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Reflecting on BW and Looking Ahead to Gen VI - SEE POST #508

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Huntofthelion, Jan 8, 2013.

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  1. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!
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    Yeah! i like this! say if the ability Healer was upgraded (admittedly it's pretty bad) to where all pokemon in your party enjoy the effect of healing move percentages increasing a little bit. might make chansey/blissey a bit OP so idk 30% like LO?
  2. Cobraroll

    Cobraroll
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    Now you're seeing patterns. I don't really think GameFreak work that way. They fix what needs to be fixed (in their eyes) and what can be fixed, and they care about in-game WAY more than they care about competitive play. The Pokémon games are sold as fun little RPGs with cool monsters, not as an E-sport. They add some stuff every generation, and if it turns out broken, it will either be fixed in a later game, or be banned from official tournaments. Easy as.

    Well, with every generation comes new abilities, and it would kinda suck if the new ones were restricted to Gen. VI Pokémon just because most previous Pokémon already has three abilities. They don't have to add new abilities, but if they do, I'm quite sure they will distribute them across generations in some way. I wouldn't say a fourth ability is entirely out of the question. Then again, I'd expect them to overhaul the entire ability system at some point, because the abilities would begin piling too much up eventually.
  3. Eleman

    Eleman

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    We don't know what GameFreak is going to do at this point. We already know they are fresh out of ideas (did you look at the new starters?) and this pokemon thing is getting boring even for them. But, we can hope for some changes. Nintendo has been known to improve gameplay with experience so I know they made some changes to the gameplay. We can't try to figure out patterns at this point because remember, these people are doing this for money. With the abilities thing, I personally don't think that new abilities is bad. It's actually good because it makes gameplay more interesting on both the competitive level and in the actual game itself. However, I know that they will add new abilities to ones they haven't yet so be prepared for that. All I can say is that Gen VI will make a huge change on the competitive scene.
  4. Cygnis

    Cygnis

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    Explosion most likely probably won't gain back the 1/2 defenses like other things we wished for. Yes! Freaking hail, has Abomasnow it would be cool if a pokemon had both Drought and Snow Warning like the Fire/Ice type. However, I think it should have some downfalls compared to Ninetales and Abomasnow so it doesn't make weather go to RU hopefully. Fog would be interesting. And yes, the only spinner I use is lame Starmie! The other spinners are stupid have stupid designs and suck and can't get past spin blockers.
  5. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    Explosion going back to its effectively 375 power sounds best as it'd then be viable but encourage most teams to run ghosts/protect. This would maybe nerd stall which I'd hate to do but it'd, imo, make leads viable again.

    A new weather is just no! It'd probably involve evasion so we have to play with surf missing until a suspect comes. It'd also overcomplicate everything and probably bring another load of abusers with hugely-powered moves. This would make both stall and offense really hard to play against a force Pokemon on teams. If nighttime happened and we had dark types who got an ability that increases speed or attack in night then we'd have to pleed that they weren't an absol as otherwise even skarm may fall. And that tailwind suggestion gurantees a specially defensive jirachi on every team. Heatran can't check sun as then we'd have 3 steels so it's just make the metagame very dodgy.

    At least more spinners is good but Idk why feroseed didn't get it as its spinning await spins in its animation and that'd make ferrothorn a god on stall. Ghost steel type with levitate and can spin. Don't overload a Pokemon with amazing things as then it may be broken. I'd want a poke with reliable recovery, say a bulky dragon water with rapid spin and recover, walling weather, spinning and getting good type coverage with its stabs.

    Finally guys what are you thinking about with this Icicle rocks and fire hazards. These would cripple dragons and make them unviable bar that new water dragon I created and kingdra. So what if dragons have good type coverage? We don't want to rid the game of them! Fire whatever would make the ou dragons atm über and then that's definately not good as then rain is also broken and grass and steel are unviable. The extra spinning is making stall have a harder time to as how are they supposed to keep their hazards up with a ground and normal rapid spin? Use Gengar (frail), Mismagius (outclassed), giritina-o (ubers) or drifblm (what?)! That would end stall and now its hyper offence and basically who can setup their op sweaper first. Sounds like a great metagame.

