1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Rainy Days: Rain in the DW OU Metagame

Discussion in 'Dream World' started by Harsha, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,107
    Rain in the DW OU Metagame
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Overview

    Rain is one of the most commonly seen weathers in standard OU, and with Politoed at number 9 in the DW OU 1337 usage statistics, it's easy to see that rain also has a big affect on the DW OU metagame. It's also safe to say that while sand is the most used weather, rain plays a dominant role in the metagame due to the massive amount of rain abusers. Before delving into that, let's take a look at the effects of rain:

    Effects of Rain
    • Water-type moves' base power is increased by 50%.
    • Fire-type moves' base power is decreased by 50%.
    • SolarBeam is forced into its charge turn.
    • Hurricane and Thunder have 100% accuracy.
    • Weather Ball becomes a Water-type move with double its default Base Power.
    • Synthesis, Moonlight, and Morning Sun recover 25% of the user's HP.
    • Pokemon with the ability Swift Swim have their Speed doubled.
    • Pokemon with the ability Hydration have all status healed at the end of a turn.
    • Pokemon with Dry Skin gain 12.5% HP per turn.
    • Pokemon with Rain Dish gain 6.25% HP per turn.
    • Castform changes forme.
    With the many unbanned rain abusers and new abilities and moves available to many Pokemon, rain finds itself as one of the most deadly playstyles. In addition, rain, like sand, has an offensive and a defensive side. Rain stall is a popular option amongst players, and standard rain offense is very lethal.

    While Chlorophyll abusers in the sun remain unbanned, Swift Swim users are still banned in DW OU if used alongside Politoed. However, due to the high Speeds and fast pace of most of the metagame, this is no problem. Some of the major effects that should be retained include the following: rain halves the power of Fire-type moves, Hurricane and Thunder receive a buff in accuracy, and Hydration removes all status. With the nerf to Fire-type moves power, even Genesect, Scizor, and Ferrothorn can take 4x super effective attacks and continue to play. Hurricane and Thunder's accuracies are also a boon because with such high Base Power, they can rip through under-prepared teams. Finally, Hydration allows some Pokemon to be outright broken; namely, Manaphy can rip through stall teams with ease and take down other weather.

    Rain Abusers

    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Perish Song

    While it isn't a rain abuser itself, Politoed summons rain and is essential for every rain team. 3 attacks Politoed does the job well, as it has fairly good coverage, useable bulk, and the ability to switch moves. Perish Song prevents setup sweepers from abusing Politoed's lack of Speed, and it also helps against Baton Pass teams. Hydro Pump provides a primary STAB that hits hard, and Ice Beam and Focus Blast provide good coverage. Politoed can even 2HKO Ferrothorn with a bit of previous damage! One can also run a Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, or defensive set, depending upon the team being used.

    [​IMG]
    Manaphy @ Life Orb
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Tail Glow
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam / Energy Ball
    - Rest

    Manaphy is arguably the most broken Pokemon in the metagame at this point, and that's due to two things: its access to Tail Glow and Rest. With Tail Glow, Manaphy can become one of the deadliest Pokemon in the game in only one turn, as a +3 boost is nothing to laugh at. Surf, with STAB, a Life Orb boost, and a rain boost, will OHKO even many Pokemon that resist it. Of the few "counters" to Manaphy, Calm Mind Suicune and Jellicent stand out. However, Energy Ball allows Manaphy to bypass their walling and swiftly KO them. Ice Beam hits Dragon-types hard, though, so it should always be considered. Rest and Hydration make Manaphy a monster. Manaphy simply cannot be afflicted by status in the rain due to Hydration, and Rest allows it to fully heal itself. All is not amazing for Manaphy, as faster Pokemon with Electric-type moves will be able to take down the beast. However, these Pokemon cannot safely switch in, and opposing Electric-types live in fear of Surf. One can also opt for a Calm Mind set to raise Special Defense or a Tail Glow + 3 attacks set to go all-out offensive.

