RBY Differences

Vineon

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(RBY is fucked up, nothing works the freaking same in that version and I felt it needed something explaining ALL the changes.. and theres a fucking load of them... There was a thread about this in the old rby forums but it was imo far from complete. Actually theres so much shit Im pretty sure mine isnt complete either :[. I used that thread as a base though. I'd like people to try to find out what I missed.) ::

(edit : somehow I missed the RBY moves thread (I'm sorry ;_; ).. however I feel my thing is more complete and actual covers the differences there is between rby from the rest).

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Pokemon versions Red/Blue/Yellow stands out for being one of the glitchiest video games ever made. But in my opinion, it also makes it’s charm. Many things work differently in rby than they do in the later generations, where most of the glitches were fixed..

This is a (long) list of everything that works differently in rby.

IMPORTANT DIFFERENCES

Special Stat
Rather than being divided in Special Attack & Special Defense, there is only one Special Stat in rby. It covers both Special Attack AND Special Defense. Every move that raises or drops the Special Stat (Amnesia, Psychic, etc) will therefore affect the pokemon’s ability to both use special attack and take special hits. In gsc, every Pokemon got their Special split, they all however kept that value for one of either Special Attack or Special Defense. While they managed to tone down several Pokemons that were too good (ex: Alakazam) and make some others better (ex: Hitmonlee), they also weakened some that werent especially strong (ex: Tangela) and made some that were already strong ever better (ex: Snorlax)...

Critical Hits
In Rby, the Critical Hit Ratio is based on Base Speed, rather than having a set Ratio. Which means that, yes, faster pokemons will Critical Hit more than slower ones. This is very important to consider in rby as most of the faster pokemons will have a Critical Hit ratio higher than 20%. The Ratio, being based on BASE speed, will not change if the Pokemon is paralysed or suffers a speed drop.
Formula to calculate a Pokemon’s CH ratio : CH%=BaseSpeed*100/512.

In Addition, when moves Critical Hit, they will ignore any stat defense/special stat change you and your opponent might have. For example, if you used Amnesia 3 times to boost your maximize your Special stat and then score a Critical Hit, you will actually do less damage than you would have if you didn’t, only doing twice as much as you would normally do without boosts. Critical Hits will also ignore Reflect and Light Screen.

High Critical Hit Moves
Razor Leaf, Slash, Crabhammer, Karate Chop. Like normal Critical Hits, they are also based on Base Speed and the formula used for those mean they nearly always Critical Hit.
The CH ratio formula for High Critical Moves in RBY is : CH%=BaseSpeed*100/64

Freezes
There is only two ways to thaw, and that is by getting hit by a Fire type attack or if your opponent uses Haze while your frozen Pokemon is into play. The frozen Pokemon will never thaw by itself.

One-Hit-KO Attacks
Based on Speed, but NOT on Base Speed. The ohko attack will ALWAYS fail if you are slower than your opponent. It may only succeed if you are faster or have the same speed.

Trapping Moves
Wrap, Fire Spin, Clamp & Bind. Instead of preventing switching, prevent your opponent from attacking after it hits during the whole 2-5 turns the attack may last. So if you are faster than your opponent, you can keep using wrap over and over again while they cannot hit you back. Only the first hit of the 2-5 attack sequence wastes a PP and is subject to miss due to accuracy. The wrapping Pokemon isnt allowed to use any other attack until the 2-5 turns sequence ends. In addition, Critical Hit is only also calculated for the first hit, if it does score a Critical Hit, every remaining sequence hit will be a Critical Hit as well. Using a wrapping move can also be used to get a free switch : For example Cloyster uses Clamp on an incoming Starmie, Cloyster can switch out freely the turn after while Starmie will stay immobilised for that turn (but will still be released from the wrap). If a wrapped Pokemon however switches out while in the middle of a wrap sequence. The sequence resets and the accuracy must be tested again on the switch and another PP is wasted.

Another interresting note, this time concerning only Wrap and Bind, as they are normal moves is that if used against Gengar, it will deal no damage but will STILL immobilised it.

