1. The moderators of this forum are Jellicent and Lutra.
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  3. Click here to ensure that you never miss a new SmogonU video upload!

Gen 3 Random Battle (LIVE!)

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by HoeenHero, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. xGang

    xGang

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    4
    Agree with the quick claw and brightpowder. Well, I can see quick claw being ok on slow mons (just spotted a crobat with quick claw). But brightpowder... it sure is useful but it's really frustrating to randomly miss.
  2. HoeenHero

    HoeenHero The misspelled Hero!
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Messages:
    414
    Default items are:
    8/10: Leftovers
    1/10: Bright Powder
    1/10: Quick Claw (Will swap to BP if you have priority moves and this is chosen)

    I did this to create a bit more diversity in items because (outside of pokemon specific items like stick and thick club) its choice band, leftovers, lum berry, and pinch berries.

    Code:
    item = 'Leftovers';
            if (template.requiredItems) {
                item = template.requiredItems[this.random(template.requiredItems.length)];
    
            // First, the extra high-priority items
            } else if (template.species === 'Farfetch\'d') {
                item = 'Stick';
            } else if (template.species === 'Marowak') {
                item = 'Thick Club';
            } else if (template.species === 'Pikachu') {
                item = 'Light Ball';
            } else if (template.species === 'Shedinja') {
                item = 'Lum Berry';
            } else if (template.species === 'Unown') {
                item = moves[0] === 'hiddenpowerfighting' ? 'Choice Band' : 'Twisted Spoon';
            } else if (template.species === 'Wobbuffet') {
                item = ['Leftovers', 'Sitrus Berry'][this.random(2)];
            } else if (hasMove['trick']) {
                item = 'Choice Band';
            } else if (hasMove['bellydrum']) {
                item = 'Sitrus Berry';
            } else if (hasMove['rest'] && !hasMove['sleeptalk'] && ability !== 'Natural Cure' && ability !== 'Shed Skin') {
                item = 'Chesto Berry';
    
            // Medium priority
            } else if (hasMove['endeavor'] || hasMove['flail'] || hasMove['reversal'] || hasMove['endure']) {
                if (template.baseStats.spe < 108) {
                    item = 'Salac Berry';
                } else if (counter.Physical > counter.Special) {
                    item = 'Liechi Berry';
                } else {
                    item = 'Petaya Berry';
                }
            } else if (counter.Physical >= 4 && !hasMove['bodyslam'] && !hasMove['fakeout'] && !hasMove['rapidspin']) {
                if (template.baseStats.spe < 60 && !counter['priority']) {
                    item = 'Liechi Berry';
                } else {
                    item = template.baseStats.spe <= 108 && !counter['priority'] && this.random(3) ? 'Salac Berry' : 'Choice Band';
                }
            } else if (counter.Special >= 4 || (counter.Special >= 3 && hasMove['batonpass'])) {
                item = template.baseStats.spe >= 60 && template.baseStats.spe <= 108 && ability !== 'Speed Boost' && !counter['priority'] && this.random(3) ? 'Salac Berry' : 'Petaya Berry';
            } else if (hasMove['outrage'] && counter.setupType) {
                item = 'Lum Berry';
            } else if (hasMove['curse'] || hasMove['detect'] || hasMove['protect'] || hasMove['sleeptalk']) {
                item = 'Leftovers';
            } else if (hasMove['substitute']) {
                item = 'Leftovers';
    
            // This is the "REALLY can't think of a good item" cutoff
            } else {
                item = this.random(5) ? 'Leftovers' : ['Bright Powder', 'Quick Claw'][this.random(2)];
                if (item === 'Quick Claw' && counter.priority) item = 'Bright Powder';
            }
    EDIT: Ill patch it so fast pokemon don't get Q claw, and probably replace BP with lum berry. Voice further concerns below :)
  3. HeadsILoseTailsYouWin

    HeadsILoseTailsYouWin

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Messages:
    710
    Leftovers is pretty much the only item you see in gen 3 (outside of pinch berries), and for good reason. Nothing wants to give up the passive recovery for the negligible effects most items had at the time. The one exception is Choice Band, which i have never gotten in gen 3 randbats.

    Speaking of Choice Band, Slaking should always have it. There is no reason not to have choice band on a Pokemon that only stays in for one turn at a time.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  4. HoeenHero

    HoeenHero The misspelled Hero!
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Messages:
    414
    Bug: Qwilfish, sworddance needs to be corrected to Swords Dance otherwise the move fails. Will check all sets for this issue and patch later tonight.
  5. HeadsILoseTailsYouWin

    HeadsILoseTailsYouWin

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Messages:
    710
    Please fix redundant type coverage. In consecutive matches I got a Kingdra with Double Edge and Return, a Steelix with HP Steel and Iron Tail, and a Medicham with SubPunch and Reversal. Additionally, the Kingdra also had Dragon Dance and Rain Dance, meaning that there were redundant setup moves.
  6. Laikue

    Laikue

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    15

    Attached Files:

  7. HoeenHero

    HoeenHero The misspelled Hero!
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Messages:
    414
  8. HC

    HC

    Joined:
    May 2, 2015
    Messages:
    254
    Nope, no sunny day on the team at all.
  9. Laikue

    Laikue

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    I won't post more after this, rather I'll just update this post with more minor things I find.

