Rating Basics

Discussion in 'Rating Activities' started by Jimbon, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

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  2. Mr. Green

    Mr. Green

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  3. Dr Ciel

    Dr Ciel

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  4. Mosquiton

    Mosquiton Tette

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  5. Mr. Green

    Mr. Green

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  6. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
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    @ Leftiez: These rates are looking pretty good from what I can see, you're clearly identifying the threats to each team and suggesting appropriate ways to deal with them. The only real concern I have is that you seem to suggest the same threats to a lot of teams, and as a result you're often making quick fixes such as adding Rotom-W / Jirachi to deal with Tornadus, or adding one Pokemon to deal with something else. While that may patch up a certain weakness, you're effectively removing one team member every time you do this, and that Pokemon may have a certain role on the team that needs to be fulfilled. For example, this team you rated you removed his Magneton which means he has a hell of a lot more trouble with Ferrothorn and Steel types in general. Every change has a chain reaction so think about what you're thinking of replacing. I'd argue however it really wasn't that big of an issue given that he still has a Scarfer, but if you want to further help against Ferrothorn a good change would've been to change Mamoswine to Life Orb or giving Latias Hidden Power [Fire].

    Overall, your rates were very good. Try to stay away from the mentality of replacing one Pokemon to beat another, as every change you make may open up a weakness to something else. Changes aren't always necessary, and in some cases a simple moveset or EV spread tweak can make a team function much better than 2 or 3 Pokemon changes. Please keep rating, you're definitely improving -- good luck!

    @ Dr Ciel: I'm only going to comment on the most recent rates you've posted here, but I do seem to find that your quality does fluctuate with the quality of the team you're rating. This team rate and this team rate really aren't at the same level of quality as this rate which is kind of odd. I think you're falling into the mentality of making minor changes to pretty bad teams, which don't really make them function any better. For example, this rate doesn't really help his team all that much, given that he is still weak to Rain, he has no entry hazards or a Dragon resist. With teams like this you should just try to patch up the main issues, which are Rain + Dragons. I think his team really would've appreciated a Jirachi or Ferrothorn somewhere, probably over Chansey as it really does kill all the momentum he gains with Salamence / Darmanitan / Alakazam.

    Funnily enough, your rates seem to be much better when you're rating teams that are much more solid. This rate for example was pretty good, in the fact that you clearly identified what the weakness was and went about trying to fix that weakness. There was a small problem in this rate, in that Rotom-W isn't exactly the best answer to Keldeo. You state that Rotom-W isn't 2HKO'd by Life Orb Keldeo's Secret Sword, but the actual amount is 55.77% minimum, meaning Rotom-W cannot switch-in if Stealth Rock is up. If you wanted to make a change to help with Keldeo, then maybe something like Sub Calm Mind Latias could work, probably over Hydreigon. It retains similar synergy, and Hydreigon really was not doing anything for his team given the set he was running. Jirachi + Latias gives him an answer for Keldeo, Tornadus-T and Latias / Latios, all of which are big threats to his team.

    It is interesting to see some of your rates, and it's weird how your quality increases when rating a more difficult team. Honestly with teams that have a lot of flaws, you might be better off directing the user to Battling 101 if the team is really beyond help. Otherwise, I'd suggest you focus more on identifying specific threats and listing effective ways to deal with them, as that does seem to be your biggest problem. In some of your rates you're merely listing small EV spread changes that might be more optimal, but fundamentally you should try to patch up the weaknesses first. Good luck!

    @ Mr. Green: I'm only going to comment on your most recent rate, but in general I do seem to see that you're making valid suggestions backed up by a strong reasoning, which is great when the OP is deciding whose advice they want to take. The main thing I liked about your rate was that you really covered and explained everything. You mentioned that he really needed Stealth Rock, but your suggested set did not have Stealth Rock, which doesn't help him too much against offensive teams. Your defensive core change however was well justified and worked for his team --for this guys team in particular, the defensive combination of Skarmory and Amoonguss would work much better over Jellicent and Ferrothorn, as they essentially beat the same things.