Type Effectiveness Differences
Theres a few differences when it comes to types’s effectiveness against other types in RBY. Here’s the list :
• Ice is neutral to Fire instead of Not Very Effective.
• Poison is Super Effective against Bug instead of Neutral.
• Bug is Super Effective against Poison instead of Not Very Effective.
• Ghost will NOT work on Psychic instead of being Super Effective regardless of what any RBY type chart tells you. (this really only affects Lick anyway)

Stat Changing Moves
OK, there are two types of stat changing moves basically, the normal ones that raise your stat by one or two levels, up to 6 like Agility. And the others like Paralysis or Burn. Now if a pokemon gets it's stat lowered by status, and then it increases that stat with a normal stat raising move its stat will be the same as if it had never been statused at all. Also, stat reductions due to stat ailments will be reapplied if an appropriate stat lowerer is used against the pokemon.
Practical applications of this:
You paralyse my Fire Spin Rapidash, well, instead of making my Rapidash completely useless, all I have to do is use Agility and I will again be fast enough to annoy the hell out of you with Fire Spin or maybe even Horn Drill..

Sleeping
When put to sleep you will never wake up and attack on the same turn. You will take a turn to wake up and you will then be allowed to attack again the turn after that. This doesn’t mean you will sleep an extra turn in RBY however when you use Rest. This can be pretty annoying because it freely allows a faster Pokemon to put you back to sleep without fearing of being hit while the Pokemon wakes up.

99.6% Accuracy
There is no 100% accurate move in RBY, in fact there is always an off 1/256 chance that any attack misses (0.4%). This also means that a move generally mentionned as being 70% accurate is in fact 69.6% accurate. The only exception is Swift, which still cannot possibly miss.

IMPORTANT MOVE DIFFERENCES

Hyper Beam
You do NOT need to take a turn to recharge if you KO a Pokemon using Hyper Beam. If you do not KO, you will need a turn to recharge as usual. You also do not need to recharge if you break a substitute. Also still will not recharge if it misses.

Substitute
A Substitute will NOT block Status Inducing moves, exept Poison.. It will not block Thunder Wave or Sleep Powder for example but will still block Toxic. It also blocks confusion moves such as Confuse Ray, and stat reducer moves such as Screech. Substitute will also NOT block attacks's secondary effects (ex: Body Slam can paralyse if it hits a Substitute), exept when the secondary effect is poison, which it will STILL block..

Secondly, and this is where it gets interesting – if you use selfdestruct, hyper beam or explosion on a substitute, and the sub breaks, then the consequence of your attack does not happen. For example : My Snorlax uses Selfdestruct on your Exeggutor’s Substitute and your Substitute breaks ; my Snorlax will miraculously survive the explosion no worse for wear than it was before. So basically don’t use Substitute when you predict explosion, it won’t help.
In addition, if you use Substitute when your remaining HPs are exactly 1/4 of your total, it will cause your Pokemon to faint..

Counter
This attack is able to counter damage taken as the result of a normal-type or fighting-type attack (it will fail against other physical type attacks), including Counter and Bide damage, Seismic Toss damage, and recoil damage. (Only the last amount of damage done for attacks which cause multiple instances of damage while using only one PP, however.) The amount of damage countered is not influenced by type, and will hit ghost-types.

Importantly, Counter can be used to counter back damage done on previous turns, not just on the same turn that it is used, as long as my opponent's pokemon doesnt use any move (This includes turns during which an opponent is switched out, is asleep or wakes up, is frozen or defrosted, is fully paralyzed, or uses the non-damaging turn of a multi-hit move such as recharging, gathering sunlight, or glowing.). For example : my Alakazam uses Seismic Toss on my opponent's Chansey as it switches in, I then switch to my Tauros, if my opponent uses counter my Tauros will take 200 damage. This can be very annoying indeed..

Also, this attack can work when the damage is done to the substitute (even when the user has a substitute), to counter back the amount of damage that would have been done to the user, allowing Counter to counter back damage that is more than double the user's HP, for instance in the case of Explosion and Selfdestruct.

Rest
While using Rest removes Status effects like Paralysis and Burn, it does not allow you to regain the stat loss you suffered from any of them until you switch out.

