1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

RarelyUsed CCAT - SS Omastar - Revision

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Hot N Cold, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas Pope Druddigon the 420th
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,348
    Would you look at that, I am so hipster I submitted Mesprit last round, however, I no longer think that Mesprit is the best fit for the team, I also considered Braviary, but it leaves us with a huge problem against stuff with edge-quake coverage, especially Rhydon with enough speed creep, Aerodactyl, offenisve Aggron and Hitmonlee. We definitely need rocks at this point, as well as something that can take on things with edge-quake coverage, so my proposal is Torterra.

    [​IMG]

    Torterra @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 96 Spd / 212 HP / 44 Atk / 156 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Seed Bomb
    - Earthquake
    - Synthesis

    This set may look odd, but it is just the standard RU defensive set with enough speed creep to get around min speed Lanturn, something which may give the other mons on this team trouble (Omastar with volt switch and its special bulk, Escavalier with scald, and Lanturns can't touch each other). This also provides our team with stealth rocks, an obvious necessity at this point. Torterra and Lanturn (and Esca to some extent) form an excellent defensive core on this team, as Torterra can take the Ground moves aimed at Lanturn, while Lanturn (and everything) can take the ice type moves aimed at Torterra, Flying type moves are also resisted by Lanturn, and fire type moves are drawn in for Omastar. Yeah, Torterra is a great fit for the current team.
    Turtleye and EonX like this.
  2. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,181
    Options here;

    Double Spiker Scolipede
    Support Mesprit
    Offensive Quiver Dance Lilligant
    Support Druddigon
    Choice Scarf Mesprit
    Choice Scarf Braviary
    Support Torterra


    Everyone gets 2 votes. You must use all of your votes. Your votes must be on separate submissions and any order. You can vote your own set.

    rest of the team in the op
  3. Molk

    Molk tfw zoroark
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,287
    Support Torterra
    Support Mesprit
  4. TROP

    TROP [02:45] <~Molk> i have a personal hatred for druddigon
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    756
    Support brokenmon Druddigon
    Choice Scarf Braviary
  5. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,181
    torterra and druddigon

    .slowteam
  6. Lasagne

    Lasagne THE HERO APPEARS
    is a Pre-Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2013
    Messages:
    2,079
    Druddigon
    Lilligant
  7. The Leprechaun

    The Leprechaun

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    277
    Support Mesprit
    Support Torterra
  8. Worldtour

    Worldtour left: Hitmonchan right: rest of RU
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,487
    Druddigon
    Torterra
  9. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
    is a Pre-Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Messages:
    725
    Support Torterra
    Lilligant
  10. atomicllamas

    atomicllamas Pope Druddigon the 420th
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,348
    Torterra
    Braviary
  11. KidTheDeath

    KidTheDeath

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    support torterra
    support mesprit
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  12. EonX

    EonX One of a Kind
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,452
    Support Torterra
    Support Mesprit

    Really don't like voting for my own set, but we really need things that can handle EdgeQuake coverage and Lanturn right now. These two do the best at doing that imo. Both also give SR support, so we don't have to worry about that later on either.
  13. Nozzle

    Nozzle

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    870
    Tort
    SUPPORT Mesprit
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  14. Magical Magmortar

    Magical Magmortar

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    175
    Torterra
    Druddigon
  15. Detective Scruffy

    Detective Scruffy

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2013
    Messages:
    44
    Choice Scarf Braviary
    Support Torterra
  16. The Leprechaun

    The Leprechaun

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    277
    There's 2 Mesprit sets bro.
    Laga, EonX, Nozzle and 1 other person like this.
  17. ScarlequinTheImmortalGod

    ScarlequinTheImmortalGod Banned deucer.

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    54
    TORTERRA
    DRUDDIGON
    ~SCARLEQUIN THE IMMORTAL ALMIGHTY GOD
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  18. Kushalos

    Kushalos
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    259
    Support druddigon
    Support Torterra<this thing is going to win lol


    And now its time to go look for some fighting resistances :X
  19. Turtleye

    Turtleye

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    366
    Support Torterra
    Support Druddigon
  20. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,181
    Winner is Torterra support here;


    [​IMG]

    Torterra @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 96 Spd / 212 HP / 44 Atk / 156 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Seed Bomb
    - Earthquake
    - Synthesis

    Submit R5 Submissions begin.

