Research Group #1 - Zweilous, Torterra, Eelektross

[watashi]

Just got to 1250 without much trouble. Torterra has been great so far in tandem with Swellow. It puts a lot of pressure on Stealth Rock setters; either they set up Rocks and die, meaning Swellow can plow through the opponent's team, or they don't get Rocks up, meaning Swellow can switch in easily and act as a fast pivot.

As for Torterra's offensive prowess, it has exceeded my expectations. Things like 144 Def Amoonguss and Musharna are 2HKO'ed after Rocks by the appropriate move. Most offensive threats are OHKO'ed and take huge amounts of damage even from a resisted hit. Torterra's resistances allows it to switch into things such as non-Ice Punch Golurk and Golem without much trouble and KO them. Once Tangela and friends are removed, Torterra can run through a team without much trouble.

 

[Cherub Agent]

Sooooo going for Zweilous... love Superpower and Aqua Tail

 

[Nyanswag]

Alt: FieryStar

Will use Torterra and Eelektross.

 

[NatGeo]

Hey guys my alt will be nattyyttan and the Pokemon I will be using is the mighty Torterra. I'm interested in its more offensive sets really, because its stats are pretty middling for a defensive Grass-type, unlike say Amoonguss or Tangela, who can do bigger and better things with better defensive typings (quad ice weak T_T). CBTerra seems to me the mightiest set in this metagame, and it can come in on 1/2 of Cinccino's movepool - a plus! From there CB Earthquake wrecks, and Wood Hammer does a lot to anything that doesn't resist it (speaking of which grass / ground is awesome coverage in this meta). Aside from CB being my favorite set, I think there are some other things that could work too, like LO Jolly and Rock Polish (who outspeeds rotom-s)!

 

[Yonko7]

I've been using the choice band set for Torterra with Superpower as the forth move. Superpower is a bit redundant with Earthquake, but its a good catch for those unique ballon guys (Pro-,Basto-) , and for nailing Normals. Also, its a good move where you aren't sure what your opponent is going to do. Wood Hammer draining its health, and a Choiced-Earthquake isn't a good situation, and Stone Edge's accuracy always has me nervous.

Superpower also fits the hit and run style of the CB set. ;3

 

[JacobJinglepocket]

Zweilous Testing

ZweilousTester

I'll be using Zweilous, obviously. We can use the Showdown! server to test, right?

 

[watashi]

ZweilousTester

I'll be using Zweilous, obviously. We can use the Showdown! server to test, right?

You can test the team anywhere you want but you must ladder on the PO server to get in the hall of fame.

 

[Tribute]

So far a CB elektross set with max hp/max attack/4 sdef is working nicely as a scout.

U-turn itself actually hits incoming mushys pretty hard as well as destroying cacturne/ludicolo and the occasional gardevoir/shit-tree

As far as the other 3 i run aqua tail mostly to get golurks who try to get in free on a wild charge, Wild charge because STAB etc etc and super power for probo/bastiodon/miltank/lickilicki and so forth.

At one point i tried flamethrower over superpower for incoming amoonguses (It 2hkos physically defensive amoongus) but I never really got to use it in practice/ I realized i would rather just U-turn out to swanna anyway

 

[DTC]

(posted in the Project NU thread)

quote

Zweilous@Eviolite
Trait:Hustle
EVs: 252 HP, 4 Atk, 252 SpDef
Careful nature (+SpDef, -SpAtk)
~Rest
~Sleep Talk
~Dragon Tail
~Toxic/Protect/Crunch

This is a set I've been using for the NU research week. It faces stiff competition as a bulky Dragon-type from the likes of Dragonair and Shelgon, who have arguably better typing and abilities; and Altaria, who has access to Roost and Heal Bell. Its main advantage over those Pokemon is its secondary Dark-typing, giving it useful resistances to Ghost- and Dark-type attacks, as well as an immunity to Psychic attacks.

