Research Group #3 - Gallade, Kabutops, Arcanine

[kokoloko]

Hello fellow UUers, it's time for the third instalment of the Research Group!

#1 | #2

Keep the following things in mind during every Research Group:

• Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
• Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Like I said before, feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.

Research Group #3

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Gallade | Arcanine | Kabutops​

How useful are these Pokemon in UU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #genvuu as well!

The Research Group Challenge:

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Send me a PM / post here or on IRC with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!

The first stage of the challenge will be very relaxed so theorymon will be allowed as long as its backed up by good reasoning. During the later stage, discussion will be expected to be backed up by hard evidence, such as teams, actual sets, and logs. The winner of the challenge is the person who peaks at the highest rating on the alt they registered (screenshots are cool). If you win, you receive temporary hops on #genvuu, but you may only claim your prize if you actually participated in the discussion!

Current Participants:

Forum Name - Ladder Alt

DestinyUnknown - Forum Name
DFrog - Slice and Dice
FastFlygon - TestFlygon
FlareBlitz - FossilFlare
PsYch071c - Psychot1c
FruitSeller - FruitGlade
SJCrew - French Twist
Omicron - -mofo-
hilarious - pokeisfun
Omfuga216 - Omfuga Kabutops
jamashawalker - GalladeZero
Tocador - Altocador
Classical - ClassyBlade

 

[destinyunknown]

Alt: Forum Name (seriously)
Pokemon: will decide later, probably Kabutops

 

[DFrog]

I'm down
Using Kaputops & Arcanine under the alt - Slice and Dice

 

[666lumberjack]

Alt: TestFlygon
probably going to use Kabutops or Arcanine
methinks Kabutops could be a cool offensive spinner; base 70 speed isn't amazing but it's ok, and STAB Stone Edge/Waterfall should deter opposing ghosts - Golurk won't appreciate Waterfall, Chandelure doesn't like either STAB move and Mismagius is frail enough to fall to a neutral hit. Dusclops could be a problem with Will-o-Wisp though - Flash Fire Arcanine might actually be a cool partner, and definately appreciates the spins. Add Roserade for spikes, maybe, and you have a workable FWG core. In theory, at least.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Awwwww yeah.

Alt: FossilFlare
Using: Kabutops, possibly Gallade. I already know Arcanine rapes.

 

[Stellar]

Finally, a Pokemon I'm interested in. After I get Internet access tonight, I'll try out Gallade.

 

[Ace Emerald]

I love two of these Pokemon and respect the third. Kabutops has performed as an awesome spinner on many teams, Gallade was a great Pokemon on the last research group team, and man Arcanine is cool, though I've personally used him much. I'll edit later with alt and my decision on who to use.

 

[Psychotic]

Yee, Gallade a mothafucking boss.

Alt: Psychot1c

 

[FruitSeller]

Alt: FrutiGlade
I'll be using Gallade at least. I might try the other ones too.

 

[jamashawalker]

Ill be using gallade. The pokemon that was banned last gen for literally decimating an entire playstyle by himself. Either CB or just SD with thunderwave Support. So many options.

Alt Name: Jak3

EDIT: K Ill Enter as GalladeZero

 

[kokoloko]

^ you need a fresh alt to participate. you used that one for the last challenge.

 

[SJCrew]

Name: French Twist

After much deliberation, I decided to use Kabutops. I'll post logs and findings when something cool happens.

 

[666lumberjack]

Hmm, after some testing, I'm not quite as impressed with Kabutops as I thought I would be. Killing spinblockers is pretty cool, but even with some HP evs it didn't take hits too well and Rock/Water isn't really that good defensive typing when Roserade is the dick that it is. Most games it ended up maybe getting rocks or a spin if I was lucky and hitting one or two things with a STAB move. Kabutops is suprsingly weak without a life orb against anything bulky. I don't know if that was the team around it, though, so I'll do more testing. Arcanine was pretty cool, I don't like the SR weak because I'm yet to find a UU spinner I actually like; Kabutops is the closest I've seen but still feels like it would either be not present at all or using a different set if I didn't need rapid spin on it.
I have no idea how I would actually use Gallade but I might try it as well, we'll see.

 

[SJCrew]

I just played a game against what I assume was a stall team. Kabutops got the spin off, but the only thing he could switch in on without dying was Brozong, who killed it after the spin with Earthquake. Roserade switched in on my special wall and got the Spikes up again anyway.

In another game vs an interesting Sand team with no Stoutland, Kabutops actually managed to do some work with +2 and a couple of flinches. It's not much data as to how Kabutops fares against the average team, since most players aren't using Hippopotas/Aron/Registeel/Empoleon as their defensive core. But being able to 2HKO an Empoleon at +2 with Leftovers was a pleasant surprise.

Game 3, I got a Swords Dance up, but Suicune managed to burn Kabutops as I went for Stone Edge. The rest of my team was swept by Suicune.

I've played more games than this, but these are the ones where Kabutops saw use. Most of the time, he sits on the bench and waits for Spikes. I'm beginning to see the repercussions of having a spinner specialist as opposed to an all-purpose Pokemon that can aid a team outside of spinning.

I'm going to try another team with Rapid Spin, then move onto Rain Dance.

 

[Rakan]

Alt: -mofo-

Gallade, Arcanine

 

[pokemonisfun]

My alt will be pokeisfun.
I will be using Arcanine.
Shouldn't this thread be stickied?

