1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. Please refer to this thread for the current Smogon Tier Lists.
  3. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Gen 1 RBY RMT

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Umby, Jun 7, 2012.

  1. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,501
    Alright, I made this with Stadium Mode in mind (since PO uses stadium), but suggestions for True RBY are also welcome. Tbh, this looks kinda like one of Shrapn3l's old teams, but w/e.

    Hypno (F) @ (No Item)
    - Psychic
    - Rest
    - Hypnosis / Thunder Wave / Counter
    - Seismic Toss / Counter

    I like Alakazam's speed for Substitute, but I also like Hypno's durability. I'm a bit torn on the third slot. If I use either status move, that potentially conflicts with Venusaur's Sleep Powder. If I use Counter, I'm overall shorthanding myself for what is potentially a gimmick. I listed Counter in the last slot because I tried it at one point in time. Then Zam started getting more on my nerves.

    Golem (F) @ (No Item)
    - Explosion
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Body Slam

    I don't know what advent caused Zapdos to become so much more rampant, but it's there. I honestly prefer not using Golem/Rhydon, but Electrics must be defended against.

    Venusaur (M) @ (No Item)
    - Razor Leaf
    - Sleep Powder
    - Body Slam
    - Swords Dance

    I'm really thinking I should just switch it out for Exeggutor. The main reason I'm using this is because Tobybro is everywhere now, and I like this option for handling it more than my other options.

    Raichu (M) @ (No Item)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Surf
    - Thunder Wave
    - Submission / Body Slam

    I had Zapdos in this slot, but I have a terrible time defending against Golem/Rhydon, thanks to Venusaur taking up Eggy's slot. Currently trying Submission in the last slot, since (I personally feel that) I lack some physical punch in handling Chansey. I can see Eggy being a huge pain, though.

    Slowbro (F) @ (No Item)
    - Amnesia
    - Rest
    - Thunder Wave
    - Surf

    Helps defend against Tauros. Maybe I should use another set, since Gengar and Starmie like to fuck up the party before it gets started.

    Tauros (M) @ (No Item)
    - Hyper Beam
    - Body Slam
    - Earthquake
    - Blizzard

    It may be Stadium, but Hyper Beam's still a valuable moveslot, IMO.
  2. Omanyte

    Omanyte

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2011
    Messages:
    49
    Rest on Hypno doesn't really work without Reflect, as Hypno is not bulky enough to survive a Tauros or Snorlax switch in (and obviously letting Tauros get a free switch in is not recommended). Seismic Toss is more useful in Stadium due to all the Substitute Zams running amok, so I'd keep that in there. Hypnosis and Counter make a mean combo, and really there's no point in having Hypnosis without Counter because of the significant sleep nerf in Stadium. Two sleepers might be overkill, though. If you do want to run Hypnosis, I'd consider Stun Spore on Venusaur/Eggy.
    So personally I'd go for:
    Psychic
    Seismic Toss
    Counter
    Thunder Wave (or Hypnosis if you want)

    Raichu seems like an odd choice. He's significantly worse than Zapdos and whilst Surf is nice, if he gets paralysed he'll lose to Golem/Rhydon anyway. I'd consider trading Raichu for Jolteon and Venusaur for Eggy. Golem/Rhydon are dealt with much better with Eggy, as is Gengar. Jolteon thrashes Starmie and deals with Chansey pretty well too, as Double Kick after a Focus Energy will do ~55%. Heck, it even takes ~1/3 damage off Golem. And of course Thunderbolt will rip through Slowbro.

    Golem, Slowbro and Tauros are all pretty standard.

    So:
    Hypno
    Golem
    Exeggutor (Sleep Powder, Psychic, Explosion, 4th move of choice)
    Jolteon (T-Bolt, Focus Energy, Double Kick, Pin Missile)
    Slowbro
    Tauros
  3. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,176
    I feel like Hypno without Rest kind of ruins Hypno as a possible Zam/Chansey replacement. Letting Lax and Tauros have free turns is poo, but you can't really go without healing on Hypno, and you can't really run Reflect because you need all of Twave, SToss, and Psychic. Twave may conflict with Venusaur, but combined with SToss you easily paralyze SubZam for Venusaur.

    Golem is cool, and paralyzed stallers fear him. Reflect is often foregone for Substitute, so that really only helps the turtle boulder's case.

    Venusaur is interesting, and a move I approve of in Stadium with Gengar usage way down due to Sleep being nerfed to hell and Zam being uber-popular with the advent of Substitute. That being said, Victreebel might be better; you get better Attacking stats and, while you lose Speed, you don't really lose the ability to outpace anything relevant (except for Cloyster and other Victreebel, which are marginally relevant at best). One thing to watch out for, though: Psychic Slowbro. After an Amnesia that shit can OHKO.

