Gen 3 Rate meh NB team

#1
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Spe / 224 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Hidden Power (Ice)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 144 HP / 68 Atk / 132 Def / 164 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Earthquake
- Rest

Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 232 Atk / 228 Spe / 48 SDef
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power (Bug)
- Rock Slide

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 240 HP / 18 Spe / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Surf

Weezing (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Haze
- Pain Split
- Sludge Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 1 SAtk / 1 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Body Slam
- Doom Desire
- Protect
- Wish

Should I replace HP ice with HP grass on Zapdos? Also, should I sub out ice beam on starmie and replace with thunderbolt? or should i change both/leave both alone?
 

Umby

I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
is a Contributor Alumnus
#2
First of all, Jirachi gets Serene Grace; not Rock Head. Second of all, the set isn't really doing anything for your team accept for the use of Wish, which it can use on one of its regular sets. In light of that you'd be better off with Wish/Calm Mind/Psychic/Thunder(bolt) or Reflect.

You have slight issues doing consistent and relevant damage, so HP Grass would be the way to go. The only pall there is that you'll have a few issues with Dragons (Dragonite in particular) if you can't find a way to get around them. That's why it's important for Starmie to have Ice Beam at this juncture.

Gengar and Boahnite rip this one apart. Jirachi with Psychic gives Gar problems, but that becomes prediactable, and next switch in you'll find yourself face to face with an opposing Dugtrio. You can get past Dragons better if you have a Swampert, but Dugtrio cleans up better here, so you'd have to find some other way of dealing with that issue.
 
#3
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Spe / 224 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Hidden Power (Ice)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt

For a Zapdos lead, I do think HP Ice is best. Then again, you already have Ice Beam on Starmie which does have 95 base power vs. 70 (significantly more), so HP Ice is repetitious yet gives the faux boltbeam combo. Plus, you would need to invest in more sp. attack for better performance w/ HP Ice. What if Zapdos was modest?

HP Grass is really only for Swampert, but since you aren't using spikes or toxic to wear it out, it may be advisable.

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 144 HP / 68 Atk / 132 Def / 164 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Earthquake
- Rest

Go with Return since Jirachi will prolly be haxing stuff w/ Body Slam anyways and EQ scares T-tar.
+Sp. def nature since it's Snorlax's best stat and it needs to do walling. More of a reason to make Zapdos modest to really threaten OHKOs on Salamence leads.


Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 232 Atk / 228 Spe / 48 SDef
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power (Bug)
- Rock Slide

Third poke in and no answer for Gengar I see. I assume this Dugtrio is outspeeding whatever you need it to and capable of surviving any Raikou HP before it gets a calm mind and OHKOing it. Since Snorlax is packing EQ too, I think not going adamant is less of an issue.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 240 HP / 18 Spe / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Surf

I question the best way to EV Starmie since I've never used one. It should outspeed +speed houndoom though. To directly answer the questions at the end of your post, I suggest keeping Ice Beam and Surf on Starmie and putting HP Grass on Zapdos (keeping it calm is fine then, but not necessarily the lead.)
Weezing (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Haze
- Pain Split
- Sludge Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp

So you are depending on this in order to haze last poke curselax and "status" swampert at the moment. No reversal sweep cuz of this too. Burn what you can, cuz Weezing just scares physical attackers away.


Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 1 SAtk / 1 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Body Slam
- Doom Desire
- Protect
- Wish

Rock Head...wtf? Looks like Aero was in place of this...perhaps? No comment. The move set is for Jirachi alright, though. EVs for jirachi need to focus on hp and defense. This is your only rock/normal/fly resist. Protect + Wish does help. Doom Desire goes along with that, but watch out when its accuracy decides to bite you in the ass. Fire Punch is an alternative to not have Skarm wanna come in and Sub.

Subbing pokes in general are a nightmare for this team to deal with. Jolteon BPing/Ninjask/ViL-Tar. For that you should have some phazing move. DD-Tar and CB Aero will hurt too.
I like how starmie has the sp. attack, recover, and natural cure to make dusclops not be a total douche-bag to spinning.
CM Suicune will stay in and find Zapdos' hits weak once powered up. Physically you can't get past it either.
And just cuz I feel like saying it, Blaziken can make any team without Sala/Gyara cry. The lack of spikes/sand also welcomes it into play. Duggy needs to revenge kill it but Reversal Blaziken w/ Fire Blast could do the trick (does Starmie survive reversal?)
Zapdos can sorta counter it and the often seen bellyzard with no rock slide.

