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Remoraid (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by franky, Oct 24, 2009.

  1. franky

    franky
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    Status: FINISHED

    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/remoraid

    [​IMG]

    ________________________________________________________________

    <p>Remoraid is a tremendous offensive threat, thanks to its phenomenal movepool and good offensive stats on both ends. Remoraid also has pretty decent Speed, allowing it to become a deadly Choice Scarf user. Although Remoraid suffers from paper-thin defenses and lacks a priority move, its overall offensive prowess makes up for it. All in all, Remoraid could fit on teams that require great offensive pressure on the opponent.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Scarf
    move 1: Water Spout
    move 2: Surf
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Grass
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Sniper
    nature: Timid
    evs: 240 SpA / 236 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Remoraid is quite lucky because it's one of the few Pokemon that learn Water Spout - the strongest Water-type move in the game at full health. Choice Scarf Remoraid speed ties with other prominent Choice Scarf users who linger at the 25 Speed mark, such as Houndour and Mankey. Remoraid is often compared to its fellow Water Spout user Wailmer, who has more HP. However, Wailmer does not reach 25 Speed with a Choice Scarf boost, making Remoraid a great alternative if you want that extra speed. In the remaining slots, Surf serves as a reliable STAB attack, Ice Beam strikes Grass-types, and Hidden Power provides coverage. Hidden Power Ground hits Chinchou and Croagunk, while Hidden Power Grass hits opposing Water-types.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Water Spout is Remoraid's primary attack, as it hurts everything in LC that isn't resistant or immune to it; when Remoraid is at full health, it has a whopping 150 Base Power. However, the Base Power of Water Spout depends on the percentage of Remoraid's HP remaining. Any form of damage, such as Stealth Rock, will weaken the power of Water Spout. As such, it's best to use Remoraid in the lead slot or bring it out early to keep its HP in mint condition.</p>

    <p>Surf acts as an emergency STAB attack in case Remoraid fails to keep its HP intact. Ice Beam hits Grass-types, such as Paras, for super effective damage, and Croagunk, who would otherwise wall this set, for neutral damage. The choice for the final slot depends on what your team needs Remoraid to hit. Hidden Power Ground smashes Croagunk and Chinchou, who may attempt to come in on your STAB attack. On the other hand, Hidden Power Grass hits Wooper and opposing bulky Water-types for super effective damage.</p>

    <p>Remoraid, even if it has taken Stealth Rock damage, can 2HKO Munchlax with Stealth Rock down, dealing a maximum of 54.55% with Water Spout. As such, Gastly makes an excellent partner; because Remoraid can potentially lure in and KO Munchlax, giving Gastly more freedom to sweep late-game. Elekid also functions as a great late-game cleaner once your opponent's team is significantly weakened. Defensively, a two-man core of Gligar and Munchlax, makes a good addition alongside Remoraid. Croagunk and Mantyke are common Pokemon immune to Water-type attacks; Gligar can check Croagunk to a good degree, while Munchlax can 2HKO Mantyke with Return. Rain Dance teams work well with Remoraid, as Rain Dance negates possible hail and sandstorm damage, which strip Remoraid of its precious HP. Rain Dance also boosts Water Spout's damage output, making Remoraid even more destructive.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical
    move 1: Waterfall
    move 2: Seed Bomb
    move 3: Return
    move 4: Water Spout / Substitute
    item: Choice Scarf / Choice Band
    ability: Hustle
    nature: Jolly / Naive
    evs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Remoraid has a great physical movepool, a respectable Attack stat, and the ability Hustle, which boosts its Attack by 50%. Take note that Hustle's side effect reduces Remoraid’s accuracy by 20%, which means that normally 100% accurate moves are now 80% accurate. With Choice Band and Hustle, and Remoraid's Attack climbs to an outstanding 36, which is equivalent to Choice Band Cranidos’s. With the right support, Remoraid makes an excellent physical sweeper, despite its lack of priority moves. Waterfall hits any Pokemon who doesn’t resist it incredibly hard anything. Seed Bomb hits opposing Water-types, Return smacks Water Absorbers for neutral damage, and Water Spout bluffs a specially based set.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A boosted Waterfall is incredibly hard to switch into, because something is bound to lose a sizable chunk of its HP if your opponent is not packing a Water Absorber. Seed Bomb complements Waterfall, as it hits Water-types for super effective damage. Return rounds off the coverage, smashing Croagunk and Paras trying to gain HP with Dry Skin. The last slot depends on what item Remoraid is running. Water Spout works well with Choice Band or Choice Scarf, as it helps bluff a specially based set. This attracts special walls like Munchlax the next time around, allowing Remoraid to OHKO them with Waterfall. If Remoraid is running Life Orb, Substitute is the preferred choice in order to block priority hits that would otherwise spell doom for Remoraid, due to its paper-thin defenses.</p>

