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Reflecting on BW and Looking Ahead to Gen VI - SEE POST #508

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Huntofthelion, Jan 8, 2013.

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  1. HolyAvatar

    HolyAvatar

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    Ancient forest spirit could also be an alternative: ghost?
    Bug type would be very weird indeed even tough there's a butterfly-ish look.
  2. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Leafeon: Leaves, grass type
    Umbreon: Umbra=shadow, dark type
    Sylveon: Silva=Forest... has to be bug type
    Gamefreak has made it pretty darn clear that in the games you go to the forest to catch bugs, starting way back when with Viridian Forest.

    Which is a shame because Dragon was the only special attacking type that hasn't been released yet and they've all been special based so far.


    Edit: Unless there really is a new fairy/light type, then that would sort of make sense. Celebi was in a forest. Nymphali is its French name, so either bug or fairy.
    http://thedailyhotness.net/post/42939398704/ninfia-or-nympheon-is-the-first-of-two-eevee
    This says the type will be good against Dragon and bad against Steel and "has information from source code" to support the claims. Doesn't seem so legit, but interesting speculation either way.
  3. HolyAvatar

    HolyAvatar

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    Good against dragon and bad against steel is dragon (and ice btw). Maybe better SE coverage than dragon (not hard) but worse than ice, better defensive typing than ice (only resists ice and weak to a lot of things) but worse than dragon...
    Hope we don't get too much redondant coverage with some other type.
  4. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Why am I so shit
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    Sylveon may also come from Sylph, which makes it a Fairy or a Flying pokémon. The German name is also related with fairies and feelings, leaving not much room for Bugs.

    Also, if you're not discussing anything stricly competitive, then you should come here!!!
  5. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Sorry Mario it's pretty much my fault XD. I introduced Sylveon into this thread and it kind of spiraled into a typing discussion similar to the actual discussion thread. I'll switch up the conversation.

    On the topic of Sylveon, if it were to be a Bug type with the stat spread of lets say 80/85/75/110/85/115. Basically, a special attacking Scizor but much faster. Not very bulky, but has decent Special defense and great special attack but amazing speed. Although I'm one of the many supporters of a more balanced 6th gen with not a whole bunch of offensive juggernauts like 5th gen, I feel like Sylveon would function more offensively just by looking at it. If Sylveon had this spread, I think it would be an amazing alternative to Scizor because it would be more of a sweeper/cleanup then a Pursuit trapping priority powerhouse like Scizor. Most would probably prefer Scizor over it because of his POWERRRR but Sylveon would be an amazing check to the Eon twins without having to worry about being out sped, and Sylveon could also speed tie Starmie and out speed Gengar, both who are really hard to out speed and check effectively without a Choice Scarf. I feel like it would literally be the complete opposite match of Scizor, and most would run something like Choice Specs for similar powerful coverage like Scizor, but on the special side.

    Sorry for the theorymoning, but I really wish GameFreak makes Sylveon awesome and unique, instead of just some terrible joke like poor Flareon and Leafeon who would be decent if they didn't have such a terrible move pool. Just trying to stir up a competitive discussion again.
  6. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    It can't have those stats because its an eeveelution. it will have 130, 110, 95, 65, 65, 60 as its stats in any arrangement. Not sure what gen 6 will be like, but it will need at least 110 base speed to be effective offensively. I'd probably want 95 / 130 / 65 / 60 / 65 / 110 for a bug type, but either way it wouldn't make OU unless it ended up like volcarona (130 in special attack in that case) and got quiver dance and good coverage moves like focus blast and ice beam. Without that, the it could go 130 / 95 / 65 / 60 / 65 / 110 with baton pass + quiver but this is unlikely since it might not even be a bug.
  7. BettaOffDead

    BettaOffDead

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    Yes but with decently powered STAB attacks.

    We need a psysical version ice beam. Weavile would probably be a lot better if it had a physical ice beam equivalent and learned a more powerful physical dark attack...like with 90 base power or more.

