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Rating Basics

Discussion in 'Rating Activities' started by Jimbon, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    Oh what the hell, lets give this a shot. For this team, I provided the following rate.

    My "personal rate style" so to speak, so not looking for any suggestions stylistically. I'm more looking to improve the quality of the changes themselves, and anything I might have failed to identify. Thoughts?
  2. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
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  3. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    IMO, length is fine, although I would suggest putting your sets into hide tags to make your rate look more visually appealing. The command is [ HIDE]the set[ /HIDE] (remove the spaces). Now, the changes you've made to the team are fine, but the first thing I noticed is that you've failed to pick up on this:
    Show Hide

    Starmie
    @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP, Timid Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    Moveset:
    - Rapid Spin
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder
    - Surf

    Thunder has 50% accuracy in the sun, which is just... sad...

    There are a couple other threats you've failed to identify, but over time, you should be able to pick up on those, so I wont bother listing them out. As for the rate itself though, you may want to mention a few side effects of your changes, and why you should make the changes in spite of these side effects. For example, when you suggest Heatran over Vaporeon, you take away his Wish support. Just throw in a little blurb saying, "Heatran brings so much to the table, in the form of a Fire immunity, Dragon resist, Stealth Rock user, blahblahblah that the loss of Wish is worth it."
  4. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
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    Aight, good to know my rate wasn't awful. I kind of just assumed that Thunder was Thunderbolt. In the future I'll do my best to pick up on those things. Anything other criticism is more than welcome.
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I'm kind of iffy on the rates I've just given out to Tomahawk9 and Joeyboy's RMT. Their team affords little room for change to deal with their problems (at least that's what I thought).

    Tomahawk9's RMT
    Joeyboy's RMT

    Any impression towards either one of my rates is appreciated!
  6. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    Yeah, those teams are well thought out and already have most threats covered. Especially Tomahawk's team, it took me a good 5 minutes or so to find the problems with that team. With teams like that, less is more. EV changes, item changes, move changes etc are just as valuable as team member changes. I think you did a pretty good job with the rate on Joeyboy's team, although you may want to mention that your Celebi set doesn't check Volt-turn nearly as well as Breloom. Remember, pros and cons to every change ;)
  7. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Thanks for the input, TR NWO ;p. I haven't used his team, so it's not easy to gauge how Tomahawk deals with Terrakion, but my impression was that nothing can really switch into a Stone-Edge. I suggested switching out Scizor for Conkeldurr for Metagross, so at least Scarf Terrakion wont be spamming Stone Edge, but I guess that was too much of a change?

    I actually did list the cons of replacing Breloom with Celebi.
  8. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    lol, sorry, I can't read :(
  9. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I tried both, but I like the latter, since it's more compact. However, when I want the person to take special note of the moves, I do a hybrid of the two:

    Pokemon @ Item | Trait
    Nature | 252 / 4 / 252
    - Move
    - Move
    - Move
    - Move


    Either case, I usually hide tags these information and set explanation to make the rate more organized.

    EDIT: I actually haven't thought of it like that! Yea, definitely go with the standard export format for the newer folks posting teams :d
  10. New World Order

    New World Order Licks Toads
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    This I believe is the standard format, as it follows the same format as the PO exports. However, it's sometimes easier for a TR to use a more compact format themselves, and there really is no standard for that.
  11. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
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    I rated teams back when I first joined Smogon, but looking back I realize they were pretty crappy. Now that I have a bit more knowledge of the metagame, I've decided to get back into team rating. I'd love some advise on one of my recent rates :)

    tavok's Sun Team

    My Rate (open)

    Hey, cool sun team. First off, I know they're most likely typos, but you have several natures listed as Hardy so I would change them to the appropriate ones. The first threat to your team that jumped out at me was Swords Dance Lucario. Once it gets to +2 it will do some serious damage to your team, as your only normal resist is weak to Close Combat and Extremespeed > Hitmontops Mach Punch. A bulkier Hitmontop set with intimidate could fix this up, however I'm going to suggest a Choice Scarf Terrakion > Latios over Latios since I don't really like Latios as your revenge killer. Latios, (especially with a Scarf) is basically a free switch-in for one of a sun team's main concerns, Tyranitar. Terrakion on the other hand, keeps Tyranitar away meaning you can keep your sun up longer while also revenge killing almost all the same threats as Latios did. Scarf Terrakion also gives you a great pivot switch if Tyranitar wants to switch into Heatran or Ninetales.

    With Terrakion around, I think Hitmontop can be replaced. Personally I don't think your team needs Rapid Spin support. Your team does a very good job at keepong the pressure on common hazard users such as Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, not to mention your only Stealth Rock weak Pokemon is Ninetales. I suggest a Physically Deffensive Cresselia > Hitmontop. This change does a lot of things for your team and sun teams in general. She provides you with a study mixed wall thanks to a sun boosted Moonlight, while providing you with a secondary check to Landorus, Terrakion, Dragonite etc. You lose your backup sun, however with Cress you gain reflect support which is better in a lot of situations, specifically with your specially def based Pokemon like Heatran. If you decide to roll with this change then I would use Sunny Day > Sub on Ninetales due to the lack of spinner. You can check out Ninetales Sunny Day set for the full explantion.