    One final note is crits should not be able to cancel attack drops. It should do double the damage that your base attack vs their +0 defence. Sigilyph is way easier to set up than offensive dd pokes. You set up on a banded terrakions cc then cosmic power they go into rotom and u cosmic power tank a volt switch and at that point if your Terrakion misses stone edge it's gg. And that a banded Terrakion and I'm pretty sure most are scarfed. When building a team I don't go must have a counter to sigilyph and sigilyph can out-phase most phazers anyway. Crits just make people not get gready and stall for ever on people not wanting to forfeit.
  6. MrEon

    MrEon

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    I hope I'm allowed to post this sort of stuff here.
    I wonder what will happen if a new 'mon is released with -
    >Ghost/Fighting type
    >Access to Swords Dance/Mach Punch/Shadow Sneak
    >Technician ability
    >Good base attack stat (120-125)

    And then everyone would use :
    (insert name here) @LO
    Adamant w/ Max Atk and HP(?)
    Technician
    -SD
    -Mach Punch
    -Shadow Sneak
    -a strong STAB move (maybe Close Combat)
    Basically, a Scizor with perfect STAB coverage. Will it go to Ubers?
  7. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    If we're going for overpowered Technician Pokemon, then I have a suggestion...

    > Dragon / Fighting
    > Technician / Inner Focus
    > 85 / 130 / 85 / 80 / 85 / 115

    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Dual Chop
    move 3: Close Combat
    move 4: Mach Punch

    Yep seems legit... it literally OHKOs EVERYTHING in the game with a Jolly nature after a boost and SR... well, except for Champion Metang!
  8. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_ I COULD BE BANNED!

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    A grass-type entry hazard that is mutually exclusive with Stealth Rock would be ideal because it would greatly balance both the OU and Uber tiers.

    Grass is NVE against 3 of the 4 types Rock is SE against (Fire, Flying and Bug).

    It happens to be SE against Politoed, Tyranitar, Kyogre, Groudon and Hippowdown, while being NVE against Abomasnow and Ninetales, who are already weak to SR.

    This means that all the current weather inducers would be weak to only one entry hazard while not being weak (or even resisting) the other one.

    Because of this I'm against the idea of a fire-type entry hazard: if Ninetales and Volcarona suddenly are able to switch in more often, fire definitely doesn't need further help.

    As for Ice, a move like "Ice Spikes" that freezes the next switch in and then it's automatically removed from the field (instead of lasting until spun/absorbed) would be interesting. Fire and Ice types could absorb the spikes like Poison-types do with Toxic Spikes, so it would encourage their usage as well.

    Look I just fixed about half of the problems with the type chart by adding "Stealth Grass" and "Ice Spikes". I should totally work for GF.
  9. G-Von

    G-Von

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    It depends if there are any other defensive threats that get introduced into the metagame that can handle it. Based on the calcs I did at 120 base attack, the only things that do not get 2HKO'd at +2 are certain Dragonite and certain Gyarados because of there abilities and only Dragonite if its base attack is 125. That means all it would have to do is run HP Ice if it doesn't have a physical ice-type move to get past them. Going to +2 shouldn't be hard since it out speeds everything thanks to priority excluding faster priority users, Prankster users, and E-speed.

    What I am trying to say is that this thing would be broken in this metagame and more than likely in generation 6, too.
  10. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    U should totally not work for GF lol. Ice spikes is worse than stealth rocks. A guranteed freeze is just no! Grass things may balance out the meta but they'd be broke like rocks. They both need to be halved imho. They may be fond though but I don't really like the fact that it would make sun>rain as venasaur, heatran and forrestress which are all common sun pokes would love the fact that now they're gonna be able to outlast their counters with ease before spamming op attacks and forrestress and Tentacruel are the best spinners now. This would put huge pressure on spinners and they already are tricky enough to use. I don't want any more hazards but more spinners and more spinblockers.
  11. Aasgier

    Aasgier

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    Yeah, but if you have a move that thaws, like Scald, or just a Fire/Ice type on your team, there should not be anything wrong as they just remove the hazard without anything happening. Pokémon with the Ice Body ability could even regain health upon switch-in while absorbing them, adding more annoyance to the user.

