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Renzokuken

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Nachos, Aug 13, 2012.

  1. Nachos

    Nachos Just who is the Coon?
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    Renzokuken



    [​IMG]

    Intro
    I've been using this team for a while now and planned to RMT it after finishing the BW2 OU tourney, as I felt it was something different from the usual Politoed+2 Genies teams you see. Anyway, I’m out of the tourney now due to 2012’s biggest choke, so I felt it was time to show this team. Aside of that, this team has been pretty successful. I originally had the idea of using SubSalac Landorus after using SubSalac Garchomp in the (now dead) DW OU tier to great success, and kinda built the team around it. Eventually, it turned out that Landorus was the weakest member of my team lol. Still, he’s pulled out some wins from hell’s void and I haven’t really found a suitable replacement for him. I considered replacing him with Specs Gothitelle to deal with fighters like Breloom and Conkeldurr, but I felt I needed a good balance of physical and special mons on the team, and because Gothitelle is slow as hell. I really wanna move onto using other teams which is why I’m revealing this, maybe someone will get some use out of it.....

    The name of this team is Renzokuken because I finished Final Fantasy 8 recently and liked it a lot!!

    The Team

    [​IMG]

    Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Roar
    - Slack Off
    - Stealth Rock

    Hippowdon’s job is obvious: gets up sand and Stealth rock. I prefer him to Tyranitar because he takes hits better and has recovery. SubCM Jirachis are also annoying so he deals with them well too. I originally had Stone Edge over Roar but I felt I too prepared for the genies, and went back to Roar which is always a good option. I opted for a specially defensive set to take special hits from the genies, Volcarona, Draco Meteors from strong dragons, as well as random stuff like Ice Beam from Genesect and HP:Ice from Jolteon.

    [​IMG]

    Stoutland (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Return
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower
    - Wild Charge

    Yere Stoutland. I originally got the idea of using this guy from reading the megathread in the OU forum (!) and he hasn’t failed to disappoint. He revenges a lot of the popular stuff in OU like the genies, Keldeo, dragons, Starmie and so on who would otherwise be annoying. His speed is invaluable in a tier as fast paced as OU is now. Superpower is still kinda weak but it’s something that lets me touch Heatran and Ferrothorn at least. Anyway, Stoutland is my revenge killer and gets the job done reliably. Choice Band is needed to pack a punch as Stoutland is pretty weak without it. He also has decent bulk too so he can come in on unSTABbed stuff and force them out.

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split

    A needed answer for the thousands of rain teams that are everywhere in OU today. Rotom-W does a similar job to what it did in BW1, and this is to put pressure on not just rain teams, but all teams with the incredibly annoying Volt Switch. These 4 moves are generally what I like best on my Rotom-W’s. Burning stuff is always nice and Pain Split lets me recover lost HP. Leftovers gives me more survivability and the EVs are intended for Rotom to be as offensive as possible, especially for SubToxic Giscors that don’t invest much in speed. Considering using more HP EVs.

    [​IMG]

    Demelza Ward (Hydreigon) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Superpower
    - Roost

    Water resist #2 and usually what I lead off with if I see a sun team. I got this idea from tab after I saw him use it effectively with the masterful Sandslash. Roost rocks on Hydregion and allows it tank random moves that it couldn’t in BW1, especially because I’m using Life Orb (AKA: Hydro Pump from Rotom-W). I prefer Superpower to Focus Blast 100% because it always OHKOs Tyranitar and because it never misses. It also does a big dent on Blissey/Chansey too, as well as Heatran. Speed EVs let me outspeed anything in the 280 ballpark. This thing’s Draco Meteor is ridiculously powerful and is always a pleasure to spam and do 35% minimum to something. Fire Blast is for coverage. Hydregion rarely ever sweeps, instead he punches holes and gets a KO or 3 before he dies.