Reflect & Light Screen
Both moves are permanent until you switch out. They do not only last 2-5 turns and they are cancelled if you switch. A Critical Hit will also ignore them and Haze cancels them.

Roar & Whirlwind
Both moves have no use whatsoever in link play. Unlike in the later versions, they do not force switches. They just have no effect.

Dig & Fly
Well first of all, Dig's Base Power is 100 in RBY, instead of 60. While undergroud after using Dig you cannot be hit by Earthquake, and you cannot be hit by Thunder or Gust while you fly either.
Now the interresting part is if you get fully paralysed or hit yourself in confusion while underground/in the air, not only will you stay there for that turn and until you are not fully paralysed/confused to finally deal damage, but you will also keep the invulnerability until you switch out your Pokemon or use Dig/Fly again! You will be able to use any other attack your Pokemon may have and remain invulnerable to any attack (exept Swift) as if you were still underground/in the air.

OTHER MOVE DIFFERENCES

Bite
Normal Type attack in RBY. Flinch Rate is 10% instead of 30%.

Blizzard
90% Accuracy instead of 70%, making it a formidable move.

Disable
Rather than disabling the last move your opponent used, it will disable randomly one of his 4 moves.

Dizzy Punch
Does not confuse.

Double-Edge
Base Power = 100 in RBY instead of 120. And the recoil is ¼ of the damage dealt instead of 1/3.

Explosion
Base Power 170 instead of 250. Still halves your opponent’s defense when it hits.

Fire Blast
Will burn 30% of the time instead of 10%.

Focus Energy
Not only will it NOT make your Critical Hit Ratio higher, it will quarter it. Do not use.

Glare
Can paralyse ghosts while it cannot in the later versions.

Gust
Normal Type instead of Flying Type. Also does not hit Pokemons using Fly

Haze
Other than clearing all Pokemon Stat changes from the 2 Pokemons, including Reflect and Light Screen, it will also remove any status change from the OPPONENT, such Paralysis, Sleep, Leech Seed, Confusion, etc.

Hi Jump Kick & Jump Kick
If it misses, rather than having a recoil damage of 1/8 of what it would have dealt, it only makes you lose 1 HP.

Karate Chop
Normal Type instead of Fighting Type. Also uses the High CH formula mentioned earlier.

Leech Seed
Absorbs 1/16th of your opponent’s HPs every turn instead of 1/8. Can be used in combination with Toxic, which is explained later.

Low Kick
Damage does not change depending on your opponent’s weight… it's base power is always 50. It is also 90% accurate instead of 100%.

Mimic
Rather than mimicking the last move your opponent used, it will mimic randomly one of his 4 moves. There is no restriction to this, it will learn any of your opponent's 4 moves, even possibly a move you already have as well.

Night Shade & Seismic Toss
Will hit any Pokemon regardless of Type. (Night Shade hits Normal types, Seismic Toss hits Gengar)

Poison Sting
Poisons 20% of the time, instead of 30%.

Psychic
30% side effect Special Drop instead of 10%.

Rage
Possibly the stupidest move ever made. Damage from Rage will increase (1 level) as it does in ruby/sapphire as normal as the raging Pokemon takes hits. However, as soon as Rage hits, the raging Pokemon will stop obeying…. It will not be able to use any other attack, it will not able to switch out, and it will also not lose any PP after the initial Rage hit. Also, weirdly, if it ever misses due to anything other than type immunity its accuracy is now 0.4%

Razor Wind
75% accurate, instead of 100%.

Rock Slide
Does not flinch.

Selfdestruct
Base Power 130 instead of 200. Still halve your opponent’s defense when it hits.

Skull Bash
Does not raise your defense.

Stomp
Does not do double damage on Pokemon that have used Minimize.

Struggle
Normal Type, instead of typeless, in the later versions. Recoil is also 50%.

Swift
Swift is the only move that can hit Pokemons underground/in the air, after they used Dig or Fly.

Thunder
Paralyses 10% of the time, instead of 30%.

Toxic
Unlike in R/S (and like in GSC), Toxic will revert to regular poison status once you switch out. Can be used in combination with Leech Seed, which is explained later.

