadus or Skarmory. For the Gyarados problem, a solution could be running Hidden Power [Electric] > Protect on Politoed. This allows you to 2HKO Bulky Gyarados without Stealth Rocks, and sometimes OHKOing offensive Gyarados after Stealth Rocks. Protect is a good move on Politoed, but I think having a way to deal with Gyarados is more important. The best way for your team to deal with Kyurem-B is to get up Stealth Rocks fast and Whirlwind it with Skarmory. After that you should be able to KO it with a Focus Blast from Tornadus-T. A way to somewhat fix your Magnezone and CM Jirachi problem is changing your own Jirachi set to WishCM. This way you win against SubCM sets and you can just set up on Magnezone in Rain. You can run Psyshock and Thunder, so you can still deal with Tornadus-T and Lati@s using Jirachi, since Psyshock will do enough to Latias after several Calm Minds. Hope I helped. Good luck !

    ~Sets:

    Show Hide
    Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Substitute
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Calm Mind
    - Psyshock
    - Thunder
  3. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,430
    Ok, let me tell you this first.

    I LOVE your team!!!! I love it. In fact, I've been looking to build my own Rain Stall build and I always come up with something similar. I have a few suggestions worth considering.

    For starters, I think Chansey is the weak link.. especially a Toxic-less Chansey. Chansey doesn't patch up anything that your other members can't do. I actually think that Celebi will be the perfect replacement for Chansey. Celebi can lay Stealth Rock for the team, Heal Bell if you need it, and stop Rotom-W and Gyarados from being too threatening for the team. This is the Celebi set I use:

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 Spd / 136 SDef / 104 Def
    Careful Nature
    - Perish Song
    - U-turn
    - Stealth Rock
    - Recover

    Between Celebi and Jirachi, pretty much every special pokemon in OU is covered, which is a case against Chansey who is just fodder. Although Celebi has a bit of a Genesect weakness, all you need it to do is lay Stealth Rock once, then you can spend the rest of the match U-turning (recover when needed) to use momentum to rack up more Spikes damage. This Celebi will take care of Rotom, CM Jirachi, Gyarados, and any last man pokemon better than Politoed or Chansey can.

    Now, I know you already have Perish Song on Politoed but I recommend you change that to Haze. Haze really helps Politoed become a Toxic Staller because it can use it indefinitely while the other team tears their hair out. Haze also screws up anything Baton Pass can do better than your other members, as prediction from a Baton Pass team will beat you.

    You may be weary of losing Heal Bell but status isn't exactly harmful to your team as it is. Celebi can Heal Bell as a last resort but I strongly recommend trying the set.


    Other minor suggestions are some EV / moveset fixes:

    Jirachi: I recommend using Thunder on your Jirachi with a Sassy Nature. Body Slam may seem better but you want to hit things like other rain dudes, Genesect, Jellicent, etc. Your team will benefit from Thunder because Skarmory 100% checks all the Garchomp / Landurus / Gliscor shenanigans. I have to recalc it, but I think like 40 Def EVs or something prevents Jirachi from being 2HKOed by Kyurum-B's Outrage meaning in a pinch you can switch in, Protect, and take another as you Wish. This maybe worth looking into. You won't lose too much Special Bulk because as I said before, Jirachi's typing is more important than its EV spread.

    Skarmory: I always recommend running more special defense on Skarmory. It's typing is what lets it take the Dragons. He needs some slight SpDef buffer for random unexpected attacks. Try this spread: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpDef, Impish. I also recommend trying Taunt over Brave Bird. Taunt will make Ferrothorn set-up fodder. Your team isn't weak to it but cannot kill it quickly enough. A Ferrothorn / Jellicent other team means you may have a ton of residual damage to deal with! Brave Bird isn't really hitting anything important. You can Taunt things like Conkeldurr as well.