    Finally, I don't think Mixed Venusaur is really nessasary here. Sure beating Heatran is nice, but with Earthpower on your own Heatran, HP Fighting on Ninetales and possibly Scarf Terrakion, I don't think losing all that power is worth it. I would just go with the standard Special Growth Venusaur for more power. This also means you can run Leftovers on Venusaur, which is great since it's your only reliable Rotom-W switch in.

    hide="set(s)"
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Jolly nature
    Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Earthquake

    Cresselia @ Leftovers
    Bold nature
    EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 Spe
    Levitate
    - Psychic
    - Ice Beam
    - Moonlight
    - Reflect |

    hide
    gl with your team :)


    I still need to work on my grammar :/

    Oh and regarding set format, sometimes I like to format my suggested sets the same as the how the OP formatted theirs so it's easier for them to put it into their RMT should they decide to use it.
  12. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast It hasn't been as nice at night these last few days
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    I recently posted this rate that I'm not 100% sure about. I tried to change his Pokemon as little as possible... Is there anything I should be doing better?
  13. Delko

    Delko
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    Decent rate Arcticblast, but you remain a bit shallow. You only suggest small moveset changes rather then providing a solution for threats to this team. Don't get me wrong your suggestions are good (Swift Swim Kabutops in conjunction with Drizzle Politoed is banned anyway) but they don't change the fact that the team is still pretty weak to Volcarona, strong physical attackers such as Terrakion and Lucario, VoltTurn, Stall teams etc.
  14. Sayonara

    Sayonara don't forget

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    Here's a rate I did on this team.

    Can I have feedback in order to improve my rates! Thank you very much!
  15. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¬°YA HA!
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    K well since no official TR's are commenting, guess I will hehe.

    It's nice effort Expert Physics, especially since you let him retain his sandstorm team and such even when replacing Tyranitar. However, I would try not to overstate Hippowdon's bulk in how it can wall CB Terrakion. Adamant CB Terrakion scores a clean 2HKO against Hippowdon (SR cancels out Leftovers) and Jolly CB Terrakion does 88% minimum after two hits. meaning that if Hippowdon isn't at full HP or very close to it, it won't be a very effective check. Keep that in mind, and do damage calcs if you aren't sure how much an attack will do. I also fail to see how a Hippowdon can handle Volt-Turn. Scizor can just U-Turn out and Hippowdon will get blasted by Rotom-W's Hydro Pump. Regardless, he has a Celebi with Hidden Power Fire, so Volt-Turn is essentially already covered since he already had Forretress to take U-Turn.

    @harsha, as I stated earlier, Celebi has Hidden Power Fire so Latias wouldn't really help the cause since it essentially does the same thing.

    Either way, everyone gets better with practice and it's a solid start!
  16. ToF

    ToF
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    Yes I agree with the above comments. You cited voltturn as a weakness yet Celebi breaks that strategy single-handedly. You suggested adding more Pursuit weak Pokemon in Latias, which doesn't help the overall synergy of the team.

    One thing I don't like is you said Scarf Landorus is a problem assuming x, y, and z are dead. Of course that's the case lol, if your counter to something is dead naturally you're gonna have a problem with it. Avoid using things like that in your rates.

    I think you just need to kinda sort out your advice first. I like the format, I think you elaborated on suggestions just fine, but the actual suggestions could use some fine-tuning.
  17. dice

    dice infinite bliss flows but does not ebb
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    One of my first rates, an one of my first posts ;o

    Here's the team

  18. SkullCandy

    SkullCandy She Bangs The Drums
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  19. San_Pellegrino

    San_Pellegrino the eternal dreamer
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    Hey Skull Candy,

    Glad to see the rating enthusiasm! I think that a problem that you have is that you haven't been taking time to identify pokemon functions within the individual team microcosm. On the sun team, there are some glaring weaknesses to mons like Heatran and opposing weathers. While I agree with changing Voltorb (which you identified as a revenge killer, when it is really more of a support/annoyer) on that team, adding a Heatran of his own might be a better solution, offensive or defensive. Adding Donphan on the Gazelle + Dragon team over Heatran also might not have been the first thing I did, but it was really good that you identified the right problem of not having a spinner in what seemed a heavy offensive team. (I personally would have done what bubbly suggested - Starmie and Scizor, who posted after you)

    Work for elaborating on the basis strategy of: Identify a problem - Articulate it to the Team builder, proving why it is a problem - Suggesting a solution, as well as its pros and cons.