    Rules / Reminders:

    • Submissions end 3-4 days from now.
    • There are no more slashes on Pokemon sets. Different slashes can take a team in different directions.
    • You will be unable to change the submission in anyway after the deadline until the revision rounds. So if there are any suggested changes are you set (moves, EV's, etc.) do it before the submission deadline!
    • Refer back to the OP for the main rules, format, and reminders.
    • When you submit your set, think about how it contributes to the function of the team. Also think about what direction you beleive the team should go, and reflect that in the submitted set.
    • Don't just let submissions be the only contribution to this round.
    Check the rest of the team in the OP.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  21. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,011
    really keep lilligant in mind from now on, it completely screws over this team. we have stealth rock now, which is cool, so stuff like roselia, druddigon, amoonguss, emboar and entei could mabye start to be considered? lilligant gets a free switch in on both torterra and lanturn, and sets up with impunity. while it can't come in on the snails, neither of them can obviously come in on it if it's an hp fire variant, and it can proceed to ohko both. both of the next team members need to be able to deal with lilligant at all costs

    im not calling out the lanturn and torterra noms, as they do help against other threats, but both of them are completely unable to deal with grass types, which is obviously problematic for omastar. sceptile is another pokemon that can pretty much blow through this team if it's played well with hazards / has hp fire. the team is also slow as balls at the moment, which means that pretty much everything is forced to take a hit, and only torterra has recovery. everything is grounded as well, so spikes do a number on the team.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
    Silvershadow234 likes this.
  22. col49

    col49 unpolished
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,055
    Ok, so I got peer pressured into posting, but I guess I had to voice my issues at some point anyway. Basically, I've been concerned with the direction this CCAT has been taking since the Lanturn pick (sorry Molk, nothing against you, I hope you understand :[ ). I strongly feel as though we as a community really jumped the gun on incorporating a defensive pivot such as Lanturn onto the team without really recognizing why we were doing so; as soon as Cherub mentioned the Moltres weakness, everybody jumped on the paranoia bandwagon (I mean, I know it's basically team-building with Cherub and whatever, but we're all sentient beings too, yeah? ;( ), and this can be reflected nicely in the Lanturn pick. If you think about it, what is Lanturn doing besides switching into Moltres (probably only once, unless we're gonna be splurging for Wish support lol)? It's checking a decent handful of 'mons and stopping Volt Switch, yeah, but it's just way too clunky for a team of this nature to not be providing anything beyond some generalized defensive pivot. It retains next to no offensive presence (which slows down the team a ton from an offensive outlook), Heal Bell support on what should very well be a pretty offensively inclined team is very rarely worth a moveslot, and it's best way of deterring set-up is Scald. It doesn't even pack Protect, so EBelt Electric-types can still run train on the team unless we do a ton of excessive scouting, and considering how naturally such Pokemon pair with Spikes this means we'd basically be letting everything take chip damage while the opp can essentially just click buttons and do relatively well. I could mention the other issues this sorta a pick develops (hp fire lilli as cherub mentions, offensive drudd just comes in an wears down our only method of combatting oma's checks / counters, etc.), but I don't think that's necessary tbh.

    tl;dr, this team took a defensive stance far too quickly and without considering the ramifications of such a shift, when it should've been taking the time to focus on offensive synergy and opening a window for an oma sweep. This isn't to say that posts like Cherub makes wherein they detail threats to the current team should be ignored, as they are largely valuable to making an effective final product. However, these issues shouldn't immediately be counteracted with the first 'mon listed in the C&C section of their analysis, because that sorta thinking doesn't reflect well upon the team itself. Note there are other methods of mitigating threats, such as preventing such Pokemon from acquiring the free turns necessary to pose a threat, and even those that cannot be solved this way can be solved in later picks, when we have a pretty clear-cut way of setting up an oma sweep, perhaps an alternative win-con or two in case that falls through, etc. I know we're kinda stuck as is, but I'd like you to give this some consideration for future picks, and perhaps in the editing stage we could fix some things in order to better reflect this.