    We need some physical gengars, alakazams, azelfs and jolteons with STAB attacks that dont suck. the psyical sweepers in OU are slow compared to the special sweepers.
  8. Cobraroll

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    Many Dark attacks are actually really, really powerful, but only under certain conditions. That is the "flavour" of the Dark type. It's weak when fighting fair, but all about exploiting advantages. Dark moves aren't about hitting powerfully in open combat. They are about playing dirty and taking advantage of the situation to its fullest extent, be it through increased Critical Hit chances (Night Slash), Defense drops (Crunch), Flinching (Bite) or other means (Fling, Payback, Punishment, Beat up...). As far as I can tell at this time of the day (1 in the morning), Faint Attack is the only Dark move that breaks this norm.

    I'm all for stronger physical Ice moves, though. It wouldn't make a whole lot of sense flavour-wise, but as GameFreak is slowly running out of options, they will probably implement it sooner or later.
  9. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    You know what I hope Gen VI will have? Better Fire types. We have a whopping total of 4 OU Fire types, which makes Steel types like Jirachi and Ferrothorn much harder to handle then they could be. First up is Heatran. I fucking love Heatran. His typing is awesome because it gives him a plethora of resistances and an immunity, and on top of that he can effectively run an amazing specially defensive set and a great offensive set. I don't remember the last time I used a hardcore competitive team without Tran because of just how helpful he is. There NEEDS to be more Fire types like Heatran that can still function even in the Rain filled meta game. Volcarona is the next awesome addition to OU 5th gen Fire types that can be one of the most threatening sweepers around, however with the huge 50% damage it takes from Stealth Rocks, its rarely used and can't be relied on to properly check things. It's such a shame, because if Volc only took lets say 25%, he would be a lot more useful and you wouldn't HAVE to run a spinner on your team in order for him to be effective.

    Now for the shit stains of OU Fire types. Ninetails is....Ninetails. Drought is the only reason to use this thing, and that's about it. It doesn't even count as an OU Fire type. If you use this thing on your team solely for coverage, then you need help. Period. Now for Infernape. Normally he wouldn't be nearly as bad if auto rain didn't exist, but because of this his already mediocre attacking power is heavily crippled, making his powerful Flare Blitz and Overheat hurt as much as Ember. Although I wouldn't say that he'd be a LOT better if Rain wasn't around, it's still the main reason why he's just so bad in this current meta game.

    Moral of the story is, GF needs to make Fire types that have enough versatility that makes Rain not completely render them useless. Heatran's got a ton of fire power, and even in the rain Fire Blast still does a ton. He also has great bulk, and can take a hit if he has too, unlike Infernape. There's plenty of Water types that can function even in the face of Sun teams, so why aren't there any Fire types that can say "Fuck you" to Rain as well?
  10. Sacaen

    Sacaen

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    Still keeping my hopes up for a Grass/Fire or Water/Fire type mon for Gen 6 Gary. I think if we got either of those types with a decent stat spread and moveset it could really help to get fire types back on track as both those types could potentially handle rain. Grass/Fire could be an incredible chlorophyll sweeper with something like Growth/Giga Drain/Flamethrower/coverage, akin to venusaur except with a stab AND sun boost for the fire type attack and the ability to run HP Ice. Water/Fire could also be interesting as it could potentially work well as an antiweather mon, being able to take advantage of sun boosted or rain boosted stabs depending on the situation.

    The existance of scald makes me feel that a water/fire type would be more likely, simply because the concept is already layed out. Whereas everytime I think of a grass/fire I think of moses and the burning bush :S and I have no idea how that would translate into a pokemon. They've done crazier stuff though.
  11. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Mad, mad love
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    I COMPLETELY AGREE! I have such high hopes for Fennekin because I can see it becoming a really good Fire type. Most people want it to be Fire/Psychic, but they don't understand the wasted potential there. What we need is this: Fennekin's third form needs to be a Fire/Ground type with either Sheer Force or Adaptability. I could actually see this happening because it's based on a desert-dwelling fox, which is a harsh environment, meaning that either of those abilities would "fit" in my mind. Now Fire/Ground is Stealth Rock neutral, which is really important for an OU Fire type. If it had stats like 70/80/70/109/70/111 (gotta have a troll-y stat spread) and had s strong movepool with things like Fire Blast, Earth power, and maybe Energy Ball or something, I could see it being a major threat, even in a rain-infested metagame. I've done hypothetical calcs of that Pokémon with a Life Orb and it does some serious work, especially in the sun. Obviously a x4 weakness to Water sucks, but I think the rest of it would be worth it, especially if it got good boosting moves.
  12. Hugin