Zweilous is meant to be a bulky pivot for teams that are in need of its multitude of resistances; switch into any predicted Electric-, Fire-, Grass-, Water-, Ghost-, Dark-, or Psychic-type attack and proceed to wreak havoc. Dragon Tail to force out anything that dares to set up in front of you, while Resting off any status or damage Zweilous racks up along the way. Toxic is the main option in the fourth slot to wear down any non-Poison or Steel type the opponent switches in, though Protect may be used to scout for the random Fighting or Ice type attack, as well as stall for time. I recommend you have Toxic Spikes down if you decide to go with Protect. Crunch is also an option if you choose to use Zweilous on a more offensive minded team, keeping the likes of Gardevoir from Focus Blasting you all to hell.

The EVs are for maximum special bulk, allowing to wall threats such as Amoongus, Charizard, special Eelektross, and Haunter. Psychic types that lack Focus Blast, such as Musharna and Kadabra, also have a hard time breaking through Zweilous' meaty Special Defense with Hidden Power Fighting. Having entry hazards down is also important, allowing Zweilous to rack up residual damage every time it phazes out a Pokemon.

Golurk pairs well with Zweilous, setting up Stealth Rock while walling any Fighting- or Bug-type attacks thrown the dark dragon's way. Wartortle takes any Ice-type attacks and can Rapid Spin away the opponent's entry hazards. Vileplume and Amoongus can also endure Fighting-type's assaults while healing status with Aromatherapy for the former, or shutting down threats with Spore for the latter.

This is an interesting set. RestTalk isn't a very good combination in 5th gen thanks to the awful sleep mechanics but a few Pokemon can use it well. I've been theorymon'ing a few defensive Zweilous sets lately, but in the middle of theorymon'ing, I come across the same question over and over again: why waste Zweilous' amazing offenses for a defensive set? Yeah, it has a brilliant typing, but when Dragon Tail / Toxic / Thunder Wave have really bad accuracy for extra power which hardly matters on defensive sets, it's kind of a waste.

Rest / Sleep Talk / Outrage / Crunch could be interesting. RestTalk + Outrage is an excellent combination as evident by RestTalk DD Dragonair and Shelgon. However, unlike Zweilous, they can actually boost.

Has anyone else tried some kind of RestTalk Zweilous set to any success? What made it better than regular Zweilous? What made it worse? What niche does it fill?

edit: wtf, status moves have missed before when I've used hustle

 

[Nyktos]

Yeah, it has a brilliant typing, but when Dragon Tail / Toxic / Thunder Wave have really bad accuracy for extra power which hardly matters on defensive sets, it's kind of a waste.

Hustle doesn't lower the accuracy of status moves.

 

[CrashinBoomBang]

Hide

Reached 1250 pretty easily, using only Eelektross out of the three. I'm using a Choice Band set which is really good at getting momentum and can hit most stuff pretty hard thanks to its good base 115 attack. I'll post more about it once I get higher.

 

[tytoandnoob]

I think I'll try this challenge.
Alt: zhthl
Going with Eel.

 

[watashi]

Got to 1337 before a massive tilt (I should'ave listened to you cbb!!!)

Torterra has been doing a lot of work, destroying most Pokemon in the tier. At the moment I am using a Life Orb set with Wood Hammer / Synthesis / Earthquake / Stone Edge with an Adamant nature and offensive spread. It can come in easily on most Rock and Ground types and usually net a kill. I might test out Swords Dance over Synthesis since I haven't been finding many opportunities to use it. With a +2 boost, even the most physically bulky Amoonguss' can be OHKO'ed after Stealth Rock damage, which is very impressive. This allows Torterra to singe-handedly destroy the common Regenerator core of Alomomola and Amoonguss. Tangela is probably the only Pokemon in the tier that I can think of right now who can survive the onslaught of Swords Dance Torterra. Definitely something I'm gonna test sooner or later.

 

[Annoyer]

Got to 1250 a bit ago using Eelektross.

I've been using the specially offensive set with Expert belt and it works great. I tried some gimmicky RestTalk D-tail with hazards but it's not bulky enough. I then saw Omicron's post on E-belt Eelektross and I haven't looked back. It's great at luring certain threats such as Amoonguss and its slow U-turn against fast Volt Switches from Rotom-s/Zebstrika lets it keep momentum. Its coverage is fantastic but it dies too easily for my liking.