    * Parasect gets Frustration yet has max happiness
    * Raichu uses Alolan Raichu's Cry (I know that's probably not something you're in charge of, but I think it's worth noting)
    * Probably well known, but it's not mentioned in this thread. The scroll-over lists all abilities the Pokemon can have, even from future gens.
    * Noctowl can have Insomnia + Rest
    * Castform appeared in it's snowy form in the party, immediately transforming into normal Castform when brought in. Didn't have hail as a move. (Edit: I realize now this is how it's supposed to work, but it still seems weird)
    * Without Sub or boosting moves, why does Togetic get Focus Punch and Baton Pass? (I understand Baton Pass works with Wish) In fact, why does Togetic run so many Physical moves anyway? There are a bunch of other mons on there (Noctowl, Misdreavus, Sneasel, Butterfree, Masquerain, to name a few) that forgo their stab and use other moves off their better offensive stat.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  10. Quote

    Quote Cautiously Optimistic
    is a Global Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnus
    LC Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,613
    [​IMG]

    Also gtfo with that quick claw/bright powder stuff please. I know it's random battle but that doesn't mean I should have a random chance of missing my attacks or having an omastar of all things one-turn sleep and outspeed me to KO me.
    Mirabel_ likes this.
  11. Champ1604

    Champ1604

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Messages:
    266
    Um okay so I got a parasect today and
    [​IMG]
    Why 1 power lol
    teachable and spookysocialist like this.
  12. Champ1604

    Champ1604

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Messages:
    266
  13. spookysocialist

    spookysocialist

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Messages:
    182
    Oh hi, those were some lovely battles huh.

    also this
    terrible medicham set (open)

    [​IMG]


    HJK in general probably shouldn't be used since its mostly a worse brick break, but triple fighting moves + endure is just lol
  14. HoeenHero

    HoeenHero The misspelled Hero!
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Messages:
    414
    In response to the above:

    BP & Quick Claw: Removing in favor of leftovers
    Multiple attacking Moves of the same type (Redundant type coverage): I will block that in the move picking script (barring a few things like return + quick attack since QA is priority)
    Misspelled Moves: Patched, waiting for update
    Parasect + Frustration: Patched (Frustration -> Return) waiting on update
    Multiple moves that set a status (ex: stun + sleep): Will block that
    Choice Band: Increased chance to use it
    Slaking: Will always get choice band
    Shifty: Going to work on this guy, he seems to have alot of issues
    Insomnia + rest: will fix
    Castform: Strange, ill see what i can do about that
    Togetic: Ill check movepool and remove redundant moves (thats what it seems the issue is)

    * Raichu uses Alolan Raichu's Cry (I know that's probably not something you're in charge of, but I think it's worth noting)
    * Probably well known, but it's not mentioned in this thread. The scroll-over lists all abilities the Pokemon can have, even from future gens.
    Not something we handle here, we only handle what movepools, abilities, and items you get on your pokemon in gen3randbats.
    Check the last 2-3 pages in the PS bug report thread, and if those arent mentioned there post a report about them Laikue

    Thanks for the help guys!
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  15. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,155
    Before I forget, here are some suboptimal sets found in my first 3 battles in this format:
    drillpeck-less murkrow
    hpgrass + razor leaf meganium
    recoverless porygon2
    spikesless cloyster
    fireblast + heatwave ninetales
    solarbeam w/o sunny day exeggutor
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  16. HoeenHero

    HoeenHero The misspelled Hero!
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Messages:
    414
  17. spookysocialist

    spookysocialist

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Messages:
    182
    I know you said you were going to work on shiftry, which is pretty good. Cause he gets sets like this.
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
  18. Tiksi

    Tiksi Dazzling Gleam
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,445
    Some movepool suggestions
    Venusaur +EQ, particularly for physical sets
    Muk + HP Ghost, assuming it can be programmed so that Shadow Punch is only an option if HP Ground isn't rolled
    Persian -Roar
    Machamp + HP Ghost
    Dewgong - HP Fire (still can't hit waters neutrally; if it will have an hp how about grass? ice beam takes care of grasses anyway)
    -Toxic in Cloyster, its usually the least helpful of its options and special walls tend to be spin/explosion bait
    Raticate -Facade + Return + Double-Edge, facade is cool and all but too unreliable
    Gyarados -Blizzard

    also nightmare should require a sleep move
  19. Typhlito

    Typhlito One Active Dawg
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris an Artistis a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,412
    One set that I noticed was kingdra with dragon dance/return/rain dance/surf. Dragon dance and rain dance probably shouldnt be on the same set.

    edit: Weather moves should always have a move that takes advantage of the weather change (ex: fire move/solar beam/ability for sunny day)

    Also, you can get castform's forms. They revert to normal when used but they should be normal to begin with
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  20. Rafael Lopes Silva

    Rafael Lopes Silva

    Joined:
    May 27, 2017
    Messages:
    2
    I found a Bug, today I was Playing and a Minun used a Thunderbolt in my Manectrike (Lightning Road) and the hability didn't work.
  21. Tiksi

    Tiksi Dazzling Gleam
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,445
    In Gen3, Lightning Rod only had affect in doubles, as it didn't grant immunity or give the stat raise (only redirecting electric-type moves to the user).

