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Regirock (Offensive Tank)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by SuperJOCKE, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    I really want to see this set on site. I prefer this set over any other Regirock set.

    [​IMG]
    Regirock

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Tank
    move 1: Stone Edge
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Drain Punch
    move 4: Thunder Wave / Stealth Rock
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Regirock's stats might scream "defensive wall providing support", this set lets Regirock take advantage of its good Attack stat and the support it provides itself. Drain Punch is a vital part of this set. It allows Regirock to heal damage taken, and works great with its impressive bulk; Drain Punch works even better with Thunder Wave, as it allows Regirock to move first and heal before the opponent can land a blow, potentially ending Regirock. Stone Edge is the mandatory STAB move of choice, while Earthquake hits Fighting- and Steel-types harder than Regirock's other moves. Earthquake is especially useful against Emboar, which can threaten Regirock with Superpower. Stealth Rock is an option over Thunder Wave to provide entry hazard support to the team, and can also be useful for scoring a KO against Pokemon such as Choice Band Emboar.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Rock Slide is a more reliable option for a STAB move, but the power drop is noticeable. Rock Slide paired with Thunder Wave can create the infamous paraflinch combination, which can save Regirock in tough situations. Regirock pairs well with Audino, which can provide cleric support. Leafeon is another great option, as it can deal with both Ground- and Water-types that might threaten Regirock. As Regirock might have trouble healing sometimes, Audino's and Leafeon's Wishes can easily restore Regirock's health, enabling it to continue to put offensive pressure on the opponent. Heal Bell support from the two is also great for Regirock as status will hinder it. Try using a Psychic-type, such as Mesprit and Exeggutor, if you're using Audino, as they can take incoming Fighting-type attacks that hit both Regirock and Audino for super effective damage. Exeggutor can also handle Water- and Ground-types for Regirock thanks to its Grass-typing. A Ghost-type Pokemon such as Misdreavus works great as well, as it is immune to Fighting-type attacks. Entry hazard support is great if Regirock lacks Stealth Rock, as it can secure some needed KOs. Armaldo can provide Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin support, keeping the field clean, while handling Grass-types fairly well for Regirock. Whirlipede and Garbodor have access to both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and threaten most Grass-types as well.</p>
  2. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    Ok, the EV spread might need tweaking, but after sitting for an hour trying to figure it out, either the above spread or the one Zebraiken use seems to be the best ones.

    Zebraiken's spread: 252 HP / 216 Atk / 40 Def
  3. Cherub Agent

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    I honestly find Rock Slide to be a better STAB move, even on the tank set. The fact that you can para-flinch may sound gimmicky, but it's a really effective strategy and the better accuracy and still good power simply make it more reliable. Mabye mention Drain Punch in the AC, since it does a surprising amount of damage with full investment and can provide semi-reliable healing. I've used a set very similar to this in RU and it works wonders.
  4. tennisace

    tennisace another eggnog, please
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    This spread is already mentioned in the AC of the current analysis, so what exactly does it have over the current listed set (which has the same moves basically)?
  5. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    Didn't see that spread in the AC. Anyways, decide what I should with this.
  6. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    Ok, by having a convo with Zebraiken, I have made some adjustments to the set:

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Stone Edge
    move 2: Drain Punch
    move 3: Thunder Wave
    move 4: Earthquake / Stealth Rock
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    Changes:
    -To make it less similar to the Support set, I've added a more offensive approach to the set, by Regirock taking more advantage of Thunder Wave itself.
    -Drain Punch for the nice healing factor, does differentiate this set from the Support one.
    -Slashed Earthquake before Stealth Rock now. Earthquake and Drain Punch covers about the same Pokémon, so you could option for Stealth Rock instead for more support, for example, if your team lack Stealth Rock, while keeping Drain Punch's healing factor. Earthquake is just a more powerful option when you don't need to heal.
    -Since Regirock often cathces the opponent with TW, Drain Punch does work; healing before the opponent hits Regirock that is.
    -If Regirock should be used early on or late-game, I don't know yet, I'm testing this set in this moment.
    -What I have noticed is that, with the right support, this functions pretty well. I haven't been testing any screen support yet, but that should only make this better. Entry hazards, Wish, and cleric support work wonders for Regirock.
    -The AC looks about the same. Removing Toxic and Rest might be a good idea, but Rock Slide is still AC material (asked Zeb what he thought about a Rock Slide slash, but he said it's AC at best)