    Hugin

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    The best way to boost OU-Fire types? Grass-type with Drought. Something that means Rain teams lose the weather war against sun. And better spinners, to stop SR. The only way Fire will get boosted is if Rain and Rocks go away. Right now, UU has Victini, Darmanitan, Chandelure, and even Arcanine. Better Fire-types won't suddenly increase the amount of Fire in OU, we've got great Fire-types already and they're down a tier. OU is just incredibly hostile towards Fire, and more power doesn't fix that.
  13. Kidogo

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    Just gonna say that it would be a disaster if a fire-type got chlorophyll. Sun itself has always been the most threatening weather imo (the reason for its lack of popularity is how bad tales is, SR weak fire-types, horrible team-building options), and this would be like the swift swimmers on steroids. Imagine if something like volc got chloro...given that chloro is exclusive to grass-types, it seems unlikely GF would break this rule, and a fire chlorophyller would most likely be instabanned anyway :(.
  14. Bent1ey

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    Fast special attackers are the only thing Psychic and Electric types have going on for them when compared with most other types. Electric pokemon have awful coverage and Psychic is such a poor offensive type that they need to make up for it with extra power. Bringing high offenses and powerful STAB for great offensive types such as Ice sounds pretty power-creepish if you ask me.
  15. manav95

    manav95

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    What we need is a new typing? This typing needs to be something that resists Fighting, and needs to have a bunch of other resistances. That way we have new stall Pokemon that can counter all those ridiculously strong Fighting types in the metagame and bring balance.
  16. Shurtugal

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    we also need to give hydregion nasty plot in gen 6. pls. anything but workup
  17. Wire

    Wire

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    For Sylveon (Thanks Serebii), all Eeveelutions need 130 / 110 / 95 / 65 / 65 / 60 stat spreads so Gary3246's spread is not ever going to happen. I am predicting it to be a Bug-type or Poison-type evolution with the abilities Swarm and Poison Heal, respectively. Here are the stat spreads of the other Eeveelutions which may let us predict this evolution's spread.

    Flareon - 65 / 130 / 60 / 95 / 110 / 65
    Glaceon - 65 / 60 / 110 / 130 / 95 / 65
    Jolteon - 65 / 65 / 60 / 110 / 95 / 130
    Vaporeon - 130 / 65 / 60 / 110 / 95 / 65
    Leafeon - 65 / 110 / 130 / 60 / 65 / 95
    Espeon - 65 / 60 / 65 / 130 / 95 / 110
    Umbreon - 95 / 65 / 110 / 60 / 130 / 65

    These are the stat spreads to our current metagame Eeveelutions. Here is the data collected from them. More Eeveelutions are specially based. Flareon and Lefeon have the crappiest movepools and have a either a poor speed or movepool. Lefeon has Chlorophyll to use on Sun Team but has no way to break through Steels. No pokemon in the HP spread has a 60. Therefore, Sylveon will most likely have a 60 in HP. Well, basically nothing else is found but we know most likely Sylveon will be physically based. Also due to the speed crap lutions Sylveon will have a 110 Speed most likely. For a bug-type STAB, Megahorn would be a great addition but if Gamefreak trolls us by making it specially based agin then there goes, Bug Buzz. Megahorn is a great move for level-up since all the other (most) offensive evolutions get a 120 BP move in-game (ex. Jolteon; Thunder, Vaporeon; Hydro Pump) Espeon has Magic Bounce which is defensive and Flareon sucks so its better as a wish passer. For a poison-type STAB, a new hone claws set could be viable with Gunk Shot and you could have a new Gen VI move such as Acid Whip: BP 100. Hit Steels, 20% to burn (okay that would be a game changing move but very cool). Based on all this data provided Sylveon will most likey be physically based with either a stat spread of 60 / 110 / 65 / 95 / 65 / 130 or 60 / 130 / 95 / 65 / 65 / 110.

    For defensive forms, a bug-type defensive type would be poop. The opposite of Umbreon would be a pile of crap in this metagame. Poison is the leftover viable typing because it gives it the power to wall the Fighting-types in next generation whick will be a deadly force. The cute new form will definetly be a great addition to the upcoming generation.
  18. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    I would actually kill a man for that. Let's see...