Tri Attack
Has no side effect (does not burn/paralyse/freeze).]

Wing Attack
Base Power of 35 instead of 60.


OTHER DIFFERENCES

Recovering Moves Failing
When a Pokemon’s HPs are 255 or 511 below it’s max HP, recovery moves like Rest, Recover & Softboiled will fail…… For instance, if Chansey is at 192 HP, which is 703 - 511, Softboiled fails.

Magneton (& Magnemite)
Absence of Steel type in RBY makes Magneton an Electric Type only Pokemon.

Multi-Hitting Moves
It only calculates for Critical Hits once.. which means that if it Critical Hits, every hit will. (moves like Pin Missile & Doubleslap)

Toxic-Leech Seed
Very roughly, using both in combination will make Leech Seed absorb more and more damage as Toxic’s damage also increase.

(For a more detailed information, consider the regularly increased variable N, which removes N/16 of the Pokemon's HP, is used for both of these. With Leech Seed it normally isn't increased each turn, but with Toxic in effect as well, the counter is increased twice each turn, once after each of those recurrent effects. For instance, 1/16 from Toxic and 2/16 for Leech Seed, 3/16 from Toxic then 4/16 from Leech Seed, etc. By the fifth turn of that effect, it'll 1HKO the Pokemon. However, both are reset to 1/16 and don't increase the first time you switch out, just like Toxic by itself.)

0 damage
For all it's worth.. 0 damage will actually in fact result in the attack missing.
 
RBY glitches are great...

Vineon said:
(edit : somehow I missed the RBY moves thread (I'm sorry ;_; ).. however I feel my thing is more complete and actual covers the differences there is between rby from the rest).
Yeah, this is definitely awesome, Hip's guide was as you said pretty much brief unorganized description followed by elaborating discussion.

This is really, really good... pretty complete.

For special, maybe consider saying that either special was picked to be either special attack or special defense for the later generations, with a new stat value being created for the other.

I don't know, I guess it probably wouldn't be necessary to say that poison/burn/seed turn-by-turn effects take place mid-partial trapping move. Both NetBattle and the RBYbot are glitched so it doesn't (Toxic does not prevent something like Cloyster from sweeping, nor does it help Cloyster when used against an enemy Chansey). You could probably mention that when you switch while trapped, if the partial trapping move user stays in, they will automatically use a new instance of the partial trapping move on the switch, and another PP is taken from that move. And that you can't stop using these moves mid-use, you have to wait until they finish before you can choose to pick a different move or not. Oh, and even more, you could add that these moves work like multi-turn moves with CH.

I was pretty sure it was 1/256 but I can't find any reliable sources... by the way, will e-mail you about that, Kamex.

With Counter, you could possibly change around the wording to specify how it just counters back normal-type and fighting-type damage, so it can counter Counter damage and recoil damage. Also, you could give fuller examples of things that don't reset the counterable damage, like I did in the other topic in the old forum (the one by Will of the Wisp).
And you could mention how counter behaves with Substitute, see Kamex's guide for a full description if you want but basically with a sub up Counter will counter the amount of damage it would have done.

With Selfdestruct/Explosion, actually, it does work with 130/170 damage and halving defense like in RS...

Oh, you could mention that it will return to normal the next time you use Dig/Fly again.

Yeah, FE will quarter your CH rate, to be more accurate, as discussed in the other topic.

You could specify that it will even copy a move you already have, with Mimic, since people always seem to ask about that (unless that's the same in RS?).

For some reason Azure Heights calculated Sludge's chance of poison as 36%... http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/attacks/s/sludge.htm . Dunno if you want to include that.

Yeah, Vineon, in my brief description I made like this, I mainly discussed strategic relevance of these things, like "There's no Sleep Talk or Snore in RBY" and "the only dragon-type technique is Dragon Rage, the only damage ghost-type one is Lick" and describing how with no phazers or any other special moves DT/Minimize rock and also how everything is stacked in favor of Psychic, but you probably don't want to get into all that (except maybe as an observational summary/conclusion).

I love these new forums.
 