    But, Zebraiken adviced me to collect logs to show this sets effectiveness; which I'm doing right now. It could take awhile to aquire the perfect logs, but I just wanted you to know what I'm doing with this now.
  7. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    I still don't really think this is different enough from the Support set that it deserves more than an extended AC mention, even if logs prove it to be good (it is). They actually play in a very similar way and I don't really see why it needs its own set.
  8. sandshrewz

    sandshrewz POTATO
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    I actually quite like this set. It's way more offensive than the support regirock. This Regi rocks! (ok bad joke ._.) I like this way more than the defensive variant. It still can check the usual stuff it can and Drain Punch is really awesome. It says hi to Absol etc. I like how it maintains it offensive presence while actually supporting the team. So it isn't totally deadweight to the team. This Regirock actually beats the standard Regirock thanks to Drain Punch. Whether it can be used early or late game doesn't really matter to me. Early game it can provide Twave support and late game it can still check whatever you need it to. Drain Punch + Wish support (Leafeon for me) keeps it pretty healthy.

    So it isn't really a clone of the Support set, but it can actually deal damage when you need it to. Will provide logs if I manage to get some good battles. (Finding NU matches are hard D:)
  9. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    I'm not arguing that this set is bad, just that it's close enough to the support set that there shouldn't be two on-site. The defensive set plays pretty similarly. You can argue that Drain Punch and max Attack are viable; they are. You can even argue that they're better than the standard defensive Regirock, and that's certainly a debate I'm unsure about and want to see more of. But the two sets play similarly enough and have close enough movesets that there's little point putting two sets on site; whichever one is deemed better should be the main spread, and then the other deserves significant discussion in AC.
  10. sandshrewz

    sandshrewz POTATO
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    Actually I feel that they play differently. Or it's just me. :x

    But the standard support set is really weak offensively. It does nothing other than Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave everywhere while this one can actually deal good damage to most opponents. I play this one more aggressively than the normal one. And it's still pretty good both offensively and defensively. I think it's better to deslash Stealth Rock and put it in AC. Regirock is usually better off Twaving everything and attack; leave Stealth Rock to a teammate. Well, they play differently enough for me >.> The standard one, really leaves no room to go on the offense. This one is sort of a tinkerbell or something... This should be enough to differentiate the 2 I guess? Although this one has a harder time taking special hits >.>
  11. SuperJOCKE

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    Yeah, I wasn't even planning on having SR on that "new version". I think de-slashing it makes it even more different and like sandz said, SR can be left another teammate. I prefer Earthqauke anyways.

    btw, agreeing with sandz all the way.
  12. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Even if this were a separate set, it should still have Stealth Rock. Regirock is a great user of it, doesn't lose much by giving up the moveslot, and there aren't really enough good SR users to make it a worthwhile luxury.

    But yeah, I would argue that the more defensive set can also be played fairly aggressively.

    I'd like to see another member of QC weigh in on this (and on whether 252 Atk should be the main spread on the existing Regirock anlysis). I'm also going to go and test it myself a bit later on, which I've been meaning to do for a while.
  13. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken GANONBOARF
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    So, my opinion? I strongly believe that this set is superior to every set currently listed in the written analysis. Looking back over it, I really don't know why it even runs 252 HP / 252 SpD. What does Regirock live with that extensive investment? Barely making it through a Gorebyss Surf, maybe? But I mean, then again, if you're trying to tank Surfs with Regirock you're doing it wrong.

    I've talked extensively with SuperJOCKE on IRC about this. While I am not sure that this deserves a separate analysis to itself, I'm pretty solidly sure that a Regirock with Attack investment is far better than one with SpD investment. It already has a ton of physical bulk with just 252 HP, and really I can't think of many specially-based threats Regirock is going to try to handle. 252 HP / 252 Atk is the best way to go imo.

