Raticate [QC: 2/3]

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QC: WhiteDMist / Anty / ?
GP: ? / ?

Overview
########
  • Access to Guts and STAB Facade
  • Guts unable to be crippled by burn or paralysis
  • Priority in Sucker Punch
  • Faster than Guts Ursaring
  • Late-game sweeper
  • Raticate pros: U-turn, Sucker Punch, outspeeds Haunter and Sawsbuck, speed ties with Frogadier
  • Mediocre Attack stat
  • Frail defensive stats
  • Average Speed stat limits his potential to late game sweeping or clean up

Offense
########
name: Offense
move 1: U-turn
move 2: Facade
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Protect / Swords Dance
ability: Guts
item: Toxic Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly

Moves
========
  • U-turn allows Raticate to keep team momentum and also prevent getting burn or toxic damage while still taking advantage of the activated Guts boost
  • Facade allows for heavy damage due to the STAB, status, and Guts boosts it gets
  • Sucker Punch allows Raticate to move first against faster targets due to it's semi-mediocre base 97 Speed stat and also allows for coverage against Ghost-types
  • Crunch is an alternative to Sucker Punch to allow reliable damage without worrying about Ghost-types such as Gourgeist and Misdreavus as much. You still have to sacrifice priority for it though.
  • Protect allows Raticate to freely activate Toxic Orb without receiving damage or if it is unable to KO a Pokemon that turn without Guts activated
  • Swords Dance allows Raticate to bluff a protect of just freely set up on a prediction due to it's meager base 81 Attack stat, allowing it to truly unlock it's true potential in sweeping and wallbreaking
Set Details
========
  • 252 EVs invested in Speed to ensure Raticate outspeeds as much as possible
  • Toxic Orb is ran over Flame Orb due to the first 2 turns of Toxic dealing less damage to Raticate compared to a burn.
  • Jolly over Adamant to take advantage of Raticate's higher Speed stat that Ursaring doesn't have
Usage Tips
========
  • Take advantage of the fact that Raticate can't be crippled by Wil-O-Wisp or Thunder Wave (or moves of the like) by using it to predict moves such as Toxic (note that Thunder Wave cripples Raticate's speed, but it still gets the Guts boost)
  • Be wary of switching Raticate in on possible attacks, as Raticate is not only very frail but it takes status damage as well
  • Be wary of Steel- and Rock-types as Raticate cannot do very much damage to them; it's good to U-turn or switch out unless you are set up and they have already taken damage
  • Try to activate your Toxic Orb as soon as possible without having to take a hit as Raticate is very weak without the boost
  • Be wary of common Pokemon with priority moves such as Sneasel, Purugly, Piloswine, etc.
  • Take advantage of using U-turn when you have the clear favorable match-up and you can tell your opponent are going to make a switch into a Pokemon that handles Raticate
  • A lot of people assume Protect on Raticate. Use this to your advantage when it comes to predicting and you are running Swords Dance
  • Activate your Toxic Orb as soon as possible, which can be done even without Protect by revenge killing, forcing switches, or having a teammate with a slow pivot move like U-turn come in after absorbing the damage for Raticate
Team Options
========
  • Carry a Pokemon with hazards such as Spikes (Roselia) or Stealth Rocks (Piloswine/Golem), that way you won't have to worry about sashes and it allows Pokemon to get into KO range easier (+2 Raticate Facade knocks out an Avalugg after Stealth Rock damage, guarantees an OHKO on Tauros, 50% chance to OHKO a Bouffalant after triple stacked Spikes)
  • Raticate as trouble with Steel- and Rock-types, and non-offensive Ghost-types such as Misdreavus, making Throh or Piloswine great teammates
  • Take advantage of U-turn momentum and build a U-turn or Volt/Turn core with a Pokemon like Raichu, Purugly, or Scyther. Slow pivots such as Pelipper are also great for Raticate to absorb any damage and allow Raticate to get it's Toxic Orb activated for free.
  • Stallbreaker Misdreavus and Raticate make a great pairing due to Misdreavus being able to counter or check Pokemon that wall Raticate like Avalugg, Golem, or Gourgeist. Misdreavus can Burn opposing physical attackers as well as walls to wither them down, allowing Raticate to clean up easily, as well as Taunt walls to make sure their utility moves are denied.
  • Carry Pokemon with Rapid Spin or Defog as Raticate will be switching in and out, making Pokemon such as Togetic, Swanna, Vullaby, or in some cases Avalugg great teammates
  • Kricketune and Ariados are great on teams with Raticate because Sticky Webs allows Raticate to outspeed some Choice Scarf Pokemon and almost all grounded Pokemon in the tier
  • Wall breakers such as Scyther and Marowak are great teammates for Raticate because they weaken the enemy team enough for Raticate to come in and clean up