    <p>There are plenty of options to choose from for the item slot, depending on what your team needs. Choice Band provides instant power to hurt almost anything on the switch. Choice Scarf boosts Remoraid's Speed, while still letting it hit hard with 24 Attack, thanks to Hustle. Lastly, Life Orb adds more freedom, but doesn’t let Remoraid hit as hard as it would with a Choice Band boost.</p>

    <p>Remoraid doesn't really have any sure-fire counters; your best bet is to try to eliminate things that hinder its sweep, such as priority users and Water Absorb Pokemon. Priority moves plague the LC metagame, so it’s generally hard to eliminate every priority user. Meowth, Croagunk, and Dratini, are common priority users; as such, defensive Gligar will work great alongside Remoraid to check these threats. In addition to this, Gligar also has Stealth Rock to help Remoraid sweep. Water Absorbers, like Mantyke, Croagunk, and Paras, will usually slow down Remoraid's sweep for the most part, because they prevent it from using its primary STAB move. As with the first set, Munchlax and Gligar can wall these Pokemon nicely, so be sure to pack them.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mix Scarf
    move 1: Waterfall
    move 2: Water Spout
    move 3: Seed Bomb
    move 4: Fire Blast
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Hustle
    nature: Naughty
    evs: 240 SpA / 236 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Remoraid can run a mixed set effectively because of its ability, Hustle. With the suggested EV spread, Remoraid reaches 21 Attack, 16 Special Attack, and 24 Speed - enough to deal a respectable amount of damage on both ends. This set has excellent coverage, thanks to Water Spout, Fire Blast and Seed Bomb, and can be an effective sweeper late-game. Waterfall is the crux of the set, as it smashes unprepared Munchlax and other special walls that may be lured in by Remoraid's special attacks. </p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Waterfall is Remoraid's main physical STAB move, while Water Spout is Remoraid's main special STAB move. Water Spout is excellent early in the game, when Remoraid's HP is in mint condition. The final two move slots provide great coverage along with its STAB moves. Seed Bomb allows Remoraid to hit Water-types for super effective damage, while Fire Blast hits Grass-types and Croagunk who attempt to absorb Remoraid's Water-type moves. However, if Dragon-types, such as Dratini, are more important, Ice Beam is another option.</p>

    <p>Bringing a defensive Gligar alongside Remoraid can help check many priority moves directed at Remoraid's poor Defense stat. Gligar can provide Stealth Rock as well, helping Remoraid sweep more efficiently. Munchlax can deal with a portion of the Water Absorbers, who can switch in freely on Remoraid's main moves. Offensively, Elekid works great as a late-game sweeper once the opponent's team has taken a great deal of damage.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>For defensive partners, defensive Gligar and Munchlax should suffice, as they handle a number of threats to Remoraid. Gligar not only checks threats, but also has Stealth Rock in its arsenal to help Remoraid sweep more easily. Munchlax can comfortably check many specially inclined Water Absorb threats, such as Mantyke.</p>

    <p>Since Remoraid will function on offensive teams for the most part, it can pair well with many Pokemon who benefit from its ability to shred through teams. Elekid is an excellent partner, as it can potentially finish off every single Pokemon Remoraid dents late-game. If using the Special Scarf set, Gastly can take advantage of Remoraid luring in Munchlax. Once Munchlax is removed from the match, Gastly can sweep easily. Rain Dance teams fit in with Remoraid as well, as the rain boosts its STAB moves to incredible heights.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Remoraid's offensive movepool is incredibly broad, so it has many options. Flamethrower is a good option over any set that is using Fire Blast to provide more accuracy. Gunk Shot could provide a way to hit Grass-types, as it packs 120 Base Power, but it is very inaccurate. Psychic is another option to OHKO Croagunk. Charge Beam can also work in order to boost Remoraid's Special Attack.</p>