    As for some of your more simple suggestions, I'd probably agree with those too. The Politoed EV spread works nicely too, but you could also mention that he can now outspeed Jellicent and Toxic it before it Taunts which is important because his team doesn't really have a whole lot for Jellicent. As for your suggestion about Refresh > Perish Song, this is something that I'd have to disagree on. The OP listed Calm Mind Reuniclus as one of his biggest threats, and removing Perish Song means he really has no way to force it out. Refresh doesn't seem that important when Chansey is carrying Heal Bell either. An easy change to help all of his problems would be to use Specially Defensive Celebi over Amoonguss / Ferrothorn, as it can run Perish Song to beat Reuniclus, run Stealth Rock to free up a lot on Skarmory to run Spikes and beats Keldeo too -- this is just another alternative, stall is based on fitting everything onto one team and you should have that mindset when rating a stall team.

    Alternatively, another way to go about this change would be to change Ditto, which is something you could've commented on. Ditto on stall is a complete liability given that it really is only as good as the Pokemon it transforms into, which leaves it as deadweight when facing opposing Stall. Removing Ditto opens up another spot to put a different Pokemon in that would fix his problems. A Calm Mind Roar Latias could work here giving him a better check for Tornadus-T, while still beating Reuniclus and is also good for phasing which is important given his team carries a lot of hazards. Even something that poses an offensive presence could work, CB Scizor helps with Reuniclus + Abomasnow, Scarf Terrakion helps vs Dragons, Sun and Abomasnow, etc. These are all things to consider, and it shows you that there is no such thing as a bad rate, as long as you can back your suggestions up.

    Overall though, it was a really really good rate, and this seems to show in some of your other rates too. You are good at identifying and efficiently fixing threats without changing the team too much and I think you'd do well to continue rating like this. Good luck!

    --

    Also guys, if you want help with your rates I'd advise listing maybe 1-2 rates at most at a time, probably the ones you feel you did a good job on / need help with. Posting 8 rates at a time just makes it harder to give good advice as it's a lot more time consuming, whereas with 1-2 rates Team Raters can give you guys a lot more in-depth feedback on your rates and areas which you can improve on, and what you're already doing well!
  7. Mr. Green

    Mr. Green

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    Thank you, Jimbon^^
  8. Uomo Solo

    Uomo Solo

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  9. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

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    Thank you Jimbon I understood: D
  10. Mosquiton

    Mosquiton Tette

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  11. Frochtejohgurt

    Frochtejohgurt

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  12. Mosquiton

    Mosquiton Tette

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  13. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude lol
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    Hey Mosquiton nice rate!

    You did a good job noticing the teams weakness to Magnezone, Lucario and Toxicroak and you explained them how they were threats quite well. The Landorus-T suggestion was a good one to help deal with the three, however I don't know if losing Rotom-W is the best idea because it makes him quite weak to Tornadus-T. However Tornadus-T is hopefully going to ubers so I am going to let that slip. with Landorus-T the team is a little more offensive, which is a nice addition to the team. Losing Rotom-W for Landorus-T as I mentioned earlier makes the team weaker to Tornadus-T but also Thunderous-T. Rotom-W is probably the only Pokemon on the team atm that can help him at least a little bit against Thunderous-T and changing it for Landorus-T who is vunerable to Hidden Power [Ice] will open up a few more problems. So after suggesting a change to a team take a step back and try to find if your suggestion openend the team up to any new threats. This is super important because that is probably one of the biggest issues I see when people make rates. Also when you finish a rate try scanning over the team a few times and try and look to see if there are any smaller changes that need to be addressed. Item changed, moveset changes, etc. Like Ferrothorn for instance. You said Magnezone is a threat so running a Shed Shell on it is not a bad idea seeing as it already has Leech Seed for recovery and doesn't run Spikes meaning it won't get worn down as much by the opponent anyway. Also another thing about rating which is probably even more important than helping the team against threats is making sure the team has the "essentials." Does the team have a rapid spinner? Does it have Stealth Rock? Does it have a revenge killer? You have to make sure a team works by having these things otherwise it doesn't matter if you help a team deal with its threats it will still be bad. This team after all lacks a Choice Scarf user entirely so that should of been addressed.

    Edit: I will help you with your second rate soon

    Edit 2: Shurtugal got it good job shurt! :P

    Edit 3: Nice job for a first rate Frochtejohgurt :P

    Ok so your Tentacruel suggestion was great seeing as the team needs to be able to beat spin blockers because of Chandelure and Dragonite and you also did a good job in telling the op why he didn't really need Toxic Spikes (his team was to offensive to abuse it). Now for a lot of your other changes you mentioned a move change like putting Leech Seed on Ferrothorn and Draco Meteor on Latios. However you didn't mention where to put them, which is quite important just doing something like Draco Meteor>Thunderbolt or Leech Seed>Spikes works. You can also bold it to if you want or add colour, but avoid hard to read colours like yellow and light green! Also doing this would of made your Chandelure suggestions easier to read (Substitute>Sunny Day, Energy Ball>Solar Beam). Also you didn't try to help the team cover up threats and you said "you see no glaring weakness." I highly advise you use this in your rates http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3464038 to help you identify threats to a team easier.