    [​IMG]
    Thundurus @ Life Orb
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Focus Blast

    With a trolling 111 base Speed and great 125 base Special Attack, Thundurus is a major threat in the DW metagame. Even though it was banned from standard OU play, it found its way back to the OU metagame along with plenty of other suspects. The sheer force of Thundurus is frightening; after one Nasty Plot, it becomes one of the most threatening Pokemon in the game, as it gets all the coverage necessary to pull off a good sweep with a pseudo BoltBeam and Focus Blast to hit Steel-types. However, this is not the only scary portion of Thundurus's game, as its ability—Prankster—allows Thundurus to fire off priority Thunder Wave or Taunt depending on the set it carries. Thunder Wave effectively minimizes the damage that Choice Scarf users can do, while Taunt does well against stall oriented teams. If used with the correct support (a way to beat revenge killers), Thundurus can be quite the monster.

    [​IMG]
    Dragonite
    @ Life Orb
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
    Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe)
    - Hurricane
    - Aqua Tail
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Roost

    Rain mixed attacker Dragonite is one of the most threatening Pokemon in the rain despite its lack of Speed. With STAB Hurricane, Dragonite can OHKO a surprising amount of Pokemon including Scizor and Genesect after Stealth Rock damage. Aqua Tail is extremely useful, as it 2HKOes Tyranitar in the sand and OHKOes it in the rain. ExtremeSpeed picks off weakened foes and does a lot of damage even without an Adamant nature due to Life Orb. While the Life Orb seems like an odd choice for Dragonite, as it breaks Multiscale, it provides a ton of power for Dragonite to beat down foes. Unfortunately, once Multiscale is broken, Dragonite is prone to Choice Scarf Chandelure's revenge killing, but it often does a ton of damage before it can be KOed. Roost also allows Dragonite to heal the Life Orb damage off, effectively regaining Multiscale.

    [​IMG]
    Raikou @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power Ice

    While Raikou is rarely seen in the standard OU metagame, the Dream World aided its cause immensely with access to the ability Volt Absorb. Raikou can come in on any Choice-locked Electric-type attack or weaker special attack and immediately set up a Substitute. Behind its Substitute, Raikou can setup and quickly destroy full teams while boasting an immunity to status behind a Substitute. Thunder does major damage to any Pokemon that is not immune while Hidden Power Ice hits those that are immune. Raikou's pseudo BoltBeam coverage hits everything it needs to, as it is only resisted by obscure Pokemon such as Lanturn. While Raikou can go with 3 attacks and no Substitute, the ability to setup on foes who try and beat Raikou with status is often too useful to pass up on.

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Ghost
    - Surf

    Keldeo is one of the premier Water-types of the Dream World for good reasons. For one, its STAB Hydro Pump does a ton of damage to those that do not resist it. It also has a reliable way of beating down special walls like Blissey, as Secret Sword hits the foe's Defense instead of Special Defense. Hidden Power Ice stops Dragonite from laughing at Keldeo, but Hidden Power Ghost does the same for Jellicent who is immune to all of Keldeo's other attacks. Surf provides a backup attack so that one does not need to concern oneself with Hydro Pump's accuracy. Keldeo's main drawback is its lack of coverage, though it can still play well with a SubCM and simple Calm Mind set.

    Other Threats

    Other devastating threats in the rain include Tornadus and Feraligatr. While those who have played standard OU should already know the power of a Choice Specs Tornadus's Hurricane, it is still just as effective in the DW OU metagame. However, Tornadus suffers from the presence of Thundurus with Thunder Wave and it is still walled by Chansey and other dedicated special walls. However, if one can remove these walls from the battle, the game is close to over. Feraligatr is interesting, though. While it is RU in standard play, it does quite well in DW OU thanks to Life Orb boosts, STAB boosts, rain boosts, and access to Swords Dance. While Thundurus's priority Thunder Wave still is annoying, it can beat down virtually anything after one boost due to its access to a priority move in Aqua Jet. Sheer Force is a fun ability to abuse, of course, and the Life Orb damage is nullified by it.

