1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Raticate

Discussion in 'Dragonspiral Tower' started by leingodf8, Nov 8, 2010.

  1. leingodf8

    leingodf8

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    194
    [​IMG]
    Name: Raticate
    Type: Normal
    Abilities: Run Away: Except for trainer battles, will always run from battle.
    Guts: Attack raises 1.5 times when induced with a status
    Dream World: Hustle: Damage from physical attacks is 1.5 times, but accuracy is reduced 20%
    Stats:
    HP:
    55
    Att: 81
    Def: 60
    SpA: 50
    SpD: 70
    Spe: 97
    Code:
    Level Up
    1. Swords Dance
    1. Tackle
    1. Tail Whip
    1. Quick Attack
    1. Focus Energy
    4. Quick Attack
    7. Focus Energy
    10. Bite
    13. Pursuit
    16. Hyper Fang
    19. Sucker Punch
    20. Scary Face
    24. Crunch
    29. Assurance
    34. Super Fang
    39. Double-edge
    44. Endeavor
    
    TMs/HMs
    05. Roar
    06. Toxic
    10. Hidden Power
    11. Sunny Day
    12. Taunt
    13. Ice Beam
    14. Blizzard
    15. Hyper Beam
    17. Protect
    18. Rain Dance
    21. Frustration
    24. Thunderbolt
    25. Thunder
    27. Reutrn
    28. Dig
    30. Shadow Ball
    32. Double Team
    42. Facade
    44. Rest
    45. Attract
    46. Thief
    48. Sing A Round
    57. Charge Beam
    67. Vengeance
    68. Giga Impact
    73. Thunder Wave
    75. Swords Dance
    83. Cheer Up
    86. Grass Knot
    87. Swagger
    88. Pluck
    89. U-turn
    90. Substitute
    93. Wild Bolt
    94. Rock Smash
    001. Cut
    004. Strength
    
    Egg Moves
    Screech
    Flame Whell
    Fury Swipes
    Bite
    Counter
    Reversal
    Uproar
    Last Resort
    Me First
    Revenge
    Life Gamble
    
    Ohhh you thought you saw the last of him with the transition to gen 5 did ya? Well Raticate is back for another round and chomping at the bit. Now, its pretty safe to say... raticate isn't gonna exactly make the top tier this generation. As always, (like the rest of his furry normal brethren), he will probably be confined to a much lower usage tier, or onto fun teams. But, that doesn't mean he didn't get a few new toys to tinker with this generation. Lets have a look and see what he's got to offer us now.

    Not quite a flame orb...
    Raticate @ Choice Band
    252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Jolly
    Hustle

    Double Edge / Return
    Crunch / Sucker Punch
    U-turn
    Wild Bolt / Reversal / Me First / Quick Attack


    Well, this raticate sacrifices the freedom and status aversion of the classic flame orb set, to provide it with insane power right off the bat. Choice band and hustle combined make this little rat hit like a snorlax. The choices are pretty simple, double edge provides raw power, and return is slightly more reliable. Sucker punch is nice priority to pick off those fast ghosts, but being locked into sucker punch can spell doom for a team, so crunch is a nice option. U-turn lets him scout, while leaving a small but decent dent in the opponent. The last move is filler, wild bolt is a new option for the guy, letting him hit bulky waters better than before. Reversal isn't likely to get that powerful, but its his best way to hurt steels, so if you can get yourself into the red, it should take out a decent chunk. Me first can work to your favor at times, if you get the right move. And pursuit catches fleeing ghosts who might expect a sucker punch. Easy to use, hard to sweep with (and hustle can screw you over at times).

    Dancing Rats
    Raticate @ Life Orb / Toxic Orb
    252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Jolly
    Hustle / Guts

    Swords Dance
    Double Edge / Facade
    Sucker Punch / Crunch
    Wild Bolt / Reversal
    / Quick Attack / Protect

    Same as above but with swords instead of a band. The choice of nature is up to preference. Hustle gives you more power due to being able to abuse life orb + hustle but costs you accuracy. Toxic orb gives you immunity to paralysis and sleep (though something that tries to paralyze raticate, rather than just kill, is probably not that big a threat) and gives a decent power boost, but means you'll have to switch out sooner. This set is damn near impossible to pull off, but its there for shits and giggles.