    [​IMG]

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunder
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute
    - Psychic

    Whenever offensive rain is popular in the metagame, SubCM Jirachi is always there to plow a bulldozer into its genitals. With rain being so common, I decided to opt for Thunder instead of Thunderbolt. Having a 60% chance to paralyze something is also nice. Seeing as I won’t always have rain up (I’m using a sand team after all......), I decided on Psychic as my third move over Water Pulse. This allows me to hit Thundurus-T harder, and gives me an answer to fighters like Breloom and Conkeldurr. EVs are standard. Jirachi is my primary answer to Tornadus-T. If they have Breloom and Jirachi is dead, then it’s probably gg. Jirachi is one of my sweeper mons and an instrumental part of the team.

    [​IMG]

    Landorus (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Flying]

    I've tried a few things here like Scarf Genesect, SubSalac Landorus but after a suggestion I've gone with Scarf Landorus. Standard moves, with the exception of HP:Flying whihc is 100% needed for Breloom. Landorus helps to revenge kill Keldeo and Terrakion who are problems for this team. Second electric immunity and third ground immunity is nice. Offensive fighting types dick over offensive teams like this, so Landorus is a pretty crucial part of the team.

    Threat List

    • Fighters such as Breloom, Conkeldurr and Terrakion are public enemy #1. You can’t beat everything, but this is a big hole that I’ve been unable to fix. I was thinking of using Gothitelle > Landorus to deal with the former two but Landorus fits so well that I can’t take him off. I can wear them down with EQ from Lando and Jirachi, but fuck Mach Punch lol. Terrakion is another story, but thankfully people aren’t using him too much these days so. . .

    • Hazards could be annoying. A well played stall team by someone good might be deadly.

    • Thundurus-T and Keldeo slightly, mostly the latter if it comes in on Hippo or Hydregion. I haven't had too big problems with it though.

    Conclusion
    At a glance, the team could look like it has problems with annoying Rotom’s/SubToxic Gliscor’s but I’ve never found it to be the case. The fast paced nature of the team means my opponent has little time to move around trying to get up a perfect position with those certain mons. I’d say it does require you to double switch a bit, but if you’ve played Gen 4 at a moderately high level you should have little problems with that. This team is pretty fun to use and I think shows that sand teams can function well in a rain dominated metagame. If I missed something, mention it and I’ll mention it here. Now RMT!
  2. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    At first glance, this team seems like it's nothing more than some random Pokemon thrown together to appease the gimmick gods. And, while that may be partially true, I think it has some real potential as well. However, to make it better, I think the SubSalac Landorus has to go. It doesn't have Sand Veil like Chomp, and this is BW2 for god's sake, priority is absolutely everywhere. Cool idea, but I think you should change it to a Scarf set and get it over with. There's no real purpose it's currently serving, whereas your team really could use a decent revenge killer outside of the fat dog that only functions semi-well in Sand. DDnite's going to be annoying if you don't have a healthy doggy late-game, which is why I suggest this. Also Techniloom. I hate that thing, but it's a threat, and seems to tear through your team with relative ease, especially if Rotom-W and Jirachi have taken a bit of hazards damage (which your team does not have a way of removing, I just noticed - that makes SubSalac Lando even worse lol). Final issue is Keldeo, and oh boy is it an issue. Specs Hydro Pump will 2HKO anything on your team with rocks up, even outside of Rain. The CM set will run through you if Jirachi is down below about 70% when it switches in, as iirc even a CB Wild Charge from the dog doesn't OHKO (and if Rain is up, it doesn't even matter how much Stoutland can do, because it won't get a chance). Sorry if I'm being overly harsh, just trying to emphasize how much a Scarf Lando could help this team out. Anyways, I need to say some nice things now, so I'll start with your Jirachi. Considering how rain-stall-weak this team is without it, I think you made the right choice there. And thank you so much for using Psychic instead of Psyshock, having a special boosting Pokemon lose to a Gliscor never does much for anyone's ego. Your Hydreigon is brilliant, too - my damage calc says a 56 Atk LO Superpower Hydreigon does 62.75% - 73.67% against a max defense Blissey and a modest 46.59% - 54.83% against even the most defensive of Chanseys. That's a really great idea, actually, and I think I'll have to use that sometime. If my calcs are right, you could potentially KO a Blissey/Chansey in Sand if it switches in on a Draco Meteor with rocks up, then eats the follow-up Superpower. That's sexy.