    As far as the set goes, Thunder Wave and Stone Edge are clearly necessities. I haven't been playing a whole lot of NU lately but I have been using this set, and at least in ten matches, I've been able to paralyze enough shit on the switch to actually get in a late-game Regirock sweep. Yes, STAB Stone Edge hurts off of a base 100 Attack stat. Rock Slide misses less often (and has a chance to give you that famous paraflinch hax) but Regirock can actually harm things with Stone Edge. The only moves I am unsure about are the combination of SR, Earthquake, and Drain Punch. I've been using SR and Earthquake, and when the mention that this set was very similar to the SpD set in the analysis came up, SuperJOCKE pointed out Drain Punch. This set actually makes significantly better use of Drain Punch than any other simply because it's not coming off of an uninvested Attack stat, and actually gains semi-reliable recovery through doing so, something no other set can do (except RestTalk??). Slashing SR behind either Drain Punch or Earthquake would be the best way to go about this, imo; while Regirock is indeed very effective at setting SR, so are many other Pokemon, and I do believe that Regirock is nearly unparalleled in its ability to paralyze everything and actually provide some offensive pressure after doing so. I doubt that it's enough to transform this enough to be a set on its own, but I do believe a more directly offensive Regirock needs to be mentioned.
  14. sandshrewz

    sandshrewz POTATO
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    Loggy~ (oh and from turn 26 onwards, though my Regirock did come out but didn't manage to do much because I didn't expect Taunt :x)

    Anyway, that guy used this Regirock just like I did. He had the SR + Twave version. I use the EQ + Rock Slide one. Both our Regirock were pretty crucial to each of us. His nearly pulled a late game sweep while mine had to check his Swellow (granted he used it pretty badly...) Oh and I'm certain it's the max Attack EV variant by damage output. Regirock without investment doesn't even hurt. If he Stone Edged Leafeon at the right time instead of Drain Punching it, his Regirock could have swept me since my own Regi was low on health >.> Drain Punch max Atk Regirock is really a nuisance to take down. It just keeps healing and Twave slows the opponent down. With good support, this Regi can pull off a late game sweep like shown here or further support the team while keeping an offensive presence. This thing should have a set on its own. The standard support one is too dead weight. It can still check what it usually does (bar random Gorebyss Surf). The standard one is more of a wall / support Pokemon just like Tank Camerupt etc. It hardly poses a threat. This Regirock is actually a threat by itself and has enough to differentiate itself from the full support set.

    For me, Thunder Wave and Drain Punch are mandatory and they make this set unique. Regirock is a defensive threat to begin with, and this set turns it into an offensive threat as well. I find myself accidentally sweeping with it once in a while and saving my neck.

    This set should be a set on its own because it is an entirely different threat. Usual Regirock checks might no longer be a check to this set thanks to Thunder Wave, Drain Punch, and Stone Edge. Just an example, the Leafeon I was using can usually check other Regirock but I had a horrid time just trying to nail this set. And invested Drain Punch hurts to the point that Regirock can regain quite an amount of health in the match, reducing the reliance on Wish support etc.

    TL;DR
    • this is an entirely different threat
    • it can sweep late game
    • it can still do it usual roles (twave, SR, check some usual threats)
    • invested attacks coming off from base 100 Attack actually hurts
    • many times more offensive and durable than the standard support set

    Ok, hope this gets approved. I really like this set a lot. Anyway, time for QC to weigh in...

    edit: Oh and about the late game or early game thing, early game it mainly supports the team and check some threats such as swellow, and still can remain pretty healthy thanks to drain punch. Late game, it's possible to sweep since Thunder Wave makes foes slower than Regirock :P

    Also, this set would be even better if Sturdy is released. Too bad it isn't yet :/
  15. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    There are two things I disagree with here. I've been using SpD Regirock for virtually the entire round and I haven't been disappointed. You can actually play it surprisingly aggressively and it takes on a huge number of special threats. Camerupt Earth Power doesn't 2HKO. Rotom-S can't touch it. Perhaps most importantly, it can switch into Magmortar. That's a pretty big deal; there isn't much else that can do that for offensively-minded teams. The special defense gives Regirock a lot of advantages. (More attack power, however, is also very helpful).

    The second thing is regarding Stealth Rock. There are surprisingly few good users of the move in NU, and not many of them synergise particularly well with Regirock or the kind of team that Regirock works well on. Moreover, none of them enjoy giving up the moveslot either. Regirock is a really good user of Rocks and I think any set that doesn't really, really need all four moves - ResTalk Curse, for example, obviously does - should have it on.

    This set looks much better as:
    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Drain Punch / Earthquake
    move 4: Thunder Wave
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

    This is very similar to the analysis Regirock. Despite what you say, the more defensive version can be played in exactly the same way. I don't really think it should be its own set, and the part I bolded suggests that Zebraiken feels the same way.