 

[666lumberjack]

SJCrew basically summed up my opinion of Kabutops perfectly. It's pretty good at Rapid Spinning IF it can get in, but it's tough to actually switch into anything since anyone with Victini or Darmanitan is going to hold off on their fire move when the see Kabutops and it doesn't really have a whole lot of useful resistances beyond that. It can spin on Snorlax sometimes, but it's still not so great if there are no hazards on your side of the field and versus stall where spinning hazards really matters, they will almost certaintly be running Dusclops or Cofagrius as their spinblocker - both of which beat you. I'd be curious to know what people are actually using to spin since i'm yet to find a Pokemon I actually like as a spinner in UU; it always feels like i'm gimping my team just to run rapid spin...
On a more positive note, I'm thinking aout trying some kind of bulky support Gallade using those cool resists. It's pretty much the only bulky Psychic that isn't Pursuit bait and it has a couple of interesting support options. Not idea how well it will fare, but testing wierd shit is kinda the purpose of this right?

 

[SJCrew]

I think we've done the spinner debate to death by this point, but there really shouldn't be any disagreement at this point to Blastoise being the best Rapid Spinner in UU. Its ability to check our most common 'spinblocker' and ignore the burns of other Ghosts while maintaining some utility as an all-purpose bulky Water-type puts it head and shoulders above the likes of Hitmontop and Claydol, who have immense trouble dealing with spinblockers of any kind.

If you don't want to swallow your pride and use the turtle, you'll have to either rely on Xatu or format your team in a way that doesn't require Rapid Spin (much easier said than done IMO).

 

[Omfuga]

I willl be running a kabutops in the uu tier and see how it works under the alt Omfuga Kabutops

 

[jamashawalker]

After some good day long sessions with gallade I am very impressed with this pokemon. He is very underrated poke who needs to see more usage. I tested a couple of different sets and all were pretty productive. Gallade has a wide movepool and great bulk, which goes a long way. Here is the summary of some sets I tested with gallade.

Bulk Up Gallade:

Gallade (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Steadfast
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Bulk Up
- Substitute

Most of us know how this set functions. Examine Team Preview and find your time to strike. I use shadowsneak specifically for chandelure. Even with +2 shadow sneak isnt doing much damage to anything neutral. Of course Sabeleye stops this set cold as well. So its best to never start setting up nor bringing gallade in if you see sabeleye in team preview. The nicest part about this set is how bulky waters cant break the sub with scald. Giving him more time and chances to set up some more. This set needs to be played more carefully than other sets though.

CB Gallade

Zero (Gallade) (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Steadfast
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Leaf Blade
- Trick

This has been my favorite set by far. Ive never felt this way about a pokemon since staraptor. Just click the appropriate bottun and watch things die or just get totally messed! This set differs completely than CB heracross because of the coverage moves he uses. Ice punch is there for gligar and other bulky flying types. Stone Edge isnt neccessary because gallade can already hit hard enough with just ice punch. Leaf Blade is for bulky waters(slowbro) So Close Combat isnt needed and the defense drop really makes a difference on a bulky pokemon like gallade. Leaf Blade does the same damage out put like Close Combat but without the negative side effects. Knowing Team preview and having SR out on the field is absolutely critical for this gallade to be successful. The coverage moves are just there for easy prediction. If not needed just Close Combat and watch magic happen. I made mine with no Spe EVs cause I used it with paralysis support. And gallade is made to switch into walls, the full HP EVs make it that much scarier and harder to take down. The metagame right now is too fast for gallade to even waist his time trying to outspeed something. I run this set specifically with houndoom and a cleric(togekiss right now). Houndoom to take out ghosts(Chandelure,Sabeleye) and the cleric is necessary cause gallade will be constantly switching into walls all day with this set. Its different than heracross cause heracross loves status, while gallade fears it more. Trick, better coverage moves, and more bulk what you want to go for when asking why should gallade be used over heracross. (Will Edit post later, have to get cut of short)

My bad i edited it earlier but ill post again. My Alt is: GalladeZero

 

[SJCrew]

Kabutops fares better on this new team of mine. It was still difficult to get him in for an opportune time to spin without straight up death foddering him, but if you want to test him out yourself, you can just about replace Blastoise with him and make extra room for Snorlax to counter Chandelure.

In short, Rapid Spin Kabutops fulfills a niche that UU desperately needs (offensive spinning), but poorly. His low speed and crippling weaknesses do not lend him enough opportunities to do his job.

Attempting Rain.

 

[shrang]

I was thinking about a set for Kabutops, which I wanted to try since DPP:

Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Swords Dance
- Rain Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge

You can see what kind of team your opponent has via Team Preview, so you can pick which Dance you want to use. If you opponent is relatively stallish, use SD and break down things, while if they're more offensive, use Rain Dance to become ridiculously fast and attempt to sweep. It's pretty hard to get both, but the point isn't to get both.

 

[GTS]

I recently got done testing Kabutops in the Sand, using a LO Rapid Spin set. It had some success, both with spinning and being a decent offensive threat. But, he was not bulky enough for the team slot, as far as bulky Rock types in Sand go.

A Rain Dance set would probably be very successful. I used that back when Tornadus was in the meta.

I might try out a team using Gallade.

 

[666lumberjack]

I actually like the look of Shrang's set a lot more than any kind of spinner. Sort of reminds me of double dance Terrakion with the ability to either boost attack or speed. I'll definately be trying that one out, since Kabutop's just doesn't have the bulk to spin in UU.

 

[bean1706]

The main problem I've found with Kabutops is that it's too difficult to switch in. Quite a lot of Pokemon can hit it quite hard due to the rock typing meaning that to get a Rapid Spin of you're effectively foddering Kabutops or giving your opponent a chance to set up on it. Plus if you want it to take a few hits, you're going to have to heavily invest in its defenses which takes too much of Kabutops' offensive presence away and even then its not going to be taking many Special hits. All in all Kabutops fails as a Rapid Spinner. Hopefully I'll have some more luck with an offensive set.