Karate chop is a Normal move instead of Fighting, keeping it from being useful.

Hyper Beam doesn't recharge if it hits Gengar.

Substitute blocks secondary effects of attacks, except on NB where Body Slam can still paralyze through substitute.

Oh, and Whirlwind has 85% accuracy instead of 100% like in later versions, which we all know is of utmost importance.

You also might want to mention that Lapras learns Solar Beam in RBY but not in later versions, and that Lance is a sharker.
 
Great guide. Really informative. I've been wanting to make a RBY team but it has been so long I forgot a lot of stuff but now I should have no problems.
 
For critical hit stats, you should reword it to note that both pokemons' original stats are used. Otherwise people would more easily miss things like the stat change due to transform and burns.

Hazing a frozen pokemon will also defrost it.

Keep in mind that stat reductions due to stat ailments will be reapplied if an appropriate stat lowerer is used against the pokemon, and that negating behavior is not present in Stadium at all.

Swift cannot miss. Ever. Except from type immunity. I know from personally testing it. I think that like Recover, Barrier, etc, there simply isn't an accuracy check performed for it, so this is why they and any other move with an accuracy of --- (or NA, or however you choose to represent it) don't miss.

On the missing note, if an attack would hit but do 0 damage to a pokemon (possible only with a 4x resistance or an immunity I believe) the attack will instead miss. Use of Jump Kick against a ghost should always result in crash damage.

With Mimic you should probably note that there are no restrictions at all on what it can copy, so long as its in the opponent's move set.

Substitute doesn't save you from Leech Seed unless you're in Stadium. You should probably also include a warning for the slight possibility that a pokemon's HP is exactly equal to 1/4 of its max because use of substitute then will actually cause it to faint.

Rage increases the user's attack by 1 level every time it's hit. Same as in RSE but not the same as GSC. Also note that if it ever misses due to anything other than type immunity its accuracy is 0.4% (I've tested this. Just based on numbers something seems to invert there though I can't guess the what or why of it.)

Oh yeah and nothing about Psychic's effect rate is noted here...

And Struggle does 50% recoil.

Pidgeot500 said:
For some reason Azure Heights calculated Sludge's chance of poison as 36%... http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/attacks/s/sludge.htm . Dunno if you want to include that.
That one was an anomoly in their testing. Something was briefly said about that in the forum. See the Psychic page too.


Kikuichimonji said:
Lance is a sharker.
Well, to be fair... if you transform into it you'll notice its moves in order are Agility, Slam, Barrier, Hyper Beam. They meant to make it Dragon Rage but somehow found Barrier instead. And they managed to switch Omanyte's and Omastar's level set too.
 
Ah, I see (about Sludge)...

Kamex said:
Swift cannot miss. Ever. Except from type immunity. I know from personally testing it. I think that like Recover, Barrier, etc, there simply isn't an accuracy check performed for it, so this is why they and any other move with an accuracy of --- (or NA, or however you choose to represent it) don't miss.
Really? I think many of us have been under the illusion that it could... This is awesome. Very awesome. Now Swift is cool again. =)
 

Hipmonlee

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Yeah me too Vin.. I kinda liked the idea it could miss, it just sorta summed up RBY perfectly..

Have a nice day.
 

Vineon

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Pidgeot500 said:
For special, maybe consider saying that either special was picked to be either special attack or special defense for the later generations, with a new stat value being created for the other.
done

Pidgeot500 said:
I don't know, I guess it probably wouldn't be necessary to say that poison/burn/seed turn-by-turn effects take place mid-partial trapping move. Both NetBattle and the RBYbot are glitched so it doesn't (Toxic does not prevent something like Cloyster from sweeping, nor does it help Cloyster when used against an enemy Chansey). You could probably mention that when you switch while trapped, if the partial trapping move user stays in, they will automatically use a new instance of the partial trapping move on the switch, and another PP is taken from that move. And that you can't stop using these moves mid-use, you have to wait until they finish before you can choose to pick a different move or not. Oh, and even more, you could add that these moves work like multi-turn moves with CH.
done


Pidgeot500 said:
was pretty sure it was 1/256 but I can't find any reliable sources... by the way, will e-mail you about that, Kamex.
Possibly.. tell me when you're sure.