    However, for now:
    10:25 hotncold someone submit emboar now
    10:25 hotncold col49
    10:25 hotncold submit emboar
    10:25 hotncold yn
    10:25 hotncold for lilli / durant / esca


    [​IMG]
    Emboar @ Choice Scarf | Blaze
    Jolly | 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Flare Blitz | Superpower | Sleep Talk | Wild Charge

    I'm not going to say that Emboar is "mandatory" for this team, but in it's current state we really need some kinda gluemon for this team, and Emboar is the most effectual 'mon for this purpose. As HnC kindly points out, this team faces great difficulty with Lilligant, Durant, and Escavalier, all of whom find quite a few opportunities to come in and pose a significant threat to the team; HP Fire Lilligant can outright beat every member of the team 1v1 (and HP Rock variants+Magnets cause similar issues unless we're expected to be going into Esca on Lilli, doubling to Tort on the Magneton switch, and repeating until SR wears Magneton down enough late Megahorn can take it out .-.), Durant finds a free turn v.Tort+Esca to an extent and OHKOs everything from there iirc, and Esca just comes in just 2HKO's / OHKOs everything (252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Megahorn vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 159-187 (49.22 - 57.89%) -- 97.66% chance to 2HKO). It also offers an alternative win-con to some extent, since we pack Pursuit support for Slowking and enough means to wear down other Fire- and Water-types moderately well, so there's that. Doubling up on Sleep Talk users is somewhat excessive imo, but it's not like Emboar has anything it'd rather be running anywho, so the extra insurance is there.

    Sorry for the apathetic tone of the 'nom, I really made the effort to rephrase things, but nothing was coming readily to mind.
  23. Kushalos

    Kushalos
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    259
    tbh i never think Lanturn shouldve been on this team but now we're gonna have scarf Emboar so im happy again :>
  24. Nozzle

    Nozzle

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    870
    GDI i had this entire post written up and it got deleted ugh.

    [​IMG] (pls tell me im not the only one who thinks hes fappin with his left hand)
    Durrdigon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    216 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpA / 20 Spe
    Lonely Nature
    -Outrage
    -Flamethrower
    -Earthquake
    -Rock Slide

    Ugh here we go again. Durrdigon handles a lot of threats to our team very well. We currently have a lot of trouble with Grass types and Fire types to some extent (Sun decimates us as of now) and Druddigon handles Sun pretty damn well. We lure Steel Types like Durant/Escavalier/Steelix and burn their shiny metal asses. Lanturn's Cleric Support really helps out here so we don't have to run Sub. Rock Slide hits Moltres and gets SF boost and gives us SlideQuake. I think SF Drudd would be a great Glue for the team as of now.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  25. Molk

    Molk tfw zoroark
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,287
    Sorry about Lanturn :[

    I know this was actually proposed earlier for another teamslot by detective scruffy (if this submission wins he should definitely get some credit, js), but i think this is actually a p. good alternative to emboar (although Emboar is really solid for this team lol), especially given our latest Choice in torterra, which makes a way to deal with Hp Fire lilligant all the more valuable.

    [​IMG]
    Braviary (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Return
    - Superpower
    - U-turn

    Choice Scarf Braviary seems like it'd be a pretty nice fit to our current team at the moment because of its combination of power, bulk, and Speed, just like Emboar. As mentioned by quite a few other users above, this team struggles quite a bit with Grass-type Pokemon that carry Hidden Power Fire such as Lilligant and Sceptile, and Braviary performs pretty well against them, outspeeding both of them at +0 (+1 Lilligant Outspeeds but can't KO with +1 Hidden Power Fire after Stealth Rock) and threatening an immediate OHKO with Brave Bird. Unlike say Emboar though, Braviary has another trick up its sleeve that could be quite helpful: U-turn. This makes it quite easy for Braviary to grab momentum during the match with the switches it forces against the Pokemon it's meant to deal with, and can give us an immediate advantage quite easily, especially because nothing's immune to the move like with say Volt Switch. Speaking of Volt Switch, Braviary actually makes a really solid volturn core with Lanturn, being immune to the Ground-type moves that Lanturn hates as well as checking the Grass-types, while Lanturn is immune to Electric-type moves and resists Ice-type moves that might be aimed at Braviary, making the two a natural pair (Lanturn hits Rock-types such as Rhydon super effectively with Scald too, which is nice, Omastar and Kabutops can't immediately KO Lanturn without a boost and get scared out by Volt Switch too). Lastly, despite not having access to a good Fire-type move, Braviary is still capable of revenge killing a weakened Durant quite effectively, as Brave Bird comes quite close to OHKOing after Stealth Rock. Overall while i'm not sure if its the perfect fit compared to say Emboar, Choice Scarf Braviary does seem pretty solid on this team, and i'd definitely give it some consideration.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)