    Summary
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    Mosquiton
    .You did a good job of identifying threats to a team and solving them

    .when you suggest something remember to take a step back and review your suggestion to make sure it doesn't make the team more weak to different threats.

    .scan the team when you are done to see if there are any minor changes to be implemented

    .Look to make sure the team has the essential things (spinner, stealth rocks, revenge killer, etc)

    Frochtejohgurt
    .when rating try and use the threatlist to identify threats to a team and try to fix those weaknesses.

    .feel free to make your changes more clear with doing stuff like Superpower>Close Combat
  14. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal Intelligence is a curse.
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    No problem Superpowerdude, I think I'll take his second rate ^^

    OK so this rate is very solid man! You forget to mention that he's a bit Drizzle weak (with TornT and all), but Heatran patches this up. Remember to add every plus your suggestions give so you sound like you know what you're talking about and it makes your argument stronger!

    I think you could have suggested Earthquake over Surf on Latios so that he could hit Banded Tyranitar hard (which is a huge threat), and the EB damage also help wear down Jirachi (which is still a solid threat alongside Fire Punch to a majority of his team). Might want to mention how 4 HP evs on Dragonite is very counterproductive and make it take even more SR damage than it already is. Maybe suggest he move it into Def / SDef for the sake of SR damage.

    This team is also fairly weak to a lot of rain threats / RP Landy-I. Perhaps Life Orb Latias would be a better choice (without EQ, respectively) so that rain Keldeo / RP Landorus-I / Specs Politoed (FB > Ferro) are less problematic.

    Ultimately, if he plays right, Banded Tyranitar can be handled, but nothing can switch into it and that's my biggest concern, which is why you would go with either Latias or Latios. I really like your rates man, keep them up! :)

    GL on getting the Rater Badge ~!

    Shurtugal ;]
  15. Mosquiton

    Mosquiton Tette

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    Thank you guys, your advices will be very useful for me ^^
  16. Mr. Green

    Mr. Green

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  17. Hypercut

    Hypercut

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  18. Mr. Green

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  19. Alexander.

    Alexander.
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    @ Frochtejohgurt: Nice rate you got here anyway you didn't write something. First of all, the team you have rated lacks a revenge-killer. I think one revenge-killer is essential for any team to face with theats at +1 better and to have a fast pokèmon. In that team I'd use Choice Scarf Latios as revenge-killer. Finally, you have forgot to say that Thunderbolt on Latios is quite a useless move it doesn't hit nothing that Latios can't hit with Draco Meteor, Hidden Power Fire and Surf. Therefore, Psyshock is better than Thunderbolt on Latios because it's a nice coverage move and it hits stuff like Chansey, Blissey and Amoonguss harder than other moves.

    Good luck with rating!
  20. Dr Ciel

    Dr Ciel

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    Rated 2 more.

    #1

    #2
  21. Uomo Solo

    Uomo Solo

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  22. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    im sorry but this is really bad advice - eq is shit on latios when you do more damage with expert belt surf barring spdef ttar (which band ttar isn't). furthermore, chandelure (or heatran if he switches to that) already checks jirachi - he doesn't need latios to beat jirachi.
  23. Silvershadow234

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  24. col49

    col49 you know I used to try
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    Hi, I've been [trying] to rate more, and while I know that RU raters are few and far-between, any advice on approach and such would be awesome :)

    ThreadRate

    ThreadRate

    The second one is old-ish, but I think it's still worth mentioning. As for the second one, I was debating whether or not I made too many larger changes, but I felt them to be better for the team as whole, so idk :/ I'll see what I can do to rate more, but RU RMT's aren't exactly plentiful :x

    edit: one more, little iffy on it but I felt I should bring it up for sake of variety '~'

    ThreadRate
  25. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal Intelligence is a curse.
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    @Sbbm:

    Sorry your right. I overrestimate banded ttar's special bulk sometimes. Thanks for pointing that out!

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