    Anyways, nice team etc., Luvdisc'd. Also...

    (16:47:16) xtraShine: lavos i beat nachos
    (16:47:17) xtraShine: cuz
    (16:47:19) xtraShine: he choked so hard
    (16:47:21) xtraShine: like
    (16:47:24) xtraShine: a person with 40 iq
    (16:47:28) xtraShine: could have won
    (16:47:32) xtraShine: i feel bad

    ...how did that happen? lol
  3. bubbly

    bubbly

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    Ugh another Stoutland team lol. This isn't a bad team at all, although it's fairly standard (compare to Princess Bri's old Stoutland RMT for instance). My biggest problem is that you don't cover Fighting types well at all. Breloom rapes you every which way, Keldeo is also problematic but at least you can revenge that with Stout. Even Terrakion looks scary because it can just spam Close Combat; it has a hard time getting in safely but nothing can avoid a 2HKO. Also, like you mentioned, stall looks really tricky to face if they have an answer to Hydreigon.

    Gothitelle > Landorus would be pretty cool, as you mentioned, although it doesn't trap most of the things Stoutland needs gone - that said it does an okay job weakening Politoed and Ninetales so it's definitely something to try. The simplest change you can go for to cover your threats is some version of Latios / Latias in place of Hydreigon, depending on your personal preference. Personally I'd just run Latias there and then SubSD Terrakion with Salac over Landorus, because it does a better job on most stall teams.

    Basically that's it, hope my suggestions help out. Good luck :)
  4. Nachos

    Nachos Just who is the Coon?
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    @ Lavos: I suppose my fondness for unusual teams and sets comes from twash's influence. This is simply a fun team to use, and has no record of going #1 on the ladder or anything (although don't get me wrong, it's a good team). Anyway, I think you highlighted the biggest problems well. A Scarfed Landorus set would probably look something like EQ/SE/U-Turn/HP:Flying, seeing as Breloom is that much of a threat. As I said in the OP, Keldeo wrecks me on paper but I haven't had too much of a problem with it. I don't think there's really much I can do to handle Specs Pumps really. Like Terrak though, it's not as common as it should be thanks to the genies running around everywhere.

    Input taken, scarflando added. (will edit into the op tomorrow)

    And yeah...............it was a pretty bad choke. I'd show the log but PS doesn't save them.

    @bubbly: Yeah fighting types wreck me bad. If you look at Iconic's recent archived RMT, he has the same problem as well. Fighters this gen are crazy good and are some of the biggest problems for offensive teams to face. And sorry but I'm keeping Hydregion! He's proved too useful too many times to get rid of him.
  5. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude "The Phone-Post King"
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Hey Nachos fantastic offense team here

    I dont really have to much to suggest but for your Jirachi set i can suggest Psychock>Psychic Psychock gives you a good way of beating Calm Mind Keldeo as well has Blissey although Blissey doesnt look like a problem it is always nice to have a Special Sweeper that can beat it. Plus the only thing you miss out from with Psychic is a slightly more damaging move.

    Now about your Fighting Problem Aeiral Ace>Pursuit Can be used on Stoutland to Suprise Breloom and other Fighting tpye but alot of them commonly carry Mach Punch however this option still looks nice if you find you are not using Pursuit much.

    I hope i helped and Luvdisc'd my friend :)

    tl:dr
    Show Hide
    Show Hide


    Jirachi
    .Psychock--->Psychic

    Stoutland
    .Aerial Ace--->Pursuit


    ~Superpowerdude
  6. Shining_Latios

    Shining_Latios

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Excellent team, Nachos. As you stated, Fighting-types are quite annoying. The only suggestion I have for you is possibly trying out Celebi over Rotom-W.