    Discuss!

    • Is rain as popular as it should be?
    • Which Pokemon are broken?
    • Which Pokemon should be banned?
    • Share some creative sets!
    • How does other weather affect the presence of rain?
    • How can rainstall deal with Manaphy, arguably one of the biggest DW OU threats?
    • Share good rain teams!
    Thanks to Omicron for the idea!
  2. yaysnivy34

    yaysnivy34

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    121
    Rain is awesome, and would be used much more often if it weren't for Garchomp and Excadrill making sand so damn good. However, the most broken Pokemon (besides Chandelure) in DW relies on rain: Manaphy. That thing is so dangerous it's not even funny. I also have a great rainstall Pokemon in Vaporeon. I've already shared this in the DW Creative Moveset thread, but I think it should be worth mentioning:

    [​IMG]
    Ability: Hydration
    248 HP / 8 Def / 248 SpD
    Nature: Calm Item: Leftovers
    Acid Armor
    Rest
    Scald
    Toxic
  3. V0x

    V0x qt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,712
    I find that non-Rest Tail Glow Manaphy is really good, regardless of weather. The +3 boost is a huge difference when compared to the standard Nasty Plot sweepers, and the extra moveslot available gives you tons of sweeping capability. I mean, Ninetales in sun and Tyranitar in sand cannot take a +3 Surf, and you /can/ continue a sweep in opposing weather. Revenge killing is a bit of an issue, but 100/100/100 and a Water-typing is solid, not to mention 20 BP Grass Knot v. Manaphy. Rain is just the extra little treat, giving a power boost and immunity to status so you can switch in to walls without worry. So basically, I feel like Tail Glow Manaphy should be used as a sort of HO rain sweeper, while CM falls more under the bulky offensive mold.
  4. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    I've most likely mentioned this before somewhere, but Raikou is an amazing rain abuser. With a powerful STAB Thunder, it can easily destroy the opposition. In the Dream World, Raikou also gets Volt Absorb, meaning that it can serve as a great defensive boon on rain teams, absorbing all the Electric attacks aimed at Politoed and the other Water-types common on rain teams. My personal favorite set is SubCM, as it can easily set up on weaker special attacks, and Substitute blocks annoying status such as Toxic.

    Raikou @ Leftovers
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power Ice
  5. Danilo

    Danilo
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,230
    I don't think rain is nearly as good as sand at the moment. If you look at the 1337 stats, you'll see that Tyranitar is pushing 60% usage. Tyranitar is the only weather inducer that can take down Chandelure.

    Things like Feraligatr need to be used more. I'm considering using Fera on my sand team cause I need a Fire-type resist that can revenge Exca! The thing is actually nuts on a rain team. It gives rain teams attacking priority, which they desperately need, and is good against Chandelure. So yeah harsha2014, Feraligatr is insane. It beats Gliscor, the most common physical attacker in the meta.

    I don't really think that the 3 attacking Politoed is good in this meta. It doesn't have enough physical bulk to deal with Excadrill, and rain teams really need something that can revenge kill the mole, since very few teams are running Feraligatr. Scarf Toed is a great end game cleaner as when combined with Keldeo, they take down a lot of their checks. Very few Pokemon can take repeated Hydro Pumps.

    I don't understand why Manaphy is getting such little usage. It 2HKOs Tyranitar after a Tail Glow, it's got excellent defensive typing, and is an overall crazy good mon.