    <p>Support-wise, Remoraid has Thunder Wave in its arsenal to cripple faster threats on the switch. This way, Remoraid can hold Life Orb instead of Choice Scarf to provide more flexibility. Lock On is also an interesting option in conjunction with Hustle to provide 100% accuracy on Remoraid's next hit.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>There really aren't any specific counters to Remoraid, but there are several checks to it. First and foremost, Water Absorbers, such as Paras, Mantyke, and Croagunk, can slow it down. Priority users, such as Dratini and Meowth, can OHKO Remoraid most of the time with Stealth Rock down. For the Special Scarf set, Munchlax can check it for the most part if it hasn’t taken too much damage.</p>
  2. umbarsc

    umbarsc

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    I don't get this. Are you saying that there's going to be a new Water move implemented that will be stronger than Water Spout? Or are you saying that it's the strongest coming from Remoraid? It's not really clear so you should change it. You should say something more about how it's the strongest in the game when the user has full health.
  3. Mountain Dewgong

    Mountain Dewgong

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  4. franky

    franky
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    thank you added them in.
  5. deimos

    deimos

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  6. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I know it's a WIP, but I just wanted to make sure you were also going to include a Physical Scarfer as well, and re-name the first set "special Scarf" or something :).

    Physical Scarf Remoraid is very very underrated. It can OHKO a shit-ton of Pokemon with it's perfect neutral coverage and Seed Bomb to hit the bulky waters that Double-Edge might not KO. I think it gets to something like 24 Spe and 22 Atk with Hustle? That's good by any standards, especially on a water type.
  7. franky

    franky
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    Was planning on doing that already.

    Edit: Added physical sweeper.
  8. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I just want to point out that Choice Band and Life Orb Remoraid are barely viable unless being used as a BP Speed recipient.

    Choice Scarf is needed to make Remoraid fast enough to actually abuse his monstrous attack stat.
  9. franky

    franky
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    I did some extensive ladder before typing up the set yesterday. I decided to battle today and save some logs to show its effectiveness. Its not handpicked, just gonna save each game i use remo. I'll be editing this post to add some more, stay tuned