 

[CrashinBoomBang]

Okay, finally reached 1325 with Eelektross:

Hide

So far, it has been really cool. Its good bulk and typing allow it to take at least one hit from most attacks, excluding stuff like CB Sawk or CB Emboar. Thunderpunch/Fire Punch/U-turn/Superpower with a Choice Band is the set I use, and it's really good at gaining momentum for my guts abusers Zangoose and Swellow. The only problem I find myself in is that, while Eelektross has good coverage, it generally needs to use a super-effective move to deal a lot of damage, which can be hard when you're choice locked. However, U-turn is by far the most used move and everyone should give it a try; especially on a VoltTurn chain or on a team with Guts abusers to make use of the free turn.

 

[DTC]

Alright, it's time for this Research Groups Pokemon challenges! In this, there will be a few Pokemon challenges that you can try to complete for a few extra points. These "challenges" would be to try and design the best set that fulfills them. You may also disapprove of other people's sets and post your own set that you think is optimal. Each challenge that you "complete" gets you 1 point. The points will be awarded at the end of the Research Group.

Rules:

• You must test the sets that you post out
• You must talk about what the sets do and your experiences with them
• You may not use any slashes

Note: this is a trial run, so there may be a lot of changes in future Research Group's.

• Create a set that utilizes one of or both Reflect and Light Screen.
• Create a set that utilizes Swords Dance
• Create a set using Leech Seed | Restriction: It can't be used on either of the tank sets over Synthesis

• Create a set using 2 or more non attacking moves

• Create a set that utilizes Coil
• Create a set that abuses Thunder Wave

Research Group will last about 5 more days. I've seen a lot of people signing up but not a lot of people discussing. What do you guys think of the Pokemon so far?

 

[Yonko7]

At least from my experience, Torterra can't come in as easily as one would think. Sure he does have an electric immunity an such, but, his weaknesses to ice, flying, bug doesn't make it as durable you'd think.

 

[Annoyer]

Sorry that I sound like such a noob, but can someone tell me how to post an image onto a post? I already have a screenshot saved on my desktop, but how do I post it?

 

[Tribute]

Sorry that I sound like such a noob, but can someone tell me how to post an image onto a post? I already have a screenshot saved on my desktop, but how do I post it?

upload it to imageshack,imgur,tinypic,photobucket, etc

 

[Annoyer]

Just broke into Silver Class with Eelektross. I'm pretty sure I won't be able to break Gold Class so yeah.

Hide

Link to team -> http://pastebin.com/0MxMdZXR

I'm going to start trying the Coil and Thunder Wave sets on Eelektross. Coil looks really interesting but it has a lot of viable moves and EV spreads. Thunder Wave looks kind of meh since I usually use it to wallbreak and give it enough speed to outspeed walls, but I won't know until I try it. The best part about Eelektross is U-turn/Volt Switch because it lures out special walls for its teammates to destroy. He makes a pretty good partner with Probopass for a Volt-Turn core.

 

[DTC]

Because the ladder was reset and not many people are on PO anymore, you now only need 1200 to get to bronze, 1275 to get to silver, and 1350 to get to gold for this Research Group.

 

[Tribute]

Because the ladder was reset and not many people are on PO anymore, you now only need 1200 to get to bronze, 1275 to get to silver, and 1350 to get to gold for this Research Group.

Well in that case

Peaked there and then proceeded to play like dick 3 matches in a row drop back to 1128 and call it a week.

Team Special Victims Unit

BD Wong (Eelektross) (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Wild Charge
- Aqua Tail
- Superpower
- U-turn


Diane Neal (Swanna) (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Rain Dance


Ice-T (Klang) @ Eviolite
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Gear Grind
- Wild Charge
- Substitute
- Shift Gear


March (Gardevoir) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Trace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball


Dick Wolf (Piloswine) (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock


Belzer (Lickilicky) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Wish
- Protect

Yes I'm god awful at making teams.

In any case, Eel was actually really helpful building momentum with U-Turn.