    In this metagame, I think Tornadus is better than Thundurus. Unlike Standard OU, rain teams have something that can beat Ferrothorn that isn't a mediocre mon(Toxicroak). Jirachi alone does a mediocre job checking rain teams, as Hydro Pumps from all of the most popular mons(Politoed,Keldeo,Surf from Manaphy after Glow), 2HKO. Jirachi is one of the only things that reliably checks Tornadus and after its gone, Tornadus can clean up much better than Thundy imo
  6. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,107
    Actually, Politoed is more than capable of taking down Chandelure. However, it cannot revnege kill Chanderlure without a Choice Scarf, and if Chandelure is using a Choice Scarf, obviously that's problematic. Feraligatr is actually a very cool Pokemon, and I may try him out. Dragon Dance is also an option. As for Politoed, I've found it to be quite useful actually, but you do have a point about Excadrill. It can revenge kill the mole if its HP is above 60%, but if Excadrill is at +2, you need to find another answer. Manaphy is a beast, agreed. Thundurus is able to set itself apart from Tornadus in my mind because of its resistance to Bullet Punch (not that common in DW, but still), its access to perfect coverage, its ability to paralyze the foe (which is EXTREMELY useful against sun teams), and its ability to setup on paralyzed foes and then sweep entire teams. However, with all the Choice Scarf Genesects running around, Thundurus and Tornadus can't actually be as effective as they used to be unless Genesect is removed early. Also, one thing about Manaphy is that with paralysis support, it can setup on Ferrothorn and get to +6 with ease before sweeping, as it OHKOes Ferrothorn. Basically, I can agree with most of your points, though I do think that Thundurus better than Tornadus due to its ability to sweep even when faced with special walls.
  7. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    Thundurus isn't necessarily better than Tornadus, they just play very different roles. In rain, Thundurus abuses a STAB Thunder while Tornadus abuses a STAB Hurricane. In my honest opinion, I think Hurricane is much better than Thunder due to the better overall coverage it provides. In addition, Ground-types aren't immune to it, meaning that Tornadus can fire off Hurricanes without the fear of Ground-types switching in. Granted, Ground-types aren't exactly a problem for Thundurus, as it has access to HP Ice, but if you want to compare when using coverage as a reference point, Hurricane is better. The same can also be said for their support capabilities. Thundurus gets a priority Thunder Wave, but this obviously doesn't help against Ground-types such as Excadrill, who are immune to it. Tornadus can use Tailwind, which doubles the team's Speed for a few turns. This means that Tornadus can sacrifice itself to help a teammate revenge kill Excadrill, even in the sand, which is something that Thundurus fails to do. And if Excadrill is stupid enough to use Swords Dance, predicting a switch, Tornadus will outspeed on the next turn after having used Tailwind and OHKO with Focus Blast, provided it hits.

    I personally don't think mixed rain Dragonite is all its cracked up to be, I've maybe seen it once in my time of extensive laddering. The standard Dragon Dance set is much more effective in almost every way. The Choice Band set is also much better. I've tried out just about every variant of Dragonite you can imagine, and I always come back to the standard Dragon Dance set. Tornadus is much better for abusing Hurricane with its excellent Special Attack that trumps that of Dragonite, while there are numerous Water-types that can better abuse their STAB moves in the rain. Rain Dragonite is just rather mediocre in my experiences - players should be using Dragonite to its advantages, by sticking to what it does best, setting up with Dragon Dance and running through the opponent's team. Splitting its offenses isn't the best way to go, and even if you do fully invest in both Attack and Special Attack, this leaves you with much less bulk and virtually no Speed. ExtremeSpeed doesn't always negate the Speed loss either. So long story short, stick to Dragon Dance - rain Dragonite just doesn't cut it in the DW Metagame.
  8. Danilo

    Danilo
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,230
    Mixed Dragonite is ok but i think it should be running Earthquake over E-Speed. EQ lets u hit achi, T-tar, Heatran, all of who are common Drag checks. Well maybe not t-tar. With rain being nearly 100% offense, i think Scarf Politoed is the set of choice atm
  9. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,428
    Agreeing with Omicron about Dragonite - Dragon Dance is usually its best set from my experience unless you're using CB to check things with Extremespeed, etc..