    Keep on working at it!
  20. The Silent Storm

    The Silent Storm

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  21. MavsObbession

    MavsObbession

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  22. peng

    peng

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    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4189873#post4189873
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4197694#post4197694
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4206659#post4206659

    So I'm trying to get into rating and these are some of my recent rates that I'm looking on some feedback for. I think the actual suggestions I'm making are all solid but I make things way more tl;dr than they often need to be, which is something I need to work on I guess. I just really want to cover everything I want to say and sometimes I go a little over the top. I imagine some of the other team raters have had this problem in the past and just want to know if I should work on being more concise?

    I should probably use colours and bold text and other stuff I guess because it would probably make it easier for the team builder to highlight what I'm actually suggesting in my essays.
  23. LUST

    LUST
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    The Silent Storm:

    Decent rates, you identified the threats and provided minimum changes which is always something we are looking for. My main concern is your format and descriptions, at the moment both of them are poor and need improvement. You should type complete and proper sentences in order to make it understandable for others. Try to be as descriptive regarding your recommendations as possible. If you are unsure about the format I suggest checking this out, it'll give you the essential information regarding how to deliver a well-throughout rate.

    I also noticed your rating isn't very consistent, if you are looking forward to becoming an official Team Rater, please rate often !

    MavsObbession:

    I really like your rates, they are all well thought and executed nicely. You have the potential to be an effective all-round Team Rater but it'll require a lot of work and patience. To step your quality to a whole another level, I recommend reading this thread carefully, it'll provide you with the necessary tips on how to rate and structure your rates even better, for example after reading it you would know how many maximum Pokemon you can replace and how to organize your rates to be more visually appealing and of great quality. Lastly please make yourself familiar with the tiers before rating.

    Keep up the good work !

    PenguinX:

    Your rates are incredible in terms of both high quality and quantity wise. I would say your main priority should be to fix all the important things like the top-threats and sets for a team, don't worry too much about emphasizing on every single Pokemon. Yes, by using both colors and bold text you basically summarize your rates and make it efficient for others to read. On another side note, you can possibly try merging your paragraphs into two or three important ones where the first or second ones would contain necessary changes and the last one would be reserved for minor changes.

    Try to be consistent while rating and keep doing what you do best !
  24. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    MavsObbession, you obviously know your VGC meta - you have provided some very thoughtful rate for that Goodstuffs team, supplementing some calcs to back your Grass Knot suggestion. The amount of detail is sufficient and spot-on, as well.

    The second rate could use some improvement, though. You noted the big weakness to Rain, but then in your example you cited Ludicolo, which is hardly seen in OU ladder due to Aldaron's Proposal (it's not the same as VGC :d). When you explained Golurk's mediocrity, you mentioned Grass Knot, but that is also not a common move in OU, since most opt for Giga Drain for recovery and to hurt Rotom-W / Politoed. When you were comparing Scizor to Escavalier, I would have pointed out Scizor's access to Superpower, U-turn, and technician Bullet Punch before Bug Bite and its ability to knock out Ludicolo. You are obviously in VGC mode here -_-;;

    Although I may also be guilty for doing this - try to avoid making generalizations. When you recommended Ferrothorn, you followed saying that "it's a best staller in OU," which is not relevant to this particular team (unless this team is a sand stall team). You should cut to the chase and explain how Ferrothorn offers reliable protection against Rain offense. When explaining Ferrothorn's set, you emphasized his stalling capabilities more than his ability to tank Rain Offense, thanks to its amazing special defense and resistance to Water + Electric offense (although such explanation is less necessary when rating more experienced players). You could have mentioned Leech Seed + Protect in context of dealing with Rain threats (ie. with "Leech Seed + Protect," it can tank powerful Rain hits for the team longer).

    Your recommendation for Hippowdon is sort of vague, too. I don't know if I would be convinced in using Hippowdon just because it offer physical bulk and an additional sandstreamer. There's no urgency to make this change, because you have neglected to identify the physical threats that plagues this team and did not relate it back to your Hippowdon's suggestion. He may also not see the need for 2 sandstorm mons. I personally don't see the need for a second sandstreamer, since this team does not really utilize mons dependent on the weather, such as SubAcrobatics Gliscor or Sand Force Landorus. Hippowdon also isn't the best answer to SD Scizor, which can plow through this team. Jellicent or Skarmory may have been a better suggestions.

    I think a little bit more meta knowledge is necessary for rating OU teams. This way you can better pinpoint threats and offer a more practical solution. Admittedly, the team you chose to rate was horrible, so props for trying to rate such a demanding team!
  25. MavsObbession

    MavsObbession

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    @mostwanted

    Thank you for sending me the link to that thread! This will help me greatly, and I understand it's going to take a lot of work and patience. Thanks though!

    @Pocket

    Yeah, I sometimes play OU, maybe I'll go into that tier a little more so I can be effective in rating OU Teams. Thanks for the tips!

    Thank you everyone! XD

    Ok, I did another rate on the same Goodstuffs VGC Team from yesterday; here's the link! (the other rate is on the 2nd page, by the way.)


    VGC Goodstuffs 2nd Rate


    Thanks!

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