Pidgeot500 said:
With Counter, you could possibly change around the wording to specify how it just counters back normal-type and fighting-type damage, so it can counter Counter damage and recoil damage. Also, you could give fuller examples of things that don't reset the counterable damage, like I did in the other topic in the old forum (the one by Will of the Wisp).
And you could mention how counter behaves with Substitute, see Kamex's guide for a full description if you want but basically with a sub up Counter will counter the amount of damage it would have done.
hmmm.. you'd probably be best suited to rewrite Counter entirely, if you dont mind. Please do it and I'll use that to replace what I've writen.

Pidgeot500 said:
With Selfdestruct/Explosion, actually, it does work with 130/170 damage and halving defense like in RS...
Really... Had no clue..

Pidgeot500 said:
Oh, you could mention that it will return to normal the next time you use Dig/Fly again.
What are you talking about.

Pidgeot500 said:
Yeah, FE will quarter your CH rate, to be more accurate, as discussed in the other topic.

You could specify that it will even copy a move you already have, with Mimic, since people always seem to ask about that (unless that's the same in RS?).
both now mentionned

Pidgeot500 said:
For some reason Azure Heights calculated Sludge's chance of poison as 36%... http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure/attacks/s/sludge.htm . Dunno if you want to include that.
I would but I dont think thats right.. it isnt like that on Netbattle at least.
 

Vineon

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Kikuichimonji said:
Karate chop is a Normal move instead of Fighting, keeping it from being useful.
Was already mentionned.. and yes I WOULD have used karate chop machamp for sure.

Kikuichimonji said:
Hyper Beam doesn't recharge if it hits Gengar.
Just added that it still doesnt need to recharge if it misses.

Kikuichimonji said:
Substitute blocks secondary effects of attacks, except on NB where Body Slam can still paralyze through substitute.
Are you totally sure about that..

Kikuichimonji said:
Oh, and Whirlwind has 85% accuracy instead of 100% like in later versions, which we all know is of utmost importance.
Yeah I guess it doesnt matter for a move that have absolutely no effect.

Kikuichimonji said:
You also might want to mention that Lapras learns Solar Beam in RBY but not in later versions, and that Lance is a sharker.
As it does in gsc... theres a LOT of movepool differences between rby & rs, I dont plan to add those :x.
 

Vineon

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Kamex said:
Hazing a frozen pokemon will also defrost it.
right

Kamex said:
Keep in mind that stat reductions due to stat ailments will be reapplied if an appropriate stat lowerer is used against the pokemon, and that negating behavior is not present in Stadium at all.
Heard about it, but wasnt sure.

Kamex said:
Swift cannot miss. Ever. Except from type immunity. I know from personally testing it. I think that like Recover, Barrier, etc, there simply isn't an accuracy check performed for it, so this is why they and any other move with an accuracy of --- (or NA, or however you choose to represent it) don't miss.
Thought it could, fixed.

Kamex said:
Substitute doesn't save you from Leech Seed unless you're in Stadium. You should probably also include a warning for the slight possibility that a pokemon's HP is exactly equal to 1/4 of its max because use of substitute then will actually cause it to faint.
k, AH says it can block leech seed.. also I had no clue substitute could kill you :x, I've never seen it happen. Does it work like that on Netbattle too?

Kamex said:
Rage increases the user's attack by 1 level every time it's hit. Same as in RSE but not the same as GSC. Also note that if it ever misses due to anything other than type immunity its accuracy is 0.4% (I've tested this. Just based on numbers something seems to invert there though I can't guess the what or why of it.)
k, that is pretty weird, *adds it

Kamex said:
Oh yeah and nothing about Psychic's effect rate is noted here...

And Struggle does 50% recoil.
somehow missed Psychic :O
 

Vineon

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Also leechseed/toxic combo could probably use a better explanation if anyone's willing to do it.
 
Vineon said:
k, AH says it can block leech seed..
It doesn't, it says it will ignore it.

also I had no clue substitute could kill you :x, I've never seen it happen. Does it work like that on Netbattle too?
It used to in all versions (before 0.9.x), then it was fixed not to (since it shouldn't in GSC) and I've currently noted it.

