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Reflecting on BW and Looking Ahead to Gen VI - SEE POST #508

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Huntofthelion, Jan 8, 2013.

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  1. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    Hydreigon has everything it needs to be absurdly successful in OU except for a better base speed and better typing. It has quite possibly the single-best movepool in OU (Jirachi is the only one that immediately comes to mind that has a comparable movepool, and I'd still say Hydreigon has the edge), really only lacking Thunderbolt/Thunder for coverage.

    Sorry, I realize this is horribly off topic (Aura Sphere/Thunderbolt 4 Hydreigon in Gen VI), but I felt like that needed to be addressed.

    EDIT: Habib, after looking at your post, I think you didn't realize just how incredible Dragon/Bug would be. Several Steels in OU have a Psychic sub-typing (Jirachi most prominently), and that would be their undoing when they're hit with STAB Bug Buzz.
  2. Siggu

    Siggu

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    In that case you could very well have a Dragon/Fighting pokémon, much like Sidfrid said

    It may probably be the single best typing combination in the game:
    - Ridiculous type coverage, combining Fighting amazing super-effective coverage and Dragon's near-perfect neutral coverage
    - Unresisted dual STABs as of Gen V (Don't even bother mentioning Shedinja). Ghost/Steel is the only typing combination that could resist it
    - Seven resistances, including Rock, Dark (Pursuit) and both components of Volt-Turn. How many pokémon (Not only those with a clearly offensive-oriented typing) can not only boast the number of resistances they have but also the KIND of resistances they have?
    - Four weaknesses that are not only resisted by almost all steels but they can be nearly completely got under control by slapping a Bronzong (And Jirachi, but you would get a Ground weakness our Dragon/Fighting buddy cannot cover) as a partner, resisting those four types and not being weak to almost all the coverage move types they may have (Fire, a type Dragon/Fighting resists, being the only exception)

    Stats (And/or a potentially crippling ability) would be the only things that would stop a Dragon/Fighting pokémon from being top OU, if not Uber
  3. keleyeemoh

    keleyeemoh

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    I find it ridiculous that the only Dragon/Fire we have is Reshiram, considering that DRAGONS BREATHE FIRE.

    As far as the Dragon/Fighting thing goes, I'd love for it to be introduced as a counterpart to the proposed Ghost/Steel Pokémon.
  4. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Why am I so shit
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    Best STAB: Hammer Arm

    Then suddenly Jirachi, Skarmory, Bronzong, Metagross, *check* Scizor and Forretress can kind of check it.
  5. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    About Dragon/Fire typings, I think I know why they are almost absent, so I'll write down my explanation.
    Only European dragons breathe fire. Myths about Mexican, African and Asian dragons usually don't suggest them breathing fire. Also, European dragons not only breathe fire, they also fly with the huge wings such a dragon has.
    Which means a Pokémon designed after an European dragon will usually carry the Dragon/Flying type, unless they decide to give it Dragon/Fire with Levitate.
    And other dragons don't breathe fire in the myths they are based upon.

    The closest thing to a classical fire-breathing dragon in Pokémon is Salamence as it is, but with Moxie... well.


    About Dragon/Fighting, that type would be insane and awesome. And the Pokémon with that type would go to Ubers right away unless given somewhat low stats, like 85 across the board.

    Another good typing is Electric/Fighting.
    Two weaknesses (Psychic/Ground), and five resistances (Bug, Dark, Electric, Rock, Steel), and huge offensive coverage especially if it has access to Ice-type attacks. BoltBeam AND a STAB Fighting move? Yes please.
    But yeah, I hope many new typings get introduced, and I hope some of those Pokémon are weak enough to use in NU if auto-weather stays in OU.
  6. Ada