Other Options
########
  • Super Fang to cripple walls
  • Taunt for more of a supportive utility set
  • Wild Charge for bulky Water-types
  • Zen Headbutt for Fighting-types
  • Grass Knot for Golem/Bastiodon/etc.
  • Pursuit for trapping and eliminating Pokemon
  • Choice Band Hustle is not recommended, but it can hit hard (when it hits)

Checks & Counters
########

**Rock- and Steel-Types**: Raticate can't really damage these types at all, with the exception of Pokemon such as Metang, which could still take a Sucker Punch from Raticate. Golem is free to do whatever he wants when in on a Raticate, same with Barbaracle and Carracosta.

**Choice Scarf Pokemon**: Choice Scarf users are all able to 1v1 Raticate due to, again, his bad defensive stats, such as Tauros and Rotom-F.

**Faster Pokemon**: Common Pokemon with naturally high Speed stats are able to KO Raticate fairly easily due to how frail Raticate is. These Pokemon include, but are not limited to, Scyther, Raichu, Ninetales, etc.

**Bulky Ghost-types**: Bulky Ghost-types such as Misdreavus and Gourgeist easily stall out Raticate due to Raticate being unable to Sucker Punch them, while he can't set up Swords Dances either due to moves like Taunt, and takes high residual damage from moves like SubSeed Gourgeist, who once behind a substitute can safely Seed Bomb.

**Avalugg**: Avalugg can take a Facade from Raticate and hit back with an Avalanche. It can also stall out Raticate with Recover or stack damage with Rocky Helmet plus Toxic Damage. Avalugg can take a Swords Dance boosted Facade as long as it is over 87% healthy.
 
Last edited:

Anty

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I dont see what possible niche Raticate has over Ursaring. Quick Feet Ursaring is a tiny bit stronger as Guts Raticate:
252 Atk Guts Raticate Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 316-373 (82.2 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 319-376 (83 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Rat's 55/60/70 bulk is much worse than ursarings 90/75/75.
The speed is the main difference. Jolly raticate gets to 322, but adamant Ursaring gets to 312 (one more than base 92's). And what do you outspeed:
anty!searchpu spe>92, spe<98
TIBotRaticate, Plusle, Minun, Luvdisc, Pachirisu, Unfezant, Sawsbuck

The only relevant one being Sawsbuck (also outspeeds haunter), and i dont think those two are relevant enough.
Now look at the movepool, they both get facade, Raticate gets u-turn and sucker punch, however ursaring gets eq, close combat, elemental punches, play rough. This coverage allows ursaring to break bastiodon, golem and klang, and more importantly, is not costa settup fodder
Overal:
Raticate pros: uturn, sucker punch, outspeeds haunter and sawsbuck
Ursaring pros: Better coverage, much more bulk, cant tell if quick feet or guts before hand
I dont think its niche is enough tbh. I would rather purugly for uturn/sucker punch, due to higher speed + pressure vs webs.

Btw you would want toxic orb as you wont be staying in for more than 3 turns and the first 2 turns do less damage.
BadPandaPancham
 
First note: I am not QC, these are just some thoughts of mine.