    Code:
    Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause, Little Cup Clause
    Raseri sent out Omanyte (lvl 5 Omanyte ?).
    typhoon89 sent out Meowth (lvl 5 Meowth ?).
    Meowth used Fake Out.
    It's not very effective...
    Omanyte lost 25% of its health.
    Omanyte flinched!
    ---
    Omanyte used Hydro Pump.
    Meowth lost 100% of its health.
    typhoon89's Meowth fainted.
    ---
    typhoon89 switched in Munchlax (lvl 5 Munchlax ?).
    Omanyte used Hydro Pump.
    Munchlax lost 48% of its health.
    Munchlax used Earthquake.
    It's super effective!
    Omanyte lost 75% of its health.
    Raseri's Omanyte fainted.
    ---
    Lezowski has entered the room.
    Raseri switched in Ekans (lvl 5 Ekans ?).
    Ekans's intimidate cut Munchlax's attack!
    typhoon89 switched in Gligar (lvl 5 Gligar ?).
    Ekans used Gunk Shot.
    It's not very effective...
    Gligar lost 43% of its health.
    ---
    Raseri switched in Shellos (lvl 5 Shellos ?).
    Gligar used Earthquake.
    Shellos lost 63% of its health.
    Shellos's Oran Berry restored health!
    Shellos restored 37% of its health.
    ---
    typhoon89 switched in Remoraid (lvl 5 Remoraid ?).
    Shellos used Ice Beam.
    It's not very effective...
    Remoraid lost 20% of its health.
    ---
    Raseri switched in Makuhita (lvl 5 Makuhita ?).
    Remoraid used Substitute.
    Remoraid lost 25% of its health.
    Remoraid made a substitute!
    Makuhita was burned!
    ---
    Remoraid used Waterfall.
    Makuhita lost 100% of its health.
    Raseri's Makuhita fainted.
    Remoraid lost 10% of its health.
    ---
    Raseri switched in Shellos (lvl 5 Shellos ?).
    Remoraid used Seed Bomb.
    It's super effective!
    Shellos lost 74% of its health.
    Raseri's Shellos fainted.
    Remoraid lost 10% of its health.
    ---
    Raseri switched in Dratini (lvl 5 Dratini ?).
    Dratini used Outrage.
    Dratini went on a rampage!
    The substitute took damage for Remoraid!
    Remoraid's substitute faded!
    Remoraid used Return.
    A critical hit!
    Dratini lost 100% of its health.
    Raseri's Dratini fainted.
    Remoraid lost 10% of its health.
    ---
    Raseri switched in Ekans (lvl 5 Ekans ?).
    Ekans's intimidate cut Remoraid's attack!
    Remoraid used Waterfall.
    Ekans lost 100% of its health.
    Raseri's Ekans fainted.
    Remoraid lost 10% of its health.
    ---
    Raseri switched in Magnemite (lvl 5 Magnemite).
    Magnemite used Flash Cannon.
    It's not very effective...
    Remoraid lost 15% of its health.
    typhoon89's Remoraid fainted.
    ---
    typhoon89 switched in Munchlax (lvl 5 Munchlax ?).
    Magnemite used Flash Cannon.
    Munchlax lost 35% of its health.
    Munchlax's Oran Berry restored health!
    Munchlax restored 32% of its health.
    Munchlax used Fire Punch.
    It's super effective!
    Magnemite lost 100% of its health.
    Raseri's Magnemite fainted.
    typhoon89 wins!
    Raseri: gg
  10. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    That log proves that Remoraid can set up a substitute on a Shellos (it actually can't, but your opponent played horrendously anyway). Unfortunately, that proves nothing.

    If you want to convince me otherwise, then I'd probably get logs against respectable-ish looking opponents.
  11. franky

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    Yeah, like I said I'm picking the games I play so far thats my first. I'll get some more the next few days. From my previous battles yesterday, I can get the Substitute down on a given time, but Hustle's accuracy is really the downside of the set. Luck plays a huge factor on the physical set, oh well.
  12. Banryu

    Banryu

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    While I totally agree with this, you can't overlook the side-effect of the ability that gives Remoraid such a high Attack stat-- the drop in accuracy that makes all of Remoraid's 100% accuracy physical attacks hit as often as Stone Edge (which I know a lot of people john about for its miss hax) and less accurate moves hit even less often. This is an extremely viable set that should be acknowledged, but you should also mention, Franky, the high risk that is run with the reduced accuracy of the entire set.

    Also, it might be worth mentioning Water Spout on the Hustle-Scarf set, since it gives Remoraid a fail-safe 100% accurate move to throw out, even with Hustle. Or, you could mention Hustle-Scarf + Water Spout as a separate, mixed set.
  13. franky

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    Took your advice Banryu. Bounce was a waste of move, especially with Hustle. I added in Water Spout, so new material is added on the set. Grammar check if needed before I work on the rest of the analysis.
  14. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I thought Hustle effected ALL moves. Can someone confirm this?
  15. Garganator

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    Well on Smogon it says that Hustle only affects physical moves.

    Hustle
    Pokémon with this ability do 50% more damage with physical attacks, but physical attacks have 20% less accuracy. When a Pokémon with this ability is first in the party, wild encounters with higher level Pokémon have a higher chance of occurring.

    So yeah, it only boosts physical moves.

    But yeah, I admit it that for example on serebii.net it's not clearly said that it only boost physical moves, so some mistake is still possible.
  16. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Ah, ok that's good then. Mixed Remoraid could actually be pretty cool with a bunch of SpA EVs and just using Hustle to improve attack.
  17. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Hmm, I'm not seeing it added, though... I agree with Heysup in that the Physical (or mixed) set would be far superior with the option of Choice Scarf, although I feel that the results you gave us ARE somewhat impressive despite the poor playing of the opposing Shellos... at the very least it demonstrates Remoraid's power.