    252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Hydreigon (Neutral) Focus Blast vs 252HP/0SpDef Eviolite Chansey (Neutral): 59% - 70% (422 - 498 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Yep, +2 Timid Focus Blast 2HKOs physically defensive Chansey. This way, I wouldn't have to mess with that SubWU garbage I'm trying to get to work (so far it doesn't).
  19. keleyeemoh

    keleyeemoh

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    This isn't exactly true, though the way it breaks through Steels is pretty gimmicky. I have a just-for-fun, not-really-trying-to-win Eeveelution team, and on it, a Leafeon with Swords Dance, Leaf Blade, Return, and Natural Gift. The Leafeon is holding a Watmel Berry, which makes Natural Gift an 80 BP Fire-type attack. I have surprised many a Ferrothorn with this.

    (Also, I guess that makes Natural Gift Fire Flareon's highest BP physical STAB...)
  20. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    Heatran still walls you cold.
  21. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Okay everybody I get the point that my Stat spread may not happen, stop rubbing it in my face XD. I have never used one of the Eeveelutions on a competitive team before other then Jolteon, so I had no idea that they had a certain stat spread. There is one thing though, what makes it so certain that Sylveon HAS to have those Stat spreads? Since Sylveon is getting so much attention and other than the starters and mascots it was the first X and Y Pokemon to be announced, don't you think that Sylveon could possibly be a little different then the rest? No one can predict the future, so completely saying that my Stat spread is impossible since each Eeveelution follows some "code" is not fair at all. Who's to say that Sylveon may be the most powerful Eeveelution of them all? It could be more unique and have it's own stat spread completely different then it's counterparts. Like I said, the fact that it's getting such an early spotlight and being in it's own little movie supports the fact that this Eeveelution could indeed be more unique from the rest, other then the typing of course.

    However if it were to follow the pattern of the other Eeveelutions, I'd have to agree that this 60 / 130 / 95 / 65 / 65 / 110 would most likely be it's stat spread. Basically, a much faster Scizor (if it's Bug type of course). Damn, imagine the power of a STAB U-Turn from this thing coming off of 110 base speed? Dayummm. Scizor's U-Turn is already scary enough, but being able to speed tie with even the Lati twins is incredibly satisfying. In all honesty though, I'd prefer 60 / 110 / 65 / 95 / 65 / 130 because it would be the physical version of Jolteon. Above average power, but amazing speed that out speeds the entire non boosted meta game. I feel like many would use a Jolteon/Sylveon core since they both would produce Volt-Turn and hit hard from both sides of the spectrum. Let's just hope this thing has a good move pool to support it's awesome stats 0_0.
  22. keleyeemoh

    keleyeemoh

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    True. But if you're using a Leafeon against a Heatran, you deserve everything you get.
  23. Wire

    Wire

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    Oh, sorry. I thought you knew that there were codes. Forgive me. Anyways, this was not predicting the future, lol that is impossible, but my best bet to predict the future. Yea, all the Eevee form have crapzooo physical movepools sadly (look what happened to Flareon). Sorry again. Okay, so you said a Sylveon - Jolteon core is good and I would prefer this. Sadly, this will need Volt Switch Forretress because if Sylveon becomes Bug-type then it'll have that nasty SR weakness combine that with LO (ouch) and will need the RS support. Also the core is shut down by Extremespeed D-Nite since Fire Punch KOs Forretress so Jolteon will need to break Multiscale. Jolteon - Sylveon - Forretress is what I would rather prefer.
  24. Cobraroll

    Cobraroll
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    I'm really excited to see what kinds of fun GameFreak will make out of the bag of old tricks. Pokémon is stuffed with "gimmicks" used by only one or two 'mons, or moves and abilities with poor distribution. Stuff that could use some more time in the limelight. Here's an incomplete list of things I wish GameFreak will distribute again:

    Sketch - Let's face it, Sketch is the single best move a Pokémon could have in its movepool. It's so good that it would break any non-Smeargle Pokémon able to learn it. If a Pokémon were given a single chance to learn any move it desires, it would sure create a bunch of interesting options. However, for it not to be broken, it would have to be restricted to one use only (so that you couldn't go Heart Scaling your way to filling your four moveslots of whatever). Single-use Sketch tutor à la FRLG, for instance? Or treating it like Rotom-A's special attack, meaning that you could only learn Sketch again if you traded away the previously Sketched move? This would certainly be fun to play with. It looks like an awesome idea on Necturna, at least.