    So aside from that... anything much new? Not a whole lot. Cheer up is an option, as his special movepool ain't that bad (like all normals), but with no ability boosting his poor base 50 SpA, its just not worth replacing a band or SD. The old lead set of focus sash + endeavor etc, still can work. Hustle can be used on that set to some effect, as it means Raticate can do some decent damage from a lead position. Finally, last resort is a gimmicky option, letting it run a stronger slower set to that old ambipom set that was fun to use on gimmicky UU teams. Finally, if you somehow have a way of keeping that sandstorm at bay, a sub salac set could be used with hustle and reversal. Again a gimmick, but hey your using raticate, might as well gimmick it up
  2. LouisCyphre

    LouisCyphre heralds disaster.

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,618
    Hustle is a 20% increase, not 50%. Not only that, it's inferior to Guts in almost all cases. It barely even raises your net damage, accounting for missed attacks.
  3. GtM

    GtM

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    Choiced Sucker Punch is horrible, it basically guarantees setup from the opponent. I'd run Crunch 100% of the time on that set, even if he misses the priority. Also, Quick Attack might be worth some mention on the Swords Dance set, since it hits for more power than SD Scizor's Bullet Punch after a Guts boost. Other than that, cool stuff. Hustle is a boon for Raticate, but it might arguably be outclassed by Guts due to the accuracy drops.

    Just confirmed that Hustle /does/ provide a 50% attack boost. Otherwise no-one would use it on anything, ever.
  4. TEA_DEMON

    TEA_DEMON

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,467
    Holy shit Raticate gets Revenge now. It's a shame that it can't really afford negative priority. Wild Bolt is interesting as now it has a good way to hit Rocks/Steels, and the recoil doesn't really bother it since it dies so quickly anyway.
  5. leingodf8

    leingodf8

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    194
    Indeed this is true, as shown.

    Guts Facade @ Toxic Orb vs 252/252 Neutral Natured Milotic
    44%-52%
    Hustle Double Edge @ Life Orb vs the same Milotic
    49%-58%

    The best thing hustle does for you, is let you hold an item aside from a status orb. Of course, the drop in accuracy is a big risk to take for a somewhat similar damage output, so guts is still potentially the better option.

    O and quick attack is a good idea I didn't quite think of, I'll throw that in there somewhere.
  6. Colonel Darren

    Colonel Darren

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    495
    I think it's a damn shame that Raticate doesn't get Claw Sharpen. That alone makes me want to lean further toward the Guts Abuse sets, as Raticate really can't afford to miss in my opinion.
  7. xRadarr

    xRadarr

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    28
    This.
    It doesn't even make sense that it doesn't get claw sharpen. It's a rat, why wouldn't it have it! At first when I saw Hustle I thought it'd be pretty cool with claw sharpen, but seeing as it somehow manages to not get it, Raticate is once again probably going to be stuck in barely-even-NU.
  8. Niched

    Niched

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    168
    GutsDance with Facade, Quick Attack/Sucker Punch and Coverage are useful, but seriously, there are better things. Like Delibird.
  9. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,979
    I disagree. Raticate is quite useable, and was last gen as well.

    SD Guts was Ursaring, but faster and with shittier coverage (and less bulk, but hey, it's a guts user). This generation, Facade+Wild Bolt/Crunch has exceptional neutral coverage, only missing out on Doryuuzu, Nattorei, and Steelix, I think, who all get hit quite hard with +3 Fire Fang, and the former two are gonna be OU, and Raticate...is not.
  10. Hagane no hoshi

    Hagane no hoshi

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    here is a cool set idea for NU this gen



    Maybe I finally can inflict some damage
    Raticate @ CHOICE BAND
    252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Jolly
    hustle

    Return
    U-turn
    Sucker Punch/crunch
    Wild Bolt


    if you have a really tough foe to deal with in NU lets say prevo stone happiny and munchlax, Crimgan or any other bulky walls in NU you can get rid of them using Extreme Risk.


    EDIT: quick attack is shit it hardly do any damage
  11. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,979
    Sucker Punch on a Choiced set?
  12. leingodf8

    leingodf8

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    194
    LoL Life gamble? The only use that would have is if raticate was at full health, and even then you wont kill barely anything with his shitty hp... Run u-turn on any choiced set so he can scout his counters.
  13. Hagane no hoshi

    Hagane no hoshi

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    7 NU pokes are faster than it with sucker punch guarantees the kill(except for entei and floatzel) as they have weak defenses and low hp.