Overview:
- You don't mention any cons in the overview. Raticate has poor bulk (55/60/70) meaning it doesn't have much staying power.
- The Guts mention isn't completely right, paralysis still cripples Raticate by lowering Speed to 0.25x the normal amount and giving it a 25% chance not to move.
- Mention as con, that it faces heavy competition from other Guts attackers like Ursaring (You only mention its pros over Ursaring, however it does have more cons than pros over Ursaring)

Set:
- Toxic Orb is better than Flame Orb, just like Anty said, because Raticate can switch out with U-turn, and loses slightly less damage in the beginning. Also change this in Set Details IMO.

Set Details:
- You should probably give examples of invested base 90 Pokemon and examples of unnatured base 110's. (Defensive Jumpluff, for example.)

Usage Tips:
- 2nd point, I don't think you should switch Raticate in any attack because its poor bulk, only in a Toxic/WoW or in a predicted Ghost-type attack..
- mention to switch it out when a rock or steel type on the field
- How do you mean bluff? Like, saying to the opponent: incoming protect? If it's like that, you should most likely remove it.

Other Options:
- Hustle with Double-Edge for direct power, but less accuracy
- Pursuit
- Work Up for greeding
- Ice Beam or Thunderbolt to deal with stuff such as Altaria or Pelipper better, but isn't worth it due Raticate's low Special Attack

Checks & Counters:

- Points 4 & 5 can be fused into a **Bulky Ghost-types** section
- Status recoil probably.
 
First note: I am not QC, these are just some thoughts of mine.

Overview:
- You don't mention any cons in the overview. Raticate has poor bulk (55/60/70) meaning it doesn't have much staying power.
- The Guts mention isn't completely right, paralysis still cripples Raticate by lowering Speed to 0.25x the normal amount and giving it a 25% chance not to move.
- Mention as con, that it faces heavy competition from other Guts attackers like Ursaring (You only mention its pros over Ursaring, however it does have more cons than pros over Ursaring)

Set:
- Toxic Orb is better than Flame Orb, just like Anty said, because Raticate can switch out with U-turn, and loses slightly less damage in the beginning. Also change this in Set Details IMO.

Set Details:
- You should probably give examples of invested base 90 Pokemon and examples of unnatured base 110's. (Defensive Jumpluff, for example.)

Usage Tips:
- 2nd point, I don't think you should switch Raticate in any attack because its poor bulk, only in a Toxic/WoW or in a predicted Ghost-type attack..
- mention to switch it out when a rock or steel type on the field
- How do you mean bluff? Like, saying to the opponent: incoming protect? If it's like that, you should most likely remove it.

Other Options:
- Hustle with Double-Edge for direct power, but less accuracy
- Pursuit
- Work Up for greeding
- Ice Beam or Thunderbolt to deal with stuff such as Altaria or Pelipper better, but isn't worth it due Raticate's low Special Attack

Checks & Counters:

- Points 4 & 5 can be fused into a **Bulky Ghost-types** section
- Status recoil probably.
For set, already changed to Toxic Orb
Usage tips, already have predicting status moves, just added in Ghost.
For bluffing, I re-worded it but what I meant by that is your opponent will usually assume you are going for a Protect first turn with Raticate, allowing you to SD while they switch/use a set up move or so.
For Set Details, changed
For other options, I don't think Hustle+Double Edge is very viable, neither is a special set, but Pursuit has been added.
Updated Checks & Counters, but idk if Status Recoil is a check or counter.
 