    Ada
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    I’m hoping for a Pokemon that can change their abilities, as I feel that this is still an unexplored concept. We already have a Pokemon that can change their type (Arceus), a Pokemon that can change their moves (Smeargle), and a Pokemon that can change their appearance (Ditto). It would probably be a Normal-type too, as I feel like they have the most potential. They normally come with good movepools to boot (aside from legendary Pokemon) so the only "real" issue would be the stats (which can be conveniently “solved” by being legendary themselves). Of course, being able to change stats would also be cool, but at this point are we still playing Pokemon?
  7. nmitchell890

    nmitchell890

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    A Dragon/Fighting pokemon could potentially fit into OU if it had only Outrage as its physical STAB. It would be similar to Terrakion with Stone Edge, except with better resistances and a worse drawback on its move. It could even have potential flavour-wise, it could end up being similar to the superhero Iron Fist. I would rofl so hard if one is made and it gets Iron Fist as an ability.
  8. sickweare

    sickweare

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    We have something like that with Trace which copies the opponent's ability upon switching in.
  9. G-Von

    G-Von

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    I don't know if this was mentioned before but a cool addition to Generation VI would be a signature hold item for Meloetta that changes it to it's P-form. This way it would open up a moveslot for it and doesn't need to waste a turn to set up. It would be a major help for it and I don't think it would be too much trouble for GF to make this kind of addition.
  10. Ada

    Ada
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    That’s not what I meant; that’s like comparing a Mirror Move user to Smeargle, I meant in a more permanent sense of the word “change”. Maybe I should have used a different word… |>-_-
  11. Dilasc

    Dilasc

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    I know we have Dragon/Flying types... but what if we had one with an ability that provided Dragon immunity... preferably with an accompanying Stat boost.


    You'd have the best dragon counter in the game: Only those with moldbreaker and their clones would NOT have to either switch out or carry Rock/Ice Moves for this thing.


    All of the common coverage moves to go along with dragon: fighting, ground, fire and water, are resisted by Dragon/Flying. Meaning that with this ability, it could wall dragons all day long.
  12. Goodra

    Goodra

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    I'd rather see a non legend Dragon/Ghost then another Dragon/Flying. Hell I'd like to see a Dragon/Bug, Dragon/Fighting, or Dragon/Psychic then another Dragon/Flying.
  13. Explorer

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    I think if we add any more hazards the game will become of one mindset: set down every hazard possible and keep them off your side, and you win with ease.

    Also:

    1. Among the typings that have been discussed, I feel that Steel/Dragon is cool, with few weaknesses. It would make a nice legendary Pokemon (maybe another trio, like Steel/Poison, Steel/Dragon, and Steel/Water)

    2. How about a Pokemon that can have two different weather-inducing abilities?

    3. Better distribution of Gastro Acid would be appreciated.
  14. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    We already have a Steel/Dragon legendary - Dialga.

    Anybody think Ghost/Fighting would be good? It would be a Spinblocker who can actually stay in against Tyranitar.
  15. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan I remember it all too well...
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    A good spinblocker (offensive/defensive wouldn't even matter) in OU NOT weak to Pursuit/Dark-type moves in general would be a blessing to stall and even hyper-offensive. Just from Ubers experience (I'm trying to get into OU) just laying down hazards AND keeping them there shifts the odds heavily in your favor. Now a good Ghost/Fighting with Rapid Spin? This is my dream and it would be a brilliant team supporter. :) COME ON GAMEFREAK!
  16. Explorer

    Explorer

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    Or we can just use a Ghost-type (or Psychic-type) that has an ability that makes it immune to Dark-type moves. But then its defense should be low to compensate for that so Tyranitar can do good damage with Stone Edge.
  17. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
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    I'd like to see Detect get some love since it's completely pointless with Protect around.
    Detect would Protect the user for a turn and raise Defense one stage. Flavor-wise is makes sense because once a Pokemon Detect that an Attack is coming, it's far more prepared for it. The 8 PP maximum would be justified since you can't just spam the move with Subs and your Defenses boost are easily Roared away, leaving you with even less PP for the move next time.