    Anyways, I've used rain extensively for the better part of laddering in DW OU. I remember someone talking about the combination of Specs Politoed and Specs Keldeo in #dw, and it actually is wonderful. The ability to continually fire off double STAB boosted Water-type attacks is usually amazing, since there's not much that can take more than two hits from either's Specs Hydro Pump (bar Blissey and Chansey, but Keldeo handles them, obviously). I guess you could compare it to the DPP Ubers combo of Salamence and Rayquaza - both do the same thing, but once one of them gets through the other's counters, it's an easy time for the other. Specs Politoed also has the possibility of plowing through Blissey with Modest Specs Hydro Pump in the rain, which gives Keldeo a much easier time in that it doesn't necessarily have to spam Secret Sword. Of course, this combo is kinda slow, so I've been running a few Scarf Pokemon in the wings. Garchomp is really cool because there are a lot of players that will just go straight for the Electric-type attack, letting Garchomp spam Outrage or whatever move is correct for the situation.

    I've also been using a bulky Tail Glow set on manaphy - in the rain, Manaphy with Ice Beam can be an excellent check to Swords Dance Breloom provided you don't switch in on Bullet Seed. Just the added HP and Defense of a bulky set lets it set up on quite a few things which would prove really problematic otherwise, and you get more elbow room in general. Another thing - I've been surprised by how much damage Energy Ball does to a lot of things, so I was wondering if maybe Ice Beam could still take out Jellicent at +6?
  10. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,011
    Hmm, Zapdos ought to be quite good, since it can abuse STAB Thunders, and it's immune/resistant to Electric- and Grass-type moves, since most rain teams have like 3 Water-types. Meloetta can also abuse that lovely 60% chance to paralyze with Thunder under the rain; Jirachi is in a similar vein with Water Pulse as well.
  11. Danilo

    Danilo
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,230
    I feel like Raikou would be much better than Zappy boy. Faster, and no rock weakness!
  12. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,684
    Actually, I would prefer Zapdos over Raikou, as even though Raikou lacks Rock- and Ice-type weaknesses, Zapdos brings to the table valuable Fighting- and Grass-type resistances, more-or-less the same defenses, higher SpA, LightningRod, and Roost. The set I ran when I used rain was -

    Zapdos @ Choice Scarf
    move 1: Thunder
    move 2: Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Volt Switch
    move 4: Toxic / Roost
    ability: LightningRod
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    The premise is simple - use Politoed / Manaphy / other Water-types as a lure to get into Thunderbolt, and go to town with Thunder from 525 SpA. All you need to do is take Ground-types out [this is easy with stuff like Keldeo around], and then you can sweep with just Thunder. Plus Zapdos has enough bulk to take the occasional hit or two from stuff it can't KO with +1 Thunder, like Dragonite. Volt Switch helps to maintain momentum early game, while Hidden Power Ice takes Gliscor out. I experimented a bit with the last slot - while I could occasionally scare a Water-type like Jellicent off and Roost to heal off SR damage, Toxic can directly cripple walls.

    Another thing I noticed was running 252 HP / 252 Def Bold Tail Glow Manaphy with Life Orb - this lures in Ferrothorn who think they can take Manaphy out with Power Whip, but Manaphy can get to +6 with greater ease now. A similar set with Calm Mind instead of Tail Glow functions very well as a late-game sweeper, as Manaphy becomes a near-impermeable wall once its checks are weakened or eliminated.
  13. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,107
    I actually may experiment with that Manaphy so that things like Excadrill don't end a sweep prematurely. One thing I thought was cool was that Manaphy survives Power Whip from Ferrothorn and with paralysis support, it can get to +6 with ease of the thorn ball. Against many teams, this can be fatal.