    Tornadus-T: I LOVE this guy. However, I have a strong dislike for the Life Orb set. I don't see what the point of Life Orb is at all. It doesn't allow you to Regenerate enough health and you are better off just spamming Hurricane. Try this:

    Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Air Slash
    - Focus Blast
    - Sleep Talk

    This is rather unorthodox, but it works extremely well and I highly vouch for it. Specs Hurricane is win. Air Slash gives you something to spam against Sun Teams (they have trouble switching into it). Offensive Ninetales are 2HKOed, defensive ones 3HKOed but can't OHKO you back. Sleep Talk means you can switch into Breloom, press the button and counter it as all 3 moves OHKO in return. Tornadus doesn't need to worry about U-turn because Hurricane is just so damn difficult to switch into!


    Try these suggestions.. and nice team!! I might test myself ^_^
  4. tw1g007

    tw1g007

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    Awesome. My first post on this thread here.

    Your team is pretty solid and I have used many variations of it before but unfortunately I will have to say that you are very weak to reversal Dugtrio. On a few occasions you will meet fire oriented teams with a Ninetails and Dugtrio pairing with their main focus on trapping and killing your Chansey. You could get away from the Dugtrio trap by simply having Toxic on Chansey. You want to time when to seis-toss because you don't want Dugtrio's HP too low to essentially OHKO your Chansey. This trap even with toxic can still be pretty difficult to overcome anyway.

    I'd recommend Toxic > Toxic Spikes for Tentacruel. T-spikes really isn't that good to be honest. With Toxic you can at the very least beat Jellicent one on one when it switches into you and even handle Gyarados and many other dragons who choose to switch into you. I also highly recommend Substitute > Protect to ease prediction on who to toxic.

    I personally find Tornadus-T unnecessary for your team and it really should be replaced by something else. You are already bogged down by thunder weakness so why add more liabilities to your team? Tentacruel handles Conkeldurr and Ferrothorn (provided it gets a burn it can stall it out and force a switch) anyway.

    Handling Rotom-W is a pain in the ass indeed but since I personally run Chansey in my own rainstall team, in many cases sacrificing Chansey for a Pain Split Rotom-W normally comes to bite me in the ass since my opponent would most likely have a Genesect pairing. With no one left to wall Genesect completely its normally GG. If you are gonna get rid of Tornadus-t then I suggest a Gastrodon replacement.

    Your team can handle Breloom very easily. 90% of the Brelooms on PS are terrible Breloom players. You are right in saying that Politoed is perfect sack material because I do it myself and it always turns out that way. I then switch in Skarmory who can survive even a +2 Mach Punch and go for the OHKO with Brave Bird.

    Your team shouldn't really be weak to Kyurem-W with Jirachi imo but atleast it forces out Kyurem-B in most cases.

    Nothing you can do about Magnezone unless you choose to Shed Shell your Skarmory which I wouldn't recommend doing on a ladder setup (do it for tournies though). So yes double-switching would normally be the only thing you can do.

    I feel your team is also prone to several other Boosting threats I am too lazy to list at the moment. I do know the NP thundurus would rape your team and possibly sweep. You need a pokemon specifically to handle boosting threats.
  5. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,430
    I tested your team with my changes for a while on PS. I went 6-1. The only issue was the Sun Dugtrio teams. Donphan kept spinning my shit so I had to reset. Granted, the sun team was particularly mean (Venusaur and Ninetales BOTH had Sunny Day). I ended up forfeiting because my Sleeping Tornadus-T used Hurricane 5 times on Venusaur and kept missing (I was able to Regenerate it several times). Had one of them hit (or actually picked Air Slash ONCE), I STILL woulda walked away with the Victory.. but that particular time of sun team isn't uncommon and forced me to sack a few things and play out of the team's element. I wish you had a spin blocker.. the only one I can think of is using a Rocky Helment Ferrothorn with Leech Seed over Skarm, but then other Ferrothorn teams because just as annoying. *shrug*

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)