    I am realizing that through some testing Life gamble don't work well it's a fail explosion even with it's nerf so yeah your right U-turn is better
  14. Jirachee

    Jirachee I devote this Custom Title to Dice, my Supreme Overlord
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,573
    Super Fang is an option too, since in UU Steelix will wall you. Its useless on choiced sets, but useful on set up ones.
  15. Flareon

    Flareon

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    470
    Raticate will be used as much as he was used in the past.

    In other words, see "NU" for more details
  16. Dead Gardeviors

    Dead Gardeviors

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2010
    Messages:
    2
    Wallbreaker
    Raticate @ Focus Sash/better suggestion
    252 atk/252 Spd/(4 def/SpD)
    Jolly
    Guts
    Super Fang
    Death gambit
    Quick Attack
    Crunch

    I understand that this isn’t a very good set, but it’s interesting to use against walls such as blissey and natty, who might wall your team otherwise. Crunch hits what death gambit doesn’t hit hard, super fang, then death gambit against all non-ghost types for a 2HKO unless their HP is odd, and quick attack for priority, in case the opponent thinks they've killed your priority users already. I found this set to be too interesting to be unspoken of. I would personally only recommend this if you really, really hate blissey, skarmory, natty, and bulky waters.
    If they switch their wall out on a predicted super fang, anything switching into it that isn't a ghost will get hit hard, then put in or near OHKO range by death gambit.

    Edit: so yeah its outclassed by the sturdy/shell bell/endeavor gimmick and serves the same purpose, except this hits ghosts hard, and it can be used in lvl 50/100 only tourneys, and you don't get the same shame as from using the gimmick that outclasses it, and might be only usable, if at all in the PO servers, where id guess the mechanics of the move are the same as the teambuilder description, though i haven't tried it myself or seen it used after 100+ battles
  17. leingodf8

    leingodf8

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    194
    Again... death gambit or life gamble or whatever the hell its called, is a fairly bleh attack and is DEFINITELY terrible on raticate. He has shitty hp, so he will do a maximum of 314 HP damage, and that's at max 252 HP (which he should never run). The only possible use it has on raticate, is a surefire way to destroy shuckle...
  18. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    172
    Just one small thing (probably a typo), but I believe Raticate has base 81 Attack.
  19. Kindrindra

    Kindrindra

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    Messages:
    221
    Not really. In gen 4, I've swept some Uber teams with Raticate. With no Baton Pass. Gut-boosted, SD-boosted Facade HURTS. Alongside Facade and Swords Dance, I ran Crunch to hit ghosts and those that resist Facade, and Flame Wheel (I know, lol, but, strangely, it actually worked) for Steel-types.

    I can't count the number of teams I swept with that.
  20. M BLADE

    M BLADE

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,272
    up this thread. Can i?
    playing with this set now:

    Raticate @ Focus Sash
    EVs: 252 atk/ 252 spe/ 6 hp
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Hustle
    -Swords Dance
    -Return
    -Reversal
    -Sucker Punch

    Miss miss miss, but funny when it hits. Focus Sash guarantees the SD (well, not always...), Return/Reversal any bitches on your way, Sucker Punch because rats are sneaky.

    This thing packs quite a punch with SD + Hustle. Did i said miss?
    DO NOT USE IT ON OU, THANK YOU.
  21. mathwiz 314

    mathwiz 314

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    as far as I see raticate, going all the way back to gen 1, "speed + super fang" is what makes it unique. even if it is sacrificial, a mid to late game switch in on a rather annoying pokemon (like bronzong, blissey, or any other annoying wall, or maybe even swampert), and at least get 1 super fang in, and i'm sure the team will be happy for it's one hit mega contribution to the annoyance.
  22. bluemon

    bluemon

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,519
    if you want speed + super fang Mew and Crobat are better options with fast taunt and... better typing and stats.
  23. mathwiz 314

    mathwiz 314

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    good point. the move tutor distribution of super fang in gen 4 has basically diminished raticate's slight edge over it's competition. :(
  24. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Little Cup Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    3,618
    Why in the holy mother of Arceus was this bumped from three and a half months ago?
  25. Chieliee

    Chieliee

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,813
    why not? Raticate is awesome.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)