    The Zapdos idea looks cool. One thing deterring me from using it is the prevalence of sand though. I considered using Excadrill as a Rapid Spin user for my rain team, so we'll see if I can make a team with Politoed / Manaphy / Zapdos / Excadrill. It looks like a good idea on paper anyways. :&
  14. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    I think Raikou's main draw over Zapdos is its higher Speed. Base 115 Speed outruns quite a lot in the Dream World metagame, and most Pokemon are unable to outspeed it without the aid of a Choice Scarf or some other sort of Speed boost. Raikou has only one weakness when compared to Zapdos's two, and although it has a Toxic Spikes / Spikes vulnerability, it doesn't have a weakness to Stealth Rock, which can severely limit the number of times that Zapdos can switch in, and also lowers its durability. Zapdos also has no reliable way of boosting its Special Attack except if hit by an Electric-type attack to activate Lightningrod. Raikou can easily find opportunities to boost up with Calm Mind and hide behind a Substitute that cannot be broken by most special attacks after a few boosts. Zapdos may have reliable recovery in order to combat Stealth Rock damage and the like, but I feel that in general, its lower Speed and more weaknesses make it a slightly inferior choice to Raikou.
  15. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,229
    What I really like about Raikou is how badly he wrecks Thundurus. After a Calm Mind, not even +2 Focus Blast can't OHKO Raikou (which you can get by CMing before Thundurus attacks), or you can Sub to fish for a miss, and then Calm Mind up. After a Calm Mind, you easily OHKO Thundurus with Thunder(bolt). Priority Thunder Wave isn't doing shit, neither is Hidden Power Ice. Thundurus usually has a way of defeating all of its checks (Gastrodon with Grass Knot, revenge killers with priority Thunder Wave, Jolteon/Excadrill with a well timed Focus Blast, etc). He cannot do any of this crap against Raikou, which is absolutely awesome.
  16. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,684
    Talking about Thundurus, I found Mamoswine another decent Thundurus check that fits in very well on rain teams -

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine @ Life Orb / Choice Band
    move 1: Ice Shard
    move 2: Icicle Crash
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Stealth Rock / Stone Edge / Superpower
    ability: Thick Fat
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Adamant

    Life Orb 252 Atk Adamant Mamoswine Ice Shard vs:
    4 HP Thundurus: 84.66 - 100% (OHKO after SR or a few turns of LO recoil)
    252 HP Breloom: 69.13 - 82.09%

    With CB:
    4 HP Thundurus: 96 - 114% (OHKO after SR)
    252 HP Breloom: 80.24 - 95.06%

    With LO, Mamoswine can also set up SR itself, but CB will almost assure you the above KOs. The Choice Band set needs some prediction to work, but it hits really hard. Standard Ferrothorn is 2HKOed by EQ comfortably while Power Whip doesn't even come close to an OHKO (54.69 - 64.64%); too bad that Adamant CB Superpower falls short of the OHKO [maxes out at 97%]. Stone Edge is mainly for hitting Gyarados switch-ins (51.26 - 60.4% after Intimidate), but it also helps to break Heatran's Air Balloon as it switches in on a predicted EQ while dealing ~30%. I find that running Adamant is almost always better than Jolly, as you still outspeed 252 Spe Adamant Breloom and Ice Shard first. You miss out on outspeeding Heatran, but under the rain, Air Balloon Heatran's Fire Blast maxes out at 80% (Thick Fat), while you can break its Balloon as it switches in, stay in and KO with EQ.

    Mamoswine can also run Thick Fat in DW, which means that, under the rain, it technically resists Fire-type attacks! The additional Ice-type resistance with Thick Fat is pretty cool as well to switch in on Choice-locked Genesect's Ice Beam, and force a switch. But Thick Fat's significance is that Mamoswine has great synergy with Thundurus and Zapdos, as it resists both of their weaknesses and fucks Raikou up badly: +1 HP Ice does 33% on average, and even +1 Extrasensory maxes out at 84%. It also provides a useful Electric-type resistance to rain teams.
  17. blaZofgold

    blaZofgold

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Messages:
    68
    Whoa whoa whoa! There are 3 Pokemon you've left out in mentioning Rain Abuse: Hydration Lapras, Dry Skin Toxicroak, and Rain Dish Tentacruel.

    Hydration Lapras works off of its massive 130 HP stat combined with insta-heal in Rest to stack boosts, toxic stall, or even perish trap, being one of the only Pokemon to be able to do the latter. It has access to both Dragon Dance and Curse for offensive vs. defensive styles, an is overall a great Pokemon.