I dont see what possible niche Raticate has over Ursaring. Quick Feet Ursaring is a tiny bit stronger as Guts Raticate:
252 Atk Guts Raticate Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 316-373 (82.2 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 319-376 (83 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Rat's 55/60/70 bulk is much worse than ursarings 90/75/75.
The speed is the main difference. Jolly raticate gets to 322, but adamant Ursaring gets to 312 (one more than base 92's). And what do you outspeed:
anty!searchpu spe>92, spe<98
TIBotRaticate, Plusle, Minun, Luvdisc, Pachirisu, Unfezant, Sawsbuck

The only relevant one being Sawsbuck (also outspeeds haunter), and i dont think those two are relevant enough.
Now look at the movepool, they both get facade, Raticate gets u-turn and sucker punch, however ursaring gets eq, close combat, elemental punches, play rough. This coverage allows ursaring to break bastiodon, golem and klang, and more importantly, is not costa settup fodder
Overal:
Raticate pros: uturn, sucker punch, outspeeds haunter and sawsbuck
Ursaring pros: Better coverage, much more bulk, cant tell if quick feet or guts before hand
I dont think its niche is enough tbh. I would rather purugly for uturn/sucker punch, due to higher speed + pressure vs webs.

Btw you would want toxic orb as you wont be staying in for more than 3 turns and the first 2 turns do less damage.
BadPandaPancham
Fixed Toxic Orb over Flame Orb
 

Anty

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After realising that every poke is getting an analysis, i think you have to mention the few pros it has over ursaring:
Raticate pros: uturn, sucker punch, outspeeds haunter and sawsbuck, speed ties with frogadier
Definitely mention that in overview!!!!

Definitely put crunch in oo, or even slash it with sucker punch as it allows you to get damage off on ghosts on the switch:
252 Atk Guts Raticate Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 192-228 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Guts Raticate Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 120-142 (32 - 37.9%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It at least does some damage (most of the time you will u turn out anyways). There are also some niche ways of hitting your checks; grass knot for golem (can ohko with niave nature), revenge for bastiodon. You can briefly mention them in a point in oo, although it isnt necessary.
 
After realising that every poke is getting an analysis, i think you have to mention the few pros it has over ursaring:

Definitely mention that in overview!!!!

Definitely put crunch in oo, or even slash it with sucker punch as it allows you to get damage off on ghosts on the switch:
252 Atk Guts Raticate Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 192-228 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Guts Raticate Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 120-142 (32 - 37.9%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It at least does some damage (most of the time you will u turn out anyways). There are also some niche ways of hitting your checks; grass knot for golem (can ohko with niave nature), revenge for bastiodon. You can briefly mention them in a point in oo, although it isnt necessary.
updated, I really like the mention of Grass Knot too
 
For other options, I don't think Hustle+Double Edge is very viable, neither is a special set, but Pursuit has been added.

OO is meant for other options that definitely do not deserve a main set, i.e bulky wow talonflame (completley unrelevant, just needed an example)
 
For other options, I don't think Hustle+Double Edge is very viable, neither is a special set, but Pursuit has been added.

OO is meant for other options that definitely do not deserve a main set, i.e bulky wow talonflame (completley unrelevant, just needed an example)
yeah, but Work-up Tbolt isn't needed as Wild Charge is an option, etc. I just don't think they are even worth the mention since Hustle+Double Edge has you taking recoil just like Guts, so there really isn't a reason to run it instead of Guts+Facade
 

WhiteDMist

Path>Goal
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Overview
########
- Note that Raticate is best as a late game cleaner

Guts Offense
########
- I don't think the "Offense" part is necessary, calling it "Guts" keeps it consistent with the rest of the site.
- I would move Protect/Swords Dance to the 4th slot, it looks weird for the first move to have slashes.

Moves
========
- Reorder in response to the change.

Usage Tips
========
- Thunder Wave still cripples Raticate, it just gets a Guts boost to mitigate it somewhat.
- Explain how to activate Toxic Orb without Protect (ie- pivot moves such as a slow U-turn, revenge kill)

Team Options
========
- What specific KOes do hazards achieve? Every Pokemon likes hazards so there's no point in mentioning this without specific examples. I agree that this is pretty important, but try and find a notable KO first.
- Add some slow U-turn/VS/BP users, all you have are fast ones. Fast ones rely more on sheer offensive pressure to successfuly activate Toxic Orb, while slow pivots take a hit and safely bring Raticate in.