    ...on that note, on Pokemon with Lightning Rod as well as a more useful ability should probably be restricted to the latter.
  22. Champ1604

    Champ1604

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Messages:
    266
    This isn't a bug which any how actually affected the game but is a display error, I suppose.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    This didn't affect the game because Omastar continued to have it's basic ability (Swift Swim) because it's speed did double in rain.
  23. HSOWA

    HSOWA

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    [​IMG] Substitute is misspelled, so using it gave me the "there's no PP left for this move" message
    DEG likes this.
  24. Tiksi

    Tiksi Dazzling Gleam
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,445
    The misspelled move problem is fixed and waiting on a server update/restart
    HSOWA and HoeenHero like this.
  25. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,155
    I could expand on the many suboptimal movesets that I've found but I think the problem is mostly to do with the implementation itself.

    If you don't contemplate the option to define mandatory, exclusive, and/or combo moveslots, you really have to cut all the "barely useful" moveslots, because the separate redundancy checks can only do so much. They are useful to make sure that some combinations of almost identical moves don't show up together but they don't help making sure that each Pokemon get the STAB move(s) and/or useful support move(s) that it should always have. They aren't also very useful beyond considering more than two moves at the same time. An example of this is a substitute/focuspunch/bulkup/rockslide Hitmonlee set that I just got. Neither combination of moves is necessarily bad with each other to the point that you can generalize it to all 386 Pokemon, but all 4 moves together are suboptimal. It's the same kind of problems that gen 2 randbats used to have, execpt not as glaring because you've brute forced an insane amount of move redundancy checks.

    When I see an object like this:

    kingler: {
    randomBattleMoves: ["doubleedge", "return", "bodyslam", "hiddenpowerground", "mudshot", "swordsdance", "crabhammer", "knockoff", "toxic", "rest", "sleeptalk", "haze", "surf"],
    tier: "NU",
    },

    I cannot help but think that it's a recipe for disaster. Kingler should always have a normal and water move, but I can see how that could lead to a set like swordsdance/mudshot/knockoff/toxic or a sub-par rest-talk set very easily. Most of the niche moves should be gotten rid, and aim for 7/8 moves at most:

    kingler: {
    randomBattleMoves: ["doubleedge", "return", "bodyslam", "hiddenpowerground", "swordsdance", "crabhammer", "surf"],
    tier: "NU",
    },

    And the redundacy checks should just ensure that the set is always sd/normalMove/waterMove/hpground. They should be simple enough that you're able to picture how they apply correctly to each Pokemon. Granted, these restrictions are not going to be very kind to Pokemon that can adopt multiple roles, but you can't afford to get a mix up of movesets every other time. You can see how the redundancy scripts are already crazy long yet they're far from covering all the issues.

    I understand that the gen 2 randbats approach of making detailed movesets to all pokemon is too much work, moreso given that there are more pokemon in adv. But I think that adopting a design like gen 1 randbats would be a great improvement. Just defining a "combo" slot and one or two "exclusive" and/or "mandatory" slot would be enough to get decent results and would hugely get rid of all the unnecessary and hardly maintainable complexity of the redundancy scripts.

    absol: {
    inherit: true,
    randomBattleMoves: ["aerialace", "hiddenpowerfighting"],
    essentialMoves: ["swordsdance", "shadowball"],
    exclusiveMoves: ["substitute", "taunt", "batonpass", "flamethrower", "thunderwave"],
    comboMoves: ["calmmind", "icebeam", "thunderbolt"],
    tier: "UU",
    },

    Here, you pick all moves in "comboMoves" half the times, then one at random from "exclusiveMoves". Alternatively, the other 50% of the times, you'd skip "comboMoves", add one from "exlusiveMoves" similarly, and since you still have more room, add all possible moves from "essentialMoves" and fill up the moveset with random draws from "randomBattleMoves". It is not 100% perfect but with enough creativity it can be quite versatile, and it's very simple to implement; far more than all the redundancy scripts that need to be expanded everytime a bad moveset is reported. With an implementation like this, I only needed to add around 4-5 very basic redundancy checks in gen 1 randbats. Being careful enough, you can also add the same move multiple times to adjust the final odds by making sure that moves already known are discarded.

    If you're not willing to do something like this, at the very least Pokemon should get simple movesets. I've pointed Absol out because the two I've gotten have been absolutely awful. You would probably have to get rid of calmmind special variants for this set.
    Khaytra, HoeenHero and Earthworm like this.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)