    No Guard - Machamp and Golurk both make good use of this, but as far as Pokémon go, they are pretty similar and do many of the same things with their unique ability (that is, DynamicPunch and not a lot more). Perhaps it could be given to a special attacker or a status inducer? (and no, I refuse to count Karrablast)

    Flower Gift - Awesome ability, terrible user. Imagine Shaymin, Meganium or even Roserade walking around with this. Neither of them are powerful Physical abusers, but their teammates would send the enemy running for their counter-weather user.

    Illusion - Is that Zoroark you're fighting, or that other completely different 'mon you saw in Team Preview? Or is it even an Illusing Pokémon at all? What if it is the original? Multiple Illusion users would almost make Team Preview useless.

    Transform - For those times you want to turn the tables on your opponent. It is an extra trick to keep up your sleeve. The enemy took out your Garchomp, and now his own is wreaking your team? Now you have one in reserve! Struggling to beat your opponent's Dragon or Ghost sweeper? Here you have one on your own! It would require careful playing to work well, but the ability to swap one of your Pokémon for something completely different would be incredibly cool. Mew can already pull of this (that's not saying it does), but apart from it or Ditto, no Pokémon have been given a chance to try this cool toy since 1996.

    Volt Tacke - there are only three Physical Electric moves with a Base Power greater than 100. Two of them are Bolt Strike and Fusion Bolt, both of which used exclusively by powerful Legendary Pokémon. The third would fit many, many Electric Pokémon flavour-wise, but is instead given to the Pikachu evolution line (which doesn't even use it most of the time). Electivire would appreciate this move. Luxray would. Manectric would. But no, those greedy little rodents keep that move to themselves. Assholes.

    Fiery Dance - Another dance move, and (as far as I'm aware) the only exclusive one. It would be to Fire types what Charge Beam is to Electric types, only better. Imagine this in the hands of Infernape or Moltres (Infernape not so much since the move description explicitly mentions wings). Surely a boon worth giving to other 'mons than Volcarona?

    Meteor Mash - Too awesome a move to restrict to only two fully evolved Pokémon (three if you count an event Deoxys from some time ago). It wouldn't make that much of a difference for most users, but would perhaps see some use as a coverage move. While the 85% accuracy does hurt, the random Attack boosts certainly help.

    Slow Start - Whaaaaat?!? No, really, I'd like to see this again, preferrably in the hands of a more competent user. A decent wall able to hold its own for five turns, forcing the enemy to sacrifice his strategy to force the user out before hell is unleashed. Any user of the ability would by necessity have monstrous stats, but hopefully it wouldn't also have to struggle with Regigigas' movepool. Baton Pass Ingrain and Iron Defense to this monster, and watch the horror on your foe's face as the turn counter dauntlessly creeps towards five.


    Some of these wishes might seem like mindless dreaming, but I have to point out that Drizzle and Drought were once exclusive abilities only given to cover legendaries. The list of signature abilities contains a LOT of asterisks, where previously exclusive abilities have been handed to other users over the years. Stuff like Speed Boost, Rain Dish, Shadow Tag or Magic Guard have spread beyond their "gimmicky" use before. I hope it will happen again.
  25. victinivcreate1

    victinivcreate1

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    Things Gamefreak should give


    Fire/{insert type here} with Chlorophyll

    Forretress evolution with lower defense but higher sp.def (80/125/135)

    Defensive Ground/Steel/ and Ghost/Steel with Levitate

    Zapdos with Hurricane and Calm Mind

    Moxie on more pokemon, Sheer Force on more pokemon

    An Item that boosts NFE pokemon offenses by 1.5 (opposite of Eviolite)

    Technician Electric fighting with access to ice moves (like Ice Shard ice punch), Mach Punch and electric priority

    Offensive Grass with Drought and acesss to Superpower/Close Combat

    MORE DRAGON/FIRE

    Edits:

    4x Stealth Rock weak pokemon with Magic Guard
    Download abusers not named Poryfamily or Genesect

    Ability that negates priority (complete stop to Prankster)

    Good users of Cloud Nine

    More MoldBreaker/Teravolt/Turboblaze abusers
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