Generally I'd lead with him to scout so at the very least i could U-Turn out to break Golem/probo/etc sturdies so swanna could come in without worrying about taking a stone edge from a 1hp golem or a volt switch from a 1hp probo. In the event they counter lead Piloswine it was a great way to build momentum right off the bat. It also functioned as a great way to check scarfed Sawk(Which if you didn't notice totally roflstomps my team along with its banded variant), it can live one scarfed CC(Not banded though) and proceed to fire back with either a wild charge or U-turn out to swanna so im free to either tank a close combat and kill it or scare it out.

Also I noticed alot of people assume its a coil set or special (Or just underestimate U-Turn from things that aren't scizor?)and leave in Gardeviors/Ludicolos or underestimate its bulk and try to sucker punch it with absol, all of which result in a U-Turn kill.

Its other moves are good as well, i guess

Wild Charge for obligatory stab move that hits birds, even though it can't take a facade swellow, but its great for braviary.

Superpower for normals like Miltank/Licki, but if they have defense EVs it wont OHKO. Also covers things like probopass with sturdy broken and the like.

Aqua tail 99% for Golurks coming in to setup a free sub on Wild Charge and 1% for random fire types.

TL;DR, Having 4 moveslots its cool, but U-Turn is by far the MVP out of all of Eel's moves

 

[watashi]

I've decided to stop laddering because it takes like twenty to thirty minutes to find a battle during the day and I constantly lose because I forget that I was looking for a battle. I didn't even get to test Swords Dance Torterra because I missed and timed out during every battle I looked for today. Nevertheless I peaked at 1337 points before I started to tilt. I've covered most of the things that I wanted to say about Torterra in my previous posts so I won't have much to say.

Torterra is grossly underused right now. From my experiences I can safely say that it 2HKO's almost every single Pokemon in the current metagame. Tangela is no longer as popular which means most teams lack a solid check to Torterra. It has enough bulk to survive most neutral attacks including Cinccino's Tail Slap and even has a chance to survive Zangoose' Facade with no investment in Defense or HP. Overgrow is an amazing ability and gives me a last resort option against very bulky Pokemon; a boosted Wood Hammer does over seventy percent to even the most physically bulky Musharna. Torterra has a great combination of power and bulk which makes it easy to fit on offense and balance teams.

There are many teammates that have great synergy with Torterra. It has many useful resistances that makes it easy to pair up with something like Samurott or Emboar. My team took advantage of Torterra's ability to destroy Rock and Steel types by pairing it up with Drifblim and Swellow. I also included Samurott because Torterra tends to lure out Amoonguss—Samurott's number one counter—and 2HKO it with Earthquake. I also stocked it up with priority since Torterra tends to be picked off by faster Pokemon. However, I did make one pretty big mistake, which was not putting a solid switch in to elemental attackers on the team. This was one of the reasons I couldn't reach Gold Class.

Expanding on what I said above, Torterra tends to have trouble with offensive teams since they tend to carry faster Pokemon that can hit Torterra effectively such as Emboar, Samurott, Braviary, or Ludicolo. It has handy resistances to Rock, Ground, and an immunity to Electric, but it gets destroyed by Fire Blasts, Ice Beams, and takes huge chunks of damage from Surfs. This shouldn't discourage you from using Torterra at all since its weaknesses are easily manageable. Just play to Torterra's strengths and you'll have yourself an extremely bulky and hard hitting monster.

Peak

The Team

Probopass (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power

Absol (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
- Night Slash
- Pursuit

Drifblim (M) @ Flying Gem
Trait: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Acrobatics
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Destiny Bond

Samurott (F) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Megahorn
- Swords Dance

Swellow (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Facade
- Quick Attack

Torterra (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Wood Hammer
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Synthesis

 

[TLCJR4LIFE]

So what we gathered from this Group was that


A: Torterra is a really good offensive mon...which we kind of already knew.

B: Eelektross is one of the best slow U-turners in the tier.

C: Zweilous sucks.

 

[watashi]

A: Torterra is a really good offensive mon...which we kind of already knew.

Even then most of the people were still using the Defensive Tank set, which is a huge waste of Torterra's great offensive potential. Sure, it was a sturdy wall, but as a Grass-type, Tangela and Amoonguss can do it better. It also lacked the ability to check Birds which mean't you had to fit another Rock or Steel type somewhere else on the team that didn't utilize Stealth Rock.