    And maybe Ice Spikes would bring a freeze nerf alongside.

    Freeze is not innately broken. What breaks it, is how it functions at this moment.
  12. TaBuu

    TaBuu

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    How do you guys feel about eliminating Team Preview?
    Do you feel it would make certain Pokemon like Aerodactyl viable in OU again?
  13. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_ I COULD BE BANNED!

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    I'll never accept the idea of a 100% accurate freeze move as "broken" as long as Spore works the way it does right now.

    As for team preview, I hope they get rid of it in the next generation. It's quite possibly the single worst thing to happen to Gen 5.
    Zoroark might go to ubers, though.
  14. dragontamer74pe

    dragontamer74pe

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    If you get frozen you only have a 10% chance of thawing every turn you move. With sleep you can wake up between 2-5 turns and that's a 25% chance to wake up. Definately the sleep mechanics should go back to before gen 5 though as that meant that you could get your asleep poke awake with good plays. Team preview should stay Imo but cancel the ability to switch your pokes as then zoroak wouldnt be able to wreck the metagame and we can still get leads. Imho it's more skillful when you know the other team as you know who you have to eliminate in order to sweap with your sweaper.
  15. TaBuu

    TaBuu

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    I'm leaning a bit towards removing Team preview as it'll really allow certain Pokemon to shine and it really involves more skill. Now those newbies must be careful not to mindlessly send out that Banded Terrakion or that Scarfed Latios. Team Preview will force players to play conservatively, predict and ultimately plan a victory plan before the opponent does.
  16. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Both of the mechanics you mentioned are wrong. You have a 20% chance to thaw out on any given turn, and sleep can only last 1-3 turns and the turn you wake up on is randomly generated.
  17. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    Team Preview needs to stay. Gen 4 was the tipping point; keeping an SDLuke in the wings while the opponent allowed his Gliscor or Hippo to fall all but ensured a sweep, for example. Managing the amount of threats in that metagame was difficult enough, imagine having lacked team preview even in this gen, where the most obscure threat can be viable given the right condition.

    Team Preview has made the game much more chess-like, in my opinion. Being able to see all of their pieces doesn't mean you can suddenly neglect properly executing your own strategy before they do their own.
  18. Katakiri

    Katakiri Listen, Brendan...
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    I completely disagree in just about every way. Gen 5 in its current state would be unplayable without it. The only reason Gen 5 is this lenient (and balanced) with tiers is because you can see a threat in team preview and know which Pokemon you need to keep safe. I would bet real money that Landorus, Terrakion, Keldeo, Wobbuffet, Latias, AND Latios would be banned if team preview didn't exist.

    In Gen 4, it was so common to have a Pokemon fall only to find out that it was the only Pokemon that stops your opponent's not-yet-revealed late-game sweeper. For example, if you let your Jirachi faint because you didn't want anything else to take a heavy hit, oh look! Calm Mind Latias was their last Pokemon; what a shame. Ferrothorn faints; oh look! ...Calm Mind Latias again! Tyranitar faints and oh lookie here; another Latias. Oh hey, you KO'd my Ninetales on-switch with your Hydro Pump; it would be a real shame if I had a Wobbuffet in my back pocket. If you play this game any decent amount, you can imagine what Sheer Force Landorus could do late-game without Team Preview.

    Pokemon was one of the last multiplayer RPGs to give you at least some information about your opponent. Some sort of team preview is absolutely standard in any multiplayer RPG. Some might call Pokemon charming for not doing that for so long, but I call it entirely out-dated especially for an RPG with over 600 characters and even if only half of them are fully-evolved, that is still a ludicrous amount of characters to have no idea which 6 your opponent has.