    I will say that it's fairly urgent that we discuss getting some of this stuff into the analysis with Shnen and the QC team.
  16. tennisace

    tennisace another eggnog, please
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    After reading over these posts, I think that it pretty clearly should be two different sets. This one should be named Offensive Tank, while the other one should be named Support. Stealth Rock should be AC on the offensive tank set, or in the last slash, and Earthquake should be given its slot to further differentiate the set. This is because the sets listed on-site are merely a guideline; if you personally want to run SR then nobody is stopping you. I do agree that this set plays more offensively and the extra power helps, but the defensive one is useful for dealing with things like Magmortar easier.

    So: I'm going to upload the other Regirock if nobody has objections to that. Then, this will go through QC as normal and be written up as normal, and will be added to the uploaded analysis on-site as the first set.

    Changes to be made for a QC stamp:
    Change name to Offensive Tank
    Change moveset to:
    -Stone Edge
    -Earthquake
    -Drain Punch
    -Thunder Wave / Stealth Rock
    Focus on this set's offensive attributes, as in add some relevant damage calculations on common things switching into Regirock.
    Mention if you're not running SR it appreciates hazards to do some more damage.

    ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
  17. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
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    i agree with the tennis man
  18. SuperJOCKE

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    Ok, thanks tennis. I changed the moveset and will add SC and AC ASAP, with calcs.
  19. SuperJOCKE

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    Ok, I've added SC and AC. But if calcs are that necessary, could you mention what the most common things that switch in are?

    Also, I would rather see Stealth Rock in AC though. I Thunder Wave is too important imo.

    (Sorry for doubleposting)
  20. tennisace

    tennisace another eggnog, please
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  21. Omicron

    Omicron
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    QC APPROVED (2/3)

    Beep
  22. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken GANONBOARF
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    QC APPROVED 3/3

    badap
  23. SuperJOCKE

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    Ok, thanks guys.

    I'll write this up ASAP.
  24. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Deleting...
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    Written, ready for GP checks.
  25. sandshrewz

    sandshrewz POTATO
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    remove add comments

    REGI ROCKS!! :D (open)

    [SET]

    name: Offensive Tank
    move 1: Stone Edge
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Drain Punch
    move 4: Thunder Wave / Stealth Rock
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Regirock's stats might scream "defensive wall providing support", this set lets Regirock take advantage of its good Attack stat and the support it provides itself. Drain Punch is a vital part of this set. It allows Regirock to heal damage taken, and works great with its impressive bulk; Drain Punch works even better with Thunder Wave,
    as it allows Regirock to move first and heal before the opponent potentially can deals land a final blow. Stone Edge is the mandatory STAB move of choice, while Earthquake hits Fighting- and Steel-types harder than Regirock's other moves. Earthquake is especially useful against Emboar, which can threaten Regirock with Superpower. extra explanation if you want :) Stealth Rock is an option over Thunder Wave to provide entry hazard support to the team, while it can be and can also be useful for scoring a KO against Pokemon such as Choice Band Emboar.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Rock Slide is a more reliable option for a STAB move, but the powerdrop is noticeable. Rock Slide paired with Thunder Wave can create the infamous paraflinch combination, which can save Regirock in tough situations. Regirock pairs well with Audino who can provide cleric support. Leafeon is another great option, as it can deal with both Ground- and Water-types that might threaten Regirock. As Regirock might have trouble healing sometimes, Audino's and Leafeon's Wishes can easily restore Regirock's health, enabling it to continue to put offensive pressure on the opponent. Heal Bell support from the two is also great for Regirock as status will greatly hinder it. Try using a Psychic-type Pokemon
    , such as Mesprit and Exeggutor, if you're using Audino, such as Mesprit and Exeggutor, as they can take incoming Fighting-types attacks that hit both Regirock and Audino for super effective damage. Exeggutor can also handle Water- and Ground-types for Regirock thanks to its Grass-typing. A Ghost-type Pokemon such as Misdreavus works great as well as it is immune to Fighting-type attacks. Entry hazard support is great if Regirock lacks Stealth Rock, as it can secure some needed KOs. Armaldo can provide Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin support, keeping the field clean, while handling Grass-types fairly well for Regirock. Whirlipede and Garbodor can provide have access to both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, while being able to and can also threaten most Grass-types as well.</p>


    I <3 this set
    [​IMG]
    GP Approved 1/2

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