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Life Orb
    EVs: 42 Defense / 252 Special Attack / 216 Speed
    Modest Nature
    Moves:
    - Giga Drain
    - Psychic
    - HP Ice
    - Recover


    Celebi's Grass/Fighting typing does wonders for your team. Like Rotom-W, Celebi gives you a resistance to Water-types and is one of the best counters to Rain teams with it's Grass typing. Celebi also gives you a resistance to one of your weaknesses, Fighting-types, mainly Breloom, which Celebi counters brilliantly. It is able to take the Spore because of Natural Cure and it resists both of Breloom's STABs. Celebi's Psychic not only nails Breloom, but other Fighting-types as well, like Terrakion. The EV Spread was designed to be able to take physical Fightng-type moves while still outspeeding all commonly used Gliscor variants, bar Jolly Acrobatics (still, Adamant is mostly used over it). HP Ice OHKO's Gliscor and is helpful against Dragon-types as well. Giga Drain as an obvious STAB to counter Rain teams, while also providing recovery. Recover heals Celebi's HP from the recoil of Life Orb. If you feel like the Giga Drain recovery is enough, however, you can use U-turn over it as a form of scouting and put pressure on teams like Rotom-W did. In conclusion, Celebi counters Rain teams like Rotom-W did, but unlike Rotom-W, is bulkier and offers you a vital fighting-type resistance and counter to Breloom. Hope I helped man.
  7. Groudon ex

    Groudon ex

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    Incredibly cool team - always nice to see people using Hippowdon and Stoutland!

    You may want to test Acrobatics Gliscor over Landorus - despite the lack of defensive investment, it does handle the Fighting 'mons better. I'm seconding the Celebi suggestion as well.

    Extremely minor change: replace Roar on Hippowdon with Whirlwind, since it learns that now. There's almost 0% chance you'll ever run into a Soundproof 'mon, but ya never know! :toast:

    EDIT: As I've just thought about it, Reflect Latias might not be a bad choice over Rotom-W as well. It has the cool ability to be able to take on both Sun and Rain teams at once, and helps deal with those pesky fighters.
  8. tab

    tab ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ
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    use celebi over rotom to kill loom (open)
    [​IMG]

    :toast:
  9. Nachos

    Nachos Just who is the Coon?
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    @Superpowerdude: I need Psychic to hit stuff like Gliscor hard which Lavos mentioned. Pursuit on Stoutland has been useful for trapping Latios/Starmie on low health. Aerial Ace is a really situational move that is really only for Breloom, so I think Pursuit would have more merit.

    @Shining Latios: I never thought of Celebi, and what you said is good. I've thought it over a bit and decided I'll go for it. I'll probably use a different EV spread though, and maybe have U-turn > HP:Ice. Beating Keldeo is a bonus. Thanks for the suggestion.

    @Groudon ex: Gliscor is a good idea. I'm not as sure about it as I am with Celebi > Rotom as I want to keep my team speedy, but the SubAcro set seems like it could work quite well. Another problem is that I'm losing one of my answers to Tornadus-T, so having a scarfer helps me deal with that better. And yeah haha I'll go with WW > Roar on Hippo from now on.

    @tab: A gif of that character doesn't belong in this thread. If only I'd reached #1 on a ladder :(!

    Edit: After further consideration, replacing Rotom-W with Celebi would leave me open to Skarmory quite badly (my only 'reliable' ways of hitting it are non-100% accurate moves), so changing Rotom-W is not an option. Celebi > Landorus is a possibility though.
  10. gec

    gec i've been crawling through the falling
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    shit team you lose to fighters such as breloom terrakion and conkeldurr and also to hazards which look like they could be annoying to you...


    my suggestion is to use starmie for spin or celebi for cuteness over rotom-w although this team looks like it cant be salvaged
  11. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    Luvdic'ed. I like this team a lot. An importable would be nice. Also, a little nitpick, I would use Fire Fang over Wild Charge, just because Genesect is running everywhere now and they never see that comming (I almost never use Wild Charge with Stout anyways, even if I do predict Skarm because I seriously hate that recoil).
  12. CZ.

    CZ.

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    You've already said how fighting types are amazing vs this team, to add to that, Mamoswine with superpower loves this team and with all the genie forms mamo is seeing a lot of usage. From what i've played atleast

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