    So you're adding the Scarf set later, Franky, is that it?
  18. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    I can attest to Hustle being pretty solid. I personally wouldn't use it alongside some of Remoraid's less accurate moves, but having a physical equivalent of Hydro Pump as well as access to the equivalent of Power Whip for hitting Water-types (AND WOOPER LOL) lets a mixed Remoraid hit some notable foes. Just stay away from Rock Blast, Gunk Shot, and Bounce.

    Final set should be Waterfall / Seed Bomb / Ice Beam / Flamethrower (fire blast ?_?) @ (insert item here, maybe lo or choice scarf or something).

    It's too bad that all of Remoraid's stats end in 5.
  19. franky

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    I'll whip up a Mix Scarf (the most effective I tested so far!) set. Though I'm busy its gonna take longer than usual. I've been using Ice Beam / Waterfall / Seed Bomb / Hidden Power Ground with Scarf. I'll remove mentions of Choice Scarf on the physical set, and add it to a new one.
  20. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    Why not Water Spout, Ice Beam, Seed Bomb, and Return or something? Or even Dual STAB with Waterspout and Waterfall.

    If yours work better, go ahead, but I liked using these :) Nothing could switch in AND it revenges stuff.
  21. Banryu

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    I agree with Heysup... Water Spout, Seed Bomb, Return, and Water Spout (or maybe Fire Blast like SDS said) with Scarf and Hustle would probably make the best overall Remoraid set.

    I need to start working with it again, I think I gave up too easily the first time...
  22. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    To be honest, I'm not sure what Fire Blast is fully for, but I don't support Water Spout in the least. Having a move that gets weaker every time you switch in and basically guarantees that you won't be able to pack Life Orb really sucks.

    Return is a possibility, and Ice Beam helps against random stuff that might be able to survive your physical attacks (or to pick off an opponent than you need to eliminate with 100% certainty). However, IIRC Fire Blast does truckloads to Bronzor, which isn't hit quite as hard by Waterfall considering its tendency to run more Defense than Special Defense.

    I'd go with Waterfall / Seed Bomb / Ice Beam / Surf or Fire Blast or Substitute personally, but that's just me. Water Spout is overrated, especially when its main immunity has the tendency to ruin you.

    Also, comedy Charge Beam set? After a Charge Beam boost, I would expect that Remoraid could do some massive damage, and its coverage is pretty impeccable. It also gives coverage against Mantyke, which is nice.
  23. franky

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    It seems like Mix Scarf could be added into "Special Scarf" which could be renamed to Choice Scarf cause' I found that the comments was were too similar to Special Scarf. I'll just add in some slash and add an extra paragraph or two mentioning mix scarf.
  24. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Remoraid was brought up on #littlecup and we worked out a mix scarf set that looks very promising, Water Spout / Waterfall / Seed Bomb / Fire Blast @ Choice Scarf. With Hustle and 236 SpA / 236 Spe Naughty it hits 21 Atk, 16 SpA, and 24 Spe.

    I disagree with SDS that Water Spout is a bad idea on this set because it grows weaker, if anything this set can afford losing power on its main STAB move much more because Hustle boosted Waterfall is ready to take its place later in the game. WS allows you to hit hard without having a large chance of missing and Waterfall takes over as a powerful sweeping move when WS becomes too weak, they compliment eachother perfectly.

    The other moves are to keep Water resisters at bay, Seed Bomb blows any water type out of the water and Fire Blast stops Croagunk or Grass types from coming in easily. Ice Beam would take down Dragons who resist the rest of the moveset, but I can't see it being worth replacing any of the other moves for it as the only common Dragon, Dratini, is 2KOd by Waterfall 80% of the time anyway (well, less with the poor acc).

    Its different from special scarf in three moves, EV spread, nature and ability choice, should be enough to write different comments.

    Also agreeing with Heysup about Scarf being a main option on Physical sweeper, and questioning whether WS is worth it on a slow otherwise pure physical set?
  25. Namso

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    Cool stuff.

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