    Raichu is poo, but I will grant you do have Rock problems without Egg. Still, Raichu doesn't really solve that. Jolteon is nice with Focus Energy, but has a bear of a time with just giving those guys free switches, so I'd advise against it in this slot. For something gimmicky here, Zapdos with Reflect + Rest can actually outlast Golem, or at the very least get it to consider bothering with Rock Slide as you switch out to Slowbro, Venu/Vic, or even your own Golem. Or, for something more conventional, you could ditch the Electric for something like Snorlax who can draw Rocks in and whittle them away with Earthquake (or actually catch them by surprise with Surf, something Raichu can't really do). You don't really need an Electric for Slowbro, since you have the Razor Leafer to beat it and your own Slowbro to stall it out should it come to that.

    Slowbro is kind of defining Stadium at the moment since lots of Chanseys are ditching Tbolt, Zam is amok, Sleep no longer checks him, and Hyper Beam isn't used nearly as much and therefore can't finish it off. Gengar and Starmie can easily be Twaved and put into peril the next time they try to ruin you.

    Tauros is a nice crit machine, but Hyper Beam is really really bad in Stadium. It's strong and it can get you KOs, but misses are the worst and you give up the next turn to something that'll probably just end up killing Tauros back (unless it's late-game, in which case you've probably already won without Hyper Beam). I don't know what would be best for a fourth move, but I feel like Hyper Beam might easily be better replaced by Substitute, Double-Edge, or even Stomp.
  4. shrapn3l

    shrapn3l

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    169
    the stinky thing is paralyzing zam isn't really THAT great for venusaur, because with a swords dance body slam is still a 2hko, and zam can just paralyze you back and then psychic you or recover the ~60% later on if you decide to switch out. i realize sleep is "bad" in stadium but i think sleeping zam would be more helpful to venusaur than paralysis regardless if that's the logic we're using. paralyzing zam early on like that kind of sucks for venusaurs sleep powder also. tbh venusaur seems kinda bleh with both zapdos and zam on so many teams but i dunno any other cool ways to kill slowbro myself so i'm not sure what to recommend really. growth tangela???

    i'd also consider sandslash or nidoking over golem. between either of those + raichu you should be able to handle zapdos, and sandslash is not a terrible back-up switch-in to rock types either.

    hyper beam is fine on tauros.
  5. Omanyte

    Omanyte

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2011
    Messages:
    49
    Unless you're VERY good at predicting, Rest Hypno just won't work out without Reflect (or possibly Substitute?). Rest in general doesn't work in RBY without some defence boosting.

    Agreed. If you're not going to go with Eggy, Victreebel does an identical job to Venusaur, but slightly better.

    Thunderbolt is also possible for Slowbro (if it hasn't set up) or the odd Cloyster. Double-Edge is probably the best choice though.
  6. 420

    420

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    245
    10/10
  7. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    872
    I think Hyper Beam would still be the best 4th move for Tauros on Stadium. It can win you last poke tauros dittos or any other last poke matchup, and sometimes in any other scenario it could be worth the KO even considering you'll have to eat whatever hit next. Tbolt could be another option, but I think nobody uses Cloy there and I don't even remember if Clamp is working on PO/Stadium...

    Definitely keep Submission on Raichu and consider adding Snorlax somewhere. I'd just drop Venusaur and Raichu for Snorlax and Zapdos tbh. Raichu doesn't really solve the problem of Golem/Rhydon (okay raichu wont probably have to switch out against them, but it can't switch into them anyway). SDGrasses just lose a lot of potential when you "can't" use Hyper Beam.
  8. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,410
    Double Edge is better than Hyper Beam on Stadium in general as it has still high BP and if you kill the opponent with DE you don't get recoil damage.
  9. shrapn3l

    shrapn3l

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    169
    100 base power isn't "high" and the recoil is bad when you don't kill. i don't understand, are you whittling lapras down into double-edge ko range or something? you 4hko it regardless of whether you use body slam or double-edge and body slam not only doesn't have recoil but it can paralyze! hyper beam lets you get a lot of important KOs much faster and beat many more things one on one, and often, being forced to switch out because you can't kill or being forced to take a hit/para because you can't kill because you have shitty double-edge is going to be worse than whatever hit you are forced to take on the recharge turn with hyper beam. for example, killing exeggutor at 46-54% is better than taking an explosion/stun spore. killing chansey at 63-74% is better than practically never 2hkoing it with double-edge while it paralyzes you and softboiled stalls you and you take shitloads of recoil. winning tauros dittos, like crystal_ mentioned, is also important. remember that you are the one that decides when you use hyper beam, not your opponent, so just play smart... tbh you barely ever have to use the 4th slot anyway, and hyper beam is the most likely of your options to get you out of a tough situation.
  10. -Absol-

    -Absol-

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    in rby you NEED chansey on EVERY team. you should put her instead of hypno.
    raichu could be a good choice if you have someone who takes advantage from his baiting to golem / rhydon. But... you haven't, so put gengar (stoss-hypnosis-tbolt-explosion) on the team. gengar is the best sleep assorber in rby; furthermore, by now agility dragonite rapes you (actually, the wrappers in general) so... ^^
    bye
  11. Omanyte

    Omanyte

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2011
    Messages:
    49
    No you don't.
    Sure, most teams run Chansey, but she's not essential by any means.
  12. Psyshock

    Psyshock

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    True. I don't use Chansey; IDK why. Other bulky Pokemon are usable and arguably pack more surprise factor than Chansey.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)