    I'd also like to see a decent user of Imprison. (because Imprison lead Landorus with SR & Imprison Outrage/Iron Head/Focus Blast Kyurem aren't trolling enough)
    It would be really cool to see a Pokemon that seals away the majority of the moves it's weak to without having to kill it's own move coverage. (Gallade Imprisoning Shadow Ball for instance. It's adorable but lol @ no Ice Punch.) I know that Bisharp doesn't get Imprision nor Close Combat but this is an example:
    [​IMG]
    Bisharp (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Imprison
    - Sucker Punch
    - Close Combat
    - Substitute

    This is an example of a very good Imprison user. This set would be mean to fight against. For one, with Imprison up, you can't set up a Substitute against Bisharp so you have to take a Sucker Punch or Close Combat to the face or Roar him out since Imprison stays in effect until Bisharp switches out. Secondly, Close Combat is sealed so Sucker Punch resistant Pokemon are now just limited to Steel- and Dark-types (Minus Keldeo and Conkeldurr since they don't use CC) so they're have to take a Close Combat to the face to get past him. And finally, Bisharp can make great use of a Sub itself to prevent status, which can force Pokemon to attack. The big flaw is that Pokemon like Jellicent can just Recover to the stall way Sucker Punch PP but no set is without its issues.

    Imprison could be brutal with the right Pokemon for the job but unfortunately, maybe with the exception of Lead Landorus-I, there are NO good Imprison users and it's a damn shame.
  18. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    Detect is actually a buffed Protect in doubles, which is what Nintendo really cares about. Don't expect any changes to it.

    Edit at below: Bizarre, for some reason I had always been under the impression that Detect had a higher rate of continuous success, but I can't find any evidence for it.
  19. BluhBluh

    BluhBluh

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    It's only a buffed Protect in doubles because of its poor distribution, which means most Imprison users can't learn it. In singles, it's essentially Protect's unpopular cousin, due to the lower PP (8 PP against 16 PP), making it easier to PP stall out.

    That said, I don't think that GF will buff Detect in Gen 6. Maybe they'll change the mechanics of Protect and Detect, but not buff Detect to a stronger version of Protect.

    Edit in response to Tobes' edit:
    Wording is vague, but I think this can be evidence:
    http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Protect_(move)
    http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Detect_(move)

    From the wording, I think it means Protect's chance of working is cut by half every time it is successful, while Detect is a solid 50% after the first use if used successively. So I think you're right on that point and my analogy needs to be tweaked a bit.
  20. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    We need an item that increases trick room turns, at least by a little. It sucks that one of the precious turns is wasted when you set up trick room, and the common protect really kills the strategy. 6 turns total would be nice. Trick room would be a great form of all out offense.
  21. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego Currently experiencing a serious case of Dance Kittens
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    One the topic of protect, one thing I really want to see is a protect that blocks the opponent. In singles it would be completely identical, but in doubles, say the opponent wanted to use Earthquake. Instead of having both pokemon protect to avoid the move, you could use only one pokemon to stop the opponent's attack, but still be vulnerable to the other pokemon while also being able to attack with your own other pokemon.

    It could lead to some more interesting matches.
  22. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    That would change singles greatly, since you could then block, say, a swords dancing terrakion from setting up while protecting with blissey rather than having it actually set up.
  23. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego Currently experiencing a serious case of Dance Kittens
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    No, no, no, it would still allow the opponent to alter themselves. Block the attacks coming from a terrakion? Lol just SD up. Same as normal protect, blocks all the attacks coming from the opponent.
  24. Hugin

    Hugin

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    I'm sort of wondering if UU won't become the main tier in gen VI, with OU shifting to be more like Ubers, a combo of n00bs and people who really like pushing the upper limits of Pokemon. It seems like it'd be far easier to just play UU and let the upper echelon of power rampage through OU than it would be to try to suspect everything that will be broken in a new gen with a whole new list of threats. Sure, individuals are doing that this time, but I'm thinking there may be some sort of an official shift.
  25. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    Or just give next generation two Uber tiers, with the first being the current Ubers, the banlist, and the second for things which are extremely powerful but not actually banned (what OU is going to be if we aren't careful), like the current OU.
    The new OU, probably closer to the current UU, would have permanent weather banned.
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