And just as an interesting side note you may want to add that if you hurt yourself in confusion, the substitute will take the hit.


Vineon said:
Kikuichimonji said:
Substitute blocks secondary effects of attacks, except on NB where Body Slam can still paralyze through substitute.
Are you totally sure about that..
If a move might to cause a status ailment like Body Slam, it won't. If a move must (barring accuracy) cause a status ailment like Thunder Wave or Sleep Powder it will. This probably is another instance of bypassing the check. And of course it was changed in Stadium. And of course the exception to this is poison which is always blocked for some reason. And it works the other direction for confusion btw... if a move must cause confusion (Confuse Ray) it will always fail but if it might cause it (Psybeam) its chance of happening is unaltered.
 
Type Effectiveness Differences
Theres a few differences when it comes to types’s effectiveness against other types in RBY. Here’s the list :
• Ice is neutral to Fire instead of Not Very Effective.
• Poison is Super Effective against Bug instead of Neutral.
• Bug is Super Effective against Poison instead of Not Very Effective.
• Ghost will NOT work on Psychic instead of being Super Effective regardless of what any RBY type chart tells you.

its a long time since iv played this but i remeber noticing in-game, that it's not the move thats wrong it just the writing on the screen, e.g using razor leaf on gyrados will come up as not very effective, but it will actually deal normal effective damage, as it should. Same if you ice beam charizard (it will come up as super effective, but hit for normal effective, though i cant remember much......, i defintealy remember my jolteons pin missile (ok i was a n00b) being super effective aginast a golbat and doing F*** all damage, i.e like 5%. I don't know bout ghost moves though.
 

Altmer

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ice beam charizard should be se since fire does not resist ice and flying is weak

but indeed, on the cart it says that eq is super effective on venusaur when it should be normal damage.

damage doesn't change...
 
According to Jolt, who seems to be quite knowledgable about the games mechanics, Swift can miss.

Jolt135 said:
1. The 99.6 Rule
Yes, that much-hated rule comes to haunt players all the time. But what is
it?

Well, each move has an 8-bit accuracy number. This means 0 to 255, although
the lowest such number actually assigned to a move is 75 for the one-hit
kills. Basically, the accuracy check is "Throw out a random 8-bit number, and
if it's less than the accuracy number, the move hits."

Notice anything wrong with that? Yep--it's "less than" instead of "less than
or equal to". Which means that when the random check turns up 255, it causes
any move--including Psychic, Thunderbolt, and yes, even Swift--to miss. So
the so-called "100 accuracy" moves actually have a 1-in-256 (0.390625%) chance
to miss. Hence it's called "The 99.6 Rule" (the pedantic version, "The
99.609375 Rule," puts too little emphasis on the rule and too much on the
number). And until GSC (even afterwards, including some who believe in it to
this day), everyone feared that it would strike at the most inopportune time.
All it did was turn surefire wins into losses for no apparent reason, and with
no possible circumvention.
Taken from: http://db.gamefaqs.com/portable/gameboy/file/pokemon_strategy.txt
 
you know all of the stuff here would be quite informational to many of the players who want to make the jump from advanced to rby, and with a little more information-tiers, major threats, etc-this could become a full blown beginners guide to rby. what do you guys think
 
Edit: OK, so it is 1/256... Yeah, 255 and 256 are easily confused when dealing with arrays and programming and such... =\ Also to cookkirby I think this is too technical for a beginner's guide, it would only be useful if such a guide were aimed only at people who already knew RS, which should not be a prerequisite for such a guide unless that guide is specifically such a guide, if that working wasn't as confusing to you as it was to me.

For some reason the carts only care about the second type when the types negate each out for effectiveness, in the display, aye...

I noticed that too, but does Haze actually cause a defrost, or just reset it wordlessly? If so, maybe reword this.

Vineon said:
hmmm.. you'd probably be best suited to rewrite Counter entirely, if you dont mind. Please do it and I'll use that to replace what I've writen.
Not at all :D Hmm...