Altogether, I can see difficulty trying to set up Snorlax for a sweep due to phazing. And then you don't have a phazer to help with screwing up the opponent's strategy. NEEDS A PHAZER.

Overall, to your credit, another thing I like is how there are 2 resters to sop up status, a wisher, and natural cure. Weezing and Jirachi can't be Toxiced anyways, which is nice. So yea, no beller is necessary so long as you're careful.
 
#4
After reading Synchronize's post, I'll point out that Zapdos usually is one of the safest pokes against any form of Dragonite. Sadly, max sp. attack Ice Beam is a 3hko against foobunny's defensive calm Zapdos. Zapdos should be faster though in order to damage with T-bolt first, assuming no HP Ice.

To go along with the no phazing troubles the team has, Mean Look+Perish Song and Umbreon trap-passing/taunting/charming are simple threats that take the team down.
 
#5
I appologize for the messup with Jirachi. I had copied another post to get the format right and must have forgotten to edit the very last one. I'll go and find the correct info.
 
#6
******Here is the team now that I have corrected those oversights

Zapdos @ Leftovers ** Thunder
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Spd / 224 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers ** Kabigon
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 144 HP / 68 Atk / 132 Def / 164 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Earthquake
- Rest

Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band ** Dagutorio
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 232 Atk / 228 Spd / 48 SDef
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

Starmie @ Leftovers ** Sutami
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 222 HP / 36 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Surf

Weezing (M) @ Leftovers ** Matadogas
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Haze
- Pain Split
- Sludge Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 100 SDef / 32 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Light Screen
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave
- Wish
 

Umby

I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
is a Contributor Alumnus
#7
You still have issues dealing damage to/taking damage from Swampert, and weezing won't stop a Rest variant. You might try Reflect over Light Screen. Other than that, just watch out for the random 400+ HP DDTar that can take a Duggie EQ at full health.
 
#8
Thunderwave on jirachi? Shouldnt that be Thunder(bolt)?

blizzard works in that moveslot if you want thunder > ice beam on starmie. An electric move on starmie, zapdos and jirachi is somewhat repetitive.

The best part is, blizzard on jirachi has a 60% freeze chance! This would help a lot with wishpassing.

I don't like curselax. what about a yawnpuncher? (for PHazing) mine uses yawn, focus punch, rest and shadow ball. works well with a spiker.

Or counterlax, but u might need more defense. I don't have anything to refer to right now, so im not sure about EV's but you would need decent defenses to pull this off. Counter, rest, return, eq/shadow ball/ brick break.
 

Umby

I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
is a Contributor Alumnus
#9
Thunderwave on jirachi? Shouldnt that be Thunder(bolt)?

Both work.

blizzard works in that moveslot if you want thunder > ice beam on starmie. An electric move on starmie, zapdos and jirachi is somewhat repetitive.

Jirachi doesn't get Blizzard.

The best part is, blizzard on jirachi has a 60% freeze chance! This would help a lot with wishpassing.

Jirachi doesn't get Blizzard.

I don't like curselax. what about a yawnpuncher? (for PHazing) mine uses yawn, focus punch, rest and shadow ball. works well with a spiker.

No.

Or counterlax, but u might need more defense. I don't have anything to refer to right now, so im not sure about EV's but you would need decent defenses to pull this off. Counter, rest, return, eq/shadow ball/ brick break.

Brick Break is useless without STAB. It'd be something more like Body Slam/Counter/Fire Blast/Earthquake or Selfdestruct
Someone needs to sticky a topic of how Brick Break is just about useless without STAB, wish Mixmence being an exception.
 
#10
I've fooled with a Brick Break/Shadow Ball Curselax, and I'd say it's pretty useful for the neutral damage to everything if you're looking for a sweeper that does not need much support and can switch in many times.