    To be entirely honest, I think item sprites should (and most likely will) be shown in X & Y's team preview instead of that little box icon that just states the Pokemon has an item. Not having items show up in the party menu is so archaic that the only excuse for it is laziness. Gen 2 and even Gen 3 I can understand not having tiny item sprites due to the size of the screen but this should have been in Gen 4. Having to go into the status menu to see which item my Pokemon has is a waste of time the player's time that has no business even existing. But from a competitive standpoint, with team preview as it is now, there still isn't enough information to form a reliable battle strategy. Again, it's an RPG; strategy is the game. We should be able to have a good idea of what our opponent's sets are and be able to plan accordingly. If one of your Pokemon gets taken out, very rarely should it ever be your opponent's fault. You knew the risk and you took it anyway so it should be your fault. But right now, each Pokemon has 3 good sets they can run, sometimes with completely different checks and counters, and you have to stick your neck out just to figure out which one it is and if you guess wrong, you can end up crippled the entire match. No one should have to employ "Plan C" every single battle, win or lose.

    But I'm gonna stop here cause I think I made my point and I'm just going way off into rant mode.
  19. dcae

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    Completely agree. The sheer power creep of the last generation has made not having Team Preview impossible, and I assure that at least 5 pokemon we have currently would be banned before long, namely Sheer Force Landorus, possibly Zoroark, Terrakion, and the current heavyweights of OU. Team Preview is an absolute necessity now, and should not be removed. I used to favor its removal, but on second thought, I realized how important it is for the game.
  20. BlackLight

    BlackLight

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    Absolutely, Team Preview should stay. That's the only reason that this meta is even playable right now. People complain about how impossible it is to prepare for everything in this meta, that there are simply too many powerful Pokemon to prepare for. Try battling with a hundred new Pokemon and no way of telling what you'll be facing. If Game Freak continues to create a power creep, like they have been doing up until now, one wrong move could easily ruin your entire game, and you have no idea what that wrong move is until your opponent kicks your ass because of it. How you're supposed to prepare for anything is beyond me.
  21. Smilodon

    Smilodon

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    You might add Espeon and Xatu to this list. During BW1 I played sometimes randomly on the Spanish server of PO, where Team Preview wasn't used, and it was impossible to use hazards or status early game.
  22. Jcpdragonx

    Jcpdragonx

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    Without even looking at the skill set, that typing and stat combination will send that Pokemon to Ubers.
  23. The Immortal

    The Immortal Administrator of Showdown!
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    I agree that Team Preview should stay. The number of Pokemon, and as a result threats, are increasing with a new Gen. It would be very difficult to make predictions without Team Preview as you would have to assume everyone's six Pokemon play the same roles, which is obviously not the case.
  24. WillyYourWonka

    WillyYourWonka

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    Wishlist for Gen VI?

    1. Buff to hail in the form of reducing non-Ice type mons Speed by one stage. Hail and snow is really cold so it should affect how fast a mon should move. Fire types would be immune to this affect for obvious reasons.

    2. Dragon/Fighting. Mentioned multiple times already and even if it becomes Ubers, I want to see it happen. STAB Outrage and Close Combat would be an offensive dream.

    3. Reliable defensive spinners with Scrappy

    4. Item that extends Gravity's effect(I find it really underappreciated)
  25. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_ I COULD BE BANNED!

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    You're only agreeing for team preview to stay because you got used to it.
    If it didn't exist, none of you would even suggest that a team preview feature was necessary at this point.

    Using the argument that saving a boosting sweeper as last pokemon can turn the tables of a match is laughable, because you could have a taunt/haze/perish song/ghost curse/encore user under the wings to stop that strategy.

    Likewise saying that a "surprise noob-friendly sweeper" like Terrakion could come in for free and net a free KO at any point in the match is equally stupid because 1. usage statistics are there for a reason, so that you can prepare for common threats and 2. you could also have a Terrakion counter such as Golurk or Nidoqueen under the wings to stop it.
    You can bet that if team preview didn't exist pokemon such as these would be much more common in OU, because they heavily rely on surprise value to do their job.
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