This attack is able to counter damage taken as the result of a normal-type or fighting-type attack, including Counter and Bide damage, Seismic Toss damage, and recoil damage. (Only the last amount of damage done for attacks which cause multiple instances of damage while using only one PP, however.) The amount of damage countered is not influenced by type, and will hit ghost-types.

Importantly, Counter can be used to counter back damage done on previous turns, not just on the same turn that it is used. The rule to follow is this: when normal-type or fighting-type damage is done to the Pokemon, that Pokemon will lose the ability to counter back that damage the next time an attack is used on that Pokemon. This includes turns during which an opponent is switched out, is asleep or wakes up, is frozen or defrosted, is fully paralyzed, or uses the non-damaging turn of a multi-hit move such as recharging, gathering sunlight, or glowing.

Also, this attack can work when the damage is done to the substitute (even when the user has a substitute), to counter back the amount of damage that would have been done to the user, allowing Counter to counter back damage that is more than double the user's HP, for instance in the case of Explosion and Selfdestruct.
That's mostly it, though some of this could be labeled in a general section for Bide and Counter, such as how decreased priority modifiers behave in situations involving sleep and freeze, and how the game says Counter CH's but it does the same amount of damage anyway (all this via Kamex's RBYStuff).

Vineon said:
Pidgeot500 said:
Oh, you could mention that it will return to normal the next time you use Dig/Fly again.
What are you talking about.
Oh, the Dig/Fly invulnerability glitches. The next time you use them, it'll complete them, saying "Pokemon used Dig/Fly" or whatever. You'll usually have to do this eventually if you're PP wasted, even if it's on the last use of this move since when you FP mid-move you don't use PP.

I'd maybe recommend doing more describing Bide, but since no one ever talks about it I don't know how it differs from RS, just that it's a lot like Counter but will always hit the enemy, even if it's Gengar (as with Counter) or in the middle of Fly. Man, they really need to fix that Gengar thing with Counter in NetBattle, I hate how someone can switch in Gengar after I sleep them with Chansey...

Hmm, Toxic/Leech Seed... RBYStuff says Leech Seed esentially makes Toxic work twice as fast, but nothing about how much HP you absorb. I can test this out on NetBattle later today. (By the way, Kamex, on a side note, I found a typo under "Leech Seed" you have the word "of" twice in a row at the end of line and start of the next, not that it matters at all which is why I just mention this casually. ;-) )
 

Hipmonlee

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hmmm.. you'd probably be best suited to rewrite Counter entirely, if you dont mind. Please do it and I'll use that to replace what I've writen.
replace what who has written?

Also Redwall, I am pretty sure Jolt135 and Kamex are the same person..

Have a nice day.
 

Vineon

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oh yeah I mentionned this before but I'll mention it again because he's an ass, I actually took some/most of this stuff from Hipmonlee's rby glitch thread which I used as a base to make this.

I believe I used most of his wording for counter, the trapping moves, and most of the other stuff that were in that thread.


Then I added everything else I could think of because I felt that thread needed completeness.
 
Ok, on the Swift thing,

Jolt135's faq is quite informative but it hasn't been updated in nearly 3 years, and the last time I combed through it there were definately still errors in it (not to play superior here especially since mine still has a couple of things to fix, just pointing this out).

I did about 960 or so trials (60 pp [for convenience] per move x 4 moves x 2 pokemon x twice) and Swift did not miss once. And I'm offering a theoretically sensible justification as well. If anyone actually sees it miss that would be significant.



Fog said:
its a long time since iv played this but i remeber noticing in-game, that it's not the move thats wrong it just the writing on the screen, e.g using razor leaf on gyrados will come up as not very effective, but it will actually deal normal effective damage, as it should.
It does give the wrong effectiveness messages many times, but the noted type effectiveness changes are correct. These can be verified with the BDF, or by using the moves in Stadium where the correct effectiveness message is always displayed.


Pidgeot500 said:
For some reason the carts only care about the second type when the types negate each out for effectiveness, in the display, aye...
This is something I have to correct... It explains nearly all of it but not why thunderbolt is "not very effective" against Dragonite.
 

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