Checks & Counters
########
- Avalugg deserves a mention as a check because it can take a Facade and retaliate with Avalanche. It can even withstand a boosted Facade if it is over 87% healthy.

This stuff is pretty easy, and I'm sure you can find a calc that requires hazards (Avalugg is a possible example actually, although even then it requires a SD boost so maybe an extra one that doesn't require a boost). Implement this and

qc approved
1/3
 

Anty

let's drop
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Overview
########
You might want to mention that its average speed limits it at sweeping late game

Offense
########
Moves
========
Mention crunch here (not a slash), as it lets it beat leach seed gour and np missy that try to stall it out

Set Details
========
Saying 'outspeed as much as possible' is fine, as no base 110 runs neutral nature

Team Options
========
Remove garbo and serp mention. Also make clear what move is ko'ing the pokes after hazards.
Physically defensive leafeon isnt note worthy, you have enough examples anyway
Use a better example of what missy helps, bastiodon is ass
Mention wall breakers to soften up the opposing team to late raticate sweep

Other Options
########
No mantine pls
Also crunch has been moved to moves e.e
Hustle + cb deserves a mention

Checks & Counters
########

**Rock- and Steel-Types**: Examples

**Sticky Webs**: Remove this as sticky web isnt relevant enough IMO

**Choice Scarf Pokemon**: examples

I think you can add **Faster Pokemon**, it isnt hard to revenge kill as it has 0 bulk.
BadPandaPancham implement this and i will check over again before i stamp
 
Overview
########
You might want to mention that its average speed limits it at sweeping late game

Offense
########
Moves
========
Mention crunch here (not a slash), as it lets it beat leach seed gour and np missy that try to stall it out

Set Details
========
Saying 'outspeed as much as possible' is fine, as no base 110 runs neutral nature

Team Options
========
Remove garbo and serp mention. Also make clear what move is ko'ing the pokes after hazards.
Physically defensive leafeon isnt note worthy, you have enough examples anyway
Use a better example of what missy helps, bastiodon is ass
Mention wall breakers to soften up the opposing team to late raticate sweep

Other Options
########
No mantine pls
Also crunch has been moved to moves e.e
Hustle + cb deserves a mention

Checks & Counters
########

**Rock- and Steel-Types**: Examples

**Sticky Webs**: Remove this as sticky web isnt relevant enough IMO

**Choice Scarf Pokemon**: examples

I think you can add **Faster Pokemon**, it isnt hard to revenge kill as it has 0 bulk.
BadPandaPancham implement this and i will check over again before i stamp
Implemented everything except CB Hustle in OO. I know it's OO but that set sounds like it eats ass lol.
 

Anty

let's drop
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Implemented everything except CB Hustle in OO. I know it's OO but that set sounds like it eats ass lol.
Cb hustle is actually quite strong, I stilly think it should be oo. Otherwise I said don't slash crunch just mention in moves. TO, replace t spikes with reg spikes, as they help estivate more. Also in oo you have haunter in faster Pokemon.

Do that then qc 2/3
 
Cb hustle is actually quite strong, I stilly think it should be oo. Otherwise I said don't slash crunch just mention in moves. TO, replace t spikes with reg spikes, as they help estivate more. Also in oo you have haunter in faster Pokemon.

Do that then qc 2/3
Done!
 

scorpdestroyer

it's a skorupi egg
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BadPandaPancham when will this be written up?

Before you write this I got some pointers:
- add in usage tips that U-turn is a safe move to click midgame
- I don't think hazard removal is that critical as a team option so don't make it sound compulsory in the write-up
- don't say 3 layers of spikes OHKO Bouffalant because realistically that isn't happening. SR + 1 Spike is way more realistic and does the same damage
- you can combine Scarfers and faster mons in checks and counters. also mention they have to watch out for sucker
- you can group Avalugg as well as other physical walls like Tangela under Physical Walls
 
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