    Dry Skin Toxicroak is a force to be feared, able to pull off basically free Substitutes with Black Sludge + Rain Heal. Then Bulk Up/Swords Dance for boosts, and Drain Punch / Sucker Punch to kill.

    Rain Dish Tentacruel has an amazing 120 Special Defense and 100 Speed, able to set up Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin hazards, and rip through your opponent with boosted STAB Water moves, all while healing 1/8 of your health per turn with Black Sludge + Rain Dish.
  18. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    Manaphy is obviously Rain Stall's greatest nemesis, but I think the most effective way to deal with Manaphy is by utilizing a powerful attacker, perhaps just one, in order to get rid of Manaphy. Full Rain Stall can be extremely effective, although that Manaphy weakness is a big turn-off, as you cannot rely on status to take it down thanks to its Hydration ability. A powerful Electric-type such as Zapdos or Thundurus can easily fit onto a Rain Stall team. Zapdos absorbs Electric-type attacks, has access to instant recovery, and is actually pretty bulky with some investment. But its main draw on a Rain Stall team is its powerful STAB Thunder, which is granted perfect accuracy in the rain.

    Harsha, the outline that you have is great, but I think Rain Stall needs a much bigger mention in the OP. Pokemon such as Amoonguss, Chansey, and the Pokemon mentioned in the above post all become viable thanks to permanent rain. Amoonguss has its Fire-type weakness alleviated, and is extremely bulky, as well as having access to the Regenerator ability in the Dream World metagame. Chansey can now deal with Chandelure a little easier, by stalling out its Fire Blasts in the rain, even boosted. Vaporeon is an interesting addition to Rain Stall as it can pass massive wishes and also wall the crap outta things. HydraRest is really cool, although Manaphy does it much better. I'd also talk a lot more about Tornadus. It simply has so much utility on a Rain team. With an amazing STAB Hurricane that is resisted by very few Pokemon in the metagame, it can easily rip through teams. It isn't even OHKOed by an unboosted Thunderbolt / Ice Beam from Genesect, and it can OHKO in return with Hurricane. It also has access to Taunt, Tailwind, and a priority Rain Dance in case Politoed is absent. Tornadus can actually beat Chansey under the right conditions - it can Taunt it to prevent healing, and then smite it with Hurricane and / or Focus Blast. If Chansey is weakened a little bit, then Tornadus has a chance to take it out.
  19. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,537
    And now for something completely different:

    [​IMG]
    Kingdra @ Life Orb
    Swift Swim
    Modest 4/0/0/252/0/252
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hydro Pump / Surf
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Rain Dance

    Although you can't use Kingdra on Drizzle teams, it is an effective answer to rain offense, outspeeding a good chunk of their frailer mons in rain and possibly forcing them to burn Thundurus's Thunder Wave or Tornadus's Tailwind earlier than they'd like to. It also does well against sun and sand teams, as none of them enjoy having to deal with this thing in rain, and robbing Excadrill of its Sand Rush can change the course of the game (not that Kingdra can actually Rain Dance in front of Excadrill and instead has to use Rain Dance before Excadrill can get in, so you'd still need an actual way to handle Excadrill, but you get the point.). Hidden Power Fire is for nailing Ferrothorn and Genesect outside of rain. It's quite good on sun teams, where the power boost to Hidden Power Fire is certainly noticeable and Kingdra can throw your opponent for a bit of a loop if it gets a Rain Dance off after dispatching Ferrothorn, etc with it. It's replaceable with Dragon Pulse or Surf, whichever suits your needs.
  20. StallMandibuzz

    StallMandibuzz

    Joined:
    May 4, 2011
    Messages:
    880
    @Tobes: It's a pretty decent defense against Drizzle teams, especially since most things don't wanna take a STAB Life Orbed DM from Kingdra. And if there's another weather changer, you just need to eliminate it before Rain Dancing and adoring the Swift Swim boost.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)